Free: Contests & Raffles.
Commented. I'm guessing since this is being called a "timber damage permit" that my spring bear points won't count towards it?
Can the timber companies "charge" for hunting these damaging bears? It's like a homeowner complaining to the WDFW about a mice infestation, the state offering the homeowner a free cat, then charging the cat for the privilege of killing mice.
Quote from: fireweed on August 22, 2023, 01:16:44 PMCan the timber companies "charge" for hunting these damaging bears? It's like a homeowner complaining to the WDFW about a mice infestation, the state offering the homeowner a free cat, then charging the cat for the privilege of killing mice.No. If you read more of it, it states they cannot charge for access or sell the permit.
Quote from: high_hunter on August 22, 2023, 01:45:06 PMQuote from: fireweed on August 22, 2023, 01:16:44 PMCan the timber companies "charge" for hunting these damaging bears? It's like a homeowner complaining to the WDFW about a mice infestation, the state offering the homeowner a free cat, then charging the cat for the privilege of killing mice.No. If you read more of it, it states they cannot charge for access or sell the permit. I've read it page 4 6 C it states that they can deny a permitt if they don't allow public access. It does not however define what public access means. If it does please tell me where me where.
Page 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.
Quote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.
Quote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.WDFW can and will determine how the carcass is to be treated. (b) Based upon WDFW's evaluation of the permit application materials and local environmental conditions, the department may establishpermit-specific conditions in individual permits including, but notlimited to:(iii) Requirements for final disposition of the black bear carcass, as a whole or any black bear parts;(iv) The number of black bears that can be removed under the permit; and(v) Procedures for reporting of any removals, including submission of biological samples and reporting documents.
Quote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.Please rethink your post and consider deleting. Big game waste is criminal as it should be.
Quote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 03:26:57 PMQuote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.Please rethink your post and consider deleting. Big game waste is criminal as it should be. This is a depredation permit, same as all other depredation hunts with the exception that the 'designated hunters' are allowed to keep the bear if they want to tag it. Normally you are required to leave the animals to rot with these types of permits.
Quote from: ducks4days on August 22, 2023, 03:46:15 PMQuote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 03:26:57 PMQuote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.Please rethink your post and consider deleting. Big game waste is criminal as it should be. This is a depredation permit, same as all other depredation hunts with the exception that the 'designated hunters' are allowed to keep the bear if they want to tag it. Normally you are required to leave the animals to rot with these types of permits.Where are you getting information on depredation hunt? This is absolutely incorrect information and is a representation of why we continue to lose ground. At a point in history I am sure this happened, I can actually recall some of the permits in the 80s and 90s. I would even say it's not out of the realm of possibly that a carcass is discarded but it's not the norm. Can I ask how many depredation hunts for any species either of you have been a part of since the last court decision limited the designee and tightened the conditions?
Depredation permits always required the meat to be donated, hide/skull, and gall bladder to be turned over. I'm not sure why they would all of the sudden allow animals to be wasted.It's evident that folks are ignorant of what actually goes on. I suggest you guys give WDFW a call and get a grasp of the process before spouting off.
Quote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 06:21:49 PMQuote from: ducks4days on August 22, 2023, 03:46:15 PMQuote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 03:26:57 PMQuote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.Please rethink your post and consider deleting. Big game waste is criminal as it should be. This is a depredation permit, same as all other depredation hunts with the exception that the 'designated hunters' are allowed to keep the bear if they want to tag it. Normally you are required to leave the animals to rot with these types of permits.Where are you getting information on depredation hunt? This is absolutely incorrect information and is a representation of why we continue to lose ground. At a point in history I am sure this happened, I can actually recall some of the permits in the 80s and 90s. I would even say it's not out of the realm of possibly that a carcass is discarded but it's not the norm. Can I ask how many depredation hunts for any species either of you have been a part of since the last court decision limited the designee and tightened the conditions?It's common knowledge bro.You tell us what happens to every cougar removal and any animal the department kills that is a predator.I suppose they fry up coyotes like fried chicken.What the heck are we talking about.Where do you think they go?Don't have to go on a hunt,go look in the county pit.That where your truth is. Another thing our commission wants to end all predator hunting.But you believe they are giving our spring bear back through these permits. There is a reason and I'm trying to tell ya why.
Quote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 06:38:35 PMQuote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 06:21:49 PMQuote from: ducks4days on August 22, 2023, 03:46:15 PMQuote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 03:26:57 PMQuote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.Please rethink your post and consider deleting. Big game waste is criminal as it should be. This is a depredation permit, same as all other depredation hunts with the exception that the 'designated hunters' are allowed to keep the bear if they want to tag it. Normally you are required to leave the animals to rot with these types of permits.Where are you getting information on depredation hunt? This is absolutely incorrect information and is a representation of why we continue to lose ground. At a point in history I am sure this happened, I can actually recall some of the permits in the 80s and 90s. I would even say it's not out of the realm of possibly that a carcass is discarded but it's not the norm. Can I ask how many depredation hunts for any species either of you have been a part of since the last court decision limited the designee and tightened the conditions?It's common knowledge bro.You tell us what happens to every cougar removal and any animal the department kills that is a predator.I suppose they fry up coyotes like fried chicken.What the heck are we talking about.Where do you think they go?Don't have to go on a hunt,go look in the county pit.That where your truth is. Another thing our commission wants to end all predator hunting.But you believe they are giving our spring bear back through these permits. There is a reason and I'm trying to tell ya why.There is a difference between depredation harvests by the WDFW and other depredation hunts. I believe you are referring to the fact that the WDFW killed more cats in depredation than in harvest by hunters like in district 1. Those cats were put in a hole. I am not savy as to the permit requirements for timber damage, which is the topic. I think we would all be smarter if some one provided that information.On a side note TBar knows plenty and I dont think you would come up on a winning side of an argument with him if he had the patience to educate you with citations. Unfortunatly he does not, we all could learn a lot from that discussion. I think what he is trying to impress upon people is that the Animal Rights crowd, and certainly the Commission pays attention to comments here an uses ignorant statements against sportsmen.
No amount of hunters would make a meaningful difference boot hunting on these permits.If a company did give it a try I'd imagine they'd want a resume of sorts that shows a person actually knows how to hunt bear, and are an honest person that is going to treat the permit and property with respect etc. It's not, and would never be just wide open to allowing any Joe Blow to operate under a permit in the company's name without a thorough vetting process.The industry suffers mllions in damages annually. Few units on the west side actually had a spring bear hunt. Damage was controlled, or at least mitigated in part historically with effective means - hounds. Many timber owners didn't pursue depredation, and instead fed though the spring months. Probably an ESG thing when investment groups started buying timberlands. Boot hunting is a virtual waste of time on a depredation permit with such tiny hunt area. Damaged areas are generally 10-25 year old reprod that you can't see 10 feet in.As a forester, the current iteration of damage permits are a joke in terms of actually getting problem animals removed. A traditional spring bear hunt is also a joke for damage control. A spring bear hunt would be fine to try and help with overall population control, but wouldn't do much for damage reduction. Depredation permits are not a recreation hunt and should not be confused as such. The most effective methods of stopping the damage as soon as possible should be allowed, but WDFW continually tightens the screws on permits to the point that they are even more restrictive than standard recreation hunts.
Quote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 08:30:09 PMQuote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 06:38:35 PMQuote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 06:21:49 PMQuote from: ducks4days on August 22, 2023, 03:46:15 PMQuote from: Tbar on August 22, 2023, 03:26:57 PMQuote from: hunter399 on August 22, 2023, 02:36:37 PMQuote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 02:20:31 PMPage 4 section 5 C states that the permitt holder/Hunter must have a bear tag. I can only assume that this is further proof of instituting a damage tag to hunters. Combine that with the public access portion and it sounds pretty good.It also implies that since it requires a tag one person cannot kill more bears than they have tags for, so it incitivizes opening the hunting to more people. It does however give them control since the person has to be named by the landowner. This May change the way spring bear looked where the more local or active hunter has a better chance to increase harvest of trouble bears.The way I read it.You can kill more bears than you have tag.Basically if you wanna keep the bear for hide or consumption then you would be required to use a bear tag.Otherwise kill as many as you have permits for a leave them to rot.Please rethink your post and consider deleting. Big game waste is criminal as it should be. This is a depredation permit, same as all other depredation hunts with the exception that the 'designated hunters' are allowed to keep the bear if they want to tag it. Normally you are required to leave the animals to rot with these types of permits.Where are you getting information on depredation hunt? This is absolutely incorrect information and is a representation of why we continue to lose ground. At a point in history I am sure this happened, I can actually recall some of the permits in the 80s and 90s. I would even say it's not out of the realm of possibly that a carcass is discarded but it's not the norm. Can I ask how many depredation hunts for any species either of you have been a part of since the last court decision limited the designee and tightened the conditions?It's common knowledge bro.You tell us what happens to every cougar removal and any animal the department kills that is a predator.I suppose they fry up coyotes like fried chicken.What the heck are we talking about.Where do you think they go?Don't have to go on a hunt,go look in the county pit.That where your truth is. Another thing our commission wants to end all predator hunting.But you believe they are giving our spring bear back through these permits. There is a reason and I'm trying to tell ya why.There is a difference between depredation harvests by the WDFW and other depredation hunts. I believe you are referring to the fact that the WDFW killed more cats in depredation than in harvest by hunters like in district 1. Those cats were put in a hole. I am not savy as to the permit requirements for timber damage, which is the topic. I think we would all be smarter if some one provided that information.On a side note TBar knows plenty and I dont think you would come up on a winning side of an argument with him if he had the patience to educate you with citations. Unfortunatly he does not, we all could learn a lot from that discussion. I think what he is trying to impress upon people is that the Animal Rights crowd, and certainly the Commission pays attention to comments here an uses ignorant statements against sportsmen. So I'm ignorant for wanting spring bear season back.With a fair draw,point system,and game laws that will ensure every bear is tagged,and not wasted.Ok ,whatever you guys say.If you support this hunt,it will always separate "recreational" and damage hunt of spring black bear.It's like the final nail in the coffin for a traditional spring bear hunt.Is what it is.If you believe I'm hurting our hunting rights in any way feel free to have one of the moderator delete it.I'm ok with that. And clean up the topic.Just because I won't follow you and Tbar like a herd of sheep.Doesn't exactly make me ignorant.Stubborn as a mule I might agree with.
Bear feeding has been used for decades, way before ESG and was started by a commercial bear hunter to provide an alternative food source in the spring to defer peeling. If boot hunting doesn't work for damage (of which I disagree because walking logging roads in the spring in damage areas works) and these permits cant use hounds, how are these damage permits any more effective in the brush of reprod? The brush is still there. Is it only because it is in the spring? Then this is a boot hunt in the spring by special permit. If no amount of boot hunting makes a difference, and no hounds can be used, how are these permits special? Can they hunt over bait? Use snares? What is the caveat that makes these permits more lethal?
Depredation permits are not a recreation hunt and should not be confused as such. The most effective methods of stopping the damage as soon as possible should be allowed, but WDFW continually tightens the screws on permits to the point that they are even more restrictive than standard recreation hunts.
So I'm ignorant for wanting spring bear season back.With a fair draw,point system,and game laws that will ensure every bear is tagged,and not wasted.Ok ,whatever you guys say.If you support this hunt,it will always separate "recreational" and damage hunt of spring black bear.It's like the final nail in the coffin for a traditional spring bear hunt.Is what it is.If you believe I'm hurting our hunting rights in any way feel free to have one of the moderator delete it.I'm ok with that. And clean up the topic.Just because I won't follow you and Tbar like a herd of sheep.Doesn't exactly make me ignorant.Stubborn as a mule I might agree with.
Quote from: hunter399 on August 23, 2023, 05:16:35 AMSo I'm ignorant for wanting spring bear season back.With a fair draw,point system,and game laws that will ensure every bear is tagged,and not wasted.Ok ,whatever you guys say.If you support this hunt,it will always separate "recreational" and damage hunt of spring black bear.It's like the final nail in the coffin for a traditional spring bear hunt.Is what it is.If you believe I'm hurting our hunting rights in any way feel free to have one of the moderator delete it.I'm ok with that. And clean up the topic.Just because I won't follow you and Tbar like a herd of sheep.Doesn't exactly make me ignorant.Stubborn as a mule I might agree with. No, you are ignorant for having no idea what you're talking about and making wild assumptions that spread falsehoods, all without taking the 5 minutes to email WDFW requesting depredation permit info and educating yourself.Obviously you are passionate about a spring bear hunt, which is great. I think any hunter that is worth half his or her salt can see what is going on with our ungulate populations and wants a spring bear hunt. Everyone fully understands that this state's bear populations could sustain a general statewide spring bear hunt without making a mark on the sustainability - WDFW's biologists included. Depredation hunts are not and have never been recreation hunts, and there is no reason that they cannot co-exist. You'd be better served to point this out in your rule making comments than spreading BS while railing against it in fear that depredation somehow replaces recreational hunting.
I think what he is trying to impress upon people is that the Animal Rights crowd, and certainly the Commission pays attention to comments here an uses ignorant statements against sportsmen.
Quote from: Special T on August 22, 2023, 08:30:09 PMI think what he is trying to impress upon people is that the Animal Rights crowd, and certainly the Commission pays attention to comments here an uses ignorant statements against sportsmen. The WWF group did that exact thing at the last commission meeting. Taking off color comments made by sportsmen on Facebook and other online forums and quoting them in their testimony.Gary