Montana Draw Deadline

[TwoBear]

Just a heads up to all, Montana draw deadline is March 15.  We no longer are able to supply Outfitter Sponsored Tags, so everybody has to put in for the draw.  It looks like some real high draw odds in Montana this year for those who are planning to over here. 

[TwoBear]

Just gonna bump this for those who are considering Montana this year.  Tic toc tic toc.....................lol.

[400out]

So how are guys going to reserve their hunt this year? are the guides going to wait to see who gets drawn to book or are you guys going to offer a small reserve fee until a hunter finds out of they get a tag?

[Todd_ID]

Am I reading this correctly that the combo license went up from $643 last year to $912 this year?  Isn't that a bad way to do business?  We want more people to apply, so we'll raise the fees.  Sure, the outfitted hunters are smiling because their price went down from $1500, but they are not the bulk of the money coming in, and they are also the group most likely to absorb a fee increase.

We've been thinking about applying, but a $300 increase may exclude about 3 out of our group of 5.

[norsepeak]

 

[Jason]

I decided not to apply this year, I was fine with the $643 not the $912  , So I
spent my money on other things this year. I have been wanting a pack gun for hiking
and Hunting.

[400out]

Am I reading this correctly that the combo license went up from $643 last year to $912 this year?  Isn't that a bad way to do business?  We want more people to apply, so we'll raise the fees.  Sure, the outfitted hunters are smiling because their price went down from $1500, but they are not the bulk of the money coming in, and they are also the group most likely to absorb a fee increase.

We've been thinking about applying, but a $300 increase may exclude about 3 out of our group of 5.

I understand Todd bad deal but, I will not book a hunt with a guide not knowing if I'm getting drawn! unless I can reserve my spot for no charge untill I get conformation of my tags 
It looks like a marketing nightmare for guides 

[TwoBear]

Well here it is in a nutshell.  Yes, I-161 passed eliminating the outfitter sponsored tag and greatly increasing the NR tags.  Naturally, I was opposed to its passage.  We are booking for the standard 1000.oo/book fee.  However, we also send out a hard copy of our new refund policy before anyobdy sends us down to book a hunt.  We have not had any problems thus far with folks not wanted to send deposits.  Others will and most know it, since outfitters are first come first served, those who send deposit get the book. 

I can't speak for other outfitters but our policy is simple: if you don't draw we give you the option of rolling your down into next year, or receiving a 100% refund.  I know we are in the minority with that, but I honestly cannot see trying to hold on to anybody's down money because they didn't draw.  If folks don't draw, they get a refund from us for the full amount.  They, and everybody they tell will know that we stand by what we say and their down is safe with us.  As the years go by, it will be easier to book hunts for us because folks know their down money is refunded by Two Bear.  I think this is the smartest most honest way to deal with this new policy as we head into the future with these new regulations.

This year, with the increased fees and outfitter tags going back in the general pool, the draw odds or going to be extremely high, like 95%+ kind of high.  Montana over the next couple years will essentially be a OTC state via the draw process.  It may even be we have tags left over, we are all waiting to see what happens.  For us, we do not have the down money as operating capital because of the possibilty of folks not drawing.  So outfits that are marginal and need those operating funds, they could find themselves in hot water were it not for high draw results.  The biggest downside for us as we move into the future is repeat cleints.  We depend a fair amount on repeats, and now that the outfitter tag is gone they have to draw.  This could seriously jeopardize the repeat flow and only hurts good solid operations.

[Huntnphish]

Just a heads up to all, Montana draw deadline is March 15.  We no longer are able to supply Outfitter Sponsored Tags, so everybody has to put in for the draw.  It looks like some real high draw odds in Montana this year for those who are planning to over here. 

 I dont see the odds increasing much at all. For the sake of arguement lets say there were 2000 deer tags available last year and 2000 guaranteed tags for the outfitter. Those 2K tags that the outfitters were giving out are now going into the general deer draw, so 4000 total. Again for the sake of arguement, lets assume that last year all the outfitter tags were given out, this means 2K hunters for both categories. Now, because of I-161, everyone is lumped into the same general category to draw from, there are still those 2K outfitter hunters that are applying, except now they are applying in the same category as you. Odds may change slightly either way but its not going to be significant.

 I hope that makes sense.

[270Shooter]

Just a heads up to all, Montana draw deadline is March 15.  We no longer are able to supply Outfitter Sponsored Tags, so everybody has to put in for the draw.  It looks like some real high draw odds in Montana this year for those who are planning to over here. 

 I dont see the odds increasing much at all. For the sake of arguement lets say there were 2000 deer tags available last year and 2000 guaranteed tags for the outfitter. Those 2K tags that the outfitters were giving out are now going into the general deer draw, so 4000 total. Again for the sake of arguement, lets assume that last year all the outfitter tags were given out, this means 2K hunters for both categories. Now, because of I-161, everyone is lumped into the same general category to draw from, there are still those 2K outfitter hunters that are applying, except now they are applying in the same category as you. Odds may change slightly either way but its not going to be significant.

 I hope that makes sense.

I seriously doubt that there were 2,000 people buying outfitter deer tags in montana last year. Seems way to high to me, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not happy about the price increase, and I really don't understand why anyone in their right mind would want it. But Im still going to apply there.

[Huntnphish]

I seriously doubt that there were 2,000 people buying outfitter deer tags in montana last year. Seems way to high to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

 You must have missed the part where I said "For the sake of arguement"

 

[TwoBear]

Draw odds are up dramatically.  We had 11500 tags and around 18000 applicants in 2009, now we have 5500 outfitters tags in the mix plus a dramatic fee increase.  Thats 17000 available tags, plus you can bet that there are many folks not applying this year due to a huge increase in draw fees.  If my suspicion is right, draw odds are going to be close to 100%.  I should add that the outfitter tags were trending down hard since 2007, and never sold out in 2009 or 2010. 

[rb2506]

i hope so

[Huntnphish]

We had 11500 tags and around 18000 applicants in 2009,

 You are talking about the Combo for $898?

[TwoBear]

Yes.  Montana has the draw stats from 2009, 2010 are not posted as of yesterday.  You will notice that the Outfitter sponsored tag dropped from about 6700 applicants in 2007, to 3800 in 2009.  Keep in mind because the tags did not sell out the kept selling them for 6 months after the deadline to even get that number.  Also keep in mind the tag prices were coming down to adjust for lack of sales, in other words, prior to the fee increase the sales were trending down hard even with adjusted prices.  At the end of the day nobody knows what will really happen, but if the current trends hold, there will be a fair amount of people not applying for Montana this year.