How is the twisp Winthrop area fairing so far 2018?

[Boss .300 winmag]

The herd is trashed at this point, I go over the HWY 20 pass  3-4 times a month when open, haven’t seen one deer on it this year yet. In the past I would have seen 40-50 while traveling over it. It’s simply sad to see what the predators can do in short time being unchecked.🤬

[timberfaller]

If you believe what the WDFW tells you,  "the herds in great shape" knock yourself out.  Having lived there most of my adult life, the "herd" is at it lowest point(numbers) I've ever seen.

But then I am no "biologist" and don't have a college degree to claim as my "smarts"!

IMHO three things attributed to their demise. One, the 2015 Buck massacre, Two, the preceding winter kill(fires destroyed food sources)and Three, increase population of Bears(love to eat fawns).

Add to that the WDFW's belief that the Methow herd is their cash cow for mule deer hunting in WA.   Only explanation as to why common sense never enters their thought process's as to management practices!!  

[bigmacc]

The herd is trashed at this point, I go over the HWY 20 pass  3-4 times a month when open, haven’t seen one deer on it this year yet. In the past I would have seen 40-50 while traveling over it. It’s simply sad to see what the predators can do in short time being unchecked.🤬

 

Heck 25-30 years ago it was nothing to count 100-150 deer between Early winters and Mazama if you were traveling through there at daybreak or in the early evenings and you would see em any time of the year, they were locals, but even they are all but gone. I will never forget going through that area in 1985:, it was the week before the season opened and we were heading over to get our base camp set up, it was just daylight and a bachelor herd of 13 BIG bucks crossed the road in front of us. We were able to spot them ahead and slow down to let them single file across the road not more than 10 yards in front of us,, the smallest buck was a nice 3 by 3 and the largest was a big nontypical that had at least 8 or 9 on one side, the rest were everything in between. We didn't have fancy picture taking phones then, just the old cheap instamatics that were packed away. I tell you, you just don't see that anymore over there, at least on a consistent bases like it was. I remember another time sitting at the kitchen table with a packer friend of mine looking out his picture window that looked over the 1,100 acre ranch that he was managing at the time. It was the second week of hunting season(2weeks back then), myself and 2 of my partners sat there with him sipping on a bottle of hooch and BS,n about hunting and such when 4 nice 4 points and about 16 does skylined themselves on a ridge about 150yard away, my friend asked "you boys want those bucks? they are pretty good animals", we said no thanks, we had just got there and were looking forward to our week ahead of us, the weather had moved in about 3 days prior and there was no need for being hasty. We headed up to our camp and  we ended up going 5 for 5 that year with the smallest buck being a 4 by 4 with a 26 inch spread and the biggest being a big 6 by 5. Should have seen the look on our friends face when we stopped by his place on our way home, he said he would save those 4 points for a rainy day, he ended up finding the carcases of 3 of those bucks eventually, all dieing of natural causes, back then "rainy days' never came to the point you had to shoot pet deer or deer that lived on private stuff, there were deer litterely all over the hills. That year in August when we went over to scout we seen over 600 deer with 130 of those being bucks, those deer were counted from the valley floor up to about 5000 feet, those deer we were scouting were local deer folks, they weren't even the migrating herd! The year was 1976 in the Methow, and its a shame what they have let happen to that herd....

[BigBuckBandit]

I went and spent about a week in the mountains of okanogan for rifle last year. It was pretty disappointing to see to say the least. The numbers just aren’t there anymore.

Not to mention the wolfs are moving into the area and existing packs are growing. A research student was just forced to climb 30’ into a tree to avoid a pack of aggressive wolves north of Winthrop.

https://komonews.com/news/local/student-rescued-after-climbing-tree-to-escape-wolves-near-winthrop

[Colville]

Why doesnt someone local, use huntwa to organize a weekly bear hunt. Schedule by week, by drainage and see if you can get 30 hunters a week over Aug/sept and put an emphasis hunt on.  Go ouside wdfw and just rally guys into hunting the best berry fields and wipe out some bears.  Wolves and lions not being comparably tagetable.  Id bet a great camp and community could be had with real impact.

[flemdogg]

Mule deer numbers are down in the entire west. Each state has a couple of units with herds doing well. On the flip side of things, Elk and predators are doing extremely well. Sadly, we will not see the legendary mule deer herds of decades ago in our life time. I do believe that at some point, game management will develop policy to right the ship once again, but like I said, not in the near future. Another thing to consider, is most people shoot the first legal deer they see. I understand the need to fill the freezer but when it comes to bucks, you cant complain about herd numbers and quality when you are killing the youngest good genetic 3 point you see.

However, with all that being said, you absolutely need to get out and look for yourself. I recently moved here from California earlier in the year, and have scouted several different muley units on multiple different trips. Trust me, there are deer where people say there aren't. Quantity, and quality maybe down, but there are definitly still wall hangers deep in.

[cbond3318]

Why doesnt someone local, use huntwa to organize a weekly bear hunt. Schedule by week, by drainage and see if you can get 30 hunters a week over Aug/sept and put an emphasis hunt on.  Go ouside wdfw and just rally guys into hunting the best berry fields and wipe out some bears.  Wolves and lions not being comparably tagetable.  Id bet a great camp and community could be had with real impact.

I’ve often thought about this same thing. It really could be effective with as many members and eyes in the field. @wolfbait has been the only guy I’ve seen that has shared info here similar to what you’re describing. I think it was last year he was posting areas where recent bears had been spotted during season. If we got organized it could actually be an impactful management tool! I may not ever hunt  Washington again but come season I will share info on a couple I left on the mountain last year that will be ripe for taking this year.

[horsehunter509]

Agreed. It's a shadow of what it once was and it's sad to see the decline. When the seasons ran later years ago there were deer everywhere! It's not just the seasons that have changed though, the numbers aren't anywhere near what they used to be. Hopefully someday the herd will bounce back but I am not holding my breath. Too many snowmobiles pushing the deer around when they are trying to survive the winter, too many predators, too many people shed hunting to early in the spring when the deer are at their weakest, it goes on and on.

What areas do you see snowmobiles affecting the deer? Just curious as someone that lives in the valley and snowmobiles a lot.

[boneaddict]

I hadn't noticed snowmobiles effecting the methow deer herd.   Entiat maybe    Contrary to popular belief, I found cross country skiing to bother or push the deer more.  They generally moved aside if around a sled, where as they push with skiers.   
You are right though....alot of factors from poor management, predators, fires, weather, bad luck and a house going up on every sagebrush hill with two ankle biters in the yard.   They have a rough go of it.

[Hockey21]

You're right Bone. I have family there and spend a lot of time up there and I haven't seen many snowmobiles over there, if any. Houses are popping up everywhere and the predators are booming.

[bigmacc]

I hadn't noticed snowmobiles effecting the methow deer herd.   Entiat maybe    Contrary to popular belief, I found cross country skiing to bother or push the deer more.  They generally moved aside if around a sled, where as they push with skiers.   
You are right though....alot of factors from poor management, predators, fires, weather, bad luck and a house going up on every sagebrush hill with two ankle biters in the yard.   They have a rough go of it.

Absolutely bone, the skiers I think put a lot of stress on those deer during a very vulnerable time and as you stated, throw in the houses going in everywhere on the winter range along with a growing predator issue then mix in a good dose of Mother Nature just being downright nasty from time to time and you have a recipe for a dwindling herd, and when you have folks that are mismanaging them, then the recipe for a dwindling herd turns into what we have now. I said before and I know you have seen the same bone, but I remember as a youngster sitting in a certain spot in the north part of the valley with a view that let you look down all the way to Twisp, pretty much the only lights you would see twinkling were the lights in the towns of Winthrop and Twisp(and those were not many) and a few and far between flickers on the hills that skirted the valley running down both sides, literally maybe 20 -30, now its in the hundreds, like I said thats a lot of prime winter range that has been inhabited, fenced, developed etc.

[bigmacc]

I will add that the opening of the North Cascade pass back in the 70,s certainly didn't help this herd out either, in fact (IMO) that was the beginning of the end for this deer herd, it brought attention to this valley, heck pre-pass most people had no idea where Winthrop, Twisp or the Methow valley even was, I remember a lot of folks thought it was out of state. Basically the valley was ranching and orchards and 90 percent of the valleys inhabitants were born and raised there and they all pretty much knew each other. Winthrop was just a little town at the end of the road with a gas station, post office one little general store and a couple other small businesses. The town was unheard of by most of the population of this state. My family were good friends with some folks over there  the Sullivans(Sullivans Pond) was one of my great grandparents good friends over there, there were a few others also dating back to 1917. The stories that were told around campfires by my dad, my grandparents and my great grandparents of hunting the Methow were priceless, now its up to me, my brother and a few other family members to pass those on to our grandchildren, you really of had to experience the hunting of the Methow when in was in its prime(I've been at it since the late 1950,s) or hear first hand those stories I heard around those campfires when I was a kid to truly appreciate the devastation of this particular mule deer herd, I know I sound like a broken record but it really is a crying shame, a real crying shame

[bigmacc]

If you believe what the WDFW tells you,  "the herds in great shape" knock yourself out.  Having lived there most of my adult life, the "herd" is at it lowest point(numbers) I've ever seen.

But then I am no "biologist" and don't have a college degree to claim as my "smarts"!

IMHO three things attributed to their demise. One, the 2015 Buck massacre, Two, the preceding winter kill(fires destroyed food sources)and Three, increase population of Bears(love to eat fawns).

Add to that the WDFW's belief that the Methow herd is their cash cow for mule deer hunting in WA.   Only explanation as to why common sense never enters their thought process's as to management practices!!

 

As far as believing what the WDFW tells us about the Methow herd, your right, they keep saying the herd is in great shape, they really have no clue! I stopped at the checkpoint one year and got myself into a lengthy conversation with some WDFW folks. They respected my family history and actually asked a lot of questions about migration routes, staging areas etc. that I knew of. The conversation went on for almost 2 hours and by the end of it I walked away very disappointed and with zero confidence in these folks. That herd in its prime was 35,000 to 40,000 animals, the largest mule deer herd in the state bar none, it is less than half of that now days and these folks are proud of that. Whats sad is the head count continues to drop, soon it will be a third of what it once was because nothing is being addressed about the downward spiral, in there minds all is well and that is the part that had me disappointed when walking away from the conversation, a more than 60 percent dip of this herd over the last 50 years apparently does not raise an eyebrow in this agency. I walked away feeling there are other things above this herd as far as priorities, this is NOT your fathers or grandfathers mule deer herd anymore, they are way down the pecking order and at one time they were on a pedestal, they were job #1, but as I,ve said many times, they also were the "Department of Game" back then.. ......

[lastmk8]

I think we just found the bucks,... they are on another link/page, go to the facebook link comment...

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,230084.msg3066490/topicseen.html#new

[mburrows]

Sad to hear. I never witnessed the good ole days but I know a few guys that killed their first bucks over there, was an annual family hunt and none of them even consider it anymore.

The human encroachment definitely has to be a huge factor like it is all throughout the central cascades.