Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 09:34:41 PM
Range Riders are basically people on horses in cattle graze areas. The idea is a presence of humans in close proximity will have a deterring effect on wolves. They also serve as trained observers and locate/report depredation by wolves.
Howling for Justice, Conservation Northwest, Defenders of Wildlife etc etc are basically throwing money at WDFW trying to get range riders. It's seen as a last ditch effort as other means have proven ineffective.
There has been some success of range riders in MT, and WDFW is saying the Blackfoot area is a good example to use for Washington's program. It's slated to expand.
Links will be tossed up in this thread, go ahead and put some in if you find them as well .
Please stay on topic! This thread is for RANGE RIDER program.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 22, 2014, 09:39:23 PM
Post by: snowpack on January 22, 2014, 09:41:47 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 09:47:45 PM
state employee or a contracted private outfit? I don't think I could be for larger government.
Right now they are contracted private individuals, the whole thing is just in it's infancy.
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 09:51:21 PM
http://www.conservationnw.org/what-we-do/wildlife-habitat/gray-wolf/range-riding-in-washington (http://www.conservationnw.org/what-we-do/wildlife-habitat/gray-wolf/range-riding-in-washington)
Quote
Range riding in Washington
— filed under: ranchlands, Washington's wolves
Range riding is a powerful tool protecting livestock and wolves. Conservation Northwest and WA Department of Fish and Wildlife and a local rancher in 2012 established a pilot range rider project in northeastern Washington.
Dawson Ranch, courtesy Inland NW Land Trust
Dawson Ranch, courtesy Inland NW Land Trust From the fall 2012 edition of the Conservation Northwest quarterly
by Jay Kehne, Outreach associate, Omak
When cattle ranchers John and Jeff Dawson turned their cattle out in the summer of 2011 to graze on their Colville National Forest allotment, they knew that the recently discovered Smackout Pack of wolves might cause them some problems. It was the Dawsons who actually first discovered the pack and reported it to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife with good intentions of doing what was right for both their cattle and the wolves.
But these wolves turned out to be very wary, and the agency’s efforts to trap and collar them was at first unsuccessful. Having a collar on even one member of a wolf pack gives biologists and ranchers hope that by knowing where the wolves are in relation to cattle, “incidents” can be kept to a minimum. With the Smackout Pack avoiding all trapping locations, the Dawsons just had to hope that this pack would not start to consider calves as prey....
When wolves and cattle overlap
Wolves typically hunt by testing, or pushing, a herd of animals to run, and then singling out the weakest, youngest, or oldest animals to kill. As one Alberta rancher put it, “if a calf or yearling runs when pressed by a wolf pack... they die.” Yet recent efforts by groups of ranchers in places like Alberta, Montana, and Idaho show a solution. Having a human, especially one on horseback, in and around a rancher’s cattle for the entire grazing season can lower wolf/cattle incidents. It helps calm cattle and disrupts wolves hunting patterns. This practice is called “range riding” and after the first grazing season’s losses the Dawsons were willing to give it a try....
Read more, pages 6-7
More on non-lethal methods at work
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 10:08:44 PM
Quote
After Confirming Wolf-Calf Attack In Wedge, WDFW To Focus On Minimizing Repeat
By Andy Walgamott, on July 25th, 2013
WDFW won’t reappraise another recent depredation at a nearby ranch in the Wedge, but staffers will be working closely with a livestock operator who earlier this week lost a 100-pound, 1-month-old calf after a confirmed wolf attack.
“Because a wolf did this one doesn’t mean a wolf did that one,” said the agency’s Steve Pozzanghera in Spokane early this afternoon.
The other incident involved a less-than-24-hours-old calf that was basically eaten down to the spine and head. It was owned by the McIrvins of the Diamond M who believe a wolf grabbed it out of its enclosure. They questioned WDFW’s findings that it couldn’t be confirmed as a wolf. Both wolves and coyotes prey on calves and there was sign of both species in the area, Pozzanghera says.
For the time being, WDFW will focus on minimizing the chances of another attack on the second rancher’s stock.
A WDFW-contracted range rider is now patrolling the private pasture near McKinley Mt. just southeast of the tiny border crossing of Laurier where the attack occurred and 50 cow-calf pairs are grazing, and Pozzanghera says other horsemen and able-bodied volunteers will be put into the woods there to establish more human presence.
“We believe this is a single wolf,” he said.
It’s unclear if it is one of the two that were seen here just six short weeks after WDFW took out six members of the Wedge Pack last September for repeated depredations, or if it’s a transient animal. Unlike last summer when a WDFW trapper captured and attached a GPS device on the Wedge alpha male, no wolves in this country are currently collared.
If any good came out of last summer, it’s that state biologists, game wardens as well as county deputies got a lot of first-hand lessons about what a wolf attack looks like while dealing with over a dozen injured or killed calves and cows owned by Diamond M.
Speaking to this week’s depredation and what signs made it a confirmed attack, Pozzanghera said, “It’s the severity of the muscle damage of the injuries. You quickly rule out coyote to be able to inflict that level of damage.”
The calf, which survived the attack but later died, also bore the classic hallmarks of a wolf attack — bite and claw marks in certain parts of the hide.
“Compare all that to last year and this is in the wheelhouse of wolf attacks,” Pozzanghera said.
WDFW’s depredation report reads:
Classification justification: Significant traumatic injuries consistent in location and severity with wolf attacks confirmed in same area in 2012 grazing season. Orientation and location of injuries not consistent with predator signatures of bear or felid species. Injuries severe enough to exclude coyote predation.
IMAGE AND COMMENT FROM WDFW INVESTIGATION INTO CALF DEPREDATION IN THE WEDGE. (WDFW)
IMAGE AND COMMENT FROM WDFW INVESTIGATION INTO CALF DEPREDATION IN THE WEDGE. (WDFW)
wedge 3
IMAGE AND COMMENT FROM WDFW INVESTIGATION INTO CALF DEPREDATION IN THE WEDGE. (WDFW)
wedge 1
IMAGE AND COMMENT FROM WDFW INVESTIGATION INTO CALF DEPREDATION IN THE WEDGE. (WDFW)
wedge dep
IMAGE AND COMMENT FROM WDFW INVESTIGATION INTO CALF DEPREDATION IN THE WEDGE. (WDFW)
The operator, whose identity is being protected but who is a neighbor to the McIrvins (who we overheard were getting as many as 150 nasty calls a day last summer) and had a wolf in his calving pen in late winter 2012, is eligible for compensation. If requested, WDFW staffers could help him file a claim.
He’ll probably take up the offer of extra eyes in the woods faster. The depredation may have been the end result of some recent unusual cattle behavior. From WDFW’s report:
Additional comments or notes: Owner informed investigators that his cattle broke out of the allotment and private ground boundary fence and came to the ranch on Saturday, July 20th. While fixing the fence from the cattle break out, owners heard a single wolf howl at 4:55 PM on Monday, July 22nd. The howl came from the east and up the slope of McKinley Mt. owner also informed investigators he lost 12 calves in 2012 instead of the usual 1-2 over the years.
For the time being, a state wolf hunt is off the table, Pozzanghera says.
“While this is a significant hit to a small operator, this event does not trigger lethal removal,” he said.
Instead, they will monitor the area for sign and hope for an opportunity to capture the wolf and collar it.
Last October, as state wolf managers briefed the Fish & Wildlife Commission and a large public audience on the Wedge action, we reported:
WDFW knows it needs to increase the use of nonlethal tools earlier in conflicts, [Dave Ware, Game Division manager] acknowledges.
Then he says that lethal removals may need to be implemented earlier on if other measures don’t work.
One thing they’ve learned this summer is the need to reduce the food needs of the pack, he says.
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 10:12:47 PM
REGION 1
Wolf Management
District 1: Specialist Shepherd, Biologist Becker, and Regional Director Pozzanghera attended the Steven County Commission monthly public meeting and discussed various wolf issues including pack size, dispersal, the contract range rider, and wolf observations.
Specialist Shepherd attended the Coordinated Resource Management field trip sponsored by the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) in Smackout Meadows. Specialist Shepherd presented the history of wolves within the Smackout area and some of the management issues and methods that have occurred in the last several years.
Specialist Shepherd kept in contact with the contract range rider who worked in the Tiger Hill allotment, the Wedge, and near Spirit Junction in the Smackout wolf territory.
GOAL 1: CONSERVE AND PROTECT NATIVE FISH AND WILDIFE
http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/wildlife_weekly/2013/wildlife_weekly_2013nov04.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/wildlife_weekly/2013/wildlife_weekly_2013nov04.pdf)
REGION 1
Wolf Management
District 1: Assistant District Wildlife Biologist Prince assisted Wolf Biologist Spence with routine wolf monitoring and tracking in the Smackout wolf territory. Specialist Shepherd discussed development of compost sites for cattle carcasses with Washington Department of Transportation (WSDOT) employees in Colville and livestock producers in the outlying area. Specialist Shepherd met with a local cattle producer and family at their ranch and discussed wolves, their federal grazing allotment, and range riding efforts. Equipment and paperwork were exchanged. Specialist Shepherd discussed work duties with a current contract range rider who received a contract extension. Specialist Shepherd also met with and discussed contract contents with a prospective range rider who will be under contract during the summer of 2014.
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Quote
WHY SCCA IS OPPOSED TO WDFW MANAGEMENT CONTRACTS AND CONCERNS ABOUT NON-LETHAL METHODS
Posted on November 29, 2012 by stevenscountycattlemen
Image
Non-lethal methods are limited in their effectiveness. The effectiveness of non-lethal deterrents is limited in its ability to deter wolves on all levels. Cattlemen we talked to in Wallowa County in Oregon had the following feedback regarding non-lethal the methods they used:
Fladry: Wolves have killed cattle both within and without fladry fencing. The largest area fencing can cover is 40 acres. Trampling of calves and smaller cattle within small fladry corrals is common.
Range Rider program: The Range Riders are often good at finding dead cattle, but not at preventing attacks. A range rider may be effective for a limited time depending on the factors of terrain, the available GPS collar data and road access. The program is also cost prohibitive. At $22,000 per range rider (roughly $100 a cow in a recent test case), the total cost to protect Stevens County’s 23,000 head would be $2.3 million annually. For the region, the cost would be $7.5 million.
Rag boxes: Rag boxes only go off when the wolf is within a certain proximity and essentially within a straight line of the box. In uneven terrain, it can be difficult to get enough coverage with the boxes to be effective.
Guard dogs: Are impractical for cattle which don’t bunch up at night like sheep. Cows are also unlikely to be comfortable with the presence of a dog after being harassed by wolves.
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 10:21:54 PM
http://missoulian.com/lifestyles/territory/predator-patrol-blackfoot-ranchers-rest-easier-knowing-their-stock-is/article_255b70fc-b518-11de-b4fc-001cc4c002e0.html (http://missoulian.com/lifestyles/territory/predator-patrol-blackfoot-ranchers-rest-easier-knowing-their-stock-is/article_255b70fc-b518-11de-b4fc-001cc4c002e0.html)
Post by: Wazukie on January 22, 2014, 10:35:13 PM
Post by: deaner on January 22, 2014, 10:39:54 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 10:41:45 PM
Eventually I see Washington's Range Rider program morphing into something closer to what Idaho's doing with their hired hunter.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/12/17/2931287/fish-and-game-turns-to-hired-hunterpetition.html (http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/12/17/2931287/fish-and-game-turns-to-hired-hunterpetition.html)
It's pretty clear that range riders have limited effectiveness as prevention, and that's the goal. I'd like to see WDFW hire hunters and old cowboys to range ride, not some hippy from the coast that'll never have the trust or cooperation from ranchers.
WDFW also needs to not accept money from wolf groups for this program. Nothing prevents wolf advocacy groups from "going for a horseback ride" on public lands, but they'll never be welcome or included in ranch life as they're fully opposed to public grazing.
http://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/tag/public-grazing-allotments-colville-national-forest/ (http://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/tag/public-grazing-allotments-colville-national-forest/)
Quote
It didn’t take Washington WDFW long to act like every other state fish and game agency, where wolves call home. They’re targeting the entire Wedge Pack of 8-11 wolves, including the pups, for death, over a few cow losses, cows that are grazing on THE AMERICAN PEOPLE’S PUBLIC LAND!!
Here’s a message to subsidized, welfare ranchers. GET YOUR FRIGGIN COWS OFF OUR PUBLIC LAND! You are the problem, not the wolves. If you don’t like wolves, then round-up your cows and put them in a secure enclosure ON YOUR LAND with an electric fence. fladry, range riders and whatever else you have to do to protect your investment. It’s not the American people’s job to subsidize your poor animal husbandry practices.
Post by: Wazukie on January 22, 2014, 10:45:50 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2014, 10:48:21 PM
I know the person who was hired in my area to pilot this program and I can tell you that he is a friend of the cattlemen and not some hippy from the city. I haven't talked with him much in the last couple of month or so since the cattle were brought in
That is very positive news! I was worried they were hiring wolf advocates like the one in the wedge
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 23, 2014, 07:09:18 AM
Post by: flatbkman on January 23, 2014, 07:24:53 AM
Post by: jackmaster on January 23, 2014, 07:31:18 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 23, 2014, 07:42:19 AM
We don't need another corrupt government agency, WDFW, that is bought off by greenies monies, to start another new program that will fail and the hunter/public will end up footing for an action that will never work. Then, just like anything else that the government does, we can't get rid of it and it costs millions upon millions of dollars a year for nothing.
Government waste at it's best..............
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 08:52:23 AM
what does a job like that pay? what kind of bennys? i want that job :tup: i dont mind shootn wolves or cats, i would think a range rider is there to serve and PROTECT, i could do lots of protecting, i can even ride a little, i wonder if a fella could ride a quad instead :chuckle: i would hate to fall off a horse, thats along ways to the ground :dunno: :chuckle:
If this were put on by the ranchers through their association/s or even WDFW...I'd be in line with you, but it's not.
Cattlemen and WDFW help pay for it, Conservation Northwest hires the people and shares the cost .
They'd weed you out in a second.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 23, 2014, 09:16:50 AM
985 South Elm Street
Colville Wa
$30 each
Social hour: 5pm
Prime Rib Dinner: 6pm
Social hour
Dinner
Games
Raffles
Live & Silent auctions
Buy a ticket and show up. You might learn something that isn't being reported from the liberal media spin.
I'm going, how about you KF ?
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 09:19:00 AM
what does a job like that pay? what kind of bennys? i want that job :tup: i dont mind shootn wolves or cats, i would think a range rider is there to serve and PROTECT, i could do lots of protecting, i can even ride a little, i wonder if a fella could ride a quad instead :chuckle: i would hate to fall off a horse, thats along ways to the ground :dunno: :chuckle:
If this were put on by the ranchers through their association/s or even WDFW...I'd be in line with you, but it's not.
Cattlemen and WDFW help pay for it, Conservation Northwest hires the people and shares the cost .
They'd weed you out in a second.
I think Conservation Northwest pays half and WDFW pays half. :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 09:26:28 AM
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 09:32:55 AM
I know the person who was hired in my area to pilot this program and I can tell you that he is a friend of the cattlemen and not some hippy from the city. I haven't talked with him much in the last couple of month or so since the cattle were brought in
That is very positive news! I was worried they were hiring wolf advocates like the one in the wedge
The range rider at Smackout is a friend of the cattlemen too.
Post by: jackmaster on January 23, 2014, 12:16:11 PM
my grandpa taught me to have a B.S in B.S i didnt see any wolves today boss ;) ;) well why are you missing some rounds, oh yeah there was this rabid coyote that was chasing my horse/qaud and i had to scare him away or damn when i fell off my horse/qaud i must have lost a dozen, or i shot a few farmers cows to feed the wolves ;) ;) :chuckle:what does a job like that pay? what kind of bennys? i want that job :tup: i dont mind shootn wolves or cats, i would think a range rider is there to serve and PROTECT, i could do lots of protecting, i can even ride a little, i wonder if a fella could ride a quad instead :chuckle: i would hate to fall off a horse, thats along ways to the ground :dunno: :chuckle:
If this were put on by the ranchers through their association/s or even WDFW...I'd be in line with you, but it's not.
Cattlemen and WDFW help pay for it, Conservation Northwest hires the people and shares the cost .
They'd weed you out in a second.
Post by: Jingles on January 23, 2014, 12:20:36 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2014, 06:12:31 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Let the cattlemen, the landowner etc. hire the range riders and pay for them. Keep WDFW completely out of it. Will range riders work...no clue.
Read this if you care too:
http://stevenscountycattlemen.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/do-wolves-only-eat-cattle-on-public-land/ (http://stevenscountycattlemen.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/do-wolves-only-eat-cattle-on-public-land/)
Post by: HawkCreek on January 23, 2014, 08:08:13 PM
If they are enough of a problem that the state needs to kill them, then it's time to open a season. Make it a special drawing or whatever you want but stop the stupidity.
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 08:23:45 PM
toss out 200 cattle on a 30 mile long range in brush you can't see 100 feet though, you'd need help.
Post by: HawkCreek on January 23, 2014, 08:36:54 PM
If you got a small operation on a couple hundred acres, ya.
toss out 200 cattle on a 30 mile long range in brush you can't see 100 feet though, you'd need help.
If that was directed at me we're well over 200 head.
I realize this is a program for outfits that lease ground up in the trees not for places that own outright most of what we graze. I still think it's a dead end idea. I've shot coyotes out of the barn yard before (yes I know coyotes and wolves are different animals). I know other ranchers that have had bears or cougars in their barn yards. I do not believe someone riding around on a horse is going to keep wolves from killing things unless the person on the horse is killing the wolves first.
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 08:53:01 PM
but you're exactly right. The wolves come in at night, or on the other side of the range. A person just can't be in the right place at the right time.
cattle are spread wide, most often times the range rider follows the birds to a kill site. A good range rider always has their eyes in the sky :chuckle:
speaking of eyes...I would like to lay eyes on this contract that conservation northwest is having the ranchers sign off on to get into their various wolf prevention programs, I know they're being lured in with promise of compensation for loss of livestock to wolves.
No one in Stevens CO will sign off on it, I'd like to see it.
Anyone got a link?
Post by: HORSEPOWER on January 23, 2014, 09:00:02 PM
If you got a small operation on a couple hundred acres, ya.
toss out 200 cattle on a 30 mile long range in brush you can't see 100 feet though, you'd need help.
If that was directed at me we're well over 200 head.
I realize this is a program for outfits that lease ground up in the trees not for places that own outright most of what we graze. I still think it's a dead end idea. I've shot coyotes out of the barn yard before (yes I know coyotes and wolves are different animals). I know other ranchers that have had bears or cougars in their barn yards. I do not believe someone riding around on a horse is going to keep wolves from killing things unless the person on the horse is killing the wolves first.
With that scenario, not even 10 range riders, in that one area, are going help.
And on top of that, they will be spending most of their time hauling around all the property of land owners that they're not welcome on, just to get to the next gate they can open.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2014, 09:10:36 PM
I think it's a silly idea. We can ride out and check our own cattle if it comes to that, no sense in paying the state to do it.:yeah:
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 09:10:37 PM
The wedge pack is fully rebuilt, some of the dogs in that pack have had beef in their mouths.
They were young this last summer, but next summer they'll be prime adults, with some big litters.
conservation northwest has stated supporting the removal of the wedge pack was a "tragic mistake", and vowed to never allow it to happen again.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2014, 09:16:03 PM
conservation northwest has stated supporting the removal of the wedge pack was a "tragic mistake", and vowed to never allow it to happen again.Yes, and WDFW complains that they had little to no hunter support when they proposed and carried out this task so I kind of doubt they would want to go through that again.
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 09:22:19 PM
Let the cattlemen, the landowner etc. hire the range riders and pay for them. Keep WDFW completely out of it. Will range riders work...no clue.
This is the typical response those of us in wolf affected areas are accustomed to seeing from people who do not have to deal with the problem. :twocents: :bdid:
conservation northwest has stated supporting the removal of the wedge pack was a "tragic mistake", and vowed to never allow it to happen again.Yes, and WDFW complains that they had little to no hunter support when they proposed and carried out this task so I kind of doubt they would want to go through that again.
Please show us where they state that?
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 09:23:51 PM
I wish they weren't running polled cattle, be nice if there was horns on em :chuckle:
Heck, they should run longhorns then I'd be picking up dead heads!
Hey CAMPMEAT would you suggest that at the next cattle meeting, tell em all they should switch to longhorns so we can pick up "sheds" :chuckle:
Post by: sebek556 on January 23, 2014, 09:28:16 PM
Post by: HORSEPOWER on January 23, 2014, 09:31:22 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 09:33:56 PM
How can the edge complain of little hunter support when they kicked us away at the mention if it? I didn't see anything from them if hey we need to get rid if the pack so put in for tags, nope they didn't want us there. The only wanted people who's pay check they can dangle in front of them if they dared say how bad it was or is going to get.
Not only that but they were harassing the crap of the hunters going in that area, couldn't tell them to keep out but that was the message.
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 09:53:07 PM
There was a wolf in our yard Monday night (couldn't see others but more than likely they were there), so if they are this bold, and we are already out caring for our livestock and property, I'm pretty sure hired range riders aren't going to do the trick either.
They tried this non-lethal silliness in Oregon, the wolves kept eating beef and they had to kill some wolves anyway. :twocents:
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2014, 10:11:23 PM
Let the cattlemen, the landowner etc. hire the range riders and pay for them. Keep WDFW completely out of it. Will range riders work...no clue.
This is the typical response those of us in wolf affected areas are accustomed to seeing from people who do not have to deal with the problem. :twocents: :bdid:
Sorry bearpaw...unlike you I do not believe more government programs will solve wolf conflicts, nor do I think an agency funded largely by hunters should provide financial support to the cattle industry. I think the state should allow livestock producers the flexibility to take care of problem wolves themselves.conservation northwest has stated supporting the removal of the wedge pack was a "tragic mistake", and vowed to never allow it to happen again.Yes, and WDFW complains that they had little to no hunter support when they proposed and carried out this task so I kind of doubt they would want to go through that again.
Please show us where they state that?
Multiple times at GMAC meetings the assistant director, Nate Pamplin, has expressed disappointment at how little support was voiced to the governors office or other elected officials about the WDFW wolf removal being a good thing. The greenie groups sent 10's of thousands of emails in one day and had the phone lines so tied up even the Governor could not reach her own office. The main point here is that folks like to kick wdfw any chance they get...but WDFW does something many on this forum I would think find beneficial and where is the support?? One of my biggest points of contention with folks on this forum is that WDFW is not the enemy. They are perhaps our most important ally in getting reasonable wolf management in Washington state. Lets not make them enemy number 1 as so many on here are quick to do.
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 10:34:29 PM
Let the cattlemen, the landowner etc. hire the range riders and pay for them. Keep WDFW completely out of it. Will range riders work...no clue.
This is the typical response those of us in wolf affected areas are accustomed to seeing from people who do not have to deal with the problem. :twocents: :bdid:
Sorry bearpaw...unlike you I do not believe more government programs will solve wolf conflicts, nor do I think an agency funded largely by hunters should provide financial support to the cattle industry. I think the state should allow livestock producers the flexibility to take care of problem wolves themselves.
I'm sorry too, but unlike you, I am able to understand that WDFW and the wolf lovers in this state have forced unmanaged numbers of wolves onto these ranchers and refused to let ranchers and hunters control the population, for that reason the state should cough up for the cost of protection.conservation northwest has stated supporting the removal of the wedge pack was a "tragic mistake", and vowed to never allow it to happen again.Yes, and WDFW complains that they had little to no hunter support when they proposed and carried out this task so I kind of doubt they would want to go through that again.
Please show us where they state that?
Multiple times at GMAC meetings the assistant director, Nate Pamplin, has expressed disappointment at how little support was voiced to the governors office or other elected officials about the WDFW wolf removal being a good thing. The greenie groups sent 10's of thousands of emails in one day and had the phone lines so tied up even the Governor could not reach her own office. The main point here is that folks like to kick wdfw any chance they get...but WDFW does something many on this forum I would think find beneficial and where is the support?? One of my biggest points of contention with folks on this forum is that WDFW is not the enemy. They are perhaps our most important ally in getting reasonable wolf management in Washington state. Lets not make them enemy number 1 as so many on here are quick to do.
I will not give WDFW a free pass on this when they promoted and adopted the most liberal wolf plan for the smallest and most human populated western state! WDFW sided with Conservation Northwest which is run by an Earth Firster. WDFW has ignored data from other states and provinces on predation impacts and has given little consideration for the impacts of wolves on Washington's true endangered specie "caribou". Nate was trying to garner support, but many people in NE WA are still shaking their heads that WDFW drug their feet for so long.
Despite disappointment I realize that WDFW needed support on their management action, I actually sent a message supporting WDFW for their actions, did you send a message?
Post by: sebek556 on January 23, 2014, 10:45:50 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2014, 11:03:08 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 11:11:06 PM
I don't make enemies or go out of my way to blast the people that manage resources I care about. I could fill volumes of books with things I think WDFW could do better or differently or more efficiently...its a big reason I volunteer time on their councils...but they have a tough job and it does no good for hunters to constantly bash them.
Yes, agreed, I do not always bash them, I actually wish I could find more to thank them for, but just can't find much to thank them for when we are talking wolves. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 11:12:58 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2014, 11:13:18 PM
I don't make enemies or go out of my way to blast the people that manage resources I care about. I could fill volumes of books with things I think WDFW could do better or differently or more efficiently...its a big reason I volunteer time on their councils...but they have a tough job and it does no good for hunters to constantly bash them.
You have no idea if range riders will work, why are you then here?
I'd like to stay on topic, there's plenty of other wolf threads to obfuscate.
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2014, 11:16:50 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2014, 11:17:58 PM
back to range riders...
Post by: nwwanderer on January 23, 2014, 11:53:06 PM
Post by: rasbo on January 24, 2014, 05:28:34 AM
Post by: Special T on January 24, 2014, 06:52:50 AM
Post by: wolfbait on January 28, 2014, 06:37:33 PM
In wyoming the USFWS determined that the only way to deal with livestock killing wolves was to kill the entire pack, including pups. Why does WDFW and OR think that wolves change once they cross state lines?
18 years Later,,,,,,And WDF&wolves have NO Clue<
I think Special T stated it best, using methods that have already been tried and failed, WA ranchers are being "slow played" and so are the fools that believe more habitat, and hunting wolves as a game animal will control wolves.
Call your representatives and demand action.
Post by: jackmaster on January 29, 2014, 06:52:17 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 29, 2014, 07:33:30 AM
This won't work. A range rider can't be everywhere and these organizations will run out of money sooner or later. It's a bandaid. We need to manage these eaters now and not with range riders.
Post by: jackmaster on January 29, 2014, 08:04:57 AM
Using range riders because we have a wolf problem is the proverbial putting lipstick on a pig. The plan is still a pig. What are they going to do for the people who will no longer be able to walk their dog or go hiking because we refuse to manage these critters and put the fear of man into them? Maybe they should do like they do at WSU when a woman is walking home at night by herself - have chaperons who will shoo the wolves away just like the range riders.hell pianno this aint even a bandaid, this is like putting a tournequet on a severed limb and not tighting it down :chuckle: still wouldnt mind having one of those jobs though, on your own blown big holes through wolves oh i mean protecting the wolves and making sure they are safe and sound :tup:
This won't work. A range rider can't be everywhere and these organizations will run out of money sooner or later. It's a bandaid. We need to manage these eaters now and not with range riders.