Post by: HntnFsh on March 10, 2014, 04:26:05 PM
WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/)
March 10, 2014
Contact: Cindy Le Fleur, (360) 696-6211
Three tributaries of Columbia River
designated wild steelhead gene banks
OLYMPIA - The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) today designated three tributaries of the lower Columbia River as "wild steelhead gene banks," where it will no longer release steelhead raised in fish hatcheries.
Starting this year, WDFW will no longer plant hatchery steelhead in the East Fork Lewis River or the North Fork Toutle/Green River. The Wind River, which has not been stocked with steelhead since 1997, will also be off-limits to any future releases.
As part of that plan, WDFW will redirect more than 50,000 hatchery smolts previously slated for the East Fork Lewis River into the Washougal River and Salmon Creek, and is working to place another 25,000 smolts previously earmarked for the North Fork Toutle/Green River.
Director Phil Anderson said those actions are part of a statewide effort to help conserve and restore wild steelhead, particularly those listed for protection under the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA). All three watersheds designated as gene banks today support wild steelhead listed as threatened since 1998.
"We are building a future where wild steelhead - our state fish - can be enjoyed as part of the natural heritage of our state," Anderson said. "We will continue to support fisheries with hatchery production in selected areas of southwest Washington, while ensuring that wild fish can be given the best opportunity possible to rebuild and flourish in the future."
Studies have shown that hatchery fish can compete with wild steelhead for spawning partners, and that interbreeding can reduce survival rates for wild steelhead, Anderson said.
WDFW first identified wild steelhead gene banks as a recovery strategy in the Statewide Steelhead Management Plan, adopted by the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission in 2008. The department designated the Sol Duc River on the Olympic Peninsula as the state's first official wild steelhead gene bank in 2012.
Cindy LeFleur, WDFW regional fish manager, said the department's selection of the three gene banks in the lower Columbia River Basin was based on criteria outlined in the statewide plan and public input received over the past two years. Three local advisory groups appointed by WDFW issued recommendations for specific areas, drawing hundreds of public comments - pro and con - at public meetings and in messages to the department.
"A key requirement for wild steelhead gene banks is that they have a self-sustaining wild steelhead population," LeFleur said. "The goal is to protect those primary populations and allow them to propagate with minimal interference from hatchery fish."
To support that effort, WDFW plans to open fishing seasons in the new wild steelhead zones targeting hatchery fish, which will continue to return to those rivers for at least two more years, LeFleur said. Catch-and-release fishing for wild steelhead may also be allowed in later years.
Meanwhile, WDFW will continue to support fishing opportunities in other local rivers, LeFleur said. Those rivers include the mainstem Toutle, South Fork Toutle, Cowlitz, Kalama, Salmon, Washougal, and mainstem and North Fork Lewis rivers.
Jim Scott, assistant director of WDFW's Fish Program, said the department will forward its final decisions on the gene banks to NOAA-Fisheries, the federal agency that oversees salmon and steelhead recovery in southwest Washington.
"NOAA-Fisheries has strongly supported our efforts to create these new wild steelhead zones, and we've communicated frequently throughout the process," he said.
Scott noted that WDFW plans to create more wild steelhead gene banks throughout the state in the years ahead.
"During the next six months, we will be focusing on establishing wild steelhead gene banks for Puget Sound and lower Columbia tributaries below the Cowlitz River," Scott said. "As with the plan announced today, our goal will be to continue to make those fish available for area fisheries where doing so is consistent with our steelhead conservation goals."
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Post by: Shane54 on March 10, 2014, 08:52:23 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 10, 2014, 08:58:16 PM
This frickin pisses me off! Really the north fork of the green??! This is crapThis isn't the Green River in King County
Post by: HntnFsh on March 10, 2014, 09:28:45 PM
This frickin pisses me off! Really the north fork of the green??! This is crapThis isn't the Green River in King County
Nope the Green and Toutle out this way.
Post by: Bullkllr on March 11, 2014, 07:49:45 AM
I know less about the EF Lewis, but that is a ton of past opportunity gone there... at least...
Post by: JODakota on March 11, 2014, 09:15:42 AM
Post by: hollymaster on March 11, 2014, 09:27:06 AM
I'd like to hear why you guys think this is crap? Wouldn't you rather have steelhead supporting themselves and doing well rather than paying somebody to rear them in steel pens?
In the end it "might be great" but..... It is wdfw we are talking about. :o
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2014, 09:29:59 AM
I'd like to hear why you guys think this is crap? Wouldn't you rather have steelhead supporting themselves and doing well rather than paying somebody to rear them in steel pens?:chuckle: Yeah guys, didn't you know the decline of native steelhead is a result of hatcheries. All it takes for natives to bounce back and "support themselves" is elimination of hatchery fish in their home streams. :chuckle:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 11, 2014, 09:39:58 AM
I'd like to hear why you guys think this is crap? Wouldn't you rather have steelhead supporting themselves and doing well rather than paying somebody to rear them in steel pens?:chuckle: Yeah guys, didn't you know the decline of native steelhead is a result of hatcheries. All it takes for natives to bounce back and "support themselves" is elimination of hatchery fish in their home streams. :chuckle:
I think that any creature that has to go back to a specific place to survive should go extinct. But the liberals say it's our fault that they can't, and their welfare is above ours! :bash:
Post by: Dhoey07 on March 11, 2014, 09:48:20 AM
Since when is the "native steelhead" our state fish? I thought it was the steelhead??
Something to notice, when they talk about studies regarding hatchery fish interacting with native fish they state that the hatchery fish can compete with natives for food and spawning grounds and that they can effect native population, instead of hatchery fish will or do.
I think that the state is pissing off more people with these banks than they are making happy.
Also the state says that this is "ensuring that wild fish can be given the best opportunity possible to rebuild and flourish in the future", that's almost laughable.....if it wasn't so sad that people believe this
Post by: WSU on March 11, 2014, 09:52:04 AM
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2014, 10:06:14 AM
I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else? I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality? :chuckle:
Post by: snowpack on March 11, 2014, 10:07:46 AM
I'd like to hear why you guys think this is crap? Wouldn't you rather have steelhead supporting themselves and doing well rather than paying somebody to rear them in steel pens?I'm not against the recovery of wild fish. I am for the continuity of fishing. If they determine that eliminating hatchery fish does help wild fish return then I would go with a slow phase out as opposed to this cold turkey quitting they seem to be going for. Why kill off the recreation and the supporting industries with years of shutdown when they could reduce hatchery plants over time? The wild fish have survived having their hatchery counterparts in the rivers with them for over a hundred years in some places, I don't think a drawdown of over 10 years would is going to hurt (other than maybe WDFW's $$$). Seems like they don't take into account all the other affected businesses supported by the sport anglers--motels, boat manufacturers, rod builders, sporting goods stores, fuel sales, restaurants, etc. Plus the sudden shutdowns make the fishermen that are already geared up for the season seek what is actually open and puts enormous pressure on a different area--temporary local boom, but seems to be followed by a shutdown---because I guess WDFW couldn't foresee 10X as many people fishing the only places they didn't shutdown. :dunno:
Post by: WSU on March 11, 2014, 10:17:18 AM
I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else? I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality? :chuckle:
Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way). Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves. WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.
Post by: chukar58 on March 11, 2014, 10:49:49 AM
Post by: snowpack on March 11, 2014, 11:07:49 AM
What is your estimate for the time it would take to rebuild and then for WDFW to open up fishing (any fishing however limited)?I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else? I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality? :chuckle:
Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way). Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves. WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.
My guess is absolute best case scenario would be about 7 years. A spawn to spawn cycle with following smolt counts? So fish spawned in 2014 return in 2019 and then seine surveys in 2021 to count smolts from the 2019 spawn, then open season in 2021 or 2022. Do you think it might go faster?
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 11, 2014, 11:55:35 AM
Post by: WSU on March 11, 2014, 12:10:27 PM
What is your estimate for the time it would take to rebuild and then for WDFW to open up fishing (any fishing however limited)?I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else? I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality? :chuckle:
Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way). Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves. WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.
My guess is absolute best case scenario would be about 7 years. A spawn to spawn cycle with following smolt counts? So fish spawned in 2014 return in 2019 and then seine surveys in 2021 to count smolts from the 2019 spawn, then open season in 2021 or 2022. Do you think it might go faster?
I honestly have no idea but would be astounded if it happened that fast. Fishing will remain open for a while to catch the steelhead that should return in the next few years from previous plants.
Post by: WSU on March 11, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
And, do you think a hatchery raised fish knows that it's not a "Native" fish? :chuckle:
I believe it is pretty generally accepted that hatchery steelhead do terrible job spawning (as in two spawning adults do not create enough return to replace themselves, i.e. they create less than two returning fish). If hatchery steelhead were good at spawning, wouldn't it stand to reason that our rivers would be flooded with naturally reproducing steelhead? The cow has had millions planted in it for decades and they haven't reproduced for squat.
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2014, 12:13:31 PM
You telling me you can't read sarcasm into my post? ;)I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else? I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality? :chuckle:
Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way). Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves. WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.
"Assuming" this is going to work is really even beyond a stretch isn't it? Can anyone post up a example where this has actually occurred? A once thriving, abundant stream of native steelhead, enjoyed by fisherman and nature lovers, was reduced to evil hatchery reared stocks, destroying the native runs, leading to removal of all hatchery pens and reared fish, which lead once again to thriving, abundant wild runs to be enjoyed again by fisherman and nature lovers, while viewing rainbows and sprawling meadows of flowers and butterflies.
Post by: Damnimissed on March 11, 2014, 12:29:07 PM
"Assuming" this is going to work is really even beyond a stretch isn't it? Can anyone post up a example where this has actually occurred? A once thriving, abundant stream of native steelhead, enjoyed by fisherman and nature lovers, was reduced to evil hatchery reared stocks, destroying the native runs, leading to removal of all hatchery pens and reared fish, which lead once again to thriving, abundant wild runs to be enjoyed again by fisherman and nature lovers, while viewing rainbows and sprawling meadows of flowers and butterflies.
[/quote]
Don't forget unicorns
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2014, 01:45:38 PM
Don't forget unicorns
I knew there was something. :chuckle:
Post by: BigGoonTuna on March 11, 2014, 03:40:27 PM
the north fork toutle hasn't been planted since st. helens blew up, and there hasn't been a winter season on it since. my guess would be, it's probably at its carrying capacity, whatever it might be.
hatchery fish are one of the issues among many with wild fish recovery, however in the last several years they have become a boogeyman because the state is hurting for money and they can easily get rid of hatchery programs to cut cost and say it's for conservation. habitat, ocean conditions, and (on the coastal rivers) over harvest by the tribes is still a far bigger issue.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 11, 2014, 03:57:31 PM
And, do you think a hatchery raised fish knows that it's not a "Native" fish? :chuckle:
I believe it is pretty generally accepted that hatchery steelhead do terrible job spawning (as in two spawning adults do not create enough return to replace themselves, i.e. they create less than two returning fish). If hatchery steelhead were good at spawning, wouldn't it stand to reason that our rivers would be flooded with naturally reproducing steelhead? The cow has had millions planted in it for decades and they haven't reproduced for squat.
Maybe they just like to have fun! :tup:
Post by: shorthair15 on March 11, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 11, 2014, 04:24:19 PM
they dont have a clue!Oh but they do, its not coincidence!
Post by: MtnMuley on March 11, 2014, 04:25:15 PM
Post by: Shane54 on March 11, 2014, 05:22:44 PM
This frickin pisses me off! Really the north fork of the green??! This is crapThis isn't the Green River in King County
Nope the Green and Toutle out this way.
LOL I know what green it is! It's my favorite summer run river'
Post by: Damnimissed on March 11, 2014, 10:38:09 PM
Post by: mkcj on March 12, 2014, 01:30:38 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on March 12, 2014, 06:00:51 AM
Where is "Salmon Creek"?
You go over it on I5 and 205 down by Vancouver. Very little access there either. Mostly at the park you can see of I5
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 12, 2014, 06:07:48 AM
Post by: Shane54 on March 12, 2014, 05:34:48 PM
Mine too Shane! I almost can't sleep the night before the opener.
:yeah: :IBCOOL: