No 2023 Chelan Goat????

[Romulus1297]

They move up and down

[jackelope]

They definitely move down towards the lake on Chelan in the winter. Sometimes they’ll move into timber where the snow isn’t as deep. They don’t migrate like mule deer and elk do to winter range, but they will do what they can to get into “less” snow.

[grade-creek-rd]

Thanks Rom for that tid-bit of info! My dad was part of the group that helped with the release...he was president of the Lake Chelan Sportmans Assoc for over 20 years...I remember this project!

Grade

[MerriamMagician]

Sad to see another opportunity taken away. I agree with most comments on this thread that we are slowly losing more and more hunts every year. It wasn't that long ago they took away the blazed ridge goat hunt from us. It seems that many of us have already forgotten about that unit. There is still a huge population of goats in the unit and absolutely no scientific reason why it cannot support multiple tags on an annual basis. All part of their master plan...

[Jpmiller]

Sad to see another opportunity taken away. I agree with most comments on this thread that we are slowly losing more and more hunts every year. It wasn't that long ago they took away the blazed ridge goat hunt from us. It seems that many of us have already forgotten about that unit. There is still a huge population of goats in the unit and absolutely no scientific reason why it cannot support multiple tags on an annual basis. All part of their master plan...

I go up and visit those goats every year and curse losing the tag. Never did understand why they closed it.

[millerwheeler]

Couple years ago I got to help another member on his hunt  late in the season and was no easy hunt , one of the greatest hunting memories I have . Sad to see that hunt gone after so many years of trying . It’s not a hunt for anyone who thinks it’s easy , prayed on a cliff edge with 3 grown men as we watched a crazy landslide happen right in front of us  it was no joke but so amazing.

[teanawayslayer]

Couple years ago I got to help another member on his hunt  late in the season and was no easy hunt , one of the greatest hunting memories I have . Sad to see that hunt gone after so many years of trying . It’s not a hunt for anyone who thinks it’s easy , prayed on a cliff edge with 3 grown men as we watched a crazy landslide happen right in front of us  it was no joke but so amazing.

going going gone

[mburrows]

such a bummer, amazing they dont even address this with their customer base that funds nearly their entire budget and just continually removing opportunity.

[fishngamereaper]

Sad to see another opportunity taken away. I agree with most comments on this thread that we are slowly losing more and more hunts every year. It wasn't that long ago they took away the blazed ridge goat hunt from us. It seems that many of us have already forgotten about that unit. There is still a huge population of goats in the unit and absolutely no scientific reason why it cannot support multiple tags on an annual basis. All part of their master plan...

 
From my experience the goat population is actually better on blazed than some of the other open units. There is also a very healthy and stable population between I90 and hwy 2 that could support a couple tags. ( Not including anything around Stewart or the Enchantments)
Goat management in Washington makes no sense to me..

[GOcougsHunter]

Sad to see another opportunity taken away. I agree with most comments on this thread that we are slowly losing more and more hunts every year. It wasn't that long ago they took away the blazed ridge goat hunt from us. It seems that many of us have already forgotten about that unit. There is still a huge population of goats in the unit and absolutely no scientific reason why it cannot support multiple tags on an annual basis. All part of their master plan...

 
From my experience the goat population is actually better on blazed than some of the other open units. There is also a very healthy and stable population between I90 and hwy 2 that could support a couple tags. ( Not including anything around Stewart or the Enchantments)
Goat management in Washington makes no sense to me..

Far too conservative in season setting.  I do trust the bios, but, c'mon...

[jstone]

Do we actually have Bio’s??

[millerwheeler]

We do , but there arms are tied and it’s truelly sad the direction our state is goin people say it all the time but it really is *censored*ty

[Bob33]

Another era.

[shanevg]

Another era.

Another era largely responsible for our crappy mountain goat numbers today.  You can't manage mountain goats the same way you manage deer/elk/etc which was a mistake our state made for decades before trying to correct the issue.

Our issue today is that literally every single goat population in our state is decreasing and I don't think WDFW has any idea why.  My personal opinion - climate change (specifically warmer weather pushing them to spend more time in timber) is leading to higher than normal predation.  Of course higher than normal predation is drastically exacerbated by extremely high predator numbers (cougars, wolves, coyotes all having negative impact.)  It seems to me there may be some disease issue at play.  I've been seeing very low kid recruitment in recent years (as in last 3-4 years relative to the 2x decades before that I spent watching goats.)

Unfortunately goats receive a low priority in research funding with our state so I honestly don't think WDFW has any real idea how bad (or not) things actually are other than low helicopter counts in recent years (which has been negatively impacted by extremely warm summers pushing goats out of traditional visible habitat.)  Also, the relocation from Olympic National Park to the Cascades was all planned 4-5 years ago before the established herds (think Goat Rocks, Baker Wilderness, Boulder River, Naches, etc.) started really taking a downward trend.  As such those 300+ goats were relocated to smaller, more isolated herds in the cascades in hopes of those herds starting to grow.  In hindsight, it should have been a goal to bolster the established herds and help promote stronger genetic diversity in those herds. 

(One other side note, recent research done by WWU has shown extremely low genetic diversity in almost all goat herds in our state.  Goats are not crossing major highways (I90 and I2 being the big contributors, but even smaller highways like Hwy 20 being a contributor as well.)  Additionally goats from individual herds are showing relatively little cross breeding with other herds (Baker/Boulder River herds, Goat Rocks/Naches herds/etc.  Even Canadian goats like Cathedral Park north of Pasayten and Pasayten goats are not travelling back and forth.)  Historic data suggests young males relatively frequently moved from one herd to another helping to bolster genetic diversity and that does not seem to be happening now.  I don't know how this plays into declining goat numbers or what specifically has changed recently as opposed to the past in this regard but it's certainly something worth noting as genetic diversity has been shown to be integral to long term herd health in mountain goats.  See Fest-Bianchet research for more info on that.  It's pretty fascinating stuff.)

And that just brings up the entire issue with the ONP relocation.  Eliminating that herd is terrible for our goats in WA state.  The ONP herd was the only herd doing well in our entire state and relocating half of that herd was a great idea.  But maintaining the remaining half as a "nursery herd" or sorts to help augment the other goats in our state would have been a far better solution than complete eradication.   

I think there's one thing everyone can agree on which is the desire to see healthy herds here in our state.  Hopefully the downward trends of our established herds can serve as a wake up call to WDFW bios to get a better grasp on what's going on so we can continue to promote healthy and robust goat populations throughout the suitable terrain in WA state.   

[trophyhunt]

Another era.

Another era largely responsible for our crappy mountain goat numbers today.  You can't manage mountain goats the same way you manage deer/elk/etc which was a mistake our state made for decades before trying to correct the issue.

Our issue today is that literally every single goat population in our state is decreasing and I don't think WDFW has any idea why.  My personal opinion - climate change (specifically warmer weather pushing them to spend more time in timber) is leading to higher than normal predation.  Of course higher than normal predation is drastically exacerbated by extremely high predator numbers (cougars, wolves, coyotes all having negative impact.)  It seems to me there may be some disease issue at play.  I've been seeing very low kid recruitment in recent years (as in last 3-4 years relative to the 2x decades before that I spent watching goats.)

Unfortunately goats receive a low priority in research funding with our state so I honestly don't think WDFW has any real idea how bad (or not) things actually are other than low helicopter counts in recent years (which has been negatively impacted by extremely warm summers pushing goats out of traditional visible habitat.)  Also, the relocation from Olympic National Park to the Cascades was all planned 4-5 years ago before the established herds (think Goat Rocks, Baker Wilderness, Boulder River, Naches, etc.) started really taking a downward trend.  As such those 300+ goats were relocated to smaller, more isolated herds in the cascades in hopes of those herds starting to grow.  In hindsight, it should have been a goal to bolster the established herds and help promote stronger genetic diversity in those herds. 

(One other side note, recent research done by WWU has shown extremely low genetic diversity in almost all goat herds in our state.  Goats are not crossing major highways (I90 and I2 being the big contributors, but even smaller highways like Hwy 20 being a contributor as well.)  Additionally goats from individual herds are showing relatively little cross breeding with other herds (Baker/Boulder River herds, Goat Rocks/Naches herds/etc.  Even Canadian goats like Cathedral Park north of Pasayten and Pasayten goats are not travelling back and forth.)  Historic data suggests young males relatively frequently moved from one herd to another helping to bolster genetic diversity and that does not seem to be happening now.  I don't know how this plays into declining goat numbers or what specifically has changed recently as opposed to the past in this regard but it's certainly something worth noting as genetic diversity has been shown to be integral to long term herd health in mountain goats.  See Fest-Bianchet research for more info on that.  It's pretty fascinating stuff.)

And that just brings up the entire issue with the ONP relocation.  Eliminating that herd is terrible for our goats in WA state.  The ONP herd was the only herd doing well in our entire state and relocating half of that herd was a great idea.  But maintaining the remaining half as a "nursery herd" or sorts to help augment the other goats in our state would have been a far better solution than complete eradication.   

I think there's one thing everyone can agree on which is the desire to see healthy herds here in our state.  Hopefully the downward trends of our established herds can serve as a wake up call to WDFW bios to get a better grasp on what's going on so we can continue to promote healthy and robust goat populations throughout the suitable terrain in WA state.

Excellent over view Shane, thank you.  I wish you were the head Goat guy at wdfw, if they had one.