It begins again, more wolf cattle kills 2018

[yorketransport]

epic strawman, but to bring it back to some semblance of relevancy.....

the government outlawed all your traps and poison and your right to defend your store from rampaging mice that are destroying all your product.  The giant mice are protected so they can come and go as they please and you can't do anything about it.  In complaining to the government, they said you can leave all your lights on in the store all night long since the mice only come out at night and by leaving all your lights on that'll trick them into staying in hiding but you get to pay the power bill for all those bright lights on 24/7      Ya right, you know better than that huh, your disgusted by the government lunacy and you know that mice still come out even when the lights are on so it's nonsense to incur all those higher cost electric bills, so you leave them off. 

The mice breed and multiply and start getting into other business's, due to the increased pressure the government comes in and kills a couple mice but leave 100's of others in your neighbors stores, they come right back next season. 

Now all the mice huggers are mad at you for not doing your part in using non lethal control measures like leaving bright flood lights on 24/7, and installing mouse beepers and hanging ribbons and motion controlled confetti guns, they bocoytt your store, they threaten your families lives, you can't open shop anywhere, the value of your shop due to the mice infestation has plummeted, the government forecloses your store due to diseases and ruined walls.     

And all of that would be my own fault for failing to know when to get out. If my business fails because I didn't know when to cut my losses, that's my fault. That's where the capitalism argument comes in. My business, my decision to continue on knowing that the climate has shifted against me.

You go on food stamps and sell all your guns and toys, miserable you wish you could move but your stuck where you are.   

So you blame the government for the failure of your business, then go to them and ask for a handout? That mentality is exactly the reason why the business failed in the first place. Nobody is ever stuck anywhere, you are where you are because of choices you made.

Yorke, may I call you that ? Your point is valid but running cattle is totally different than, say a store where you can up and move to a more profitable location on a different street corner.

I agree, you really can't just pick up and move a ranch; that's why I'd look to leave the industry entirely. I'm not in the cattle/livestock industry but I do hear the same concerns fairly often from people who are. It seems like land access and predator control are the constant battle. I doubt those issues are going to go away anytime soon and I'd be willing to bet that it's just going to get worse. That's the point where I'd start looking into other options so I could get out while there's still a chance to at least break even after liquidating the business. I'd rather get out now and make a small profit than wait until the end and go broke trying to save a lost cause.

[yorketransport]

It's a way of life, to say it's capitalism isn't capturing what these ranches mean to these old families. 
They'll go years not turning a profit then a couple stellar years and they'll finally be able to get some badly needed new equipment that's be dilapidated for way too long. 

They'll endure the ups and downs, they always have, but slowly they'll get weeded down and disappear as their kids move off or they sell out and a bunch houses go in, but hey at least all them new home owners won't be running cattle eh?

That's the problem though, it's being treated as a way of life instead of a business.

[KFhunter]

Well if you ask me our food production in the US has gone a little too capitalistic if you ask me, big agriculture squeezing out all the family farms, heck the US and it's citizens don't even own a lot of our big agriculture having been bought out by China and other foreigners. 

Land that the US will never get back, foreigners may will keep it in perpetuity.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2017/07/03/foreign-investment-u-s-farmland-rise-iowa-law/448506001/


It's a good thing ranchers don't give up easily, selling out at the first sniff of profitability winds that have shifted unfavorably for a bit, had they done so we'd not have steaks on our BBQ's.

[buglebrush]

See, for many of us it's precisely the loss of our "way of life" that is so concerning.  I'm so sick of you Wolf apologists telling us that or way of life doesn't matter.  Someday there'll be no more OTC hunting. You'll be sorry, and it'll be entirely your fault for being so arrogant. 

[idahohuntr]

All good responses yorketransport.

A lot of these guys just do not understand pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and making it on your own.  It's all about big government helping and giving handouts.  Times change.  I get that it's unfortunate...I'd love to live in a fantasy nostalgic world where everything was a simpler time...laws, regulations, government policies, societal views...they all change.  Keep up or get left behind.

It's the same for many other industries...construction, auto mechanics, timber, fishing, ag, retail and on and on.  Ranching is no different...which is back to my original point...kudos to this rancher for finding new pastures where he can make a living.  We can't have the government intervening to support everyone because times changed...even if its the governments policies and laws (ESA, wolf protection etc.) that are the change.  For those who can't stand it...I guess there are a number of socialist countries you could probably relocate to where government will be there to feed and clothe you.

[KFhunter]

god almighty that's a lot of hogwash 


Ranchers want government to get out the way, not come "help" them, haven't you paid attention to anything?  At least I have an open dialog, you just push an agenda and lie to further it.

[Mudman]

Yup get out of farm/ranching.  Let em build more houses or bird sanctuary on the land..  Its just a business.  The next guy can just demo 300 houses and start ranching again.  Meanwhile we can all just starve to death or buy birdsnest soup from china.  Its not like the Gov comes to your farm and demands you build $ :bash:100000 retention ponds or tell ya to get your cattle off half your land because it gets wet and muddy endangering a frog.  its not like ya live in the middle of your work and its not that your on call 24hr 7 day week.  Nope not lifestyle, just a $ business.

[yorketransport]

god almighty that's a lot of hogwash 


Ranchers want government to get out the way, not come "help" them, haven't you paid attention to anything?  At least I have an open dialog, you just push an agenda and lie to further it.

What agenda is that? What lies have been told? Everyone has an agenda and it's foolish to ignore that. The anti wolf crowd pushes one side while the pro wolf crowd pushes the other.

I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding wolves. Killing off an entire species is an absurd thought. Letting wolves go unchecked is an equally absurd notion. I'm all for allowing regulated wolf hunting to control populations in targeted areas. That doesn't mean killing all of them though. If they weren't a native species I'd say kill every single one of them but that's not the case.

See, for many of us it's precisely the loss of our "way of life" that is so concerning.  I'm so sick of you Wolf apologists telling us that or way of life doesn't matter.   

Don't take it personally, but why should the rest of the state be concerned with the preservation of your way of life? Your way of life is important to you because it's your way of life. What makes your way of life more important than some other person's way of life? Maybe your way of life is having a negative impact on them. How do we decide who's opinion matters the most? Is it the loudest voice in the room or is it the higher percentage of voices?

You'll be sorry, and it'll be entirely your fault for being so arrogant. 

My company actually has an official response to comments like that: I'm sorry, it's my fault. I'll try harder next time. 

[KFhunter]

I'm all for allowing regulated wolf hunting to control populations in targeted areas. That doesn't mean killing all of them though.

We are of like mind here, look at that, a commonality.  We need wolves managed, we need to trap and shoot them - basically we need them to avoid people - and you do that by educating them.  You can insert cougar and coyotes into the same category, and to some extent bear. 



We will never be able to "kill them all" even if we wanted too, that's not even a discussion, it's just an empty statement tossed out by wolf huggers to get people who are on the fence to side with them. 

Don't take it personally, but why should the rest of the state be concerned with the preservation of your way of life?

because farmers and ranchers feed you and I.  When things in the US go all venezuela you'll be thankful someone can produce some food, it should be looked at as national security issue.

[idahohuntr]

god almighty that's a lot of hogwash 


Ranchers want government to get out the way, not come "help" them, haven't you paid attention to anything?  At least I have an open dialog, you just push an agenda and lie to further it.

Yea...I have a secret agenda I'm pushing on a hunting forum that I further with lies...it's my path to world domination.     

I'll let you in on a big secret...my agenda is capitalism and the free market.  It is entirely your prerogative to support socialism and communism.  There is no need for you to hide and project lies onto others because you believe in such a form of government that I'm not in favor of...to each their own. 

[KFhunter]

You can attempt to troll me all you want it won't work because I don't care about you or your words, I used too when you had more cheerleaders who hadn't yet been affected personally by wolves but now that hunter opportunity is being directly impacted by wolves I can sit back and relax.  Instead of me howling at the westside about what wolves are doing they're learning it for themselves, now the wolves are doing all the howling. 

I'm kicking back with a cerveza.  My work be done.


cheers   

[Mudman]

Newsflash the Grey Wolf is NOT native.  Timber wolf was.  Yes our Elect grid is of Nat security as well as many other things.  Food n water for sure??  Farms and ranches most surely should be.  Foolish to not respect or protect our food supply like we now do our water.

[yorketransport]

Newsflash the Grey Wolf is NOT native.  Timber wolf was.  Yes our Elect grid is of Nat security as well as many other things.  Food n water for sure??  Farms and ranches most surely should be.  Foolish to not respect or protect our food supply like we now do our water.

It’s been nearly 18 years since I studied taxonomy in zoology, but I’m pretty confident that timber wolves are still a subspecies of the grey wolf. Since there are only 2 widely recognized species of wolves in N America (red and grey), grey wolves (also called timber wolves) are in fact native to WA state. Full disclosure, I went and verified that info with one of my old text books to be sure it was accurate 

It also seems a bit dramatic to imply that wolves in Washington will lead to a catastrophic disruption in the food supply making this a national security issue. Unless the wolves are actually North Korean spies sent to disrupt the food supply and weaken the US population, making it easier to invade us.......

[KFhunter]

Did you actually pass that class?  because you've countered yourself..

I’m pretty confident that timber wolves are still a subspecies of the grey wolf.

correct, so should they grab a bunch of arctic wolves and bring em down because they too are still a sub species of the grey wolf.  USFW service talked about bringing in the larger Mackenzie valley wolves (still a subspecies of "grey wolf") and were excited that the bigger wolf than native timber wolves would take on the bison which are the true culprits of stream erosion in YNP.   

Well the elk population plummeted and the bison population shot up.  No one likes to talk about that. 

[Bango skank]

Newsflash the Grey Wolf is NOT native.  Timber wolf was.  Yes our Elect grid is of Nat security as well as many other things.  Food n water for sure??  Farms and ranches most surely should be.  Foolish to not respect or protect our food supply like we now do our water.

It’s been nearly 18 years since I studied taxonomy in zoology, but I’m pretty confident that timber wolves are still a subspecies of the grey wolf. Since there are only 2 widely recognized species of wolves in N America (red and grey), grey wolves (also called timber wolves) are in fact native to WA state. Full disclosure, I went and verified that info with one of my old text books to be sure it was accurate 

It also seems a bit dramatic to imply that wolves in Washington will lead to a catastrophic disruption in the food supply making this a national security issue. Unless the wolves are actually North Korean spies sent to disrupt the food supply and weaken the US population, making it easier to invade us.......

You took a general zoology class a couple decades ago, and youre typing from your keyboard 300+ miles from the wolf problem.  Maybe you should just shut your mouth.