Bullets and wasted meat??

[PA BEN]

So, you use the same type of bullet, lets say Nosler Ballistic tip. One in 120gr and one in 150gr. Lets say both bullets are traveling at 2600fps. Here's the question, "is the lighter bullet going to shock more meat or is it the other way around? This is in 7mm-08.

[littletoes]

Close range or longer range, lets say beyond 500 yards???

I'd have to say, not realy knowing the definitive bullet construction, but it may stand to reason that the heavier bullet is also the "tougher" bullet, and could not only stand the velocity better at close range, but also retain more velocity at longer ranges. Remember, weight also is a part of ballistic coeficient.

[Caretaker]

Noslers are designed to shed weight, which means you are going to get splinter trails through the meat, no matter which one you use, both bullets the same except for the weight, technically the lighter bullet will shed less weight...relative to the heavier bullet that is so essentially it should damage less meat.  Even a well placed shot into the vitals you will get blood trails possibly into the loins, backstrap's, shoulder roasts, if you hit a hind quarter you will lose quite a bit, as much as 15+ lbs on a elk.  I process all my game and get to see the damage by different bullets, because of this I try to use a bonded bullet such as Barnes.  I've done plenty of testing with various bullets into different objects and weighed them afterwards, nothing comes close to the Barnes.  Swift A-Frames are really good but not as accurate of a bullet, plus they are really expensive.  This help at all?

[lokidog]

Don't hit meat and you won't waste any. 

Elk, 400+ yards (before rangefinders), 165 gr ballistic tip, 30-06, about 2800fps.  Hit a rib behind the shoulder and it looked like a shotgun blast with 00 buck shot.  Dropped in its tracks, got up and went 10 yards uphill, turned around and went 15 yards downhill, end of story.  No meat wasted, well maybe some rib meat....

Deer, 125 yards, same load.  Deer was on a hill, hit neck dead center on back about 6 oinches below skull, broke neck, exit hole was about an inch around under the chin, not much meat wasted.

Sorry I can't compare different weights.

[jackelope]

my bud shoots 120 grn 7mm NBT's and they come apart and end up all over the inside of the deer everytime. Seems all it takes is a rib hit or a little shoulder to make them grenade.
 
I'll stick with something like a TSX or I'm gonna try some Accubonds this year.

[Ironhead]

Here is a good analogy of how light and heavy bullets work.
A bumble bee hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph and pretty much disentegrates, A  rock the size of your pinky nail hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph
and chips the window.
A heavier bullet has more mass to hold its self together.
That all being said I shoot 140's and 150's TSX out of a 7mm RUM and have never had a problem.

[PA BEN]

my bud shoots 120 grn 7mm NBT's and they come apart and end up all over the inside of the deer everytime. Seems all it takes is a rib hit or a little shoulder to make them grenade.
 
I'll stick with something like a TSX or I'm gonna try some Accubonds this year.

I've been processing my own deer for 36 years. I always have shot factory ammo, Rem. Core-Locks. I shot 180gr out of a 308. Yes, you get shocked meat, but it has never been to bad. I shot a buck in the butt at 60yds w/one and only lost about a fist full of meat, my wife shot a buck w/it at 30yds facing her in the chest, the 180 core-lock ended up in the ham didn't wast much meat at all. I shot a buck at 325yds, the 180gr core-lock entered right in front of the hind leg (quartering away shot), the bullet traveled through the chest and came out in front of off side front leg, didn't wast much meat at all. Then at Wal-Mart one day they had Fed. HI-SHOCK 180gr in 308 real cheep. I stocked up on ammo and shot a buck behind the shoulder w/it at 100yds. The buck dropped like it was shot in the spine. I thought wow I hit him high. When I gutted him he was shot up real good in the chest and I did hit him right behind the shoulder. The bullet came apart and a piece of the bullet took out his spine. I never used them again on game animals. So, now that I'm reloading and using better bullets I was thinking of using the heaver bullets for deer and elk. But, in my 7mm.rem mag. I put out a nosler accuboud at just over 3000fps, a lot faster then a 308. Anyway, I hope you can see what I'm getting at here w/the heaver bullets? This is my own experience's and was trying to prove my theory w/heaver bullets here from people w/more knowledge then myself.    

[PA BEN]

Here is a good analogy of how light and heavy bullets work.
A bumble bee hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph and pretty much disentegrates, A  rock the size of your pinky nail hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph
and chips the window.
A heavier bullet has more mass to hold its self together.
That all being said I shoot 140's and 150's TSX out of a 7mm RUM and have never had a problem.

So, with you said here, no mater how good the bullet is built the lighter ones are more likely to come appart and shock more meat.

[byrdman]

Here is a good analogy of how light and heavy bullets work.
A bumble bee hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph and pretty much disentegrates, A  rock the size of your pinky nail hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph
and chips the window.
A heavier bullet has more mass to hold its self together.
That all being said I shoot 140's and 150's TSX out of a 7mm RUM and have never had a problem.

So, with you said here, no mater how good the bullet is built the lighter ones are more likely to come appart and shock more meat.

Maybe we should compare a golf ball sized bumble bee to normal size bumble bee?
I would say that the greater mass and volume of the heavier projectile is going to contact much more muscle and do more damage than an identically constructed lighter bullet.

 

[Bob33]

Bullet weight has very little to do with whether or not a bullet holds together.  Bullet construction does.  By design, some bullets are designed to shed weight, and some are designed to retain weight.  Nosler bullets are designed to lose about 30% to 40% of their weight.  That means if you hit an animal with a Partition, Accubond, or Ballistic Tip, you can expect that about 30% to 40% of the bullet's weight will separate.  If you recover a bullet, it will weigh about 60% to 70% of its original weight.

Bullets like the Barnes TSX, Hornady Interbond, Swift A Frame, and some others are designed to retain close to 100% of their weight.  When they hit an animal, they do not shed any of their weight.

It is an endless debate which design is better.  However, there is a good case to be made that you can use a lighter bullet weight when using a design intended to retain more weight.  In other words, if you shoot a 180 grain Partition, you can expect to have 180 grains going in, and about 130 grains on the other side of the animal.  If you shoot the same animal with a 150 grain TSX, you can expect to have 150 grains going in, and 150 grains going out.

[jackelope]

PA BEN...
you've been processing your deer for more years than I have. I can tell you that every deer he's killed with that 7mag and those NBT's I've processed and every one of them has been full of shrapnel from those bullets. I'm not sure any of them have exited the other side. I use a totally different heavier bullet in a larger caliber so I can't compare my results to his. I wouldn't say we've lost a ton of meat off of his deer and they've all been very very dead....so what's worse? I dunno. It all comes down to where your bullet hits and what makes contact to it on it's way through. I like to go through and through with as much mass as practical so I shoot the TSX 165's out of a couple different .30 cal's. We'll see how the 180 Accubond works out for me hopefully this year. Given it's reviews, I'm pretty sure as long as I do my part it's gonna do it's part. Thats a whole different discussion.

[PA BEN]

I've never shot the nbt's, I did shoot a doe last year in the head w/a 160gr Accubond at 250yds, no bullet to recover, but no wasted meat. From what I'm hearing about nbt's I think those w/be my practice rounds. BTW, my brother in law shot a buck in the neck w/those fed. hi-shock bullets out of a 270, and it shocked the meat through the shoulders and the chest.    

[Bob33]

Jackelope, you can expect similar results from the Accubond that you have from the Ballistic Tip.  The Accubond is supposed to be a cross between the Partition and the Ballistic Tip.  It may retain a bit more weight than a ballistic tip, but not much.  If you ask Nosler, and I have, they will tell you that the Accubond retains about 60% to 70% of its weight, and the ballistic tip retains 55% to 60%.

They design their bullets to shed weight.  They believe shrapnel kills an animal more quickly than a monolithic bullet like the TSX that does not shrapnel.

[PA BEN]

So you don't always believe what you read
Through a Nosler-exclusive bonding process that eliminates voids in the bullet core, AccuBond couples Nosler's traditional copper-alloy jacket with its special lead-alloy core. The result is a bullet that flies true, penetrates deep and retains its weight, without causing extensive barrel fouling. The polymer tip resists deforming and initiates expansion on impact. The jacket base acts as a platform for large diameter mushrooms. Solid Base® boattail configuration for extreme long-range performance. Per 50.

Nosler is making an E tip now.
This lead-free bullet is built on a highly concentric gilding metal frame for superb penetration and weight retention with less fouling than regular copper bullets. A polycarbonate tip prevents deformation in a magazine, boosts aerodynamic efficiency and initiates expansion. The Energy Expansion Cavity™ expands immediately on impact yet retains 95%+ weight for superb penetration. The boattail bullet reduces drag with an efficient flight profile. Per 50.

[Bob33]

PA Ben, the new E Tip is a departure for Nosler.  It is designed to retain nearly all its weight.  The Accubond is designed to retain around 60% to 70%.  

http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Accubond.aspx
Nosler’s proprietary bonding process eliminates all possibility of component separation resulting in 60-70% weight retention.

It seems that high weight retention for bullets has become the holy grail.  

In my experience, bullets that shed weight do kill a bit quicker than monolithic bullets.  That said, I prefer bullets with high weight retention for two reasons: (1) I want an exit hole to create a blood trail, and (2) the thought of 30% of the bullet's weight being left in an animal bothers me.