Post by: Michelle_Nelson on January 13, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
Post by: spikehunter on January 13, 2013, 04:21:10 PM
Post by: Hunterman on January 13, 2013, 04:24:52 PM
I'd say they either froze to death, or starved.
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: hunterrcc on January 13, 2013, 04:45:31 PM
Post by: JLS on January 13, 2013, 04:49:49 PM
I don't care if it was or wasnt wolves. there wolves need to be taking care of they are out of control and we don't need them back into our system. If you want to see a wolve go north to Canada. Keep the damn things out of our state. Tony man do you like the wolves if so get off the hunt wa forums cuz your wolves are killing all our wildlife in our state!
So it makes someone a wolf lover if they point out the flaws in this claim? :rolleyes:
I agree with Tony, three dogs dead from "wolves" and no blood? Not likely.
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 04:54:08 PM
Post by: Hunterman on January 13, 2013, 05:05:28 PM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: Widgeondeke on January 13, 2013, 05:06:28 PM
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 05:12:21 PM
Those dogs are too complete for a wolf attack..I would go as far to say that they died from exposure. Froze to death.
Hunterman(Tony)
Ah I have seen them ripped to shreds and I have seen them crushed but not ripped apart, so I would not be TOO quick to say these were not killed by wolves. They certainly don't look to me like they died from malnutrition, most hounds can handle some pretty extreme weather conditions. Mine always stayed outside no matter what the temps got down to. Not ready to say this is a hoax. The dogs I have seen that weren't ripped apart, the handlers were not far away when the attacks occured.
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 05:12:29 PM
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on January 13, 2013, 05:33:57 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 13, 2013, 05:34:49 PM
http://dailyranger.com/story.php?story_id=3899&headline=Dogs-attack-sheep,-kill-44 (http://dailyranger.com/story.php?story_id=3899&headline=Dogs-attack-sheep,-kill-44)
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 05:38:03 PM
Wolf attack, the guy is running a friend of mines dog and sent him the pic. thankfully she wasnt let loose with these ones.Did he witness the attack?
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 13, 2013, 05:39:58 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 05:44:19 PM
How about a credible local news account of the incident?Why would that matter?
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 13, 2013, 05:50:10 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 05:56:46 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 13, 2013, 06:00:01 PM
Post by: JLS on January 13, 2013, 06:01:03 PM
My guess is that in Montana this kind of thing doesn't get reported much, just taken care of.
Take a look at Toby Bridges' crackpot website, he'd be all over anything remotely sensational.
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 06:04:23 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 13, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
My guess is that in Montana this kind of thing doesn't get reported much, just taken care of.
Take a look at Toby Bridges' crackpot website, he'd be all over anything remotely sensational.
Is that Lobo Watch?
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 06:19:51 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on January 13, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 06:27:16 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 13, 2013, 06:30:33 PM
I notice the collars have been pulled off, so more than likely the corpses rode back home in the back of a truck then was tossed in the snow for a pic
Post by: cougarbart on January 13, 2013, 07:03:16 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:06:13 PM
what i like is how many on here haven't even seen a wolf or track, yet they can tell it don't look like wolf kill?lol my guess is they are not pictured where they were found but can someone smarter than i tell me what to look for in a wolf kill? do they jump on there backs and bite down on neck, maybe hamstring em, I have only seen several dogs killed by wolves and each were very different, depending on how many wolves, were the dogs unaware and ambushed because they were at the tree, where the dogs trying to get away or fighting the wolves? can i get some ideas?I think what everyone maybe referring to is the lack of any visible wounds at all.
Post by: cougarbart on January 13, 2013, 07:10:13 PM
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 07:10:39 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2FMTHoundskilledbywolves.jpg&hash=bbda35cd79da39f08facb2607b94848f3e85e150)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2FMThoundskilledbywolves2.jpg&hash=a90bb46402bdaff15ca76b3ee4fb8de9b00c832d)
These dogs were in fact killed by wolves. They were at a lion tree doing their job. 4 kids had to drag they're best friends out of the woods.
Here is a reliable friend of mine account:
A good friend, his younger brother and my cousin’s (##### ##########'s) two daughters went on a lion hunt today. Wanting to enjoy this fine winter day, following the bawl of a hound on the trail of a lion seemed like a great idea. They all love the outdoors and are thankful for the wonderful opportunities that Montana offers.
Thinking they were hiking in to take a few pictures at a tree, they found tragedy instead. I will never forget the look on their faces when I drove up to meet them. Something no one should ever have to encounter. It is very sad day when four kids have to pack 3 of their best friends off of the hill. As Adeline said “Hiking out with dead dogs over our shoulders, covered in blood, and listening to wolves howl, isn't how our cat chase was supposed to end.”
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:11:57 PM
Post by: JLS on January 13, 2013, 07:17:19 PM
Post by: cougarbart on January 13, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on January 13, 2013, 07:22:13 PM
I like how a lot of you are calling BS before asking questions. Like where did you get the picture? Where did your source get the picture? Was this where they were killed?
Not enough Blood? Well here you go. . .is this enough for you?
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:30:00 PM
Post by: longrangekiller on January 13, 2013, 07:30:56 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on January 13, 2013, 07:33:43 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:34:25 PM
Wack em and stack em is all I gotta say about them wolfs:yeah: :mgun:
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 13, 2013, 07:34:57 PM
Wack em and stack em is all I gotta say about them wolfs
Actually you do have a say!!
Here are where the wolf meetings in this state are taking place this coming week!
The public meetings are scheduled for:
•Jan. 16 – Center Place Regional Event Center, 2426 N. Discovery Place, Spokane Valley, 6-8 p.m.
•Jan. 17 – Office Building #2, at 14th Ave. and Jefferson St., Olympia, 2:30-5 p.m.
•Jan. 18 – Magnuson Park’s Garden Room, 7400 Sand Point Way NE, Seattle, 6-8 p.m.
Virtually absent from Washington for more than 70 years, gray wolves have dispersed into the eastern portion of the state and the North Cascades from adjacent populations in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and British Columbia.
Post by: Special T on January 13, 2013, 07:35:09 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 13, 2013, 07:37:11 PM
just sayin
and
alls
to the owner of these dogs what a sad waste
Post by: cougarbart on January 13, 2013, 07:40:14 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on January 13, 2013, 07:41:39 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:42:17 PM
Thank you for posting the pics so doubters can cram it in their pie hole! I'm not really surprised by the doubters, and since you are are a stand up poster i was hoping you would put your foot in the Keester! :oFor crying out loud, I already said I stand corrected and was wrong. Should I be tarred and feathered too. I must be mistaken I thought this sight was about openly discussing and even debating all things outdoors. Christ you act like those of us that were skeptical openly cheered for the death of someones dog's. Way to chime in after the fact.
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:44:21 PM
Getting Sad about our site it;s hard to post without people questioning the story.Agreed, but there are so many people posting crap that turns out to be stretched or flat out false that we have to question things instead of going off half cocked screaming that the sky is falling.
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 07:46:09 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2FMTHoundskilledbywolves4.jpg&hash=dfda702a750bd96b34afa866aff32346a38086cc)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2FMThoundskilledbywolves3.jpg&hash=75ed52e9ea1b53b35d3d0764579fb89a828b9603)
Post by: furiouzgeorge on January 13, 2013, 07:48:27 PM
No need to be upset about it. If you look at it from the other side, with the info and pics given it was questionable to some.
I think they have every reason to be upset about yours and others responses to the OP. Ask a question before calling someone out as being dramatic or just anti-wolf. If you look at it 'from the other side' you've gotta assume the poster knows more about it than you do. When in doubt, ask for more pictures. Please don't just jump in and argue about something you don't hold all (or really any) of the facts on. As you said earlier, ask questions first.
Post by: Machias on January 13, 2013, 07:48:44 PM
Thank you for posting the pics so doubters can cram it in their pie hole! I'm not really surprised by the doubters, and since you are are a stand up poster i was hoping you would put your foot in the Keester! :oChrist you act like those of us that were skeptical openly cheered for the death of someones dog's.
Actually a couple of the guys above you, do in fact fit that description. I don't think they were pointing a finger at you.
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 13, 2013, 07:48:55 PM
Post by: JLS on January 13, 2013, 07:49:12 PM
Thank you for posting the pics so doubters can cram it in their pie hole! I'm not really surprised by the doubters, and since you are are a stand up poster i was hoping you would put your foot in the Keester! :oFor crying out loud, I already said I stand corrected and was wrong. Should I be tarred and feathered too. I must be mistaken I thought this sight was about openly discussing and even debating all things outdoors. Christ you act like those of us that were skeptical openly cheered for the death of someones dog's. Way to chime in after the fact.
Don't sweat it, he's probably referring to me.
Post by: JLS on January 13, 2013, 07:50:04 PM
No need to be upset about it. If you look at it from the other side, with the info and pics given it was questionable to some.
I think they have every reason to be upset about yours and others responses to the OP. Ask a question before calling someone out as being dramatic or just anti-wolf. If you look at it 'from the other side' you've gotta assume the poster knows more about it than you do. When in doubt, ask for more pictures. Please don't just jump in and argue about something you don't hold all (or really any) of the facts on. As you said earlier, ask questions first.
Absolutely correct, I should have asked before I chimed in.
Post by: cougarbart on January 13, 2013, 07:53:38 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 07:57:25 PM
but you are also correct turkeyfeathers that alot of proganda and false things get posted so it is your right and responsibility to question those things and come to a educated decision on your own not just follow what is posted!For those of you who wanna jump down my throat, go back and read all the posts this time. Twice I asked for more info and got no response. Don't go crying wolf if your going to ignore peoples questions.
Post by: Special T on January 13, 2013, 08:10:36 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on January 13, 2013, 08:22:37 PM
I wasn't even thinking about you when I made my second post. You atleast asked questions. The comments Hunterman made were the ones that initially pissed me off.
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 13, 2013, 08:25:53 PM
Turkeyfeather,:tup: Were good then?
I wasn't even thinking about you when I made my second post. You atleast asked questions. The comments Hunterman made were the ones that initially pissed me off.
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on January 13, 2013, 08:26:51 PM
Post by: RG on January 13, 2013, 08:37:39 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 13, 2013, 08:39:40 PM
Post by: Special T on January 13, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on January 13, 2013, 08:43:16 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 13, 2013, 08:52:11 PM
Post by: Special T on January 13, 2013, 08:56:51 PM
Post by: JLS on January 13, 2013, 09:02:32 PM
I think its a stand up move that JLS admitted he is wrong. My comments while directed at 2 particular members also made me think about comments made about fairly standup people in other areas/threads. :twocents:
Thank you, but in reality I should have asked a few questions before firing off a verdict.
Post by: Fishaholic on January 13, 2013, 09:13:48 PM
Post by: Basket Rack on January 13, 2013, 09:29:30 PM
I do like how they fixed up their jeep to haul their dogs.
Post by: bearpaw on January 13, 2013, 09:30:38 PM
Post by: RG on January 13, 2013, 09:36:52 PM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on January 13, 2013, 09:58:42 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on January 13, 2013, 10:09:59 PM
"The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away."
Job
Post by: Fishaholic on January 13, 2013, 10:35:04 PM
Post by: Fishaholic on January 13, 2013, 10:48:51 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 14, 2013, 02:04:22 AM
I'm kinda surprised at the run and gun of a couple of our members... does not surprise me about sitka tho.
Seriously? I asked for a credible source to try to verify an internet story and you think it's a hit and run?
Why wouldn't I believe without verifying something somebody posted on the internet?
Maybe because I've seen too many hoaxes like this.
http://www.kcet.org/news/the_back_forty/wildlife/what-the-eagle-video-hoax-says-about-our-place-in-nature.html (http://www.kcet.org/news/the_back_forty/wildlife/what-the-eagle-video-hoax-says-about-our-place-in-nature.html)
or this
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_work_moose_in_harness.htm (http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_work_moose_in_harness.htm)
or this
http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/175-internet-hoax.html (http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/175-internet-hoax.html)
Or how many other pictures have been posted supposedly of a new world record animal supposedly being shot. Most are purportedly from a friend or a friend of a friend and the person sending or posting them know 100% for sure they are real. Then they turn out to be fake.
If you don't think well meaning people can be fooled by stuff from the internet, you're naive. If you pass everything you see along without verifying, you're going to look like a fool eventually.
I still haven't seen any evidence to convince me this story and set of pictures is true. Still haven't seen anything to make me think it's false either. That's why I asked for a local news story, before I make up my mind.
Post by: Machias on January 14, 2013, 03:23:02 AM
Post by: JCKILLSHOT on January 14, 2013, 05:40:43 AM
I'm kinda surprised at the run and gun of a couple of our members... does not surprise me about sitka tho.
Seriously? I asked for a credible source to try to verify an internet story and you think it's a hit and run?
Why wouldn't I believe without verifying something somebody posted on the internet?
Maybe because I've seen too many hoaxes like this.
http://www.kcet.org/news/the_back_forty/wildlife/what-the-eagle-video-hoax-says-about-our-place-in-nature.html (http://www.kcet.org/news/the_back_forty/wildlife/what-the-eagle-video-hoax-says-about-our-place-in-nature.html)
or this
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_work_moose_in_harness.htm (http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_work_moose_in_harness.htm)
or this
http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/175-internet-hoax.html (http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/175-internet-hoax.html)
Or how many other pictures have been posted supposedly of a new world record animal supposedly being shot. Most are purportedly from a friend or a friend of a friend and the person sending or posting them know 100% for sure they are real. Then they turn out to be fake.
If you don't think well meaning people can be fooled by stuff from the internet, you're naive. If you pass everything you see along without verifying, you're going to look like a fool eventually.
I still haven't seen any evidence to convince me this story and set of pictures is true. Still haven't seen anything to make me think it's false either. That's why I asked for a local news story, before I make up my mind.
I think this is different then a world record story. Just because you didn't see blood and guts in the first pic you assumed that wolves couldn't have done it.
Post by: h2ofowlr on January 14, 2013, 07:03:07 AM
Post by: Special T on January 14, 2013, 07:58:47 AM
Post by: Machias on January 14, 2013, 08:23:03 AM
If they were my dogs i bring 2 that survived and would get them baying while a couple of buddies with AR's stacked them like cord wood. :twocents:
New Foxpro sound, hounds baying!!
Post by: JLS on January 14, 2013, 09:30:14 AM
If they were my dogs i bring 2 that survived and would get them baying while a couple of buddies with AR's stacked them like cord wood. :twocents:
New Foxpro sound, hounds baying!!
Seriously, has anyone tried this? I would think that you could hang a couple of tree stands so you could see travel routes and you would do very well. Would a hound bay at a house cat?
Post by: Machias on January 14, 2013, 10:16:23 AM
Would a hound bay at a house cat?
Oh yea!!
Post by: boneaddict on January 14, 2013, 10:27:02 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 14, 2013, 02:13:20 PM
No problem asking questions but go back and read your guys post and you were throwing the BS flag long before asking any questions. That's what irritated me, not so much that you were asking for details, but that you just dismissed this story right from the get go and we all know your thoughts on wolves. I think this is a good lesson to hold fire you get more details.
I never called BS. I asked for verification. This story may very well be true. Unfortunately, a set of pictures, or even a video, as the hawk video shows, is not proof. That's just the way the internet works.
I've made the mistake of jumping on reasonable sounding stories from sources I would have expected to be reliable and passed them on only to be burned. I'm cautious of what I believe now until I can verify it, and usually by more than one source.
Post by: 75johndeere on January 14, 2013, 02:16:49 PM
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: Machias on January 14, 2013, 02:24:29 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 03:07:08 PM
I never called BS. I asked for verification.You didn't ask for verification first. You posted "Maybe they were "bad dogs" like these. http://dailyranger.com/story.php?story_id=3899&headline=Dogs-attack-sheep,-kill-44 (http://dailyranger.com/story.php?story_id=3899&headline=Dogs-attack-sheep,-kill-44)
"
How you would somehow relate a a story about dogs "reportedly" killing sheep to dead dogs killed by wolves is a stretch.
You could have at least asked some questions first rather than speculating it was "bad dogs".
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 14, 2013, 03:15:35 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 14, 2013, 03:16:43 PM
I like your way of thinking :tup: :chuckle:If they were my dogs i bring 2 that survived and would get them baying while a couple of buddies with AR's stacked them like cord wood. :twocents:
New Foxpro sound, hounds baying!!
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 03:24:57 PM
Just pointing out that dogs kill more farm animals and domestic animals than wolves do.There was a fable about a boy who cried "no wolf".
Post by: Northway on January 14, 2013, 03:35:41 PM
I have owned, bred, and hunted hundreds of hounds in multiple western states since the 70's. I have never heard of three dogs (hounds) freezing in the winter, never. We've been hound hunting in -10 to -20 temps the last few weeks and not one dog even cares about the temps. Simply put, hounds live outside year around and do not freeze to death. I find it amazing that people who know nothing of what they talk about would stoop to the level of basically calling someone a liar who has lost their dogs to wolves. But, as we all know, wolf lovers will go to any extent to promote wolves, another case in point. :twocents:
To say that "wolf lovers" will go to any extent to promote wolves is painting a broad stroke across a complicated set of folks.
I do have a question about hounds that relates specifically to WA: Knowing that wolves in some yet undetermined numbers are here to stay, if you could expand hound-hunting of cougars, would it be worth it to you knowing these kinds of conflicts would inevitably increase as a result?
Post by: grundy53 on January 14, 2013, 03:41:09 PM
Seems like maybe hunterman would come back on here and apologize. Maybe that's too much to expect.
:yeah: awefully quiet....
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 14, 2013, 03:50:07 PM
Could you give us your stand on wolves ? Are you a hunter ? Wolf lover or both ! I will let BearPaw answer the question pointed at him ... :dunno: :chuckle:I have owned, bred, and hunted hundreds of hounds in multiple western states since the 70's. I have never heard of three dogs (hounds) freezing in the winter, never. We've been hound hunting in -10 to -20 temps the last few weeks and not one dog even cares about the temps. Simply put, hounds live outside year around and do not freeze to death. I find it amazing that people who know nothing of what they talk about would stoop to the level of basically calling someone a liar who has lost their dogs to wolves. But, as we all know, wolf lovers will go to any extent to promote wolves, another case in point. :twocents:
To say that "wolf lovers" will go to any extent to promote wolves is painting a broad stroke across a complicated set of folks.
I do have a question about hounds that relates specifically to WA: Knowing that wolves in some yet undetermined numbers are here to stay, if you could expand hound-hunting of cougars, would it be worth it to you knowing these kinds of conflicts would inevitably increase as a result?
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 03:55:17 PM
He did in a separate thread: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,115591.msg1520202.html#msg1520202 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,115591.msg1520202.html#msg1520202)Seems like maybe hunterman would come back on here and apologize. Maybe that's too much to expect.
:yeah: awefully quiet....
Post by: Northway on January 14, 2013, 04:06:06 PM
Could you give us your stand on wolves ? Are you a hunter ? Wolf lover or both ! I will let BearPaw answer the question pointed at him ... :dunno: :chuckle:I have owned, bred, and hunted hundreds of hounds in multiple western states since the 70's. I have never heard of three dogs (hounds) freezing in the winter, never. We've been hound hunting in -10 to -20 temps the last few weeks and not one dog even cares about the temps. Simply put, hounds live outside year around and do not freeze to death. I find it amazing that people who know nothing of what they talk about would stoop to the level of basically calling someone a liar who has lost their dogs to wolves. But, as we all know, wolf lovers will go to any extent to promote wolves, another case in point. :twocents:
To say that "wolf lovers" will go to any extent to promote wolves is painting a broad stroke across a complicated set of folks.
I do have a question about hounds that relates specifically to WA: Knowing that wolves in some yet undetermined numbers are here to stay, if you could expand hound-hunting of cougars, would it be worth it to you knowing these kinds of conflicts would inevitably increase as a result?
Compared to the level of experience the vast majority have who post here, no I am not a hunter.
I'll spare you the details and admit that you would most likely classify me as a "wolf lover".
Post by: KFhunter on January 14, 2013, 04:11:43 PM
Just use one of bearmanrics coyote howlers. Has the same effect. Anyone with any salt in the woods would know that coyotes stop howling once they hear a wolf. Its not rocket science folks.
not true, at least in the instances I've seen *heard* rather.
I suspect once the yotes are educated you might be right, but wolves are a fairly recent thing in a lot of parts and not all the yotes have it figured out.
All the times I've heard wolf howles the yotes lit up for miles.
Post by: cougarbart on January 14, 2013, 07:17:48 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2013, 09:06:15 PM
I have owned, bred, and hunted hundreds of hounds in multiple western states since the 70's. I have never heard of three dogs (hounds) freezing in the winter, never. We've been hound hunting in -10 to -20 temps the last few weeks and not one dog even cares about the temps. Simply put, hounds live outside year around and do not freeze to death. I find it amazing that people who know nothing of what they talk about would stoop to the level of basically calling someone a liar who has lost their dogs to wolves. But, as we all know, wolf lovers will go to any extent to promote wolves, another case in point. :twocents:
To say that "wolf lovers" will go to any extent to promote wolves is painting a broad stroke across a complicated set of folks.
I do have a question about hounds that relates specifically to WA: Knowing that wolves in some yet undetermined numbers are here to stay, if you could expand hound-hunting of cougars, would it be worth it to you knowing these kinds of conflicts would inevitably increase as a result?
Unless I am reading too much into your post, you seem to be saying that since there are wolves in Washington that maybe we should never run hounds? That's like saying because a woman got killed on the streets of Seattle that no women should be allowed on the streets! Seems to me the culprit isn't the innocent woman, it's the killer. Do you think we should outlaw women's presence on the streets?
We hunt our dogs in idaho every year but we try to avoid areas with fresh wolf tracks and activity just as I would avoid a known gang area at night in Seattle. I hope this answers your question.
Post by: jackelope on January 14, 2013, 09:29:17 PM
Let me rephrase what I think he is asking.
Knowing there are wolves in Washington, does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds? Expanding hound hunting in this state puts more hounds into potentially direct contact with wolves. This unfortunate incident could happen here. Does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds in wolf country?
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on January 14, 2013, 09:34:25 PM
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lion-hunter-says-wolves-killed-dogs-in-ninemile/article_3c6867c0-5e9b-11e2-a48b-0019bb2963f4.html (http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lion-hunter-says-wolves-killed-dogs-in-ninemile/article_3c6867c0-5e9b-11e2-a48b-0019bb2963f4.html)
Post by: Time Immemorial on January 14, 2013, 09:36:04 PM
Post by: Special T on January 14, 2013, 09:37:07 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 14, 2013, 09:44:14 PM
Funny how people run with somethings like this been seen this a lot on the web. Hounds killed by wolves. I'm sure hounds also get killed by cats and bears also but I dont see people sayin cats and bears are bad in washington :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle:
This is true, and an accepted risk among houndsmen. Thankfully it's very rare. I know of one cat that killed 3 dogs. They went back up the next day and put a whole wack of dogs from several houndsmen on the cat all at once, I don't know how many but it was a lot. way more than they'd usually put out.
they got the cat and it was a large tom with a puncture wound through the skull where another tom had bitten it.
Wolves are a whole different thing, they aren't the target animal fighting back, they come in from miles off and kill every hound they can find.
I don't really see the comparison? A bear or cat won't come to the running hounds looking for a fight, wolves will.
Post by: Northway on January 14, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
I think you're reading into a post that is just a legitimate question.
Let me rephrase what I think he is asking.
Knowing there are wolves in Washington, does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds? Expanding hound hunting in this state puts more hounds into potentially direct contact with wolves. This unfortunate incident could happen here. Does that affect anyone's decision to run hounds in wolf country?
Yes, that was my question - thanks for the improved wording. I think the fact that he runs hounds in Idaho renders my question answered, for his part.
Post by: JCKILLSHOT on January 14, 2013, 10:12:01 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 14, 2013, 11:49:19 PM
For those looking or a News Story.
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lion-hunter-says-wolves-killed-dogs-in-ninemile/article_3c6867c0-5e9b-11e2-a48b-0019bb2963f4.html (http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lion-hunter-says-wolves-killed-dogs-in-ninemile/article_3c6867c0-5e9b-11e2-a48b-0019bb2963f4.html)
Thanks!
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2013, 12:32:48 AM
But it's ironic to see other hunters get so emotionally wound up over wolves killing things. It's what they do, just like dogs. In fact every argument you can use against wolves, can be used against dogs. (and cats)
These wolves aren't native to this area. Neither are cats and dogs. All introduced by humans
Wolves spread hydatid disease. Dogs spread hydatid disease, and there will always be way more dogs than wolves.
Wolves kill wild animals. Dogs and cats kill wild animals.
Wolves kill domestic animals. Dogs kill domestic animals. In fact dogs are the second largest group of sheep killers in the US, behind coyotes. http://www.sheep101.info/predators.html (http://www.sheep101.info/predators.html) If you take the numbers here, in 2010, 247,200 sheep were killed by predators in the USA. 51.7% by coyotes, and 22.7% or 56,114 by dogs.
Wolves (very rarely) attack humans. 2 documented deaths in over 100 years in North America. Dogs attack humans on a regular basis including an average of 26 deaths per year since 2005 just in the USA.
What you don't see is an outcry on hunting sites every time a dog kills an animal or a person. Or people freaking out about dogs spreading tapeworms. Or dogs not being native to the area. Nobody gets on HW and proclaims their disgust with dogs and demands that they be eradicated as vermin or a danger to society. The only time people get upset with dogs is when the neighbor's dog poops in your yard.
Sure, wolves cause some problems, but those problems are blown way out of proportion to the reality. Deal with the problem ones, just like you would problem dogs. Hunt and trap them where they're legal. But really, the fear and hyperbole are unjustified and hypocritical when compared to dogs.
Post by: Special T on January 15, 2013, 07:56:26 AM
Post by: RG on January 15, 2013, 08:04:12 AM
Post by: BuckNAze on January 15, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 09:58:40 AM
I'm sorry this young man lost his dogs. Dogs can be like family, in fact better than family.Let's be honest here. These numbers are obviously scewed by the population of coyotes vs. dogs vs. wolves. Sure coyotes and dogs attack and kill more taht's because the population of dogs is 100 times that of wolves, and much much more than coyotes. You actually argued against yourself here. If coyotes are the #1 killer and they grossly outnumber wolves how do you think those numbers will change when a wolf population starts to catch up. You don't need to be a biologist to figure that out. And as had been said you cannot compare a cat to a wolf(apples to orange) totally different personalities.
But it's ironic to see other hunters get so emotionally wound up over wolves killing things. It's what they do, just like dogs. In fact every argument you can use against wolves, can be used against dogs. (and cats)
These wolves aren't native to this area. Neither are cats and dogs. All introduced by humans
Wolves spread hydatid disease. Dogs spread hydatid disease, and there will always be way more dogs than wolves.
Wolves kill wild animals. Dogs and cats kill wild animals.
Wolves kill domestic animals. Dogs kill domestic animals. In fact dogs are the second largest group of sheep killers in the US, behind coyotes. http://www.sheep101.info/predators.html (http://www.sheep101.info/predators.html) If you take the numbers here, in 2010, 247,200 sheep were killed by predators in the USA. 51.7% by coyotes, and 22.7% or 56,114 by dogs.
Wolves (very rarely) attack humans. 2 documented deaths in over 100 years in North America. Dogs attack humans on a regular basis including an average of 26 deaths per year since 2005 just in the USA.
Post by: Fishaholic on January 15, 2013, 10:52:38 AM
Post by: Northway on January 15, 2013, 10:57:14 AM
I'm sure you already realize that, but wolves aren't even a part of the discussion about adaptivity when you're talking about yotes.
I've read about Wildlife Service agents from the 60's & 70's stating the combined pressure of poison, trapping, & aerial shooting during winter could only put a short term dent in coyote numbers locally. Agents would swear they absolutely wiped out the coyote population in a given area when given the opportunity through aerial shooting after a heavy snowfall, only to have ranchers complaining just as much the following summer.
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 11:07:58 AM
Wolves will never catch up to coyotes. Coyotes have to be one of the most adaptive mammals on the face of the earth. Unbelievably, coyotes even find their way into Central Park in Manhattan!You missed my point. It was that of course yotes and dogs kill more they is a much much bigger population of them. That's just plain common sense.
I'm sure you already realize that, but wolves aren't even a part of the discussion about adaptivity when you're talking about yotes.
I've read about Wildlife Service agents from the 60's & 70's stating the combined pressure of poison, trapping, & aerial shooting during winter could only put a short term dent in coyote numbers locally. Agents would swear they absolutely wiped out the coyote population in a given area when given the opportunity through aerial shooting after a heavy snowfall, only to have ranchers complaining just as much the following summer.
Post by: Northway on January 15, 2013, 11:14:39 AM
Wolves will never catch up to coyotes. Coyotes have to be one of the most adaptive mammals on the face of the earth. Unbelievably, coyotes even find their way into Central Park in Manhattan!You missed my point. It was that of course yotes and dogs kill more they is a much much bigger population of them. That's just plain common sense.
I'm sure you already realize that, but wolves aren't even a part of the discussion about adaptivity when you're talking about yotes.
I've read about Wildlife Service agents from the 60's & 70's stating the combined pressure of poison, trapping, & aerial shooting during winter could only put a short term dent in coyote numbers locally. Agents would swear they absolutely wiped out the coyote population in a given area when given the opportunity through aerial shooting after a heavy snowfall, only to have ranchers complaining just as much the following summer.
True. Multiple factors make comparisons between domestic dogs, wolves, and yotes difficult.
Post by: Special T on January 15, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on January 15, 2013, 12:55:49 PM
But you can stack coyotes and rouge dogs like cord wood.That's one of the primary differences...
Post by: Special T on January 15, 2013, 01:02:54 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2013, 01:32:47 PM
Let's be honest here. These numbers are obviously scewed by the population of coyotes vs. dogs vs. wolves. Sure coyotes and dogs attack and kill more taht's because the population of dogs is 100 times that of wolves, and much much more than coyotes. You actually argued against yourself here. If coyotes are the #1 killer and they grossly outnumber wolves how do you think those numbers will change when a wolf population starts to catch up.
Let's be honest again, wolves will never catch up, for numerous reasons. The number one being they are very territorial and will and do kill each other. Wolves are one of the biggest killers of wolves. Also wolves have to survive by putting their lives on the line. Many are crippled and killed by prey animals. They don't live an easy life. Not many die of old age. Dogs on the other hand are pampered and fed and given shelter. Not many have to fight for their lives. Most live to old age if they learn to stay off the roads.
But consider this, hunters and gun owners (rightly so) get their hackles up at gun control fanatics who use tragedies like Sandy Hook to whip up emotional fervor for more stringent gun control. Hunters and gun owners (rightly so) argue that the bad guys should be held responsible for their actions, not all gun owners. Gun owners feel (rightly so) that these tragedies shouldn't be emotionalized to bring down legislation against law abiding gun owners.
But then hunters turn around and do the same thing in the wolf debate. They takes stories like this and make emotional arguments about wolves. Every little bad action by a wolf or suspected bad action, or completely made up bad action is blamed on all wolves. Just like there are gun control fanatics who pretend they only want reasonable limitations and bans, when we all know their goal is to end gun ownership, there are hunters who pretend they want reasonable controls on wolves, when really, they want to get rid of them all. Those are the fringe people on both sides of the gun and wolf argument. It's up to the folks in the middle to maintain good sense and come up with reasonable solutions in both cases and not let the lunatics define the problems and solutions. It's easy to get caught up in emotionalism and much harder to look at an emotional situation and remain thoughtful and logical.
I know it's not the popular view here, but I'm just being consistent in my views. It's wrong to let tragedies be used to force emotional solutions. Period.
Post by: cougarbart on January 15, 2013, 03:08:20 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 03:16:26 PM
I agree to a point. But here's the problem. 1st off, you just agreed with the point I was making. Wolves are nowhere near the population that other K-9 animals are. Nobody is disputing that. Thank god, could you imagine the chaos and damage they would do if they were. 2nd, show me a story where a wolf or pack was wrongly accused of any wrong doing. (good luck). And finally, I and I am willing to bet alot of other hunters don't have a problem with wolf re-introduction. I actually happen to think it's a good thing. The problem is that wolves were cramed down hunters throats with no say or recourse. We then have to accept higher licensing and tag fees to go hunt a smaller more dispersed population of ungulates because of the wolves. And again when we complain the tree huggers on the coast that drive their pink Priuses rally gather their money and "convince" WDFW to ignore it. When there does become a problem that WDFW has to take care of it's the sportsman fault. So yeah I have a little bit of a problem with wolves and the way they are being managed.
Let's be honest here. These numbers are obviously scewed by the population of coyotes vs. dogs vs. wolves. Sure coyotes and dogs attack and kill more taht's because the population of dogs is 100 times that of wolves, and much much more than coyotes. You actually argued against yourself here. If coyotes are the #1 killer and they grossly outnumber wolves how do you think those numbers will change when a wolf population starts to catch up.
Let's be honest again, wolves will never catch up, for numerous reasons. The number one being they are very territorial and will and do kill each other. Wolves are one of the biggest killers of wolves. Also wolves have to survive by putting their lives on the line. Many are crippled and killed by prey animals. They don't live an easy life. Not many die of old age. Dogs on the other hand are pampered and fed and given shelter. Not many have to fight for their lives. Most live to old age if they learn to stay off the roads.
But consider this, hunters and gun owners (rightly so) get their hackles up at gun control fanatics who use tragedies like Sandy Hook to whip up emotional fervor for more stringent gun control. Hunters and gun owners (rightly so) argue that the bad guys should be held responsible for their actions, not all gun owners. Gun owners feel (rightly so) that these tragedies shouldn't be emotionalized to bring down legislation against law abiding gun owners.
But then hunters turn around and do the same thing in the wolf debate. They takes stories like this and make emotional arguments about wolves. Every little bad action by a wolf or suspected bad action, or completely made up bad action is blamed on all wolves. Just like there are gun control fanatics who pretend they only want reasonable limitations and bans, when we all know their goal is to end gun ownership, there are hunters who pretend they want reasonable controls on wolves, when really, they want to get rid of them all. Those are the fringe people on both sides of the gun and wolf argument. It's up to the folks in the middle to maintain good sense and come up with reasonable solutions in both cases and not let the lunatics define the problems and solutions. It's easy to get caught up in emotionalism and much harder to look at an emotional situation and remain thoughtful and logical.
I know it's iew here, but I'm just being consistent in my views. It's wrong to let tragedies be used to force emotional solutions. Period.
Post by: Special T on January 15, 2013, 03:35:17 PM
Do you like it when someone crams something down your throat and told to like it? Most people don't...
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 03:42:26 PM
Post by: Special T on January 15, 2013, 04:07:10 PM
Wolves have been in the Central Cascades for a LONG time. Hell the WDFW closed coyote season in the NC area because they didn't want people shooting the timber wolves 10 years ago!
Part of the reason why this issue is so complex is because of the tactic used by lawyers wrapped in the ESA. They keep repeating the mantra that we need to recover the wolf, and any objection is cause to file a lawsuit and ring up legal bills that they get to collect at a later point...
So TF yes and no i disagree. :chuckle: No i don't have problems with wolves, but the promises made earlier are not being follow now so i have problems debating what is "reasonable" since original intent and promises are ignored.
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 04:19:56 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2013, 04:43:22 PM
how honestly can you say wolves won't become as previliant as coyotes?
Because that's not how wolves work. They're pack animals and need lots of room and are very territorial. Coyotes can survive anywhere including Los Angeles. They are small, don't need much cover, and will scavange anything. Coyotes became pests after wolves were exterminated. One thing wolves do is keep the competition down from other canines. That's one reason they are hard on dogs. By helping trim coyote #s, wolves help small game and birds survive and fawns. Plus coyotes kill more mature deer than people think. Go to youtube and search coyote kills deer. You can watch all kinds of videos.
Wolves vs Coyote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAoszVLRP6U#)
Two Coyotes take down a mature doe kills deer on trail cam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j42xdpW95I#ws)
Coyote Kills Deer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB97fKaXKHk#)
Post by: JCKILLSHOT on January 15, 2013, 04:56:15 PM
Post by: cougarbart on January 15, 2013, 04:57:59 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2013, 05:01:48 PM
Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.
You'd lose that bet.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2013, 05:08:59 PM
how do you know how wolves work?
Because I've lived and hunted around them most of my adult life.
Really pack animals, so you won't find them by themselfs?
Of course sometimes there are "lone wolves" But that isn't their social structure. They stick together because that ups the survival chances of the pack. Hunting solitary is fine for small game, but when taking on an elk or a moose, there is safety and success in numbers.
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2013, 05:17:48 PM
I'll take the bet.Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.
You'd lose that bet.
www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com)
"coyote kills" in search box: 1,610 results
"wolf kills" in search box: 10,500 results.
Post by: JCKILLSHOT on January 15, 2013, 05:21:40 PM
Post by: RG on January 15, 2013, 05:27:59 PM
I'll take the bet.Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.
You'd lose that bet.
www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com)
"coyote kills" in search box: 1,610 results
"wolf kills" in search box: 10,500 results.
Ha! But it's unfair you know. It's probably some kind of predjudice toward wolves, they are a special gifted species deserving special attention not afforded to all the other game animals you know.
Sitka, again I suggest that wolves are going to cause an environmental mess if not managed better than they currently are. They will gain momentum and wildlife management will be playing catch up from now on. They will even be a detriment to themselves because, in the areas where they are spreading, there isn't going to be enough food to go around. They are large animals that need a lot of nourishment each. Add to that the number of wolves in a pack and it takes a pretty good meat market to keep them going. In Washington there are very few systems that can support them very long. Coyotes get by on mice and other small rodents with the occasional rabbit size meal thrown in. Not so wolves. They are going to take more and more domestic animals because they will need to survive. They always kill dogs when they get a chance, it's their nature. Not so coyotes unless it's a pretty small dog or there happen to be a few coyotes running together. Wolves are pretty much a menace to the environment as we know it in 2013. The only smart management plan I've heard is Wyoming's. They said "there are only a few places that wolves make sense. They will be game there and a varmint everywhere else because we don't want to deal with them harassing our citizens". That's a novel concept, putting the citizens of the state and their wellbeing first.
Post by: cougarbart on January 15, 2013, 06:20:22 PM
Post by: Fishaholic on January 15, 2013, 06:50:28 PM
I didn't think you could hunt them in washington sitka? oh you lived and hunted them in alaska? Well washington is just like alaska large tracts of uninhabitated wolf habitat, plenty of caribou and moose in washington :chuckle: Its a completely different ecosystem down here! I myself doubt they will be in populated cities like coyotes, but to say they won't learn to hang around small populated places and make livestock a main food source is crazy! Yes washington has some habitat that could hold small population of wolves but we have already reached maximum capaticity in certain areas!have you ever been out to promise land or anywere close? I think after you seen that you will change you mind. there are alot of areas in western Wa that could hold wolfs. do research the WDFW killed 6 of them last year in Wa.
Post by: cougarbart on January 15, 2013, 06:56:08 PM
Post by: Fishaholic on January 15, 2013, 07:10:52 PM
Post by: cougarbart on January 15, 2013, 07:16:56 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 07:29:16 PM
it could hold a more then a few small groups. i have seen a wolf out there and many loggers have to. i called the game department and they said there had been more then one report of a wolfs sightings in the area i was in. i think they are all over western Wa. i think people just dont see them in the woods.I may be wrong but I haven't seen anything about a confirmed pack anywhere near you. A couple of strays here and there is alot different than having multiple confirmed packs in the areas you hunt. You'd be suprised what that does to your hunting.
Post by: grundy53 on January 15, 2013, 07:32:53 PM
:yeah:it could hold a more then a few small groups. i have seen a wolf out there and many loggers have to. i called the game department and they said there had been more then one report of a wolfs sightings in the area i was in. i think they are all over western Wa. i think people just dont see them in the woods.I may be wrong but I haven't seen anything about a confirmed pack anywhere near you. A couple of strays here and there is alot different than having multiple confirmed packs in the areas you hunt. You'd be suprised what that does to your hunting.
Post by: Fishaholic on January 15, 2013, 09:54:17 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 15, 2013, 10:00:46 PM
im just saying i know that there is enough area to hold a large number of wolfs im not saying there is or is not. the hunting areas i live next to suck. they get damaged by illegal brush pickers and poachers.
Boy you've got that right.
Post by: splitshot on January 15, 2013, 10:02:56 PM
Post by: Fishaholic on January 15, 2013, 11:06:36 PM
we need more hounds and less wolves. i am going to the wolf meeting in spokane on wednesday eve. mike wtell them ill kill wofls for free all day. and sitda its getting worse and worse every year around hear for all game. when i was little i remember my cousins killing 2 bear a bear in the promise land now your lucky to shoot a grouse. the brush pickers are raping the wildlife and no one is doing anything about it.
Post by: splitshot on January 15, 2013, 11:11:40 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 15, 2013, 11:30:13 PM
i am from the dry side , but could someone kindly explain what a brush picker is. i am familiar with poacher and hope i see one and turn him in for points. thanks, mike wBrushpickers scour the forest for particular plants such as salal, beargrass, oregon grape, cedar boughs, pine boughs, etc. It used to be done by local families---a logger would take the family out on the weekend and they would gather some plants and sell to floral buyers. Now the floral industry in WA is estimated to be close to a $1 billion/year industry (only $500 million being legit). So there are brush wranglers that in order to meet the demands of the East Coast and Europe (mostly Netherlands) have been importing labor from south of the border (Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala mainly). They rip off the mostly illegal workers and the pickers resort to killing lots of wildlife in the forest--snares and clubs for deer. Westside towns have large illegal populations now, and it isn't uncommon to see a van or two while out on DNR/FS land. Should explain some of it.
Post by: Fishaholic on January 15, 2013, 11:46:26 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 16, 2013, 08:32:38 AM
we need more hounds and less wolves. i am going to the wolf meeting in spokane on wednesday eve. mike w
I'll be there tonight as well Mike.
i am from the dry side , but could someone kindly explain what a brush picker is. i am familiar with poacher and hope i see one and turn him in for points. thanks, mike wBrushpickers scour the forest for particular plants such as salal, beargrass, oregon grape, cedar boughs, pine boughs, etc. It used to be done by local families---a logger would take the family out on the weekend and they would gather some plants and sell to floral buyers. Now the floral industry in WA is estimated to be close to a $1 billion/year industry (only $500 million being legit). So there are brush wranglers that in order to meet the demands of the East Coast and Europe (mostly Netherlands) have been importing labor from south of the border (Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala mainly). They rip off the mostly illegal workers and the pickers resort to killing lots of wildlife in the forest--snares and clubs for deer. Westside towns have large illegal populations now, and it isn't uncommon to see a van or two while out on DNR/FS land. Should explain some of it.
I had no idea anything like this went on. Then again when I lived in Aberdeen I wasn't a hunter.
Post by: Fishaholic on January 16, 2013, 11:51:45 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 16, 2013, 12:02:44 PM
happens everyday i see them every time i go out in the woods most are illegal the border patroll should go hit the dirt roads once a week they would do good. hahahaBorder Patrol on the peninsula basically has its hands tied for this because of all the protests and lawsuits from human rights groups from Seattle. They got in trouble for racial profiling. Forest Service isn't allowed to use BP for translating assistance any more....they have to call some other certified translator.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 16, 2013, 03:36:22 PM
happens everyday i see them every time i go out in the woods most are illegal the border patroll should go hit the dirt roads once a week they would do good. hahaha
I live in Hoquiam and see the same things, tho never caught anybody dumping trash. But I've seen plenty of vans full of people of questionable nationality out picking brush. You know they either are illegally picking brush or are not legal citizens when you come around the corner and they're all scrambling into the brush. Figured out their "pick me up" code down in Williams Creek. They call the driver on a cell, then drop a green branch in the road so the driver knows where to stop. Then they hide back in the brush and don't come out until the driver stops. The driver takes off after dumping them off then returns later for the pick up. That way to the casual eye, there's no one in the area. There's been some cases where they've been caught with poached animals under their brush. Some with multiple animals.
Post by: Fishaholic on January 16, 2013, 05:01:11 PM
Post by: gaddy on January 16, 2013, 05:20:39 PM
Post by: Fishaholic on January 16, 2013, 11:38:03 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 17, 2013, 02:10:23 PM
Now that they have their wolves in the lower 48 the head of USFWS retired and now leads the Defenders of Wildlife. You can't tell me that greenies didn't infiltrate the USFWS, that's proof.
Now back to topic, these wolves shouldn't even be here for several reasons but they were illegally crammed down our throat and we are not allowed to protect ourselves or our dogs, so that is why I have a problem with wolves.
Yes a cougar or bear occasionally kills a hound, but that is different, we take that chance by pursueing them and we know that occasionally a dog(s) may suffer the consequences. Wolves were eradicated, then illegally introduced, we do not turn our hounds to hunt them and we are not able to protect our hounds. When wolves attack they often kill the whole group of hounds.
FYI - At least part of the Smackout pack is living within about 4 miles of Colville. It's as if the collared wolf followed the cattle trucks from Smackout to the rancher's house. The neighbors have also had the collared wolf right next to their house. This is only a few miles from my house where my dogs live outside. This wolf better stay away from my place. My neighbor up the road had 5 wolves trying to attack his German Shepherds in their kennel two years ago, he had to fire shots to scare them off. He said the wolves were as big or bigger than his german shepherds. I know that guy, he has lived in Colville his whole life and knows what a coyote looks like, the WDFW called me up and said it was coyotes, what a joke. WHAT A JOKE!
This time there is radio collar proof the wolf is living right near these ranchers homes and many other homes. It walked right past one rancher's house. It's just a matter of time till there is serious problems.
The truth is that the WDFW and the wolf lovers in Washington have no idea how wolves will react in a populated state like Washington which has less (unpopulated by humans) habitat than any of the other wolf states. It's too bad that lady who was out for a jog that used to live in Alaska can't tell us how wolves will react around humans. :twocents:
Post by: cougarbart on January 17, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 17, 2013, 03:45:20 PM
:yeah: it amazes me how people don't think about animals adapting to their surroundings? it is very possible we just re-introduced a disease that will completely change our ecosystem! Like putting northern pike in a lake and then wondering why there is no trout left? The other issue i have on this board is lets have a hunting season, thats great but as they have found in idaho and montana a hunting season does little to effect the population of these animals! We couldn't control cougar populations without hounds and now we have a disease that may not be able to be managed without trapping and poison which i guarantee we won't get back!I don't know if you saw the thread about the meeting in Spokane last night. The biologist said that the populations in Idaho and Montana have so far above what was intended that hunters will never be able to restore them to intended levels.
Post by: cougarbart on January 17, 2013, 04:39:29 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 17, 2013, 04:44:09 PM
Post by: cougarbart on January 17, 2013, 04:45:13 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 17, 2013, 05:02:20 PM
Not to keep my dog in, but keep the wolves out!
Post by: bearpaw on January 17, 2013, 05:46:58 PM
:yeah: it amazes me how people don't think about animals adapting to their surroundings? it is very possible we just re-introduced a disease that will completely change our ecosystem! Like putting northern pike in a lake and then wondering why there is no trout left? The other issue i have on this board is lets have a hunting season, thats great but as they have found in idaho and montana a hunting season does little to effect the population of these animals! We couldn't control cougar populations without hounds and now we have a disease that may not be able to be managed without trapping and poison which i guarantee we won't get back!I don't know if you saw the thread about the meeting in Spokane last night. The biologist said that the populations in Idaho and Montana have so far above what was intended that hunters will never be able to restore them to intended levels.
What's sad is that the wolf lovers in Washington will likely have the legislators like Rankin stop any hunting season. It's most likely the tax payer will foot the entire bill for controlling wolves after they wipe out each rancher, one after another. The big question, what happens when wolves grab a kid or jogger? I know for a fact that there are kids who live where the smackout collared wolf is hanging out just a few miles from Colville. There is also at least two women who jog or walk in that same area frequently. How would you like to be standing outside waiting for the bus in that neighborhood. :yike:
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 17, 2013, 06:01:36 PM
I wouldn't be going anywhere without my gun that's for sure.:yeah: it amazes me how people don't think about animals adapting to their surroundings? it is very possible we just re-introduced a disease that will completely change our ecosystem! Like putting northern pike in a lake and then wondering why there is no trout left? The other issue i have on this board is lets have a hunting season, thats great but as they have found in idaho and montana a hunting season does little to effect the population of these animals! We couldn't control cougar populations without hounds and now we have a disease that may not be able to be managed without trapping and poison which i guarantee we won't get back!I don't know if you saw the thread about the meeting in Spokane last night. The biologist said that the populations in Idaho and Montana have so far above what was intended that hunters will never be able to restore them to intended levels.
What's sad is that the wolf lovers in Washington will likely have the legislators like Rankin stop any hunting season. It's most likely the tax payer will foot the entire bill for controlling wolves after they wipe out each rancher, one after another. The big question, what happens when wolves grab a kid or jogger? I know for a fact that there are kids who live where the smackout collared wolf is hanging out just a few miles from Colville. There is also at least two women who jog or walk in that same area frequently. How would you like to be standing outside waiting for the bus in that neighborhood. :yike:
Post by: hardkorrhunter on January 28, 2013, 05:00:21 PM
Post by: Smossy on January 28, 2013, 05:05:40 PM
Seems like its all the peta people that sit behind a desk and never venture into the woods are the ones to be defending them, not the people who actually spend time in the woods and see what they can actually do, how vicious they can be, and how destructive they can be to our big game numbers.
Just my :twocents:
I think they're gorgeous animals don't get it wrong, but like the other guy said, They were probably killed off in our state for a reason.
I don't do too much research on allot of these topics in here so what advantage do we get to reintroducing these things back into washington?
And if your all for bringing them back to the state don't take this as a personal attack against you its nothing of the sort.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 28, 2013, 05:17:04 PM
My thoughts on the wolves is we got rid of them once for a reason.
[/quot. I know this is preaching to the choir but there is a reason our forfathers killed off all the wolfs in the 1800's! They are absolutely good for nothin!!!!
Post by: Fishaholic on January 28, 2013, 06:10:13 PM
My thoughts on the wolves is we got rid of them once for a reason.
[/quot. I know this is preaching to the choir but there is a reason our forfathers killed off all the wolfs in the 1800's! They are absolutely good for nothin!!!!
they are so. they make good fir rugs and hats
Post by: hardkorrhunter on January 28, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
Post by: Special T on January 28, 2013, 09:27:06 PM
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 02:47:24 PM
Smossy, wolves have NEVER LEFT THIS STATE! The WDFW has closed coyote hunting in the NC cascades to protect wolves way back in the 90's... Here is the biggest beef most hunter have. Wolves from the great white north were deposited in YNP as an "Experiment" and then it morphed into bringing back an ESA protected species. While i don't have anything against wolves in general, I'm against the sub-pecies they brought down, how they used Pitman Robers funds to do it, and there are questions of legality of them importing more into ID. Any time you cram stuff down people's throats they get pissy... Ad that to the fact that most ESA related issues has more to do with non profits raiding gov coffers for "Attorney fee reimbursement" wile making bank really drives hunters mad. :twocents:Don't really care about the technicalities. I see no point in either species to exist in our state.
Wolves or coyotes. Kill them all. Guarantee neither will show mercy if your on the tail end of they're diet.
If someone really cares to enlighten me though on a valid reason why they should be here other than something pretty to look at, Then lets hear it.
Post by: cougarbart on January 30, 2013, 07:13:23 PM
Post by: Special T on January 31, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
:tup:Smossy, wolves have NEVER LEFT THIS STATE! The WDFW has closed coyote hunting in the NC cascades to protect wolves way back in the 90's... Here is the biggest beef most hunter have. Wolves from the great white north were deposited in YNP as an "Experiment" and then it morphed into bringing back an ESA protected species. While i don't have anything against wolves in general, I'm against the sub-pecies they brought down, how they used Pitman Robers funds to do it, and there are questions of legality of them importing more into ID. Any time you cram stuff down people's throats they get pissy... Ad that to the fact that most ESA related issues has more to do with non profits raiding gov coffers for "Attorney fee reimbursement" wile making bank really drives hunters mad. :twocents:Don't really care about the technicalities. I see no point in either species to exist in our state.
Wolves or coyotes. Kill them all. Guarantee neither will show mercy if your on the tail end of they're diet.
If someone really cares to enlighten me though on a valid reason why they should be here other than something pretty to look at, Then lets hear it.