Devils Advocate.(Indian affairs)

[Wenatcheejay]

Probaly easier to do so Wenatchee if WE were a WE.  WE the PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.   With EQUAL oppurtunity, EQUAL rights, EQUAL problems EQUAL EQUAL EQUAL.  Folks talk about predjudice, yet by setting yourself up to be different to go by different laws, live a different way, you are in fact creating a predjudice.  If you want to be a nation succeeded from the Union, then cut all ties with this other Union.  No more stimulus checks, no more school funds, no more free college education. etc.   Get your passport and when you cross the line you are now in a foreign country. 

Yes, Back in High School I used to say that "people" have do decide. "Do you want you want "equal rights" or do you want "special rights?" You can't have both.

[luvtohnt]

I'd slip a copy in there mailbox

Buck470, be careful because I beleive that is a Federal crime.

Brandon

[GrainfedMuley]

lovtohnt, I am sure that buck470 was just using a firure of speech!!!!!!!!! But they DO need to know that we are on to them. If any of you know an inurance agent...you can get an address with a plate number....

[jackelope]

but that insurance agent sharing that info would be breaking the law as well.

[GrainfedMuley]

Then, are there any hunters here that are cops?

[norsepeak]

Maybe we could get Tim Eymman (sp) to start an initiative.

[buck470]

Your not going to have anybody stand up in a public forum, and Say here's the info!!

Unless they really miss there buddies in County lockup!

[Alchase]

OK, a couple things here, first there is a big difference between stressing a deer in the winter range and "STRESSING". The first one is when a deer sees a hunter or photographer, gets spooked and runs away. I do not see a difference between a photographer spooking and a hunter spooking, deer do not know the difference with the exception of the one that gets shot?
I believe this is a ton less stressfull on the deer or elk then running from a cat trying to eat them.

Second, the whole premise of the hunting rights the tribe claim is false on so many levels. Through out history there have been many indigenous people living here. Why do we make an exception "just before white man" to who has special privileges or not? Did they not also migrate at one time?
Then concider "most" of the elk in this state were brought here by
philanthropist hunters (non-tribal) so to claim traditional hunting privileges because of a hieroglyph found on a rock is like saying the Bloods own all of central Seattle (actually I think they do, lol) because of the graffiti on the side of the safeway. The only difference is the safeway will get painted over. We have no idea what the painter of that rock had in mind. Who is to say that he was not the "tagger of the tribe, or some traveller that saw an elk in Montana and was showing his tribe members what big deer they have, lol. My point is we do not know intent.
Another consideration, is the blatantly false game and fish reporting by the "self policing tribal members".
So back to Bones question, the difference would be the aggregate total of all of these, then add to that the killing of only big bulls in a winter feeding area "for sustenance" that my tax dollars and hunting fees pay to sustain these herds through the winter.
The tribes could take stewardship of the land (that they claim) to a level that we never could. With the amount of money coming in to the casinos there is no reason why they could not have the best hunting herds in the nation if they chose too do so.
They do not, they choose to decimate they own land, then hunt winter feeding areas for big bulls that our hard earned money raises, protects, and feeds just so they can be slaughtered with no regret or remorse.
My Grandfather who was 100% Cherokee use to get so PO-ed at what we saw the Potlatch do, would shake his head and say:
"Just because you can,.......does not mean you should, that is the difference a conscience makes"

[muleyguy]

 "For those not being able to follow my thought process, Govenors tags/raffle tags versus tribal hunting"

the difference is that raffle tags and governors tags are strictly controlled;  tribal hunting is not

[Antlershed]

Then, are there any hunters here that are cops?

I'm pretty sure cops can't give out that info to the public either. I have access to all that info, but I would never dare give it out. I'm not a cop or an insurance agent either, btw.   

[Ricochet]

Times have changed and the tribal "rights" need to change also. Geronimo didn't shoot a 300 Ultra-Mag.
I agree with Pope on the photography side of "stress", my winter range shots are nearly always from a vehicle. Once the critter starts walking away, the game is over, I'm not a fan of "butt shots".  There's also a big difference between a photographer and a guy with a camera.  Its the guy trying to get wildlife shots with too short a lens, or even his camera-phone, that puts undue stress on wildlife.

[highhunter]

I love reading everyone's posts on subjects related to tribal hunting/fishing rights. I am a Archaeological field technition and work closely with the tribes. My Dad lives to steelhead and salmon fish and was in the court room testifing during the "Fish Wars" and the subsequent Boldt Decision. I gave an hour long presentation on how the Boldt decision has fueled animosity in WA b/w treaty-tribes and non-treaty people and it was interesting and heated. The class was a graduate level Cultural Resource Management seminar. What is sad is that within the realm of academia (at least from my personal experience) is that only one perspective is given and most people are so misinformed on this complex and multifaceted issue that the truth is never revealed. I don't want to say how I truly feel (it would haunt me down the road I'm sure, given my job) and even if I did I don't now how to even put it in words. Until something drastically changes, the Nez Pierce will shoot radio collared bighorns in the Blues for "ceremonial purposes" and non-treaty fishermen will poach endangered wild steelhead rationalizing it by stating "the Indians are gill-netting the lower river so who cares"

[JoshT]

OK... I'll weigh in... and I'll try to keep away from the Tribal side of it. I think I've said my peace on that...

I can't speak for deer/elk on this topic... but, I've shot enough coyotes in mixed company to know that it's looked upon with a bit of distain. I remember jumping out of the truck and hammering a coyote one day... only to realize there was a bus full of Japanese tourists that were taking pictures and admiring the dog as it was mousing along. They were pissed...

I'm thinking there's a lot more folks (meaning non-hunters) who enjoy watching the wildlife than we ofter consider. Those folks tollerate hunting, and I'm sure some even understand the need for herd management. But, I'm thinking they don't want to see anyone (white, red, green, etc.) pull-up in a Bronco and clobber some monster buck that's just trying to make it through another 10 degree day.... Governer's tag or not.

I'll never be ashamed of my love of hunting... ever. But, I also understand that things like this whole Colockum elk fiasco are never good... indian or white-man. In situations this... perception is reality... like it or not. I've decided that I'll try to be more considerate of those I share the woods with... except for tweakers... they get the bottom of my boots.

Dog Down!  ~Josh

[GrainfedMuley]

  First...Alchase, your grandfather was a very wise man. Second...finding out where these people live was not my intent for personal gain. Nor, I hope anybody elses. My intent was to turn them into the authoraties and hopefully, legally try to deal with it. I know it sounds like beating a dead horse, but maybe the increase of complaints might get something going...I am just as frustated as evryone else.

[buck470]

I'd never confront said Violaters as I may have led you to believe in my earlier post, but if you can put a name to the problem, It would go farther than "some Indian".

Even if we only went as far as "red toyota lic# XYZ123" still puts a name (pin point's) the problem. Then were not just a bunch of pissed off whitey's pickin on the poor lil Indian's.