More Hounds down due to Wolves in MT.

[Special T]

I don't have a problem with wolves per se, but i do with the "Experimental introduction" into ID and the YNP.  I think many were sold a scenario that is not what we have now. I eave seen more than a few documents that imply that the wolves brought into ID did NOT have the proper permits, and did not follow existing laws/rules.

Wolves have been in the Central Cascades for a LONG time. Hell the WDFW closed coyote season in the NC area because they didn't want people shooting the timber wolves 10 years ago!

Part of the reason why this issue is so complex is because of the tactic used by lawyers wrapped in the ESA.  They keep repeating the mantra that we need to recover the wolf, and any objection is cause to file a lawsuit and ring up legal bills that they get to collect at a later point...

So TF yes and no i disagree.    No i don't have problems with wolves, but the promises made earlier are not being follow now so i have problems debating what is "reasonable" since original intent and promises are ignored.

[turkeyfeather]

Would you agree that the current plan on management is a disaster waiting to happen? Cause the way I see this playing out is that landowners are going to increasingly have more problems with their pets and livestock. Sportsmen are going to find it harder and harder to find game. All because the wolf population will get out of hand if things keep getting dealt with in the same manner. This will eventually result in higher license and tag cost's to be able to deal with wolves after it's become a much bigger problem. And WDFW won't have the money cause alot of people will either quit hunting or go to another state. It just seems like a lose, lose situation for all of us.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

how honestly can you say wolves won't become as previliant as coyotes? 

Because that's not how wolves work. They're pack animals and need lots of room and are very territorial. Coyotes can survive anywhere including Los Angeles. They are small, don't need much cover, and will scavange anything. Coyotes became pests after wolves were exterminated. One thing wolves do is keep the competition down from other canines. That's one reason they are hard on dogs. By helping trim coyote #s, wolves help small game and birds survive and fawns. Plus coyotes kill more mature deer than people think. Go to youtube and search coyote kills deer. You can watch all kinds of videos.

Wolves vs Coyote

Two Coyotes take down a mature doe kills deer on trail cam

Coyote Kills Deer

[JCKILLSHOT]

Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.

[cougarbart]

how do you know how wolves work?  i have been told cougars are territorial and stay in the same area! whoa then did a study and found out that cougar from washington ended up in south dakota?  Really pack animals, so you won't find them by themselfs?  What im saying is your believing what someone tells you when in all honesty nobody knows how the wolf could adapt and learn to inhabit populous areas, cause all the studies of wolves where done in remote areas that have completely different food sources and geographics! Yes studys show common behavior and what we estimate they will do but with the landscape changing every day you or i have no idea what is going to happen!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.

You'd lose that bet.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

how do you know how wolves work?

Because I've lived and hunted around them most of my adult life.

Really pack animals, so you won't find them by themselfs?

Of course sometimes there are "lone wolves"  But that isn't their social structure. They stick together because that ups the survival chances of the pack. Hunting solitary is fine for small game, but when taking on an elk or a moose, there is safety and success in numbers.

[Bob33]

Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.

You'd lose that bet.

I'll take the bet.
www.youtube.com
"coyote kills" in search box: 1,610 results
"wolf kills" in search box: 10,500 results.

[JCKILLSHOT]

a lot of the "coyote kills" videos are guys shooting coyotes.

[RG]

Go to youtube and look up wolf kills I bet you find a ton more videos then you do of coyotes.

You'd lose that bet.

I'll take the bet.
www.youtube.com
"coyote kills" in search box: 1,610 results
"wolf kills" in search box: 10,500 results.

Ha!  But it's unfair you know.  It's probably some kind of predjudice toward wolves, they are a special gifted species deserving special attention not afforded to all the other game animals you know. 

Sitka, again I suggest that wolves are going to cause an environmental mess if not managed better than they currently are.  They will gain momentum and wildlife management will be playing catch up from now on.  They will even be a detriment to themselves because, in the areas where they are spreading, there isn't going to be enough food to go around.  They are large animals that need a lot of nourishment each.  Add to that the number of wolves in a pack and it takes a pretty good meat market to keep them going.  In Washington there are very few systems that can support them very long.  Coyotes get by on mice and other small rodents with the occasional rabbit size meal thrown in.  Not so wolves.  They are going to take more and more domestic animals because they will need to survive.  They always kill dogs when they get a chance, it's their nature.  Not so coyotes unless it's a pretty small dog or there happen to be a few coyotes running together.  Wolves are pretty much a menace to the environment as we know it in 2013.  The only smart management plan I've heard is Wyoming's.  They said "there are only a few places that wolves make sense.  They will be game there and a varmint everywhere else because we don't want to deal with them harassing our citizens".  That's a novel concept, putting the citizens of the state and their wellbeing first. 

[cougarbart]

I didn't think you could hunt them in washington sitka? oh you lived and hunted them in alaska? Well washington is just like alaska large tracts of uninhabitated wolf habitat, plenty of caribou and moose in washington Its a completely different ecosystem down here!  I myself doubt they will be in populated cities like coyotes, but to say they won't learn to hang around small populated places and make livestock a main food source is crazy!  Yes washington has some habitat that could hold small population of wolves but we have already reached maximum capaticity in certain areas!

[Fishaholic]

I didn't think you could hunt them in washington sitka? oh you lived and hunted them in alaska? Well washington is just like alaska large tracts of uninhabitated wolf habitat, plenty of caribou and moose in washington Its a completely different ecosystem down here!  I myself doubt they will be in populated cities like coyotes, but to say they won't learn to hang around small populated places and make livestock a main food source is crazy!  Yes washington has some habitat that could hold small population of wolves but we have already reached maximum capaticity in certain areas!

  have you ever been out to promise land or anywere close? I think after you seen that you will  change you   mind.  there are alot of areas in western Wa that could hold wolfs. do research  the WDFW killed 6 of them last year in Wa.

[cougarbart]

if you were directing to me, i said it could hold small groups of wolves?

[Fishaholic]

it could hold a more then a few small groups. i have seen a wolf out there and many loggers have to. i called the game department and they said there had been more then  one report of a wolfs sightings in the area i was in.  i think they are all over western Wa. i think people just dont see them in the woods.

[cougarbart]

ya rethink it again!  Im not saying there is not wolves but factor in how much wintering area and game by habiitat!  alot of the cascades is habitat in the summer but come winter wolfs don't live on snow!  I have hound hunted over there alot since the late 70's and what you don't realize is every wolf in the cascades is going to be down low come dec-march!  now how much area do you have for a large population of wolves?