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Author Topic: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...  (Read 21825 times)

Offline bowtech721

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2010, 01:12:24 PM »
ya really

Offline JackOfAllTrades

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2010, 01:26:35 PM »
Quote
you are 100% right. it was poor judgment.

The only thing I see bad judgment in is (I'm assuming here..), that you don't practice shoot to that distance.

The 300winmag is very capable of taking an animal at that range. Up hill. Down hill, Horizontally. I see no issue with shooting straight down on an animal. I've known a lot of hunters over the years that prefer the spine shot or neck shot over the heart/lungs. If your target is sitting/laying still, then I see no issue with this if you're an accomplished shooter and know the trajectory of the bullet being fired.
This is where a range finder with the angle of trajectory comes in handy where it will re-calculate the actual horizontal range to target.

Please read here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/shooting_uphill.htm  (especially the last paragraph)

With all that in mind, I'm going to guess that 'straight down' was probably not quite straight down. And, I'll infer that there was a 40 degree down angle as in Chuck's example. So, 400yds becomes 335yds. Now ask yourself.. If you sighted your rifle in a couple inches high at 200yds to attain a MPBR (maximum point blank range) of around 300yds. Horizonally the bullet trajectory only changes a few inches. You point it up a little and it eventually comes down a little. Somewhere 'near' middle range it passes the plain of the scope crosshairs. (horizontal sight)

Please looky here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm  
The 300winmag with a 180gn bullet shoots MPBR to 303yds.  Which would signify that you could have just held dead on and hit the kill zone.  But instead, you hit antler of a sitting Deer, missing the kill zone (if you held say... 6" low, then you missed by a lot more), by as much as 18"..

Even if the horizontal distance to target was only 200yds, the scope crosshairs would only be oh... And get this, you sighted in horizontally at 200yds... 4.5" lower than bullet path if you sighted in ~2" high at 200yds.

Two possibilities!  YOU FLINCHED or the load/rifle is not near as accurate as you think.

Now, I realize that I was not there. I also realize that a buck can move his head and as such the head gear can reach to the top of the spine if he scratches an itch. I'm doubting that you fired when he was putting his nose straight up in the air. I have infered a possible different angle, but please also realize if the horizontal distance was only 15yds, (as an assumed nearly straight down shot), the bullet path would not be much different or 'out of the kill zone at all'. Would you hold a foot low for a buck that was standing across the road from you? NO! You would not. You would aim dead on and have a bullet strike somewhere within the 8" kill zone.

Edit:  I'll add another posibility. A 40mph crosswind moved your bullet off the intended path.

You missed, but it was most likely not because you didn't aim low enough.

-Steve
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 01:35:37 PM by JackOfAllTrades »
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Offline chester

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2010, 06:31:51 PM »
wow...sorry i asked Grundy. didnt mean to open you back up again.
Dilligaf

Offline JackOfAllTrades

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2010, 07:44:16 PM »
You should not be sorry for making this thread come to my attention. My post is not meant to bewilder or ridicule in any way. It is on topic and not part of the trail of dirt from some of the other comments. My post is meant to inform and teach. I do hope that Grundy and others learned something from his experience/mistake and what I wrote.

-Steve
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline grundy53

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2010, 09:41:45 PM »
no worries chester. plus jacks right. im willing to admit when im wrong. as far as the other stuff... i find it funny. lol
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Offline AKBowman

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2010, 09:59:11 PM »
Quote
you are 100% right. it was poor judgment.

The only thing I see bad judgment in is (I'm assuming here..), that you don't practice shoot to that distance.

The 300winmag is very capable of taking an animal at that range. Up hill. Down hill, Horizontally. I see no issue with shooting straight down on an animal. I've known a lot of hunters over the years that prefer the spine shot or neck shot over the heart/lungs. If your target is sitting/laying still, then I see no issue with this if you're an accomplished shooter and know the trajectory of the bullet being fired.
This is where a range finder with the angle of trajectory comes in handy where it will re-calculate the actual horizontal range to target.

Please read here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/shooting_uphill.htm  (especially the last paragraph)

With all that in mind, I'm going to guess that 'straight down' was probably not quite straight down. And, I'll infer that there was a 40 degree down angle as in Chuck's example. So, 400yds becomes 335yds. Now ask yourself.. If you sighted your rifle in a couple inches high at 200yds to attain a MPBR (maximum point blank range) of around 300yds. Horizonally the bullet trajectory only changes a few inches. You point it up a little and it eventually comes down a little. Somewhere 'near' middle range it passes the plain of the scope crosshairs. (horizontal sight)

Please looky here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm  
The 300winmag with a 180gn bullet shoots MPBR to 303yds.  Which would signify that you could have just held dead on and hit the kill zone.  But instead, you hit antler of a sitting Deer, missing the kill zone (if you held say... 6" low, then you missed by a lot more), by as much as 18"..

Even if the horizontal distance to target was only 200yds, the scope crosshairs would only be oh... And get this, you sighted in horizontally at 200yds... 4.5" lower than bullet path if you sighted in ~2" high at 200yds.

Two possibilities!  YOU FLINCHED or the load/rifle is not near as accurate as you think.

Now, I realize that I was not there. I also realize that a buck can move his head and as such the head gear can reach to the top of the spine if he scratches an itch. I'm doubting that you fired when he was putting his nose straight up in the air. I have infered a possible different angle, but please also realize if the horizontal distance was only 15yds, (as an assumed nearly straight down shot), the bullet path would not be much different or 'out of the kill zone at all'. Would you hold a foot low for a buck that was standing across the road from you? NO! You would not. You would aim dead on and have a bullet strike somewhere within the 8" kill zone.

Edit:  I'll add another posibility. A 40mph crosswind moved your bullet off the intended path.

You missed, but it was most likely not because you didn't aim low enough.

-Steve

 :o

Damn, you gun hunters gota hell of a lot more to think about than I gave you credit for!

Nice write up, thanks for the info.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 07:21:16 AM by bobcat »
"All you can do is hunt” - Roy Roth

Offline JackOfAllTrades

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2010, 11:06:51 PM »
The same pricipals I wrote about certainly apply to an arrow in flight.  There are a lot of tree stand bow hunters that have shot over a target game animal, or over-compensated and shot under an animal.

-Steve
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline AKBowman

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2010, 09:49:37 AM »
The same pricipals I wrote about certainly apply to an arrow in flight.  There are a lot of tree stand bow hunters that have shot over a target game animal, or over-compensated and shot under an animal.

-Steve


That is absolutely true. The principle in fact states an "object" in flight.

You're right about the range finders with the compensation for angles built in. I'm always suprised how much practice it takes to get good at judging "horizontal" distance.
"All you can do is hunt” - Roy Roth

Offline chester

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2010, 03:22:42 PM »
no worries chester. plus jacks right. im willing to admit when im wrong. as far as the other stuff... i find it funny. lol

you tell your cousin he's famous now?  :chuckle:
Dilligaf

Offline grundy53

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2010, 07:54:35 AM »
lol. no. he would be pissed. :chuckle:
Molôn Labé
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Offline C-Money

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2010, 08:52:49 AM »
Man....another rough thread. Guy's can sure take a beating around here! I had to buy a composite stock rifle so I would not scratch up my beautiful Weatherby walnut on the arm rest in my pickup!
I felt like a one legged cat trying to bury a terd on a frozen pond!

Offline haus

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2010, 12:53:59 PM »
Personally I think road hunting creates a lot of situations that make hunters look bad to the non-hunting public.

when people jump right off the road and do thier thing it turns into a "Skagit Elk" sized log for the Anti's fire which is not a good thing for all hunters.
:o
I........you can't be serious, your not, you gotta be jokin' right?
RMEF

Offline grundy53

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2010, 11:05:00 PM »
actually i wasn't bragging about it. just showing a picture of it.
Molôn Labé
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Offline TikkaT3-270Shortmag

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2010, 10:00:37 AM »
It happens we arent all perfect.  It drives me nuts how people tell you how to hunt.  We are all adults and can make our own decisions and judgement calls.  Thats a great place to keep your gun while traveling.  Its real easy to make yourself sound perfect online isnt it?? lol It reminds me of that country song called "so much cooler online" by Brad Paisley.  Anyways we dont get them all thats why its called hunting now harvesting!!! Good luck to all this yr im pumped for my multi elk.

Offline loaderboy

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Re: the 4 point bt horn i shot off...
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2010, 04:33:20 PM »
A bedded buck at 400 yds wow small target. If he was bedded and looking away form ya why not try to stalk closer? I think you guys were road hunting but to each their own. I have to give you guys some points though at least you went down there and looked for the deer. happy hunting

 


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