Ethical to shoot past 400 yards at elk w/AR15 based rifle? Yes/No

[BULLBLASTER]

Wow!  That's all I got on this thread.

[BULLBLASTER]

I think it might be time to put a AR together just to watch karl shoot something with it !

Oh it's in process! I'm hoping to talk to hammer about options.  that won't break the bank either. 

[JDHasty]

When I used to hunt black bears from tree stands I did deliberately shoot them in the shoulder.  I shot a 45/70 Marlin w/350 Hornaday RN and that did not mess up much meat. 

I did not always shoot for the shoulder, but one day I came up on a black bear at twenty yards and shot it straight through the heart with that 45/70 and the bear took off, ran thirty yards down a trail, made a hard right hand turn and went fifty yards down another trail loosing blood by the bucket.  Then I lost the trail and stood there wondering WTHeck.  I was standing by a five-foot diameter deadfall and when I looked on the other side the blood was there and the bear's butt was standing 40 yards away, in the middle of a trail not moving a muscle.  The bear had made a hard right hand turn and gone through a hole under the tree that you would have a hard time getting a basket ball through and died with leaves and crap pushed up in front of it's nose.  It was the darndest thing I had seen and as I came around that bear with a long piece of a tree branch held in my left hand against the fore end of my gun and poked him in the eye it hit me that that bear could have killed me before it died if it had come up the trail I was on.  Then I pushed it over and started working on it.  After that I started shooting them through a shoulder and into the chest.  It worked for me.  I had the bear down where I could go get a wheel barrel and didn't have to work my butt off and get cut to ribbons getting him back out of the back berries like my friends frequently had to do.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I could take a photo of the rug that lies in my basement.  Does that count?  It's not a particularly large black bear, but the hide was perfect, and that rug made from it fits well into a medium size room.  Does that count? 

[BULLBLASTER]

When I used to hunt black bears from tree stands I did deliberately shoot them in the shoulder.  I shot a 45/70 Marlin w/350 Hornaday RN and that did not mess up much meat. 

I did not always shoot for the shoulder, but one day I came up on a black bear at twenty yards and shot it straight through the heart with that 45/70 and the bear took off, ran thirty yards down a trail, made a hard right hand turn and went fifty yards down another trail loosing blood by the bucket.  Then I lost the trail and stood there wondering WTHeck.  I was standing by a five-foot diameter deadfall and when I looked on the other side the blood was there and the bear's butt was standing 40 yards away, in the middle of a trail not moving a muscle.  The bear had made a hard right hand turn and gone through a hole under the tree that you would have a hard time getting a basket ball through and died with leaves and crap pushed up in front of it's nose.  It was the darndest thing I had seen and as I came around that bear with a long piece of a tree branch held in my left hand against the fore end of my gun and poked him in the eye it hit me that that bear could have killed me before it died if it had come up the trail I was on.  Then I pushed it over and started working on it.  After that I started shooting them through a shoulder and into the chest.  It worked for me.  I had the bear down where I could go get a wheel barrel and didn't have to work my butt off and get cut to ribbons getting him back out of the back berries like my friends frequently had to do.

Pics or it didn't happen.

I could take a photo of the rug that lies in my basement.  Does that count?  It's not a particularly large black bear, but the hide was perfect, and that rug made from it fits well into a medium size room.  Does that count?

I'd say it counts as proof as much as hammers pics count as proof. 

[emac]

How about at mule deer at ranges closing on 500 yards? 

Notice I say AR15 based rifle and in this I explicitly want to not include AR10 based rifles that handle 308 Winchester based cartridges in this discussion. 

AR15 based rifles handle cartridges that are based on native cartridge brass that ranges in size UP to 7.62X39 or 30 Remington. 

What say you?

I didnt read anything about novice Hunter's in your original post. That came in later when the thread didn't lean the way you would have liked it to.

Along with the wind, rest, etc, etc, etc..

Let me just state that I don't think you are doing your cause of advocating for the AR15 as a viable platform by not qualifying what you are advocating.  I am not adverse to expert shots/experienced hunters shooting an effective cartridge at deer or elk that they have confidence they can kill AND they also recognize that wind, rest etc play a part in complicating making that perfect shot not only possible, but HIGHLY likely.  Giving the impression that an average sportsman is equipped to make long range kills on big game animals with an AR15 based cartridge is not only possible, but likely, is not something I would suggest is responsible to advocate on behalf of.

Ok I have been reading this thread and wanted to comment on a few quotes but was going wait til the end but I can't anymore. I hope this comment isn't already posted after this.

It seems that your mission in to attack people that hunt big game with a ar-15. It is not about the gun/bullet necessarily. It's about the person behind the gun and how much practice they put into it.

You keep saying that someone gave information to a novice that they shot a muley at 495 yards with a 6.5 grendal. To me that doesn't mean if I go buy a 6.5 I am going to be able to make a 495 yard shot with it with out practice. To me that is him giving the person info on what the 6.5 is capable of doing.

What if he told the person to get a bolt action 338 lapua and said he killed a deer at 495 yards would you still create this thread saying he was giving bad info to a novice.

And when anybody comments back to you on this you keep bringing up rock chucks and prairie dogs. Come on man the target size is greatly different from a deer or elk.

I myself have a few ar's in multiple calibers. I know my max yardage on all of them. So I plan accordingly. I myself was a novice when I started building my first one, but I didn't run out and start shooting animals at 400 yards but once I  got familiar with my 6.8 I don't have a problem shooting 400 yards and I killed a yote a 419 with it. But I am not going to go out and shoot at stuff with my 6.8 pistol at 400 yards because I did with my rifle.

So it not the gun, caliber, or bullet it all falls on who pulls the trigger and if they are capable of making the shoot

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Karl Blanchard]

Wow!  That's all I got on this thread.

did you get parts ordered for your 6.5 yet?

[DaveMonti]

Clearly, as I watch quality shows (advertisements) like Long Range Pursuit, all I have to do is buy the fancy scope they are using and I have purchased the skills necessary to kill any animal at well over 700 yards.  Just point and shoot.  I'm sold!  Here's my 401K!  Give me the scope! 

[BULLBLASTER]

Wow!  That's all I got on this thread.

did you get parts ordered for your 6.5 yet?

I managed to dig up some cash! We're getting there! 

[actionshooter]

I have used an AR15 a time or for hunting big game and was going to offer up my opinion, because these are nothing but opinions.  Then I read through the entire thread and decided that I don't want to play the original posters games....... have fun guys. 

Just read this thread and am still happy I decided to stay out of this one......hahaha

Oh come on, no need to be scared. 

 I didn't see this thread going anywhere, but what do I know....its 12 pages 

[JimmyHoffa]

I have used an AR15 a time or for hunting big game and was going to offer up my opinion, because these are nothing but opinions.  Then I read through the entire thread and decided that I don't want to play the original posters games....... have fun guys. 

Just read this thread and am still happy I decided to stay out of this one......hahaha

Oh come on, no need to be scared. 

 I didn't see this thread going anywhere, but what do I know....its 12 pages 

Pretty long ranging thread.  Some are hitting the mark and some are throwing potshots.

[Karl Blanchard]

In the words of JonathanS,  "LOUD NOISES!!!!!!"




 

[BULLBLASTER]

In the words of JonathanS,  "LOUD NOISES!!!!!!"




 

Where is he? Usually he's on top of these threads!! 

[Karl Blanchard]

In the words of JonathanS,  "LOUD NOISES!!!!!!"




 

Where is he? Usually he's on top of these threads!!

  I don't know man, I'm a bit concerned

[DaveMonti]

Nothing is absolute.  Everything is a probability.  One story of knocking down an elk at 600 yards with a .22 Hornet doesn't make it the best choice for going after that quarry at that yardage.  There are an awful lot of "single instance" stories here, as though one data point can clearly define a probability.  There are so many factors (variables) that there is not an absolute answer. 

If you can think in terms of probabilities (or "shades of grey"), it's probably always wise to do your best to increase the probabilities of a clean, quick kill.  If that is "ethical", I'm all for it. 

[BULLBLASTER]

Since hammer has only killed a deer once...   I'm pretty certain that's not true.