Zinke: Too Many People Enter Federal Lands for Free

[bigtex]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

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. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

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[/quote]
Logging on USFS has increased the past 10 years compared to the 15 years before it.

[olyguy79]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

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[/quote]
Sure they would. USFS wouldn't be a self-sustaining agency just on logging. WA DNR isn't a self-sustaining agency either.

[mossy8352]

Want a real eye opener go to Bryce Canyon Lodge and find out how many visitors stay at the lodge in a 12 month period time x dollars and how many paying cars visit every day times xs dollars it is amazing. Yes some are on passes but my guess is poor management of the funds and someone is making a killing on the funds generated but not used for maintenance. It is called political theft just like they have done with social security to date!

[olyguy79]

Want a real eye opener go to Bryce Canyon Lodge and find out how many visitors stay at the lodge in a 12 month period time x dollars and how many paying cars visit every day times xs dollars it is amazing. Yes some are on passes but my guess is poor management of the funds and someone is making a killing on the funds generated but not used for maintenance. It is called political theft just like they have done with social security to date!

The Lodge is a concessionaire within the park. The private company gets to keep a percentage of the profits, with some of it going back to the NPS. Flash back 50 years when all the lodges were ran by govt employees and the govt kept all the profits.

But I agree the NPS does need to look at where they're money is going.

Also doesn't help every year Congress designates new parks to staff and run. 

[mossy8352]

You are correct my point was take the amount of paying lodge resident in 12 months time x dollars (whatever the government keeps) and it is in the millions times every park in the country. The income will exceed the maintenance and costs every time! Follow the money!!!!!

[olyguy79]

You are correct my point was take the amount of paying lodge resident in 12 months time x dollars (whatever the government keeps) and it is in the millions times every park in the country. The income will exceed the maintenance and costs every time! Follow the money!!!!!

Not according to Zinke:

"He did acknowledge that park fees alone won't significantly address the park system's $11.7 billion maintenance backlog."

[bearpaw]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sure they would. USFS wouldn't be a self-sustaining agency just on logging. WA DNR isn't a self-sustaining agency either.
[/quote]

USFS has become a worthless agency that only knows how to close roads and further restrict use to more and more of Americans. When revenue was created from logging and before all the enviros started controlling the agency they used to maintain roads and trails for the public benefit. Now they just close roads rather than maintain or repair them. Many trails are plugged by downfall with no maintenance. Every year there is less and less access to use forests for most Americans.

[bearpaw]

If Zinke's goal is to get the maintenance done in parks then either congress has to fund it or the gates have to collect more dollars. We all like freebies, but maybe some of the freebies should be sharing in the expenses too. 

[mossy8352]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sure they would. USFS wouldn't be a self-sustaining agency just on logging. WA DNR isn't a self-sustaining agency either.

USFS has become a worthless agency that only knows how to close roads and further restrict use to more and more of Americans. When revenue was created from logging and before all the enviros started controlling the agency they used to maintain roads and trails for the public benefit. Now they just close roads rather than maintain or repair them. Many trails are plugged by downfall with no maintenance. Every year there is less and less access to use forests for most Americans.
[/quote]
1199% spot on!

[olyguy79]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sure they would. USFS wouldn't be a self-sustaining agency just on logging. WA DNR isn't a self-sustaining agency either.

USFS has become a worthless agency that only knows how to close roads and further restrict use to more and more of Americans. When revenue was created from logging and before all the enviros started controlling the agency they used to maintain roads and trails for the public benefit. Now they just close roads rather than maintain or repair them. Many trails are plugged by downfall with no maintenance. Every year there is less and less access to use forests for most Americans.
[/quote]
GW Bush signed the order for every National Forest has to create a "Travel Management Plan" specifically closing or keeping roads open. Why succeeding presidents haven't repealed it who knows.

[bearpaw]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sure they would. USFS wouldn't be a self-sustaining agency just on logging. WA DNR isn't a self-sustaining agency either.

USFS has become a worthless agency that only knows how to close roads and further restrict use to more and more of Americans. When revenue was created from logging and before all the enviros started controlling the agency they used to maintain roads and trails for the public benefit. Now they just close roads rather than maintain or repair them. Many trails are plugged by downfall with no maintenance. Every year there is less and less access to use forests for most Americans.

GW Bush signed the order for every National Forest has to create a "Travel Management Plan" specifically closing or keeping roads open. Why succeeding presidents haven't repealed it who knows.
[/quote]

I sure hope we get a new USFS Director who will reorganze the USFS!

[olyguy79]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Sure they would. USFS wouldn't be a self-sustaining agency just on logging. WA DNR isn't a self-sustaining agency either.

USFS has become a worthless agency that only knows how to close roads and further restrict use to more and more of Americans. When revenue was created from logging and before all the enviros started controlling the agency they used to maintain roads and trails for the public benefit. Now they just close roads rather than maintain or repair them. Many trails are plugged by downfall with no maintenance. Every year there is less and less access to use forests for most Americans.

GW Bush signed the order for every National Forest has to create a "Travel Management Plan" specifically closing or keeping roads open. Why succeeding presidents haven't repealed it who knows.

I sure hope we get a new USFS Director who will reorganze the USFS!
[/quote]
With Sonny Perdue at the helm of Agriculture who knows. He seems to care more about the agriculture side of the dept. then the forestry side.

Even with that, a president would have to repeal the TMP rules in order for road closures to stop happening.

[pianoman9701]

I don't think this is a single solution problem. Logging is possible but we're talking about National Parks, which for the most part, are supposed to be untouched, natural wilderness areas. So, you're not going to completely solve the problem by clear cutting Yellowstone. I agree with his assessment that more people should pay, that a car with a disabled person and 4 other abled people should fork up 4 admissions or at least require 4 passes. And although I agree that active duty and their families should visit free, this should not apply to the Air Force. 

[Special T]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Logging on USFS has increased the past 10 years compared to the 15 years before it.
[/quote]25 years ago we were at the tail end of the spotted owl fiasco where virtually all USFS land was shut down. They sure weren't paying the way when that was in full swing.

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[bigtex]

I don't think this is a single solution problem. Logging is possible but we're talking about National Parks, which for the most part, are supposed to be untouched, natural wilderness areas. So, you're not going to completely solve the problem by clear cutting Yellowstone. I agree with his assessment that more people should pay, that a car with a disabled person and 4 other abled people should fork up 4 admissions or at least require 4 passes. And although I agree that active duty and their families should visit free, this should not apply to the Air Force. 

As far as I know most fees are per car. Rainier is $25 per car. What would you say the per person price be? Visiting public lands will sure get expensive.