Drano lake ~~~~ Bank fisherman lose bank fishing spots

[huntergreg]

Here is an article on the subject.    What are your thoughts??

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jul/03/anglers-question-yakama-tribe-fishing-platforms/


COOK, Wash. — Tribal fishermen have built about a dozen platforms off the Columbia River along Drano Lake, a move likely to spark conflict with long-standing non-Indian salmon and steelhead fisheries.

“I’ve never seen Indian platforms here before,’’ said Don Morby of nearby Mill A, a Drano Lake angler for almost five decades. “Will they let me fish off them? I’d love to fish off them.’’

Drano Lake is a large backwater at the mouth of the Little White Salmon River in eastern Skamania County that’s crowded with anglers during peak fish runs.

Chinook return to power a popular sport fishery at Drano, especially in April and May, then again in September.

Summer steelhead dipping into the cool water for a respite from the warmer Columbia fuel a 24-hour-a-day fishery in July, August and early September.

Speros Doulos, manager of the four federal salmon hatcheries in the Columbia Gorge, said the first two platforms were built on Memorial Day weekend. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service owns the land along Drano Lake as part of Little White Salmon hatchery.

The Fish, Wildlife and Law Enforcement Committee of the Yakama Tribal Council on May 31 authorized platform and hook-and-line gear in Drano Lake.

Drano Lake is one of several tributaries fished by the Yakama tribe.

While fishing in the Columbia River is managed by the tribes and non-Indians through the Columbia River Compact process, tribal authorities solely manage Indian fisheries in the tributaries.

The platforms and hook-and-line gear will be closed Tuesday nights and Sundays, according to the tribal committee’s action notice.

Yakama Indian Nation fishery officials have not returned repeated calls from reporters for comment about the platforms.

Stuart Ellis, a fishery scientist for the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission, said the Yakama catch of spring chinook in Drano has been accomplished via gillnet fishing on Tuesday nights by tribal members issued permits.

A decision has been made to harvest some of the tribal allocation via the platforms instead of gillnets, he said.

While the time and manner of harvest is changing, the overall tribal share is not, Ellis said.

Tribal and non-Indian fishing in the tributaries long has been a collaborative process between the tribes and Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.

The harvest is split 50-50, although Wind River, Drano Lake, the White Salmon River, Klickitat River and Icicle Creek are managed in the aggregate, not individually, he said.

“It’s been year-to-year and area-by-area subject to change to help everybody’s fishery to work smoothly,’’ Ellis said.

The Yakama tribe opened reservation land along the Yakima River this year to sport fishing, an example of how cooperation works, he added.

Nevertheless, construction of the platforms on Drano Lake caught the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife by surprise.

Cindy LeFleur, Columbia River policy coordinator, said she started hearing from sport fishermen in substantial numbers in June. This week, she said she still hasn’t learned more from the Yakamas about the platforms.

“We’re concerned if they are taking over the bank fishing,’’ LeFleur said. “We don’t have that much up there.’’

Asked if non-Indians can fish off the platforms, she said: “They were built by Yakama members, I wouldn’t recommend it.’’

Doulos, hatchery complex manager, has asked for a Department of Interior solicitor’s office opinion on the platform issue.

“I’m going to assume the tribe has a right to construct a platform in the ceded area of the Yakamas,’’ Doulos said. “Until I get a solicitor’s office legal read, I’m taking a hands-off approach.’’

The road along the west side of Drano Lake is closed from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m. to prevent camping. Anglers can park along state Highway 14 and walk in to fish at night.

Doulos said he is concerned about tribal fishermen camping, making fires and the litter associated with camping. He’s also concerned if tribal members are allowed in at night and non-Indians are excluded.

Some platforms are next to an orange buoy line that marks the closed-waters boundary. Tribal fishermen on Tuesday nights have been using the buoys as an anchor point for their nets.

“It’s knocked the buoys out of line,’’ Doulos said. “It looks like a zigzag.’’

Hatchery staff then have to go out and straighten the boundary, he said.

Doulos said many of anglers who fish along the shore of Drano Lake have been doing so for decades and will be very upset if they lose their spots. Angler Dan Mack of Lyle agreed.

“Most of the places to fish from the bank have got a platform now,’’ he said.

[huntergreg]

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/aug/04/platforms-limit-access-to-fishing-along-drano-lake/


WHITE SALMON — For 60 of his 80 years, Vern Musgrove has been fishing at Drano Lake, a backwater off the Bonneville Reservoir where the Little White Salmon River flows into the Columbia River.

The Yakima angler’s Drano days, though, may be coming to an end. He gave up boat-fishing after a 2005 accident left him with a bad back — “I can’t pull anchor any more,” he says — and limited him to a couple of easily accessible spots on the lake’s western shore.

Now both of those spots, and several of the lake’s other areas readily available to bank anglers — are occupied by wooden platforms, built over the last two months by Yakama tribal anglers.

One of those sites is the western-end fishing area the locals refer to by names like “Social Security Beach” and “Medicare Beach” for its popularity with older fishermen, some of them with disabilities, who struggle to reach the bank at some of the lake’s steeper, more rugged areas.

Officials with the Little White Salmon Fish Hatchery have planned for months to put in a ramp so wheelchair-bound anglers could fish from the beach.

Only now there are two platforms in front of it.

“People are just up in arms,” said Dennis Evans of Toppenish. “There’s scaffolds right on the beach and in the water in front of the beach, and you can’t fish there because you’re casting out between them.”

That may become much more of an issue over the next six weeks or so if Drano fills up with the steelhead-fishing crowd it typically does in August and early September.

“There’s been fishermen that have called and asked why haven’t you taken them down? They call and they’re very, very upset. It’s a serious thing,” said Speros Doulos, complex manager of the Columbia River Gorge National Fish Hatchery Complex, which includes the Little White Salmon, Willard, Spring Creek and Carson federally-run fish hatcheries.

“I’m really concerned for that night fishery during the steelhead season. If you’ve got tribal fishermen doing their net fishery and you’ve got the intense night steelhead fishery … it’s really busy. And on top of that, you’ve got guys drinking beer. Given the concerns we’ve heard from sport anglers already, I’m concerned about the potential for conflict.”

For years the Drano bank and boat anglers fishing in the same areas has been a simmering stew of resentment that has occasionally boiled over until emergency regulations instituted in 2009 (and since made permanent) by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife mandated some distance between them.

“Seemed like the sheriff was called in every day to stop a fight,” Evans said. “Guys throwing lead shot at the boats … they designed razor-blade sinkers to cut (boaters’) lines to discourage them (from cutting) their line.”

The animosity went both ways. “The boat fishermen will get in there and if you cast too close to their boats, they’ll get mad,” Musgrove said. “One guy pulled a gun out and said, ‘You do that again, I’m gonna shoot you.’”

Skamania County Sheriff Dave Brown said he hopes his officers aren’t in line for more incidents like that with the busiest part of the steelhead summer coming up.

“The scaffolding issue obviously creates a whole new potential for problems,” Brown said. “And as the steelhead run starts to run in over the next week or two, we’re probably going to have some issues out there and be dispatching units to deal with them.”

Brown said the potential for problems would have been diminished had the tribal plan been made public early on, “if the tribe, the fish and wildlife people, the sportsmen and the county could have gotten together for a little bit of education as to what’s going out there.”

Such a meeting might also have reminded non-tribal anglers that the Yakamas are within their treaty rights to fish in any of their traditional fishing areas, including the Little White Salmon.

[runamuk]

yep they are a glorious sight to behold 

[wildmanoutdoors]

Most people dont get it. The tribes do what they want! Its all in the treaties. They can desimate a run too the last 2 spawing fish as long as it dosent go exstinct. They dont have to tell the state shiat. If the state tries to fight they threaten a federal lawsuit. The state dosent have the money to fight that and ALWAYS gives in. Done deal! Get used to it!
They also can do shiat like this with hatchery runs. They dont have to say shiat. Look at the Chehalis water shed as an example of were Im from. Plant a few hatchery fish thru April and keep the native by catch as well. Even though I cant.

Bitch all ya want but until the Fed gov gets involved get used to it.

Fuk the yaks and all the othe tribes who play this way! PERIOD! Oh yea, they hunt elk the same way. And one good one dont change shiat. Appoligise not accepted!

[wildmanoutdoors]

Some of ya'll need to read the treaty! Its all there!

[runamuk]

traditional grounds my white ass .... drano didnt exist until the columbia was dammed up so POST treaty so not a traditional location  some of this stuff is so blatantly rubbing noses I predict some remakes of the wild west are gonna happen in the near future the boiling point is about to be reached 

and I have read these treaties or quite a few of them along with the monstrosity of a treaty being written right now in BC as well ...... sort of hard to study northwest coast peoples and not also learn about the treaties...

[dirty24d]

my spidey sense is telling me there will be sevral murders and vicious assaluts there this year.  Oh and that this is one of the most ridiculous thing sive ever read,  how are those platforms not being ripped down...   


Glad i dont fish there....   

 

[Yak-NDN]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

Tribal run, But not tribal funded. Who funds those tribal hatcheries??? Do you know?

[Gringo31]

What a huge favor we owe to the tribe for their flawless efforts in conservation as well as endless work on restoring and managing our wildlife.

With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river

I'd like a list of the things the tribe does for the Columbia River or anything other than themselves or the tribe.  Hell, I'd like to know (I really would) all the things it does (on it's own because it wants to and see the value) in the name of conservation.  Gill nets?  Selling oversize sturgeon to the fish market to name a few. 

And we talk out our ass?

lol

[Wenatcheejay]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

Hey Yak NDN, I have a question. I gave up salmon fishing because it is just plain nuts in my opinion.  My question is in the off season people sturgeon fish where the platforms are now being built. Will the average citizen be allowed to use them during non-salmon run season to do their sturgeon fishing? If you could find out I would appreciate it.

[runamuk]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

Hey Yak NDN, I have a question. I gave up salmon fishing because it is just plain nuts in my opinion.  My question is in the off season people sturgeon fish where the platforms are now being built. Will the average citizen be allowed to use them during non-salmon run season to do their sturgeon fishing? If you could find out I would appreciate it.

this is gonna be catty but

the first white guy to fall off a platform is gonna sue who? the tribes or the state.....there is no way they will let us use them...
 what would happen first is more of our land shut down so we cant use it and they can...the platforms look like hell and the shoreline full of fish carcasses doesnt help its nasty and shows a serious lack of respect for nature the environment and other people.....why should I have respect for someone who obviously has complete lack of respect for anyone but themselves? and I actually bet they dont respect themselves much either ... its greed plain and simple.....

[Yak-NDN]

Tribal run, But not tribal funded. Who funds those tribal hatcheries??? Do you know?

Sure do its Federal grant money,Core of engineers money, Tribal money, Law Suit money from the dams. That allows the tribe to hire non tribal contractors to build and renovate the hatchery's it allows the tribe to hire non tribal members from Portland to Methow.. That allows the 50/50 split to be a much larger number.

[Yak-NDN]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

Hey Yak NDN, I have a question. I gave up salmon fishing because it is just plain nuts in my opinion.  My question is in the off season people sturgeon fish where the platforms are now being built. Will the average citizen be allowed to use them during non-salmon run season to do their sturgeon fishing? If you could find out I would appreciate it.
[/quot/]
 tribal people would not have a problem with you fishing off of it. I think it is a bunch of crap all together. I was in Drano about a month ago and one Tribal member had about 15 spots he was going to build. That's greedy and *censored*ty. I feel they should pull out all of them and go back to just the Tuesday gill net season. I am a platform owner on the Columbia. Sturgeon fisherman use it all the time even put a rod holder on it for them.

[PlateauNDN]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

Hey Yak NDN, I have a question. I gave up salmon fishing because it is just plain nuts in my opinion.  My question is in the off season people sturgeon fish where the platforms are now being built. Will the average citizen be allowed to use them during non-salmon run season to do their sturgeon fishing? If you could find out I would appreciate it.

The answer for this question is no.  It's considered trespassing because the platforms are built by tribal members for tribal members use only.  And like Yak NDN I don't fish down there and I don't agree as well with the platforms so in my opinion they should be taken down.

Also no apologies from me either and you may not agree with gill netting or dip netting but we have been doing that for longer than you or me have been here and way before any of the dams were built.  I may not gill net or dip net but that does not mean I'm going to let a part of my culture disappear with my father just because you don't like it. 

My family has been doing it for centuries and I remember watching my grandfathers' make and repair them for many different families.  You may not like it and I may not like what somebody else does but you don't see me saying I hate this ethnic group or that ethnic group.

If you want to learn more about the efforts of our Fisheries Program then search Yakama Nation Fisheries and it will bring up the website and you can read about it for yourselves.

[Wenatcheejay]

Thank you YakNDN for your input. I think some of the local worries were that they would not be able to fish from shore all year.
I agree that there is some "blow it out your ass" talk around here. If people don't like what is going on they need to join sportsmans groups and donate money, write letters, attend meetings, and be ready for a tooth and nail fight for every inch of every cause.
Otherwise, it's just "asstalk."

[PlateauNDN]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

Hey Yak NDN, I have a question. I gave up salmon fishing because it is just plain nuts in my opinion.  My question is in the off season people sturgeon fish where the platforms are now being built. Will the average citizen be allowed to use them during non-salmon run season to do their sturgeon fishing? If you could find out I would appreciate it.
[/quot/]
 tribal people would not have a problem with you fishing off of it. I think it is a bunch of crap all together. I was in Drano about a month ago and one Tribal member had about 15 spots he was going to build. That's greedy and *censored*ty. I feel they should pull out all of them and go back to just the Tuesday gill net season. I am a platform owner on the Columbia. Sturgeon fisherman use it all the time even put a rod holder on it for them.

My apologies YakNDN I didn't notice you had responded while I was typing and I have as well helped out friends but up in the Icicle area not the Columbia area.  I have found working together produces quality results not quantity and I would rather have quality over quantity any day.

[Yak-NDN]

You guys talk out your ass way to much your all so tuff. Do I agree with the Drano lake issue hell no they should not allow platforms in their I think it looks like *censored*. And wildman no apology from me.  Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish. With all the pressure from people that don't know about the Tribal people and what they do for the Columbia river they have talked about not clipping the fish any more that would cut down your clipped fish to about none. Then you would see how many fish the tribe releases into the system that all you get to catch. I thought the tuesday draw was getting the tribes 50% i don't know.

Hey Yak NDN, I have a question. I gave up salmon fishing because it is just plain nuts in my opinion.  My question is in the off season people sturgeon fish where the platforms are now being built. Will the average citizen be allowed to use them during non-salmon run season to do their sturgeon fishing? If you could find out I would appreciate it.

this is gonna be catty but

the first white guy to fall off a platform is gonna sue who? the tribes or the state.....there is no way they will let us use them...
 what would happen first is more of our land shut down so we cant use it and they can...the platforms look like hell and the shoreline full of fish carcasses doesnt help its nasty and shows a serious lack of respect for nature the environment and other people.....why should I have respect for someone who obviously has complete lack of respect for anyone but themselves? and I actually bet they dont respect themselves much either ... its greed plain and simple.....

Sue who? lol that's funny *censored* first thing you can think of. lol Sue happy? And the carcasses are probably steelhead? I dint know because I have not been their. Them platforms are their for the Springer's. And any carcasses that are their are probably left form the state steelhead fisherman. And I applaud them for it because that is where you should put them in the water for all the other species to feed from.

[Wenatcheejay]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

[remington300mag]

Just remember when fishing down there guys.....If you hook and land a "Native" you must release it without removing completely from the water.   

[PlateauNDN]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

Yes it is unfair and I'm sure things will continue to happen down there.  Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off.  It might be different down on the Columbia, but I don't know for sure because I've not fished down there via scaffold.

[runamuk]

Its sad to me I had never fished Drano and took my son who loves to fish as well and this has been my introduction to this area...I actually in the past I had taken up the side of the natives and normally I tend to rally for the underdog seeing as I am one, but the lack of regard for others is disheartening to me....



as for the suing yes my first thought is just how much taxpayer money will be wasted on another stupid lawsuit since in todays America this is how you solve problems you sue...

[Huntbear]

Have a funny feeling there will be some bonfires. Right before springer season next spring.

[FC]

Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish.

Claiming that it's all done by the tribes is a joke, right after that you are talking about grants, money from BS lawsuits etc being used to fund it all, so while you appear unable to come right out and say it you can apparently see the reality of just who is paying for it.


                                                                                    TAXPAYERS

[Wenatcheejay]

Have a funny feeling there will be some bonfires. Right before springer season next spring.

Maybe. but if YAKNDN is right and the owners are willing to share the platformed area so long as it does not interfere with their harvest and the Tribesmen are treated with respect, why? At some point people with clear heads have to look for middle ground.

If they are built to be a big middle finger by the Tribe, built to willfully keep shorefishermen from recreating, well, then that would be a different matter.

[carpsniperg2]

There is some good conversation in here, so keep it on track guys

[Yak-NDN]

Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish.

Claiming that it's all done by the tribes is a joke, right after that you are talking about grants, money from BS lawsuits etc being used to fund it all, so while you appear unable to come right out and say it you can apparently see the reality of just who is paying for it.


                                                                                    TAXPAYERS

Yes you are welcome for what I pay in on my tax's and I thank you for what you pay in. But if you like I'm sure Obama could find a better way to spend some of that money.  I bet you would still be complaining.

[remington300mag]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

Yes it is unfair and I'm sure things will continue to happen down there.  Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off.  It might be different down on the Columbia, but I don't know for sure because I've not fished down there via scaffold.

PLATEAU.......This is a BS statement! Either you have never actually fished the Icicle, know anything about it, or just misinformed.....where the platforms are set up on the Icicle is directly outside the Leavenworth National Fish Hatchery......Americans can only fish 400' below the hatchery! That goes for every species and any time of the year. At NO time does a tribal member allow Americans on there platforms to fish.....because there are no seasons there for us.....so the gamies and tribal cops would eat us alive for it....

[Wenatcheejay]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

Yes it is unfair and I'm sure things will continue to happen down there.  Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off.  It might be different down on the Columbia, but I don't know for sure because I've not fished down there via scaffold.

PLATEAU.......This is a BS statement! Either you have never actually fished the Icicle, know anything about it, or just misinformed.....where the platforms are set up on the Icicle is directly outside the Leavenworth National Fish Hatchery......Americans can only fish 400' below the hatchery! That goes for every species and any time of the year. At NO time does a tribal member allow Americans on there platforms to fish.....because there are no seasons there for us.....so the gamies and tribal cops would eat us alive for it....

But on Drano these platforms were built with no forwarding in public fishing area. I was there when they were going up, (driving by not fishing.) WDFW was there on the phone. The guys (Plat&YAKNDN) have been pretty respectful and both have stated that they don't think that the Platforms should be there either in the manner they are being put up. They have been respectful and I hope we will be when talking to them. IF they become shared permanent platforms I could see this being a win win for all. If this becomes flexing power for sovereignty I see it being drama and they will probably come down. So, in the mean time my local friends, if they knew that they are not loosing their fishing spots, I see it being easier to accept. But that area is hot and contested. I have heard natives be as hateful speaking about sportsmen as sportsmen are towards them. I just hope that the desire is a middle ground. Otherwise, this can only end badly.

[FC]

Have you looked into who runs most of the hatchery's from bon dam up it tribal yup most of them fish you catch above Bon dam are tribal hatchery fish.

Claiming that it's all done by the tribes is a joke, right after that you are talking about grants, money from BS lawsuits etc being used to fund it all, so while you appear unable to come right out and say it you can apparently see the reality of just who is paying for it.


                                                                                    TAXPAYERS

Yes you are welcome for what I pay in on my tax's and I thank you for what you pay in. But if you like I'm sure Obama could find a better way to spend some of that money.  I bet you would still be complaining.

My point was that I dislike seeing misleading statements regarding whom is actually paying for our fisheries, I have seen people try and wave that flag before and amazingly enough it always turns out to be the taxpayers who are actually paying for the hatcheries. You and I both know that if the hatcheries were run exclusively by a tribe(s) there would be no marking of fish.

[PlateauNDN]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

Yes it is unfair and I'm sure things will continue to happen down there.  Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off.  It might be different down on the Columbia, but I don't know for sure because I've not fished down there via scaffold.

PLATEAU.......This is a BS statement! Either you have never actually fished the Icicle, know anything about it, or just misinformed.....where the platforms are set up on the Icicle is directly outside the Leavenworth National Fish Hatchery......Americans can only fish 400' below the hatchery! That goes for every species and any time of the year. At NO time does a tribal member allow Americans on there platforms to fish.....because there are no seasons there for us.....so the gamies and tribal cops would eat us alive for it....

BS?  HHmmm....well then if its BS then maybe I should take the post down I put in this fishing section about getting some fishing time in finally!  And maybe I should erase the comments and pics I posted of my children catching their first salmon because you say its BS.  Well thanks for the comment and next time I'll be sure to leave my BS posts off of here because you said.

Oh and the attached picture could not be from Icicle either because that would be completely BS that I've fished there.

[TheHunt]

FC,
You have not said one thing that I would disagree with... 

[FC]

BS?  HHmmm....well then if its BS then maybe I should take the post down I put in this fishing section about getting some fishing time in finally!  And maybe I should erase the comments and pics I posted of my children catching their first salmon because you say its BS.  Well thanks for the comment and next time I'll be sure to leave my BS posts off of here because you said.

Oh and the attached picture could not be from Icicle either because that would be completely BS that I've fished there.

I think he was pointing more toward the idea that the platforms are above the general no fishing line and so couldn't be shared with all.

[remington300mag]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

Yes it is unfair and I'm sure things will continue to happen down there.  Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off.  It might be different down on the Columbia, but I don't know for sure because I've not fished down there via scaffold.

PLATEAU.......This is a BS statement! Either you have never actually fished the Icicle, know anything about it, or just misinformed.....where the platforms are set up on the Icicle is directly outside the Leavenworth National Fish Hatchery......Americans can only fish 400' below the hatchery! That goes for every species and any time of the year. At NO time does a tribal member allow Americans on there platforms to fish.....because there are no seasons there for us.....so the gamies and tribal cops would eat us alive for it....

BS?  HHmmm....well then if its BS then maybe I should take the post down I put in this fishing section about getting some fishing time in finally!  And maybe I should erase the comments and pics I posted of my children catching their first salmon because you say its BS.  Well thanks for the comment and next time I'll be sure to leave my BS posts off of here because you said.

Oh and the attached picture could not be from Icicle either because that would be completely BS that I've fished there.

I stick to my comment! Fact is Plateau....The tribe does not let "Anyone" fish off there platforms on the Icicle.....and if you are going to sit there and say that is your stand....then yes I will call BS! And if anyone on here wants to say they believe your statement.....then we will just have to have them show up on any given day during the spring Chinook season....walk up onto the platforms and start fishing...and see what happens to them!! First off, it is illegal for any WHITE man to fish within' 400' for the hatchery.....second, a WHITE man walking up the bank from the boat launch parking area is immediately approached by tribesman as asked what they want, then normally asked how much they want to buy fish for, they are not welcomed there with open arms....oh, that is after wading through the mounds of trash to get there! I was born and raised on that river, in the town it runs through..... This is the way it is.....and the way it has been since they started fishing at the hatchery....
But if you honestly believe they are welcoming White men onto those platforms Plateau.....maybe we could meet up there next year unannounced....get a volunteer to walk up there and start fishing....so you can see what happens......

[remington300mag]

Oh and Plateau,  Ya, that photo was taken on the Icicle....it was taken just down from the White mans boundary line sign. The sign hangs on the tree just to your right hand, on the tree that's branches are coming into the picture......NO White Man is PERMITTED from going above that sign!
Ya know, I can take a picture at a zoo.....but it doesn't make me an expert on Lions!! Just sayin'!!!

[PlateauNDN]

PlateauNDN,

I think that the Westy boat fisherman will do their usually anti-indian stuff as to the platforms. But the people who live down there and sturgeon fish from shore are not going to just accept this. It is unfair to deny everyone access year round. That is to much a public area. If YAKNDN is right I don't think it will be as much an issue, if he is wrong I don't think they will stand or there will be a lot of drama with people who don't just use it for a vacation spot, they live there. 

Yes it is unfair and I'm sure things will continue to happen down there.  Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off.  It might be different down on the Columbia, but I don't know for sure because I've not fished down there via scaffold.

PLATEAU.......This is a BS statement! Either you have never actually fished the Icicle, know anything about it, or just misinformed.....where the platforms are set up on the Icicle is directly outside the Leavenworth National Fish Hatchery......Americans can only fish 400' below the hatchery! That goes for every species and any time of the year. At NO time does a tribal member allow Americans on there platforms to fish.....because there are no seasons there for us.....so the gamies and tribal cops would eat us alive for it....

BS?  HHmmm....well then if its BS then maybe I should take the post down I put in this fishing section about getting some fishing time in finally!  And maybe I should erase the comments and pics I posted of my children catching their first salmon because you say its BS.  Well thanks for the comment and next time I'll be sure to leave my BS posts off of here because you said.

Oh and the attached picture could not be from Icicle either because that would be completely BS that I've fished there.

I stick to my comment! Fact is Plateau....The tribe does not let "Anyone" fish off there platforms on the Icicle.....and if you are going to sit there and say that is your stand....then yes I will call BS! And if anyone on here wants to say they believe your statement.....then we will just have to have them show up on any given day during the spring Chinook season....walk up onto the platforms and start fishing...and see what happens to them!! First off, it is illegal for any WHITE man to fish within' 400' for the hatchery.....second, a WHITE man walking up the bank from the boat launch parking area is immediately approached by tribesman as asked what they want, then normally asked how much they want to buy fish for, they are not welcomed there with open arms....oh, that is after wading through the mounds of trash to get there! I was born and raised on that river, in the town it runs through..... This is the way it is.....and the way it has been since they started fishing at the hatchery....
But if you honestly believe they are welcoming White men onto those platforms Plateau.....maybe we could meet up there next year unannounced....get a volunteer to walk up there and start fishing....so you can see what happens......

I would love to meet face to face and that offer has been extended to more than a few on here but don't tell anyone because when I made an offer like that before I was attacked for trying to "call people out" or sound tough or whatever else they wanted to say and if you want to meet and its genuine then by all means lets do it. 

As I have said before I'm not trying to intimidate nor threaten and if we plan on meeting it will always be with my wife and kids because I take them everywhere. 

And to correct your post I NEVER said they were MY scaffolds, I said they would allow people to use them as long as you didn't piss them off.  I know the family of one of the scaffolds and they don't care who uses it as long as you don't piss them off and share with others.

Also your comment about the White Man being approached and not welcomed goes the same way for me and my family whenever we are on Ceded Land.  My story in the "elk hunting" section "Goose Prairie Tag" was positive because I made it positive. 

Maybe I should've inserted the portion of the group of back packers that were hollering around at me because I had my rifle slung around my back and I was off the reservation.  You think I want my children to witness this?  No, I don't but as long as they yell around then so be it, but the second I feel any threat towards me or my family you better believe I will do what it takes to protect my family.  Uncle Sam gave me some skills and Law Enforcement honed them and I will use them to defend my wife and children with extreme prejudice against any one that threatens them.  Color or ethnicity does not matter when it comes to my wife and children.

If you seek a civil meet and greet then by all means I'm for it and maybe we can get a better understanding of one another but if you want a complain and whine session then don't bother wasting your time.

[Yak-NDN]

I was told the same thing that they don't care if people fish off the platforms in Drano.

[remington300mag]

Plateau,

Yep, got no problem meeting you.....I live right over here by the Icicle, any time you are over this way, let me know. It would be a great chance to talk about what goes on over here on this little river.....I don't take your post as threatening and am surely not intimidated.
Now, you said you were correcting my post about you owning a scaffold, sorry to say but I just reread my posts and I never said anything like that..... but I do know a few people that do. I will leave last names out of it, but GREG and Aaron for instance. I have known Greg, who fishes the hatchery on the Icicle for the opener through July, with his brothers, wife, kids, cousins....and so on, for the last few years.  They never leave, basically living there in their tents. Even have made runs to Wenatchee to get him suppies. Met Aaron out there as well and have talked hunting and fishing with him a few times! So, believe it or not but I have first hand experience of how it works there.....
It seems to me in your post you start talking about an altercation you had in the woods....then start talking about things like race.....My post didn't have to do with race as much as setting the record straight......You said and I Quote "Some up at Icicle will let anybody fish on them but the second you piss them off or try to claim it they will kick you off"
This statement is untrue.....Now, they may let other tribesmen onto their platforms.....but not a white man.....nor can they let a white man on them....nor could a white man fish off them if he was allowed. There are stories of guys that didn't know the river that weren't even on the platforms but behond the sign that were threatened....yelled at....and had things thrown at them..... Even though I have what I would call friends up there fishing, I have been told that it isn't a good idea to go over unless I call first......but again that isn't what I was getting at..... What I was getting at and the point of me posting was setting the record straight about them allowing "anybody" fish off their platforms...... This simply is not true! Maybe they would if they could....but at this point it does not happen.....
If you would like to talk further Plateau....you can PM me if you like....

SAM

[cannon-master]

ya know i really dont want to ad to the storm but i think its crap they can put them up all over the place in there and to tell you the honest truth 90 percent of those are built in areas that are a foot deep and wont catch any fish off of them so they wont use them at all so they will rot fall into the water and leave an even bigger mess they will treat it like any other place they are given they will turn it into a garbage dump and heaven forbid you pick up there empty beer cans you will be arested for illeagaly taking indian artifacts ive fished there for over thirty years from the bank and the boat and now im afraid i cant fish it anymore from the bank because there is no place to fish without feeling the urge to set them ablaze well i have a lot more to complain about but will leave it for another day

[huntergreg]

ya know i really dont want to ad to the storm but i think its crap they can put them up all over the place in there and to tell you the honest truth 90 percent of those are built in areas that are a foot deep and wont catch any fish off of them so they wont use them at all so they will rot fall into the water and leave an even bigger mess they will treat it like any other place they are given they will turn it into a garbage dump and heaven forbid you pick up there empty beer cans you will be arested for illeagaly taking indian artifacts ive fished there for over thirty years from the bank and the boat and now im afraid i cant fish it anymore from the bank because there is no place to fish without feeling the urge to set them ablaze well i have a lot more to complain about but will leave it for another day

I was told by a sheriff the other night while he was doing boat checks at the dock. He told me that they were not going to do gill netting in Drano anymore. He said they herd all the fish to those scaffolding and they use a 4-5 foot hoop net . All the fish storm into the net trying to get away and they raise it up and unload all the fish into there boats/trucks. I couldn't figure out why they put them in shallow water either until I talked to him.

[Yak-NDN]

The water is deeper in the spring and at night the are in the shallow water. Just info for you.