Training question

[asmith]

I get to finally pick up my 6 month old GSP from the trainer on Wednesday.  She has been with Dan at Dunfur kennels for her first stint of training, one month.  Before this, I did the basic training which included sit.  Last week, when I went in to do some work with the trainer and my dog, I was told you should never teach a pointer to sit and they were working on getting her away from that.  So, is that true?  Ive never heard of that before.

[brush hunter]

I don't know one way or the other I don't have bird dogs. I do know a couple of guys that do and they taught their dogs to sit. didn't affect their performance in the field.

[huntingfool7]

I'd be looking for another trainer. 

[jetjockey]

It is absolutely true.  The reason you don't teach a pointing dog to sit, at least at a young age, is it can translate to the dog sitting on point.  I don't know any pointing  dog trainers who teach their pointing dogs to sit.

[hunter105]

I have a Wired Hair Pointing Griffon and taught him to sit as a pup.  I have never had him sit when on point.  I have had him sit on the trail about 2/3 of the way through a Chukar hunt.

[aaronoto]

Has anyone actually seen a dog sit on point though?  Going against what the internet and books said I trained my WPG to sit when she was very young.  Now that we are transitioning to bird work and whoa training I haven't seen the slightest inclination of her wanting to sit during either.

[jetjockey]

Yep.  Several times.  In trials, it always leads to the same result.  The dog is picked up.  There is no reason to teach a pointing dog to sit.  Sitting is something retrievers do.  You teach pointing dogs to "whoa".

[wildweeds]

Jet is Givin yall the real scoop. Dogs taught to sit are more apt to resort to sitting when asked to do something out of their comfort zone. Sit is taught as a puppy,puppies get into everthing,teaching them to sit is a way of keeping them out of undesirable things.generally people lose their cool and get rough when an accident happens so the dog gets thumped on a bit with physical or verbal methods. So further on down the line when the real pressure from training comes along the dog executes the move that means safety. And that is to sit. I've seen dogs sit,lay down,blink,flag and bolt all of those maneuvers are from a rough training style around game. Skip the sit command if your going to take the dog to show for ribbions.

[huntnfmly]

Jet is Givin yall the real scoop. Dogs taught to sit are more apt to resort to sitting when asked to do something out of their comfort zone. Sit is taught as a puppy,puppies get into everthing,teaching them to sit is a way of keeping them out of undesirable things.generally people lose their cool and get rough when an accident happens so the dog gets thumped on a bit with physical or verbal methods. So further on down the line when the real pressure from training comes along the dog executes the move that means safety. And that is to sit. I've seen dogs sit,lay down,blink,flag and bolt all of those maneuvers are from a rough training style around game. Skip the sit command if your going to take the dog to show for ribbions.

[asmith]

Thanks for the input guys.  This is not going to be a show or trial dog, just an all around family and bird dog.  I have just never heard of not allowing a pointer to sit before, and I grew up with shorthairs, all of which where taught to sit as puppies and never once did it happen in the field without command.  I think if you can teach a dog whoa and sit, then the difference will translate in the field as well.  But again, im no professional dog trainer.

[jetjockey]

I'm guessing you never had dogs that were completly trained either.  Breaking a dog puts pressure on them like Wild says.  That pressure can lead to some interesting behavior.   Why risk it? 

[addicted2hunting]

It can lead to sitting on point, but if you do any water cowling with the dog it will need to learn to sit and lay in ground blinds, if you want the full versatility out of your versatile breed.

[asmith]

I'm guessing you never had dogs that were completly trained either.  Breaking a dog puts pressure on them like Wild says.  That pressure can lead to some interesting behavior.   Why risk it?

No, all our dogs where always family dogs first, bird dogs second.  This will be my first dog that gets professional training.

It can lead to sitting on point, but if you do any water cowling with the dog it will need to learn to sit and lay in ground blinds, if you want the full versatility out of your versatile breed.

Yes, she will be used for waterfowling as well.

[jetjockey]

My dogs are family dogs first, hunting dogs second, and trial dogs third, even though they trial more than they are hunted.  In the pointing dog world, not teaching a dog to sit is normal.  There really is no reason to teach sit, unless the dog is going to spend a lot of time in a blind, and then, wait till the dog is older and make sure there is no nagative transfer of training.  What I mean by that is never tell the dog to sit in the field, and only use the command when in a blind.    Make sure the dog is broke before you train sit.  I think you will quickly find its a useless command for a pointing dog once they have learned whoa.

[Happy Gilmore]

The lady who owns the top obedience GSP in the country and also recently became an FC sits until told otherwise. It's just a result of the training style developed for years and people don't change their routine when it works. If you want a dog to sit and point you can have a dog sit and point. Retriever people do it daily if you believe retrievers point