Post by: mjtbackcountry on September 24, 2012, 08:02:38 AM
Post by: sled on September 24, 2012, 08:10:37 AM
Post by: Bigtine96 on September 24, 2012, 08:14:01 AM
Post by: Hunter Dug on September 24, 2012, 08:21:30 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 24, 2012, 08:25:16 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 24, 2012, 08:28:00 AM
This is going to get good.
:yeah:
I'm sure that bull will go to a well deserving sovereign nation family who will thank the gods for the bountiful harvest... :rolleyes: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
it probably did? :dunno:
The only reason it sucked was because he had the right to shot it and you didnt. Personally I feel that all you are doing is harrassing the game if your plan is not to shot them and just play with there minds. Lettem make babies so other people have thier chance.
Couldn't agree more. Just think, if you hadn't been bugling him to the road maybe he'd still be alive, so in essence you're partly to blame, since you contributed to his death.
Sh!t happens.....
:yeah: :yeah:
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 24, 2012, 08:35:53 AM
Post by: coachcw on September 24, 2012, 08:40:25 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 24, 2012, 08:45:41 AM
dont you guys rember in the history books all the indians driving around shooting elk with high powered rifles that they baught with casino money that white man gave them ? :bash:
:chuckle: In some places it would be the Asian people people gave them money and down here it's the mexican people giving us money so it differs from region-to-region. :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: And again, if he hadn't been bugling for fun from the road this bull would more than likely still be alive.
Post by: buglebuster on September 24, 2012, 08:49:08 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 24, 2012, 08:53:04 AM
What GMU was this?
Post by: Bigtine96 on September 24, 2012, 08:55:13 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 24, 2012, 09:03:18 AM
Whats wrong with going out and bugling in a bull if you can't draw a tag and want to go out and enjoy the elk during the best time of the year!!? So its this guys fault that a indian was driving and saw the bull and shot it...? Right sounds like a very logical explanation
I said it was partly his fault, not all. If he wants to go out and educate elk then do it in the woods not from the road. Sure, they would've probably got an elk somewhere else but by sitting on the road calling one in you just made it that much easier for them they didn't have to do anything but drive by you bugling and sit in their trucks and wait.
Get off the road and this wouldn't have happened.
Post by: coachcw on September 24, 2012, 09:08:54 AM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on September 24, 2012, 09:12:28 AM
:jacked: sorry i had to before it got to serious and locked :chuckle:
Post by: Bigtine96 on September 24, 2012, 09:15:10 AM
just remember its always whiteys fault !
Always seems to be..
So hes educating the elk, but the indians I see in the clock driving roads and calling out the window are helping the elk? I wish the elk were more educated. Then it would take a actual hunter to get out there and harvest one.
Post by: mjtbackcountry on September 24, 2012, 09:20:45 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 24, 2012, 09:53:04 AM
just remember its always whiteys fault !
Always seems to be..
So hes educating the elk, but the indians I see in the clock driving roads and calling out the window are helping the elk? I wish the elk were more educated. Then it would take a actual hunter to get out there and harvest one.
I never said they were helping elk, i just stated the obvious. You call an elk that close to a road and you know there's indians that hunt the area and yet, you expect a different outcome? :dunno: This is exactly why I hunt hunt at least a couple of miles from the road, that way I don't feel pissed about some lazy a$$ road hunting harvesting the elk I worked my butt off for.
I wasnt driving around calling I was in the timber. No I didnt get it on film the bull was still two hundred yds away from me they bailed off the road from above.
So they pulled over and shot the bull then walked in to get it? Other than being road hunters and jumping on an opportunity you provided I don't see anything to bitch about.
Post by: huntandjeep on September 24, 2012, 04:04:50 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on September 24, 2012, 04:16:00 PM
Post by: C-Money on September 24, 2012, 04:38:20 PM
Post by: mtman on September 24, 2012, 06:54:06 PM
Post by: The Weazle on September 24, 2012, 07:10:32 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on September 24, 2012, 07:21:55 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on September 24, 2012, 07:24:11 PM
Bummer for the bull but congrats to the hunter, assuming it was harvested within the legal means to do so of course.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 24, 2012, 07:26:31 PM
Sorry, I was thinking of the noocksack thread not sure about this animal.
Post by: royalbull on September 24, 2012, 08:21:27 PM
dont you guys rember in the history books all the indians driving around shooting elk with high powered rifles that they baught with casino money that white man gave them ? :bash:
as far as I'm concerned real white men dont go to indian casinos, smoke shops, bingo halls, or be guided by an indian to fish on certain rivers, all I got too say
Post by: Fowlweather25 on September 24, 2012, 08:44:11 PM
Sounds like somebody needs to stop lending his stuff out to natives and then hed have nothing to worry about. And yes, a littlke grammar can go a long way in helping prove your point.According to the OP it was legally harvested with a tag[S/].
Sorry, I was thinking of the noocksack thread not sure about this animal.
Grammar? Hmmm.
Post by: BowBender87 on September 24, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 24, 2012, 09:23:38 PM
Post by: xXLojackXx on September 24, 2012, 09:44:54 PM
Post by: sled on September 24, 2012, 10:00:13 PM
For anyone who questions that drive through your local reservation. Nuf said.
Post by: fair-chase on September 24, 2012, 10:05:03 PM
Seriously though, for such a short original post it sure covers a lot of topics. My :twocents: on the subjects...
Calling elk in the off season: Good for you. You're out enjoying nature and interacting with animals. What more could a guy ask for. Have at it. Sure you may inadvertently educate one or two in the process. So what. That's such a small inconsequential amount of the total elk population that it shouldn't matter to anyone. Maybe those naysayers think we should ban all video and photographs taken of elk in the rut unless they themselves are hunting them. Because after all it may interfere with their hunt. It's a selfish argument for anyone to want to keep you out of the woods enjoying nature. Brush it off and head back out there.
The Kill: I don't have a favorable view of some of the activities of tribal hunters; But in this particular instance I see no reason to begrudge them. This time of year it could have just as easily have been someone with a special permit as a native. Had this been in the off season or wintering range then yes, by all means flame away. But for an elk to be shot during the middle of the season (open for whites or not) is the least inflammatory complaint I've ever heard about native hunting.
Road Hunting: Let's face it, it's what the majority of hunters do wether they be native or not. If your within spotting scope view of a road it's highly possible someone is watching you or the same animals as you. This is easily solved by dropping into a drainage or hole that is unseen by any road. Hunting is usually much better this way anyhow.
Native Hunting: :bash: I loath it, but there is nothing that I can say or do on this forum that will make it any better or solve this problem. It will just lead to anger and high blood pressure so I'm going to sit this one out.
Again, just my :twocents:
Post by: Fowlweather25 on September 24, 2012, 10:49:42 PM
Fowl, I know I know, I did the same thing but, my fat fingers tend to hit extra buttons when I'm typing on my blackberry. Fat fingers and little buttons just don't mix. I was making edits myself but obviously I missed a couple but, at least I attmepted to correct them rather than keep it the way it is? They need to hurry and make cellphones big like those ipads or something so I can see and fit my fingers on the buttons. :chuckle:I was just giving you a hard time, no harm intended. The two letters being close together makes it easy for that to happen. Just thought it was kinda funny.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on September 25, 2012, 08:39:47 AM
A bull would of been shot by him reguardless, you just made it easier for him.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 25, 2012, 09:09:42 AM
I know some people have problems with people going out and bugling.. I know it sucks if you are hunting and someone ruins your hunt by doing that but thats how it goes. It is their right just as much as yours to be out in the woods and bugle. I do it all the time because I am hunting with a camera instead of a weapon. In the long run guys that go out and bugle you could consider teachers because they are prolonging that elks life by educating them. LOL
A bull would of been shot by him reguardless, you just made it easier for him.
well said and I agree with the last post as well. I'm not against calling or filming because I enjoy watching those videos but, it's funny how this situation is upsetting and blown out of proportion. Just be where road hunters won't be and the problem solves itself.
Wow, just wow. :chuckle:
Seriously though, for such a short original post it sure covers a lot of topics. My :twocents: on the subjects...
Calling elk in the off season: Good for you. You're out enjoying nature and interacting with animals. What more could a guy ask for. Have at it. Sure you may inadvertently educate one or two in the process. So what. That's such a small inconsequential amount of the total elk population that it shouldn't matter to anyone. Maybe those naysayers think we should ban all video and photographs taken of elk in the rut unless they themselves are hunting them. Because after all it may interfere with their hunt. It's a selfish argument for anyone to want to keep you out of the woods enjoying nature. Brush it off and head back out there.
The Kill: I don't have a favorable view of some of the activities of tribal hunters; But in this particular instance I see no reason to begrudge them. This time of year it could have just as easily have been someone with a special permit as a native. Had this been in the off season or wintering range then yes, by all means flame away. But for an elk to be shot during the middle of the season (open for whites or not) is the least inflammatory complaint I've ever heard about native hunting.
Road Hunting: Let's face it, it's what the majority of hunters do wether they be native or not. If your within spotting scope view of a road it's highly possible someone is watching you or the same animals as you. This is easily solved by dropping into a drainage or hole that is unseen by any road. Hunting is usually much better this way anyhow. :tup: :tup:
Native Hunting: :bash: I loath it, but there is nothing that I can say or do on this forum that will make it any better or solve this problem. It will just lead to anger and high blood pressure so I'm going to sit this one out.
Again, just my :twocents:
Some good stuff in here as well and agree with some but, not all.
Most natives have no respect for the animals and land they live on. There for they dont care if they decimate the herds. I'd say some but not most, this again comes back to the bad apple in every category discussion.
For anyone who questions that drive through your local reservation. Can't really argue with this one to much because there are a lot of native families that don't care for their yards but, then again, majority of the population down here at least is not tribal members. Nuf said.
Fowl, I know I know, I did the same thing but, my fat fingers tend to hit extra buttons when I'm typing on my blackberry. Fat fingers and little buttons just don't mix. I was making edits myself but obviously I missed a couple but, at least I attmepted to correct them rather than keep it the way it is? They need to hurry and make cellphones big like those ipads or something so I can see and fit my fingers on the buttons. :chuckle:I was just giving you a hard time, no harm intended. The two letters being close together makes it easy for that to happen. Just thought it was kinda funny.
:tup: :chuckle: I know you were.
The biggest issue I have is the westside tribes hunting east of the cascades and pretty much everybody on here knows my stance. If I see them I'll attempt to stop and detain and report them because regardless of what they say they are breaking our laws of the Yakama Nation and our Council has already sent them a warning about hunting on this side of the cascades.
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 11:06:49 AM
***edited for content***
And when does it ever end? When do we all finally become equal? When can we all go by the same standard?
And by the way, if i have spelling and grammer errors I blame it on my great great grandpa's spelling teacher who's family was conquered by a small tribe of mis-spellers!
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 25, 2012, 11:32:14 AM
Take for example the ban on hunting bear with hounds. How is a hound hunter legally running dogs and killing bears for a timber company any different than a native legally shooting an elk or deer?
The average Joe hunter cannot run a pack of hounds to harvest his/her one or two bear a year without risking fines, loss of equipment, hunting licenses, etc. Yet, the hound hunters are running and killing several bears a year for timber compainies.
Are each and every one of those bears brought out and processed? Where does the meat go? Is it because elk & deer are more popular, so there are more emotions in play? Is it because the hound hunters run in the spring & summer behind locked gates and thus just stay off the radar?
Just something that I have been wondering about for awhile now, as I read all the posts with complaints and such regarding the natives doing things the "rest" of us can't.
Note: I acknowledge that there are and always will be those that push the limits or outright break the laws, always has been and sadly, always will...regardless of race or heritage.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 12:55:57 PM
Post by: ellensburgpo on September 25, 2012, 01:01:56 PM
If you go back 300 years or so there isnt one person on this web page who doesnt come from a family that was conquered somewhere. Why dont the rest of us get special deals. Our families are still in shock and need therapy for the mistreatment we all got in the past two to five hundred years.
As for them being able to hunt because there fore-fathers did, all I can say to that is my fore-fathers hunted Indians so why cant I do that!
The whole thing is a crock of crap!
And when does it ever end? When do we all finally become equal? When can we all go by the same standard?
And by the way, if i have spelling and grammer errors I blame it on my great great grandpa's spelling teacher who's family was conquered by a small tribe of mis-spellers!
I've been seriously considering sueing the ancestors of the Carthaginians for what they did to my family back in the day.... :sas:
Post by: Odell on September 25, 2012, 01:11:20 PM
I am curious about something, sorry if this is viewed as jacking the thread, but the question I have is, why is it such an emotionally charged subject regarding natives hunting or fishing, when they are legally allowed to?
Take for example the ban on hunting bear with hounds. How is a hound hunter legally running dogs and killing bears for a timber company any different than a native legally shooting an elk or deer?
The average Joe hunter cannot run a pack of hounds to harvest his/her one or two bear a year without risking fines, loss of equipment, hunting licenses, etc. Yet, the hound hunters are running and killing several bears a year for timber compainies.
Are each and every one of those bears brought out and processed? Where does the meat go? Is it because elk & deer are more popular, so there are more emotions in play? Is it because the hound hunters run in the spring & summer behind locked gates and thus just stay off the radar?
Just something that I have been wondering about for awhile now, as I read all the posts with complaints and such regarding the natives doing things the "rest" of us can't.
Note: I acknowledge that there are and always will be those that push the limits or outright break the laws, always has been and sadly, always will...regardless of race or heritage.
Because those bear hunts don't negatively affect the population or the OPPORTUNITY to hunt bears. I can hunt bears every year in any part of the state, just not with dogs. But Bull tags are few and far between, highly regulated in time allowed and weapon. And the tribal take further limits that opportunity and is damaging the population. If the tribes were only allowed a few animals, with the state regulating that use and they got to use a rifle where I only used a bow (ironic) then you might have a point. Your comparison is nowhere close to the same thing.
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 01:14:09 PM
well this is only the first thread of the year like this with more to come im sure. my family harvested a nice bull that has a real cool story to go along with it that will probably never get shared on here because of the hate and discontent associated with native hunting. kinda sad because i was waiting to see how the threads throughout the fall would play out. now i know im prob not gonna post a story. :twocents:
If the story goes like what I have seen than it might go like this.
Woke up this morning late and let the kids skip school like most days. Got into the new truck I bought yesterday and went and checked the gill nets at my private ramp paid for by the tax payers. Got a flat tire on the way home and left the truck on the side of the road and bought a new one. Stopped off by the Hanford Site and cut the fence. Drove through the native sage and wildlands. Chased a heard of elk into the fence corner and shot a half dozen. Cut the horns off the big ones because the Bulls are on the tough side. Threw the Cows in the back and headed home to watch the big game and drink some brewskies. (Still wondering how my ancestors did it without the truck, big TV & football game, and brewskies). Got home and had a big party because my royalty check from the Casino came in the same day my welfare check came (imagine the odds of that happening). got on the web and got pissed off at all the comments on the forum over Indians getting special treatment.
Post by: Gringo31 on September 25, 2012, 01:27:30 PM
I haven't seen too many new trucks that natives are driving....
But, that being said. I'd like to read your story and see your pic igotbigbulls! One way or another, whether people want to fight about this forever or not, in the end, we will need to find a way to work together on this. Calling ALL Indians a bunch of lazy, poaching, etc, etc, etc is NOT going to improve anything and discourages the guys that do care and willing to fix any issues that there may be. Us white guys as a whole are not exactly the model citizens. Just go for a drive on opening day modern elk. It is crazy!
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 25, 2012, 01:32:00 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,106006.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,106006.0.html)
Looking forward to hear what opinions are on the subject and what perspective it is viewed from.
Post by: CedarPants on September 25, 2012, 01:46:23 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 03:05:48 PM
well this is only the first thread of the year like this with more to come im sure. my family harvested a nice bull that has a real cool story to go along with it that will probably never get shared on here because of the hate and discontent associated with native hunting. kinda sad because i was waiting to see how the threads throughout the fall would play out. now i know im prob not gonna post a story. :twocents:
If the story goes like what I have seen than it might go like this.
Woke up this morning late and let the kids skip school like most days. Got into the new truck I bought yesterday and went and checked the gill nets at my private ramp paid for by the tax payers. Got a flat tire on the way home and left the truck on the side of the road and bought a new one. Stopped off by the Hanford Site and cut the fence. Drove through the native sage and wildlands. Chased a heard of elk into the fence corner and shot a half dozen. Cut the horns off the big ones because the Bulls are on the tough side. Threw the Cows in the back and headed home to watch the big game and drink some brewskies. (Still wondering how my ancestors did it without the truck, big TV & football game, and brewskies). Got home and had a big party because my royalty check from the Casino came in the same day my welfare check came (imagine the odds of that happening). got on the web and got pissed off at all the comments on the forum over Indians getting special treatment.
pretty harsh considering i work at the same place you do. but i did manage to shoot that nice bull your wife was gonna try to shoot with her dayton tag this year. :chuckle:
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 03:38:33 PM
Quote
pretty harsh considering i work at the same place you do. but i did manage to shoot that nice bull your wife was gonna try to shoot with her dayton tag this year. :chuckle:
This isn't a personnel thing. I am sure there are a lot of Native Americans that do the right thing but just put yourself in my shoes. As our tags go through the roof in price, our access to hunting areas dwindle, and our quota for permits goes down it is very upsetting. when I drive down the river and see a new boat launch and park that was paid for by my taxes and license fees that is posted for Indians only and locked up and then try to catch a salmon that every year requires a new stamp or fee and see all of the gill nets crossing the river what do you expect me to think? When my wife puts if for a hunt for over 9 years and finally draws a tag and the area is already been hunted by the same guys that got to hunt it last year and before the season starts, what do you want me to think? When I travel up to the Colville area and drive through the reservation every year and see vehicles (multiple and many) left on the side of the road and have the law agency tell me that when they quit running they just leave them there and get another, what do you want me to think? When my son draws a youth Silver Dollar ranch cow permit and the land owner tells me that they are closing everything down and he doesn't get to hunt because some natives cut the Hanford site fence and chased some animals into there property and trespassed shooting a couple and driving on there fields, what do you want me to think? When I went stealhead and salmon fishing I had to follow the single hook on my lure requirement. While I was fishing some native Americans showed up and fished just down from me with weighted huge treble hooks trying to snag them and the locals told me they could, what do you want me to think? When my son put in for a certain college with high grades and high test scores and was told no when others where let in because they had lower test scores and grades but where native American, what do you want me to think?
Is there a pattern to what I am saying? Just put yourself in my shoes and reverse the rolls. You would be furious. You can tell yourself all you want that you wouldn't be but I guarantee you would! Once again its nothing personnel but in the end will be no good for all involved.
Once again i ask, how long do people deserve special treatment. I thought we where all equal or so our founding fathers told us. When does it ever equal out and end? I don't want special favors and am not asking for them I just want an even and equal playing field. Is that to much to ask for?
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 03:42:29 PM
Quote
pretty harsh considering i work at the same place you do. but i did manage to shoot that nice bull your wife was gonna try to shoot with her dayton tag this year. :chuckle:
This isn't a personnel thing. I am sure there are a lot of Native Americans that do the right thing but just put yourself in my shoes. As our tags go through the roof in price, our access to hunting areas dwindle, and our quota for permits goes down it is very upsetting. when I drive down the river and see a new boat launch and park that was paid for by my taxes and license fees that is posted for Indians only and locked up and then try to catch a salmon that every year requires a new stamp or fee and see all of the gill nets crossing the river what do you expect me to think? When my wife puts if for a hunt for over 9 years and finally draws a tag and the area is already been hunted by the same guys that got to hunt it last year and before the season starts, what do you want me to think? When I travel up to the Colville area and drive through the reservation every year and see vehicles (multiple and many) left on the side of the road and have the law agency tell me that when they quit running they just leave them there and get another, what do you want me to think? When my son draws a youth Silver Dollar ranch cow permit and the land owner tells me that they are closing everything down and he doesn't get to hunt because some natives cut the Hanford site fence and chased some animals into there property and trespassed shooting a couple and driving on there fields, what do you want me to think? When I went stealhead and salmon fishing I had to follow the single hook on my lure requirement. While I was fishing some native Americans showed up and fished just down from me with weighted huge treble hooks trying to snag them and the locals told me they could, what do you want me to think? When my son put in for a certain college with high grades and high test scores and was told no when others where let in because they had lower test scores and grades but where native American, what do you want me to think?
Is there a pattern to what I am saying? Just put yourself in my shoes and reverse the rolls. You would be furious. You can tell yourself all you want that you wouldn't be but I guarantee you would! Once again its nothing personnel but in the end will be no good for all involved.
Once again i ask, how long do people deserve special treatment. I thought we where all equal or so our founding fathers told us. When does it ever equal out and end? I don't want special favors and am not asking for them I just want an even and equal playing field. Is that to much to ask for?
not to much to ask for but the power is on the paper the Treaties are written on. The governments have to change it if they want a change. So if you had the same rights would you give them up to make it fair for everyone else?
Post by: sled on September 25, 2012, 03:45:25 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 03:49:35 PM
The excuse you get is that its only a few bad apples. For some reason they cant understand that EVERYONE should have the same equal hunting rights
No excuses from me. I have nothing to be ashamed of or excused from. I hunt by the regs I'm provided with.
Post by: Woodchuck on September 25, 2012, 03:51:51 PM
The excuse you get is that its only a few bad apples. For some reason they cant understand that EVERYONE should have the same equal hunting rightsSo no more anterless tags for kids under 16? Disabled shooting from the road?
I don't do get to do these things.
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 04:04:12 PM
I dont know how to respond to that only than to say "WOW". I have said my piece and you cant talk sense to a dog that licks his nuts just because he can. I know have one more statement to go along with my others that ended in "What do you want me to think?"The excuse you get is that its only a few bad apples. For some reason they cant understand that EVERYONE should have the same equal hunting rights
No excuses from me. I have nothing to be ashamed of or excused from. I hunt by the regs I'm provided with.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 04:10:26 PM
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
I dont know how to respond to that only than to say "WOW". I have said my piece and you cant talk sense to a dog that licks his nuts just because he can. I know have one more statement to go along with my others that ended in "What do you want me to think?"The excuse you get is that its only a few bad apples. For some reason they cant understand that EVERYONE should have the same equal hunting rights
No excuses from me. I have nothing to be ashamed of or excused from. I hunt by the regs I'm provided with.
Hittler killed 6 million jews because he could, Sadam Hussain raped and pillaged his people because he could, I could go on and on. Just because you can does not meen it is right. It is not you personally i am haveing a problem with it is the system. Any time you have an advantage that you would loath if the roles where reversed is something you your self and others should think long and hard about
Post by: mtman on September 25, 2012, 04:45:39 PM
Post by: fair-chase on September 25, 2012, 05:51:56 PM
Some good stuff in here as well and agree with some but, not all.
Oh Plat. You don't have to hide the fact that you agree with me 100%. I'm sure deep down your also wanting to trade in all of your ducks gear for some crimson too. It's ok, we'll understand. There's no need to feel ashamed anymore. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 07:27:04 PM
I dont know how to respond to that only than to say "WOW". I have said my piece and you cant talk sense to a dog that licks his nuts just because he can. I know have one more statement to go along with my others that ended in "What do you want me to think?"The excuse you get is that its only a few bad apples. For some reason they cant understand that EVERYONE should have the same equal hunting rights
No excuses from me. I have nothing to be ashamed of or excused from. I hunt by the regs I'm provided with.
Hittler killed 6 million jews because he could, Sadam Hussain raped and pillaged his people because he could, I could go on and on. Just because you can does not meen it is right. It is not you personally i am haveing a problem with it is the system. Any time you have an advantage that you would loath if the roles where reversed is something you your self and others should think long and hard about
pretty sensitive im guessing, sheesh. all the crap you spew on here about comparing two horrible human beings to a group of people that have retained the right to hunt, fish and gather in their usual and accustomed areas is crazy. we are talking hunting. so i raise the question about YOUR rules and regulations since you insist on this is about being fair. is it fair that some are able to draw multiple quality tags in their lifetime while some never get a chance at a quality animal? just curious on your thoughts about this.
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 08:12:11 PM
pretty sensitive I'm guessing, sheesh. all the crap you spew on here about comparing two horrible human beings to a group of people that have retained the right to hunt, fish and gather in their usual and accustomed areas is crazy. we are talking hunting. so i raise the question about YOUR rules and regulations since you insist on this is about being fair. is it fair that some are able to draw multiple quality tags in their lifetime while some never get a chance at a quality animal? just curious on your thoughts about this.
[/quote]
OK so I need to apologize. You caught me on a day of ranting and I guess i just went over the edge. I do truly think that if you really thought long and hard about it and you were in my shoes you would be just as upset about the whole thing, but it would take a new way of looking at it. One of the hardest things to deal with also is not just all of the opportunity you are getting is the fact that we (Sportsmen) are funding it. Its one thing to not agree with something, but to half to flip the bill also is alot to stomach.
As for the quality tags, I would support the Wyoming draw method. Montana this year has went to it also. It is the only fair way to distribute permits and still have low point people put in for the draw. 75% of there quality permits are given to those with the most points. If there is 20 permits let say and the highest point put in lets say 16 and there are 6 people with 16 points than they all get a permit. if there was 10 people putting in with 15 points than they would all get permits. If there was 20 people with 14 points the 20 would have a drawing just amoungst themselves for the last 4 permits. Than the following year the 16 people that would now have 15 points would be drawn for sure and so on. The remainder of the permits (25%) would go into a random draw for all those who put in from 1 to 14 points that didn't get drawn. this needs to happend to keep people putting in. For instance if you drew the tag with 16 points and you knew it would take another 16 years to get drawn you might just decide not to put in any more and the state would loose the revenue (remember that for the state its all about money). This would solve your problem with some people never getting drawn with high points. For example, my daughter drew a Dayton big bull permit in 2006 and shot a nice 6 point bull. In 2010 with only 2 points she drew a Observatory big bull permit and shot another nice 6 point bull. As much as I like to see her get the permits it isn't right. The year she got her bull in 2010 I stopped and talked to an old guy that had been putting if for over 14 years. he was in his 70's. He should have gotten that permit and not my daughter. We live in a state where there is way more people than animals and habitat. Most hunters will never shoot a 6 point bull even if they hunt hard all of their lives. My daughter shot two by the time she was 18. How many big bulls have you and your family shot in the last 5 to 10 years?
I know all of my life I have been taught that life isn't fair. My father told me that fair is where you go to see the pigs and goats. But when it is so blatantly unbalanced things need to change. Change is painfull and I have come to the conclusion on this issue that it never will be changed because the voice of the people are easily persuaded and the uninformed will make the decision on this. Just like the bear issue. Show a couple of cute little bear pictures to the liberals in Seattle and using dogs legally in this state will never come back again. We need to remember if it was up to most, hunting would be outlawed all together but there need for are revenue is way to big so they choose to turn their head and take our money for their social programs. Just think of what kind of fishing and hunting we would have if all of our revenue was pumped back into the system and not into Washington State General Fund. Well enough ranting from me for the night.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2012, 08:45:52 PM
Post by: stuckalot on September 26, 2012, 08:52:26 AM
I for one would appreciate hearing the story, understand your position however.
While I share many of dvolmers frustrations, I'll narrow down to one issue of great concern to me, and it is more of a safety issue than anything.
As a bowhunter, I have flinched many times hearing rifle shots too close for comfort while I'm hiding in the brush somewhere doing my best to conceal myself, while a possibly completely legal native hunter is running around the woods with his rifle shooting at the same animals I am trying to lure in close enough to shoot with a bow!
I know of one incident this year where someone was just about to draw on a spike, when someone with a rifle shot the large bull that was in the herd with them, do you suppose they knew the bow hunter was within bow range of the elk they just shot?
Is there any room for any progress on these issues or are we just going to continue to beat our heads against the wall?
Post by: stuckalot on September 26, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2012, 09:19:04 AM
i for one would like to see if anything to first start with some type of harvest reporting for all game not just some of the game by our tribe. it would actually be nice to see the numbers
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 26, 2012, 09:20:55 AM
bigbulls,
I for one would appreciate hearing the story, understand your position however. I hope he shares the story someday but, I do understand if he does not want to. Even I debated on sharing the bull I harvested last year and even when I did share the story and pics I shared it in the now "sym" board so if there were any that wanted to share their negative comments the general population wouldn't have to see it all. It is a very nice bull
While I share many of dvolmers frustrations, I'll narrow down to one issue of great concern to me, and it is more of a safety issue than anything.
As a bowhunter, I have flinched many times hearing rifle shots too close for comfort while I'm hiding in the brush somewhere doing my best to conceal myself, while a possibly completely legal native hunter is running around the woods with his rifle shooting at the same animals I am trying to lure in close enough to shoot with a bow!
I know of one incident this year where someone was just about to draw on a spike, when someone with a rifle shot the large bull that was in the herd with them, do you suppose they knew the bow hunter was within bow range of the elk they just shot?
Is there any room for any progress on these issues or are we just going to continue to beat our heads against the wall? in my opinion there is room but, it's going to take time. Nothing happens over night and as long as there are those that keep pushing for change continue to do so than there is hope that things will work themselves out.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 26, 2012, 09:21:53 AM
It is my understanding that the tribes have broad latitude to set seasons and rules, my question/frustration is why don't they set more "responsible" seasons and rules, instead of the seemingly no holds barred rules?
some tribes do have very stringent rules and regs and very few are like what you're referring to.
Post by: buck man on September 27, 2012, 01:00:33 AM
It is my understanding that the tribes have broad latitude to set seasons and rules, my question/frustration is why don't they set more "responsible" seasons and rules, instead of the seemingly no holds barred rules?
some tribes do have very stringent rules and regs and very few are like what you're referring to.
Very true plat. Unfortunately it's not the yaks or the umatillas. The colvilles and spokanes do a good job IMHO at managing their game. Their herds are all stable or growing. We owe alot of our elk in 121 to the spokanes.
O
Post by: boneaddict on September 27, 2012, 05:45:23 AM
Quote
So idk about you guys but after archery season ill go into units that arnt open for muzzeloader and call in bulls and get the on film. Well Saturday I had a bull going and ended up geting intercepted and shot by an indian with a rifle they heard him bugling while driving down the rode. Im pretty sick about the whole situation. Does anybody else call in bulls for fun? Ever had this happen?
I have actually been hunted by tribal folks several times. There was a time in my life I actually enjoyed *censored*ing with them becasue they'd spend their evening hunting me instead of killing bulls. I think somewhere along the way, a light came on and I realized how dangerous that was.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 27, 2012, 09:45:32 AM
It is my understanding that the tribes have broad latitude to set seasons and rules, my question/frustration is why don't they set more "responsible" seasons and rules, instead of the seemingly no holds barred rules?
some tribes do have very stringent rules and regs and very few are like what you're referring to.
Very true plat. Unfortunately it's not the yaks or the umatillas. The colvilles and spokanes do a good job IMHO at managing their game. Their herds are all stable or growing. We owe alot of our elk in 121 to the spokanes.
O
:tup: Actually the Umatillas have a pretty good big game management rules and regs. It's more aligned with the Colvilles on permits and harvesting then it is with ours or other area Tribes.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 27, 2012, 09:47:39 AM
QuoteSo idk about you guys but after archery season ill go into units that arnt open for muzzeloader and call in bulls and get the on film. Well Saturday I had a bull going and ended up geting intercepted and shot by an indian with a rifle they heard him bugling while driving down the rode. Im pretty sick about the whole situation. Does anybody else call in bulls for fun? Ever had this happen?
I have actually been hunted by tribal folks several times. There was a time in my life I actually enjoyed *censored* with them becasue they'd spend their evening hunting me instead of killing bulls. I think somewhere along the way, a light came on and I realized how dangerous that was.
I know the feeling and i've messed around with other hunters as well. As I mentioned before the bull I harvested last year was being tracked by another hunter who was only about 50 yards behind it when I shot it and we were both lucky that he was at an angle away from my firing lane.
Post by: mebco09 on September 29, 2012, 09:27:08 AM
as far as the regs go this is all i can do is post what there is to follow http://www.umatilla.nsn.us/hunting%20regulations.pdf (http://www.umatilla.nsn.us/hunting%20regulations.pdf)
i for one would like to see if anything to first start with some type of harvest reporting for all game not just some of the game by our tribe. it would actually be nice to see the numbers
I hate to say it, but the Umatilla regs are pretty reasonable. If all the tribes had regulations like that, I think the Indian bashing on this site would stop. Who enforces tribal regs in the field?
Post by: motcha on September 29, 2012, 12:18:38 PM
Post by: wannabhntr on September 29, 2012, 06:15:55 PM
MtMan, you should use a spelling and grammar check prior to posting. You sound like an uneducated redneck!:yeah: :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on September 29, 2012, 06:44:28 PM
dont you guys rember in the history books all the indians driving around shooting elk with high powered rifles that they baught with casino money that white man gave them ? :bash:
:chuckle: In some places it would be the Asian people people gave them money and down here it's the mexican people giving us money so it differs from region-to-region. :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: And again, if he hadn't been bugling for fun from the road this bull would more than likely still be alive.
Hahaha! Here in Central WA the white guys give everyone else their money.
Post by: dvolmer on September 29, 2012, 08:51:41 PM
How can that be good game management?
Post by: HairTrigger on September 30, 2012, 01:34:40 AM
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :cryriver: :cryriver: :cryriver: :cryriver:
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 30, 2012, 08:03:15 PM
Post by: logger on September 30, 2012, 08:34:07 PM
Post by: ribka on September 30, 2012, 08:45:13 PM
ya man where u been hair? lol
4 bull elk were shot and left to rot by tribal members using 22 mag in the Wenas last year on private land.
The tribe id'd the shooters and no enforcement/ court action was taken
I think this lack of action outlines the tribes total lack of ethics regarding enforcing the law.
prove me wrong.
Post by: mfswallace on September 30, 2012, 08:48:41 PM
ya man where u been hair? lol
4 bull elk were shot and left to rot by tribal members using 22 mag in the Wenas last year on private land.
The tribe id'd the shooters and no enforcement/ court action was taken
I think this lack of action outlines the tribes total lack of ethics regarding enforcing the law.
prove me wrong.
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: motcha on September 30, 2012, 09:46:03 PM
I might be reading them wrong (Umatilla Regs), but how can they be good if they allow long hunting seasons with no limits and either sex. These things add up to extinction in my book of thinking. when I read the limits on mule deer it said "Bucks and Does". Never mentioned how many a guy could shoot. Same thing with elk except I did note that during the rut you couldn't shoot branched antler bulls but before and after you can have at it with no limits. maybe I was reading it wrong, but that's what I got out of it.Look at our lands and come visit and see our animals... its been like this for years... seems something is working. But... its what you hear .... and other stories on here... thats how we all are. So maybe best not come over...
How can that be good game management?
Post by: HairTrigger on September 30, 2012, 10:24:14 PM
ya man where u been hair? lolI've been out looking for bulls close to the road someone is bugling at so I can shoot them lol :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: igotbigbulls on October 01, 2012, 05:54:20 AM
ya man where u been hair? lol
4 bull elk were shot and left to rot by tribal members using 22 mag in the Wenas last year on private land.
The tribe id'd the shooters and no enforcement/ court action was taken
I think this lack of action outlines the tribes total lack of ethics regarding enforcing the law.
prove me wrong.
im not yakama so i dont know about this. i was just askin where hairtrigger had been.
Post by: motcha on October 01, 2012, 07:38:04 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 10:03:34 AM
ya man where u been hair? lol
4 bull elk were shot and left to rot by tribal members using 22 mag in the Wenas last year on private land.
The tribe id'd the shooters and no enforcement/ court action was taken
I think this lack of action outlines the tribes total lack of ethics regarding enforcing the law.
prove me wrong.
here's the answer I gave you last fall.
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute. 4 tribal members shot 4 bull elk ( spikes) last Spring in the Wenas, at night, from the road, on private property with 22 mag. They then left the elk to rot. ( I posted pics on here) As far as I know they caught the 2 offenders and nothing was done to them to date.
Tribal members know this and constantly push the limit and shoot from the road, spotlight, tresspass and waste game.
They are never prosecuted or fined
I often run into tribal members hunting from vehicles. They stop and ask where the elk are. Every tribal member has responded that they want to be able to shoot from or near their vehicles and near the road so they do not have to hike to retrieve game. On a side note I often smell alcohol on their breath when the ask and see the empty beer cans in the back of their vehicles.
Does shooting from vehicles and drinking heavily while hunting somehow play into the hunting tribal ceremony/heritage?
Where is the honor in that?
I wish the tribes had more members like Coastal
Ribka, I've stated it here before and I'll state it again, if you see something take the info. down and if you don't want to report it then give it to me and I will report it. Document everything you can and don't bother them because that's a good way of escalating a siutation that can be avoided. The situation you described I already addressed here and I'm not quite sure which post it was but it was a few months ago now.
The Yakama was prosecuted in Tribal Court and last I heard he was barred of his hunting rights but not sure for how long and the other gentleman was Colville and he was turned over to the County Prosecutor. If they look Indian question their motives because nobody except Yakama's have rights east of the Cascades.
I also mentioned before the Tribal Police had turned over a couple of non-members that were caught poaching and although they may have been descendants they were not enrolled members so jurisdiction fell to the County and last time I was there they were facing some jail time and loss of hunting rights.
So to say "we" the Yakamas don't prosecute is a little bit immature and I can't speak for any other Tribe but I'm sure there are some bad apples that get away because nobody reports them. You don't want to do it then give it to me and I will be glad to do it.
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
question for the yakama guy's, would or could the tribe get their crap together and manage the elk on the rez like the apache tribe in arizona? I believe that you guy's have some of the best area in the state to build a real nice trophy area. Having worked on the rez many times over the years I believe you got the makins for it, but also know that the tribal council can be a little hard to work with since they don't even like to work with each other sometimes. I know the one in arizona charges up the ying yang to hunt and they have a waitin list.Seems like a win win for the tribe to me. just curious, not trying to stir anything.
I've asked the same thing for a couple of years now and haven't got an answer other than we'll look into it. I even mentioned we could even do other game like bears and cougars because some of the areas I've been to the last couple of years have had a lot of bears that ran before I was able to get a shot off and cougar crap was everywhere as well. I've had the discussion several times but not once have I gotten more than a head nod and we'll look into it answer.
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 11:11:51 AM
*content removed*
Post by: sled on October 01, 2012, 11:47:34 AM
as far as the regs go this is all i can do is post what there is to follow http://www.umatilla.nsn.us/hunting%20regulations.pdf (http://www.umatilla.nsn.us/hunting%20regulations.pdf)WOW! Thanks alot. You have made me absolutely sick to my stomach after reading those regs.
i for one would like to see if anything to first start with some type of harvest reporting for all game not just some of the game by our tribe. it would actually be nice to see the numbers
Post by: igotbigbulls on October 01, 2012, 12:08:47 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 12:54:57 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 01:08:25 PM
Edit it Hair. :police:
Did I miss something or was something posted inappropriate within the last 30 mins.? Just asking not trying to stir anything?
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 01:19:01 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 01:31:34 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 02:14:11 PM
You are doing great. I appreciate the honesty and the rebuttle and how you guys are keeping it on track. What I don't want are blatant insults. I have to admit I skipped fast through much of this as I hate these threads. Hair needs to keep it constructive instead of calling someone a horses a$$. No need for it on this site.R E A D. I T S L O W E R , B O N E LOL I SAID ALL I HEAR IS THE WRONG ENF OF A HORSE I DIDNT CALL A N Y O N E O U T :chuckle:
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 02:21:18 PM
I A M T AL K I N G A B O U T A L L T R E A D S L I K E T H I S O N EYou are doing great. I appreciate the honesty and the rebuttle and how you guys are keeping it on track. What I don't want are blatant insults. I have to admit I skipped fast through much of this as I hate these threads. Hair needs to keep it constructive instead of calling someone a horses a$$. No need for it on this site.R E A D. I T S L O W E R , B O N E LOL I SAID ALL I HEAR IS THE WRONG ENF OF A HORSE I DIDNT CALL A N Y O N E O U T :chuckle:
Post by: dvolmer on October 01, 2012, 02:27:00 PM
On the bottom of your introduction of who you are it states "Be proud fo who you are an where you come from".
After reading a few of your posts you might want to work on trying to make proud the people that you are so excited to be from, proud of you. If they were alive today they would be ashamed.
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 02:38:51 PM
I've seen worse and nothing happen but, they are trying to keep it as civil as possible so they can't be blamed for that. a lot worse was said in this thread and I didn't see the same warning and if there was a warning it wasn't done public like this one.
they've got a tough job to police a public forum and sometimes they miss something and sometimes they don't, this just happens to be the time they didn't.
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 03:03:32 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 03:07:31 PM
HairtriggerLol of what standing up for tha rights of my people, as they have done hmm ashamed more like proud of lol keep tryn bud
On the bottom of your introduction of who you are it states "Be proud fo who you are an where you come from".
After reading a few of your posts you might want to work on trying to make proud the people that you are so excited to be from, proud of you. If they were alive today they would be ashamed.
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 04:31:58 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 04:51:37 PM
Come if your gonna do it equally then do so, makes you look as bad as they do
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 04:56:54 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 05:22:14 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 05:51:45 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 05:54:03 PM
Quote
I'm sure that bull will go to a well deserving sovereign nation family who will thank the gods for the bountiful harvest...
Quit wasting my time. I fell dumb for looking. This is real insulting.....
Post by: sled on October 01, 2012, 06:08:59 PM
At least he is not publicly stating he wants to hunt indians whether the person actually plans to or not it's there in black and white.where was that stated? Missed that one. Not ok.
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 06:10:32 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 01, 2012, 06:11:16 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: bearpaw on October 01, 2012, 06:23:54 PM
Post by: sled on October 01, 2012, 06:53:34 PM
It is no longer what should have/ would have, but today, and wildlife management.
The people of washington go by rules set by the state. There are the natives that claim the still need special hunting rights to maintain their way of life. News flash times have changed!
We all need to hunt by the same rules to protect our valuble resorces.
Get real natives. Really you still need those benefits to survive today? Come on!
Post by: 724wd on October 01, 2012, 07:05:43 PM
Get real natives. Really you still need those benefits to survive today? Come on!
i waffle back and forth on this issue quite a bit. they dont need the benefits to survive today, but they have them and will fight like hell to hold on to them. cant say i wouldn't do the same. and what they're fighting for is to keep their heritage alive, which i think is really cool, but i think in 2012, with falling fish counts, dwindling animal herds, and opportunities in the dumpster, we should all be playing by the same rules.
like i said, i flip flop a lot! :chuckle:
Post by: dvolmer on October 01, 2012, 07:32:32 PM
Spank me now. :chuckle: these issues will never be talked out until all hunters are treated equal in washington.
It is no longer what should have/ would have, but today, and wildlife management.
The people of washington go by rules set by the state. There are the natives that claim the still need special hunting rights to maintain their way of life. News flash times have changed!
We all need to hunt by the same rules to protect our valuble resorces.
Get real natives. Really you still need those benefits to survive today? Come on!
Amen. I am done. You cant talk sense to people who think Just because they can they are better than you. Nothing we will say will ever change this. If roles were reversed they would be just as angry as the "Angry Mob" but they will defend there "Special Interest group" as long as they can. Once again I say how can you make sense when they have the menatlity that "They lick there balls because they can". Its like the dog down the street.
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 07:52:45 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 01, 2012, 07:55:27 PM
You could always go lick the balls of your legislators to see if any of them will take to task the modification of the treaties.Spank me now. :chuckle: these issues will never be talked out until all hunters are treated equal in washington.
It is no longer what should have/ would have, but today, and wildlife management.
The people of washington go by rules set by the state. There are the natives that claim the still need special hunting rights to maintain their way of life. News flash times have changed!
We all need to hunt by the same rules to protect our valuble resorces.
Get real natives. Really you still need those benefits to survive today? Come on!
Amen. I am done. You cant talk sense to people who think Just because they can they are better than you. Nothing we will say will ever change this. If roles were reversed they would be just as angry as the "Angry Mob" but they will defend there "Special Interest group" as long as they can. Once again I say how can you make sense when they have the menatlity that "They lick there balls because they can". Its like the dog down the street.
You write fairly well so take a swing at writing a letter to your legislator. If you put as much typing energy toward your letter as you have with this thread, you might actually get somewhere.
Please feel free to report back when you find out your legislator gives you, in the nicest way possible, a "wtf, are you crazy? I'm an elected official and I really like my political career and I would be an idiot if I tried to bring this form of legislation to committee."
Do i like it? Not particularly.
Do I respect the letter of the law and the foundation for the treaties? Yes.
Do I waste my time (any more than I did here) posting about the disdain for antiquated treaty language? Once a year! :chuckle:
Will it ever change to where both sides of this fence can find common ground for the betterment of fish and wildlife? Verbally, maybe. In writing, not in our lifetime.
That is all and thank you for your time in this matter.
Post by: sled on October 01, 2012, 08:03:12 PM
I agree, the whole issue really bugs the hell out of me. Its emotionally charged and there won't be a change until an uprising occurs basically.an uprising has begun! We all need to write our legislature and let them know what is happening. I will report back. WE ALL NEED TO DO THIS. Everyone who feels the same way on this site and in the state.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 01, 2012, 08:04:33 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 01, 2012, 08:24:13 PM
Post by: HairTrigger on October 01, 2012, 08:43:00 PM
Even Plat asked where I said it
Post by: sled on October 01, 2012, 09:11:40 PM
Page 4 I believe. Dvolmers comments.well damn...... i looked and didnt see anything.
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 01, 2012, 09:18:05 PM
Reply #36, and Bone already hit it with an edit cleaning it up.Page 4 I believe. Dvolmers comments.well damn...... i looked and didnt see anything.