Wild steelhead gene bank is decided!

[snowpack]

I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else?  I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.

But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality?

Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way).  Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves.  WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.

What is your estimate for the time it would take to rebuild and then for WDFW to open up fishing (any fishing however limited)?
My guess is absolute best case scenario would be about 7 years.  A spawn to spawn cycle with following smolt counts?  So fish spawned in 2014 return in 2019 and then seine surveys in 2021 to count smolts from the 2019 spawn, then open season in 2021 or 2022.  Do you think it might go faster?

[Heredoggydoggy]

I think the tributaries above the dams will be affected for a long time.  And, do you think a hatchery raised fish knows that it's not a "Native" fish? 

[WSU]

I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else?  I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.

But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality?

Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way).  Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves.  WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.

What is your estimate for the time it would take to rebuild and then for WDFW to open up fishing (any fishing however limited)?
My guess is absolute best case scenario would be about 7 years.  A spawn to spawn cycle with following smolt counts?  So fish spawned in 2014 return in 2019 and then seine surveys in 2021 to count smolts from the 2019 spawn, then open season in 2021 or 2022.  Do you think it might go faster?

I honestly have no idea but would be astounded if it happened that fast.  Fishing will remain open for a while to catch the steelhead that should return in the next few years from previous plants.

[WSU]

And, do you think a hatchery raised fish knows that it's not a "Native" fish? 

I believe it is pretty generally accepted that hatchery steelhead do terrible job spawning (as in two spawning adults do not create enough return to replace themselves, i.e. they create less than two returning fish).  If hatchery steelhead were good at spawning, wouldn't it stand to reason that our rivers would be flooded with naturally reproducing steelhead?  The cow has had millions planted in it for decades and they haven't reproduced for squat.

[huntnphool]

I want to know if they plan to replace that lost opportunity by planting those fish somewhere else?  I doubt it and would guess we just lost another place to fish without any plans to make up for it.

But, but, that makes no sense. If removing steel pens, eliminating people rearing them to the point of "supporting themselves" and "dong well" actually works, then why would we lose that fishery? Wouldn't it make for better fishing, isn't that the end goal, enjoyment for everyone? Equality?

Let's give WDFW the benefit of the doubt and assume this will work and wild steelhead will become more abundant (which I'd love, by the way).  Even then, anglers are going to lose opportunity for the foreseeable future while the runs rebuild themselves.  WDFW really should transfer that opportunity elsewhere while we wait.

You telling me you can't read sarcasm into my post?

"Assuming" this is going to work is really even beyond a stretch isn't it? Can anyone post up a example where this has actually occurred? A once thriving, abundant stream of native steelhead, enjoyed by fisherman and nature lovers, was reduced to evil hatchery reared stocks, destroying the native runs, leading to removal of all hatchery pens and reared fish, which lead once again to thriving, abundant wild runs to be enjoyed again by fisherman and nature lovers, while viewing rainbows and sprawling meadows of flowers and butterflies.

[Damnimissed]

"Assuming" this is going to work is really even beyond a stretch isn't it? Can anyone post up a example where this has actually occurred? A once thriving, abundant stream of native steelhead, enjoyed by fisherman and nature lovers, was reduced to evil hatchery reared stocks, destroying the native runs, leading to removal of all hatchery pens and reared fish, which lead once again to thriving, abundant wild runs to be enjoyed again by fisherman and nature lovers, while viewing rainbows and sprawling meadows of flowers and butterflies.
[/quote]
Don't forget unicorns

[huntnphool]

Don't forget unicorns

I knew there was something.

[BigGoonTuna]

nice to see how they had the option of using the coweeman as their gene bank - a river with little public access and even fewer private land owners willing to allow the public to fish it, that gets planted by WDFW for a private good old boy fishery, and they still choose the toutle and green after all the overwhelming opposition.  i swear there has to be someone up high with friends on that river.

the north fork toutle hasn't been planted since st. helens blew up, and there hasn't been a winter season on it since.  my guess would be, it's probably at its carrying capacity, whatever it might be.

hatchery fish are one of the issues among many with wild fish recovery, however in the last several years they have become a boogeyman because the state is hurting for money and they can easily get rid of hatchery programs to cut cost and say it's for conservation.  habitat, ocean conditions, and (on the coastal rivers) over harvest by the tribes is still a far bigger issue.

[Heredoggydoggy]

And, do you think a hatchery raised fish knows that it's not a "Native" fish? 

I believe it is pretty generally accepted that hatchery steelhead do terrible job spawning (as in two spawning adults do not create enough return to replace themselves, i.e. they create less than two returning fish).  If hatchery steelhead were good at spawning, wouldn't it stand to reason that our rivers would be flooded with naturally reproducing steelhead?  The cow has had millions planted in it for decades and they haven't reproduced for squat.

Maybe they just like to have fun! 

[shorthair15]

it should of been the coweeman instead of the green. acess sucks on that river and good luck getting one of the landowners letting you fish there. i live a few miles from the coweeman and i dont even fish it. they dont have a clue!

[huntnphool]

they dont have a clue!

Oh but they do, its not coincidence!

[MtnMuley]

Where is "Salmon Creek"?

[Shane54]

This frickin pisses me off! Really the north fork of the green??! This is crap

This isn't the Green River in King County

Nope the Green and Toutle out this way.

LOL I know what green it is! It's my favorite summer run river'

[Damnimissed]

Mine too Shane! I almost can't sleep the night before the opener.

[mkcj]

This has "C&R only" stink written all over it!