Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 09:16:10 AM
I'd like to have SOMETHING to just keep in the tent and maybe pack now and again... that in a close range situation (0-15 feet) would punch into the brain cavity of a griz... VERY unlikely this will ever be needed.
Anyhow, I dont know that I have the money for the super duper lightweight 44's or 41's... which I would be 100% confident in using on a griz's head...
Is there enough difference between a 40, a 10 and a 45acp that I shouldn't just flip a coin? At super close range is the 45 the best option here? I have not delved into the ballistics yet. i know a bunch of you have them memorized and can give me a quick summary! And...I appreciate. Thank you.
E
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 16, 2014, 09:36:08 AM
Post by: quadrafire on April 16, 2014, 09:49:57 AM
But from some of the reading I have done spray may actually be more effective :dunno:
Somehow I would feel safer with some that slung lead vs spray.
Post by: JLS on April 16, 2014, 09:55:56 AM
The .45 ACP is slower than the other two rounds, and given its larger diameter will not penetrate as far as the .40 or the 10mm.
Personally, I'd save up a little more for a revolver in .44 mag and load some hard cast lead bullets. You have to be careful if you choose a semi-auto pistol as not all of them can shoot hard cast lead.
FWIW, I carry spray too and leave the pistol in the truck.
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 10:04:21 AM
I just read an article about penetration between these AND the 9... and the 9, with a premium bullet, was getting equal or more penetration than the 40 or 45... the 10 wasn't in the article.
I would like to get one of those little scandium 41's or 44's.... maybe I'll just start watching for one...
The spray is proven pretty effective, but I still like to pack heat...
Post by: turkeyfeather on April 16, 2014, 10:06:43 AM
Yeah... even with my 44 I shot 320 grain hard cast...That's what I was going to say. A good +p 9 round is just as good as the others with less recoil and quicker follow up shots.
I just read an article about penetration between these AND the 9... and the 9, with a premium bullet, was getting equal or more penetration than the 40 or 45... the 10 wasn't in the article.
I would like to get one of those little scandium 41's or 44's.... maybe I'll just start watching for one...
The spray is proven pretty effective, but I still like to pack heat...
Post by: JLS on April 16, 2014, 10:12:16 AM
High quality 9mm rounds do penetrate well under certain circumstances. If I was looking at Ursus horriblus at close range in the wee hours of the night I know which handgun I would want to have.
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 10:17:39 AM
Post by: quadrafire on April 16, 2014, 10:25:45 AM
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
What are the models of the ultra light revolvers? Taurus has one, Smith... each have a couple right? Ti and Scandium???
Post by: buckfvr on April 16, 2014, 10:39:06 AM
Post by: JLS on April 16, 2014, 10:48:04 AM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on April 16, 2014, 10:53:03 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 16, 2014, 10:59:01 AM
If you didn't want that, I would probably recommend a glock 10mm with the hottest, nastiest hard cast rounds you can get.
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 11:07:47 AM
Quote
Grizzly's in MT must be small?
ah... the adults range in size from about 250 pounds to about 1,100 pounds... so, I guess it depends on which one you run into... Penetrating the skull of a 300 pounder prob wouldn't be much different than the 800 pounder... and Id probs crap my drawers regardless of which sized one it was...
Thanks for the info... I like these discussions. My 44 mountain gun was fairly heavy, but I loved shooting it, recoil never bothered me...
Post by: quadrafire on April 16, 2014, 11:17:30 AM
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765591_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765591_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 11:59:29 AM
Post by: quadrafire on April 16, 2014, 12:15:34 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 12:17:21 PM
:brew:
Post by: sirmissalot on April 16, 2014, 12:30:40 PM
Post by: quadrafire on April 16, 2014, 12:34:38 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on April 16, 2014, 01:19:14 PM
Post by: dmv9 on April 16, 2014, 02:02:12 PM
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/713076543/used+Smith+%26+Wesson+329PD+Alaska+Backpacker?sort=date (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/713076543/used+Smith+%26+Wesson+329PD+Alaska+Backpacker?sort=date)
Post by: scottcrb on April 16, 2014, 03:04:17 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 16, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
Post by: WSU on April 16, 2014, 03:27:32 PM
I have a taurus titanium tracker in 45 lc with a 6.5 inch barrel. Very light and packs a punch!
How do 45 lc ballistics compare to the other calibers being discussed?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 16, 2014, 03:36:49 PM
Post by: Bofire on April 16, 2014, 03:38:20 PM
In these guns I say cartridge does not matter, buy the gun you shoot "best and fast" and will carry all the time. Hundred foot pounds energy each shot means little compared to putting a mag load into a 6 inch target quickly at 50 feet.
my 2
Carl
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 16, 2014, 09:15:06 PM
load data for ruger and freedom arms shows about a 100 fps difference between the 45 colt and 44 mag with the mag being faster. for other 45 lc guns you are looking 300 fps slower.I have a taurus titanium tracker in 45 lc with a 6.5 inch barrel. Very light and packs a punch!
How do 45 lc ballistics compare to the other calibers being discussed?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 16, 2014, 09:23:47 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on April 16, 2014, 09:27:07 PM
It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.:yeah: Out of the three listed in the OP go with the 45.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 16, 2014, 09:34:56 PM
Post by: thinkingman on April 16, 2014, 09:35:40 PM
Around $700Nice gun but you're about $400 short of the street price.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/713076543/used+Smith+%26+Wesson+329PD+Alaska+Backpacker?sort=date (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/713076543/used+Smith+%26+Wesson+329PD+Alaska+Backpacker?sort=date)
I bought the little brother, 386 XL.
6" barrel, 7 rds of 357 with 180gr hardcast.
The grip on the N frame is too big for me.
327,329,325, all great mountain carry guns.
I would pick the 327 or 325 because I have other guns in that cartridge.
Don't go shorter than a 4" barrel or all you get for that magnum experience is a louder bang.
Post by: mountainman on April 16, 2014, 09:51:30 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 16, 2014, 09:56:19 PM
what were we talking about again?
Post by: huntnnw on April 16, 2014, 10:04:55 PM
Post by: mountainman on April 16, 2014, 10:07:18 PM
A 9mm? :chuckle: most of you I am guessing have never actually been face to face with a bear multiple times...good luck hitting the brain in the heat of the moment and if that bear is at 15 feet kiss your ass goodbye. I saw what a 9mm did to a black bear at 8 yards...bullets falling out of the bear this is no joke..17 rds fired it was like the bear was being stung by a bee! If I am packing a gun it better kill and not head shots talking chest too.. 357 or bigger. I have watched bears take 300 mag at point blank range and act if it wasnt phased..talk aboyt crapping yourself.:yeah:
Post by: huntnnw on April 16, 2014, 10:08:42 PM
Post by: quadrafire on April 16, 2014, 10:30:40 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on April 17, 2014, 01:03:47 AM
compact, hard hitting, lots of firepower in an easy to carry package.
Easier to deploy inside a tent than bear spray.
Post by: motg9_6 on April 17, 2014, 06:08:52 AM
#1 problem is you only got 5 rnds in the gun so this year i bought a Glock 21 .45 acp 13 rounds of fury if needed.
will miss the revolver fun and carry bird shot for grouse but it will make a better mattress gun anyways.
Post by: huntnnw on April 17, 2014, 06:19:15 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 17, 2014, 07:35:34 AM
It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.
Kinetic Energy is mass x velocity. (KE= .5 x MV2)
All the weight in the world is meaningless without the horsepower to push it.
Post by: buckfvr on April 17, 2014, 07:43:29 AM
It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.
Kinetic Energy is mass x velocity. (KE= .5 x MV2)
All the weight in the world is meaningless without the horsepower to push it.
All this adds up to .44 rem mag............. :tup:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 17, 2014, 07:45:49 AM
:yeah: the velocity part is squared... so that has a huge impact on ke. I haven't been face to face with a grizzly but did get down and dirty in the brush with a pissed off and injured blackie one time. 2 shots from my 7 mag did it in... the first in the chest didn't seem to phase it. Second went in the neck. I also agree with huntnnw a 9 would not even be on my list for bear defense.It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.
Kinetic Energy is mass x velocity. (KE= .5 x MV2)
All the weight in the world is meaningless without the horsepower to push it.
Post by: Hornseeker on April 17, 2014, 07:49:33 AM
Just curious.
Ive been close to a lot of animals shot with a lot of different guns... and I will NOT rely on a chest shot from ANY gun to save me from a close range griz encounter...
I have virtually no experience with the calibers I listed nor the 9mm... I appreciate everyones feedback. I do know I'd feel confident with a 44 mag ... taking a bear between the eyes at close range. One thing I have committed myself to is giving the bear every chance to break off the charge... the vast majority of charges are "false" or "Bluff" and the bear will stop at CLOSE range and then have a stare down. They will avoid making contact in most cases. I plan to give them that chance, knowing that the closer they get the better chance I'll have to put that bullet right where it counts. hehehe... I hope. I actually just hope they break it off and veer away or stop. Yuck... dont even like talking about it... hehehe I also realize there could be a time when there is no time... it could be "hey, whats that and boom, he's IN your face. Yuck.
Practice and rehearse if you hunt in big bear country... I visualize these encounters and practice drawing a shooting quite a bit... I probs ought to do the same thing with my spray, but never really have practiced drawing it...
Thanks again All!
Post by: mrolen on April 17, 2014, 09:20:41 AM
Glock 10mm. Model 20 gets you 16 rounds or a 29 fills up with 11.
compact, hard hitting, lots of firepower in an easy to carry package.
Easier to deploy inside a tent than bear spray.
:chuckle:
Post by: Hornseeker on April 17, 2014, 11:24:57 AM
Quote
Easier to deploy inside a tent than bear spray.
Easier?? How about "more effective"... hehehe
Post by: xXLojackXx on April 17, 2014, 12:46:22 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on April 17, 2014, 12:50:57 PM
Post by: JLS on April 17, 2014, 01:19:46 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 17, 2014, 01:26:08 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on April 17, 2014, 01:35:29 PM
U pretty much get 2 shots and those 2 better kill. A bear at 10 yards will be on you faster u will ever imagine.
That's why I only carry a derringer in 45 LC. The backup plan is to scream like a little girl.
Post by: pashok23 on April 17, 2014, 04:39:17 PM
Post by: Bofire on April 17, 2014, 05:42:02 PM
The bear killed with the 9mm was wounded with a 338 mag. none of these were over 250 pounds.
This stuff is why bears can be such a rush to hunt. I have seen bears hit a bunch of times with big guns before they died, and seen little gun one shot kills.
I repeat buy the gun you shoot best / fast.
Carl
Post by: Hornseeker on April 17, 2014, 07:10:23 PM
Just got off phone with buddy that has been getting 1340 with a 200 grain bullet out of his G20. That sounds pretty good. I've seen many a black bears lights go out with a 41 bullet... And the ballistics I just quoted aren't far off...
But... Dang... Are they good enough for a griz. I was so confident with my 320 grain hard casts... Just not feelin it with these little ones!!!
Hehe
Post by: Bofire on April 17, 2014, 07:29:34 PM
Carl
Post by: Bean Counter on April 17, 2014, 07:56:21 PM
It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.
Kinetic Energy is mass x velocity. (KE= .5 x MV2)
All the weight in the world is meaningless without the horsepower to push it.
Your formula is incorrect.
Kinetic energy = one half mass x velocity^2... KE = 1/2MV^2
The way you can interpret it is as follows: a doubling of mass leads to a doubling of kinetic energy. Whereas a doubling of velocity leads to a quadrupling of kinetic energy. This is why a 9mm hits as hard as a 45ACP. Its much lighter round, but the velocity makes up for it.
There are significant traffic safety interpretations to it as well. It is worse to be hit by a prius driving 60 miles per hour than a GMC Suburban driving 30 miles per hour.
Post by: Bean Counter on April 17, 2014, 08:00:19 PM
I have a taurus titanium tracker in 45 lc with a 6.5 inch barrel. Very light and packs a punch!
You definitely have me beat in the Biggest Testicles Contest... trusting your life to a Taurus and all. :o
Post by: yorketransport on April 17, 2014, 08:17:29 PM
I have a taurus titanium tracker in 45 lc with a 6.5 inch barrel. Very light and packs a punch!
You definitely have me beat in the Biggest Testicles Contest... trusting your life to a Taurus and all. :o
I had a Ti Tracking in 41 mag for nearly 2000 rounds without any issue at all. No light loads either; 250gr hard cast and a case full of H110. I finally sold it because somebody offered me the right price.
If I were you I'd look for a used 329PD. They're about as good as you get in weight/power ratio. A used one should be in the $700 range.
Andrwe
Post by: Hornseeker on April 18, 2014, 07:42:15 AM
Yeah... I would be grateful too! I'd be happy with my 94' 30-30 over a 44.... But the 06'... Oh hell yeah.
Held the G20 an 29 last night. 20 regular was way too big for my hand. I guess the short is much better for smaller hands. That 29 with 11 rounds would work fine for my purposes. But the 20 is probably much more shoot able.
Post by: splitshot on April 18, 2014, 07:54:13 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 18, 2014, 07:57:25 AM
I have 2. take turns. a tcp in 380 weighs 10 oz. an lcp in 380 weighs only 9 oz. if you look around they can be had for less than $300 each. aint no griz in Othello. mike w
Mike,
Does your TCP 380 jam all the time ? My wifes does and it's going in for warranty.
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 18, 2014, 08:14:54 AM
It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.
Kinetic Energy is mass x velocity. (KE= .5 x MV2)
All the weight in the world is meaningless without the horsepower to push it.
Your formula is incorrect.
Kinetic energy = one half mass x velocity^2... KE = 1/2MV^2
How is that different than what I said? I admit, I always sucked at syntax.
Post by: NW-GSP on April 18, 2014, 08:43:39 AM
I had a gen 3 and it was a little too big but the gen 4 fits perfect
Post by: Bean Counter on April 18, 2014, 10:48:55 AM
It's all about Kinetic Energy, not FPS. You want a round that will hit whatever you're shooting at, like a sledge hammer.
Kinetic Energy is mass x velocity. (KE= .5 x MV2)
All the weight in the world is meaningless without the horsepower to push it.
Your formula is incorrect.
Kinetic energy = one half mass x velocity^2... KE = 1/2MV^2
How is that different than what I said? I admit, I always sucked at syntax.
Parenthetically, it would probably have been fine if you hand wrote it. I'm guessing you would have written the 2 in the smaller superscript (as written its a 2 for multiplication and not exponentiation). to be clear: velocity is squared, not multiplied times 2. So you also could have wrote KE = .5 x MVV. I guess I was more hung up on how you wrote it in plain English: that KE is simply a function of mass times velocity. It is important to remember that velocity is far more influential in KE than mass--which you also pointed out. ;)
Post by: Hornseeker on April 18, 2014, 12:04:35 PM
I don't think it's as important in bullets as it is in arrows...(momentum)
Not sure gen 3 or 4?? It was brand new...???
Post by: jstone on April 18, 2014, 12:25:48 PM
Post by: HillSlick on April 18, 2014, 12:35:49 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: HillSlick on April 18, 2014, 12:37:52 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Hornseeker on April 18, 2014, 01:30:06 PM
Post by: thinkingman on April 18, 2014, 02:37:54 PM
How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?Depends on barrel length.
A 3.5" barrel on a 10mm vs a 6" barrel on a .357mag is going to level the playing field more than the 10mm fans want to admit.
I will find some ballistic data to support.
Here is some data.
If you click on the link for 10mm, they use a Colt Delta Elite with a 5.03" barrel.
No Glock 10mm runs that long.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html)
Post by: Hornseeker on April 18, 2014, 03:52:16 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2014, 04:16:36 PM
should send a 90gr XTP pill over 2000 fps
Post by: Bofire on April 18, 2014, 04:59:34 PM
a little more reading
Post by: huntnnw on April 18, 2014, 06:13:02 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on April 18, 2014, 07:34:49 PM
How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?Depends on barrel length.
A 3.5" barrel on a 10mm vs a 6" barrel on a .357mag is going to level the playing field more than the 10mm fans want to admit.
I will find some ballistic data to support.
Here is some data.
If you click on the link for 10mm, they use a Colt Delta Elite with a 5.03" barrel.
No Glock 10mm runs that long.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html)
Going on straight round for round comparison, yes there will be several scenarios where the 10MM is out powered.
But, for the whole package, which to the Glock 20 in 10mm has in spades, it is very hard to top for the OP's intended purpose.
To say you will only get 1-2 rounds off during a bear attack is naive at best.
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2014, 07:51:20 PM
This thread is hilarious.. Id love to see some in action in the moment you would be sh%#^^* yourself . Then to say ill just shoot it on the head? Give me a break! Or I'll take 16 rds over 2-3 from a 44? I'll take power all day long cause your getting 1-2 shots off not 16! If your getting 16 off then you were shooting a bear that was way to far away and u have no business shooting at.
not everyone shoots as slowly as you do :tung: And if you don't shat yourself on a grizz charge there is something wrong with you!
"how many times you can fire on a charging bear" is a fruitless discussion to have - too many factors come to play.
You do have much more control and ability to fire faster and stay on target with an auto - there's no debate in that.
Where I will give the nod to a revolver is if the bear is on you and your down, and it's trying to chew through your skull; you won't have to worry about jamming the revolver into the bear and pulling the trigger while you're fading to black, where an auto might get shoved out of battery thus FTF.
Post by: Yondering on April 18, 2014, 10:59:46 PM
How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?Depends on barrel length.
A 3.5" barrel on a 10mm vs a 6" barrel on a .357mag is going to level the playing field more than the 10mm fans want to admit.
Yes, a some 6" 357's can keep up with a 3.5" 10mm depending on the load. That's not a great comparison though; if you could carry a 6" 357, you could carry a full size (4.5"-5") 10mm Glock or 1911, which will definitely outperform the 357. You have to think about the overal size of the gun as the limiting factor, not the barrel length.
My longslide G20L has a 6.6" barrel; that delivers some serious power but is a bit large for a carry gun. The standard G20 is a better choice in the woods, IMO, although I'm happy with hot loaded 45 hard cast as well. Loading your own in either caliber opens up a lot more options.
If you choose hard-cast 10mm, which is a great choice, I recommend the 200gr instead of the heavier 220gr loads; the 200 is a better size for the 10mm case and a better balance of velocity vs weight. It will still penetrate as deep as you need.
Post by: thinkingman on April 19, 2014, 08:46:42 AM
10mm/Glock fanboys are not going to like this one bit....But it's only Buffalo Bore themselves testing so it's not like they know what they're doing.....https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=146 (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=146)How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?Depends on barrel length.
A 3.5" barrel on a 10mm vs a 6" barrel on a .357mag is going to level the playing field more than the 10mm fans want to admit.
Yes, a some 6" 357's can keep up with a 3.5" 10mm depending on the load. That's not a great comparison though; if you could carry a 6" 357, you could carry a full size (4.5"-5") 10mm Glock or 1911, which will definitely outperform the 357. You have to think about the overal size of the gun as the limiting factor, not the barrel length.
My longslide G20L has a 6.6" barrel; that delivers some serious power but is a bit large for a carry gun. The standard G20 is a better choice in the woods, IMO, although I'm happy with hot loaded 45 hard cast as well. Loading your own in either caliber opens up a lot more options.
If you choose hard-cast 10mm, which is a great choice, I recommend the 200gr instead of the heavier 220gr loads; the 200 is a better size for the 10mm case and a better balance of velocity vs weight. It will still penetrate as deep as you need.
Click on 'Heavy 10mm' and 'Heavy 357 Magnum' for actual ballistics out of actual firearms.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on April 19, 2014, 01:34:48 PM
Why do you feel the '10mm/ Glock' "fanboys" won't like your link?10mm/Glock fanboys are not going to like this one bit....But it's only Buffalo Bore themselves testing so it's not like they know what they're doing.....https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=146 (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=146)How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?Depends on barrel length.
A 3.5" barrel on a 10mm vs a 6" barrel on a .357mag is going to level the playing field more than the 10mm fans want to admit.
Yes, a some 6" 357's can keep up with a 3.5" 10mm depending on the load. That's not a great comparison though; if you could carry a 6" 357, you could carry a full size (4.5"-5") 10mm Glock or 1911, which will definitely outperform the 357. You have to think about the overal size of the gun as the limiting factor, not the barrel length.
My longslide G20L has a 6.6" barrel; that delivers some serious power but is a bit large for a carry gun. The standard G20 is a better choice in the woods, IMO, although I'm happy with hot loaded 45 hard cast as well. Loading your own in either caliber opens up a lot more options.
If you choose hard-cast 10mm, which is a great choice, I recommend the 200gr instead of the heavier 220gr loads; the 200 is a better size for the 10mm case and a better balance of velocity vs weight. It will still penetrate as deep as you need.
Click on 'Heavy 10mm' and 'Heavy 357 Magnum' for actual ballistics out of actual firearms.
50BMG has ~13054 foot pounds of muzzle energy. The 357 mag w/ 6" barrel ~ 800 foot pounds of muzzle energy.
See what I did there?
Post by: pashok23 on April 19, 2014, 03:49:15 PM
This thread is hilarious.. Id love to see some in action in the moment you would be sh%#^^* yourself . Then to say ill just shoot it on the head? Give me a break! Or I'll take 16 rds over 2-3 from a 44? I'll take power all day long cause your getting 1-2 shots off not 16! If your getting 16 off then you were shooting a bear that was way to far away and u have no business shooting at.:yeah:
Post by: Hornseeker on April 20, 2014, 07:02:40 AM
After much deliberation, and research and discussion.... I think having a G20 would be fine. But I would feel better with my 44 and it's 320 grainers...
Fun thread though! Who, if anyone, has been charged by a griz? Someone above mentioned squaring off with a couple... More details!
I have not been close to a griz but have friends that have been bluff charged and charged that have shot and killed griz here in MT and WY. All used 44's with great success, except one that was actually black bear hunting and used his 7 mag....
I think none shat themselves... But all were shaken.
They all prefer 44 or spray... Or 7!
Hehe
Post by: mountainman on April 20, 2014, 09:35:23 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 20, 2014, 12:16:30 PM
How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?
My understanding is that most of the off the shelf 10mm ammo is just a slight improvement over .40 cal and those fabulous ballistics that are posted all over are from military loads that are not readily available to the public.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on April 20, 2014, 04:11:42 PM
What military uses the 10mm? And what load(s) are you talking about?How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?
My understanding is that most of the off the shelf 10mm ammo is just a slight improvement over .40 cal and those fabulous ballistics that are posted all over are from military loads that are not readily available to the public.
Post by: KFhunter on April 20, 2014, 04:34:38 PM
1) Tweakers and other knot headed folks are the biggest threat. I've have people level a rifle at me because I was about to discover an outdoor grow-op.
2) Wolves
3) Cougar - starving cats competing with wolves have moved up the list of threatening animals
4) Bear
That's the way I see it, location specific of course factors can change. As such I'm getting away from the hard cast 200gr I used to carry and going to hollow points with a good mix of expansion and penetration.
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 20, 2014, 05:11:49 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 20, 2014, 05:13:28 PM
Funny stuff!
Do you beg to differ?
Post by: Bofire on April 20, 2014, 05:23:31 PM
"Be able to shoot it well and fast"
Carl
Post by: Biggerhammer on April 20, 2014, 05:46:09 PM
Funny stuff!
Do you beg to differ?
Refering to some of the thread in general👍
Post by: mountainman on April 20, 2014, 05:50:57 PM
:) What ever cartridge you choose or "expert" you chose to listen to, the best advice is::yeah:
"Be able to shoot it well and fast"
Carl
Post by: KFhunter on April 20, 2014, 06:09:09 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on April 20, 2014, 09:09:25 PM
Like I said... Fun thread.
I wish I had experience killing griz... But don't! I bet there are some old timers in AK that could tell us a thing or two about killing griz with head shots.
Post by: mountainman on April 20, 2014, 10:27:32 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on April 21, 2014, 05:31:23 AM
Post by: thinkingman on April 21, 2014, 07:57:22 PM
bears aren't the biggest threat out there, I'll list the threats in order.Add wild/semi-wild dogs to the list.
1) Tweakers and other knot headed folks are the biggest threat. I've have people level a rifle at me because I was about to discover an outdoor grow-op.
2) Wolves
3) Cougar - starving cats competing with wolves have moved up the list of threatening animals
4) Bear
That's the way I see it, location specific of course factors can change. As such I'm getting away from the hard cast 200gr I used to carry and going to hollow points with a good mix of expansion and penetration.
I hunted with a guy that had to 'discourage' a group of PBs that charged his bird dog on the Yak Res.
The threats are real.
Post by: quadrafire on April 22, 2014, 12:54:10 PM
Post by: BobW on April 22, 2014, 04:47:41 PM
Post by: stryker on April 24, 2014, 12:10:45 PM
.40 is just an under powered 10mm
.45 is a bit slower but larger diameter
10mm has some blazing fast rounds. 2400 ft/s for the light stuff AND you can also get dumb'd down 10mm ammo that is in the 9mm range.
I REALLY like the versatility in my 10mm.
Post by: Yondering on April 24, 2014, 01:46:34 PM
9mm = NO
.40 is just an under powered 10mm
.45 is a bit slower but larger diameter
10mm has some blazing fast rounds. 2400 ft/s for the light stuff AND you can also get dumb'd down 10mm ammo that is in the 9mm range.
I REALLY like the versatility in my 10mm.
2400 fps is stretching it just a wee bit, for any bullets within the normal weight range (135-230gr). Did you mean 1400 fps? 1600-1800 is possible with the lightweight 135-155gr bullets. I'm pushing a 165gr cast at 1650+ fps from mine, but that's a longslide with max loads.
Agreed on the versatility though.
Post by: Bofire on April 24, 2014, 02:58:02 PM
The fastest load is Corbon115 at 1650 fps. 135 grain 1400; 155 grain 1200, 165 1250;175-180 grain1300; some 180 down to 1100; 200 grain 1050-1125 fps.
Bunch of 357 mag loads: 158 grain 1200-1545fps; 170-180 grain 1100-1200; 200 grain Cor-bon hardcast 1150 fps.
very comparable, longer slimmer 357 bullet or short fatter bullet 10mm??? Historical performance would have the longer slimmer bullet penetrating straighter and further.
Carl
Post by: thinkingman on April 24, 2014, 03:17:31 PM
:) For 10mm: I have factory ballistics for 20 rounds; 115 grain thru 200. Corbon,Hornady winchester PMC Remington.
The fastest load is Corbon115 at 1650 fps. 135 grain 1400; 155 grain 1200, 165 1250;175-180 grain1300; some 180 down to 1100; 200 grain 1050-1125 fps.
Bunch of 357 mag loads: 158 grain 1200-1545fps; 170-180 grain 1100-1200; 200 grain Cor-bon hardcast 1150 fps.
very comparable, longer slimmer 357 bullet or short fatter bullet 10mm??? Historical performance would have the longer slimmer bullet penetrating straighter and further.
Carl
Precisely why I chose 357 Mag.
Post by: stryker on April 24, 2014, 04:03:42 PM
9mm = NO
.40 is just an under powered 10mm
.45 is a bit slower but larger diameter
10mm has some blazing fast rounds. 2400 ft/s for the light stuff AND you can also get dumb'd down 10mm ammo that is in the 9mm range.
I REALLY like the versatility in my 10mm.
2400 fps is stretching it just a wee bit, for any bullets within the normal weight range (135-230gr). Did you mean 1400 fps? 1600-1800 is possible with the lightweight 135-155gr bullets. I'm pushing a 165gr cast at 1650+ fps from mine, but that's a longslide with max loads.
Agreed on the versatility though.
Its a light round made by rbcd, (10mm 77 gr. 2420 fps / 1015 flbs), nothing I would use in bear country but a coyote or cougar... hell yea!
I prefer the 155gr bonded hp from Underwood for daily carry (155gr. 1500 fps / 775 flbs) but in the field I typically carry FMJ for increased penetration and bone breaking ability.
Post by: stryker on April 24, 2014, 04:10:14 PM
How does a 357 mag stack up to the 10mm?
My understanding is that most of the off the shelf 10mm ammo is just a slight improvement over .40 cal and those fabulous ballistics that are posted all over are from military loads that are not readily available to the public.
LOL! Then you should expand where you shop.
http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx (http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx)
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=126_134 (http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=126_134)
http://rbcd.net/Products/Personal_Defense (http://rbcd.net/Products/Personal_Defense)
Post by: sled on April 24, 2014, 04:18:32 PM
Post by: Yondering on April 25, 2014, 10:03:01 AM
9mm = NO
.40 is just an under powered 10mm
.45 is a bit slower but larger diameter
10mm has some blazing fast rounds. 2400 ft/s for the light stuff AND you can also get dumb'd down 10mm ammo that is in the 9mm range.
I REALLY like the versatility in my 10mm.
2400 fps is stretching it just a wee bit, for any bullets within the normal weight range (135-230gr). Did you mean 1400 fps? 1600-1800 is possible with the lightweight 135-155gr bullets. I'm pushing a 165gr cast at 1650+ fps from mine, but that's a longslide with max loads.
Agreed on the versatility though.
Its a light round made by rbcd, (10mm 77 gr. 2420 fps / 1015 flbs), nothing I would use in bear country but a coyote or cougar... hell yea!
I prefer the 155gr bonded hp from Underwood for daily carry (155gr. 1500 fps / 775 flbs) but in the field I typically carry FMJ for increased penetration and bone breaking ability.
Interesting. Have you actually shot that 77gr round over a chronograph? A lot of companies exaggerate their velocity claims pretty badly. I'm sure it's fast, but I'm still pretty skeptical of that velocity from normal length pistol barrels. From a longer 6"+ barrel, it's probably achievable, but right on the edge of max loads.
The Underwood stuff usually does meet it's claimed velocity, although some of their 10mm loads are a bit too hot IMO.
Post by: MP123 on April 25, 2014, 10:35:07 AM
Maybe a 500gr 45/70 tho! :chuckle: :mgun:
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2014, 08:25:32 PM
9mm = NO
.40 is just an under powered 10mm
.45 is a bit slower but larger diameter
10mm has some blazing fast rounds. 2400 ft/s for the light stuff AND you can also get dumb'd down 10mm ammo that is in the 9mm range.
I REALLY like the versatility in my 10mm.
2400 fps is stretching it just a wee bit, for any bullets within the normal weight range (135-230gr). Did you mean 1400 fps? 1600-1800 is possible with the lightweight 135-155gr bullets. I'm pushing a 165gr cast at 1650+ fps from mine, but that's a longslide with max loads.
Agreed on the versatility though.
Its a light round made by rbcd, (10mm 77 gr. 2420 fps / 1015 flbs), nothing I would use in bear country but a coyote or cougar... hell yea!
I prefer the 155gr bonded hp from Underwood for daily carry (155gr. 1500 fps / 775 flbs) but in the field I typically carry FMJ for increased penetration and bone breaking ability.
Interesting. Have you actually shot that 77gr round over a chronograph? A lot of companies exaggerate their velocity claims pretty badly. I'm sure it's fast, but I'm still pretty skeptical of that velocity from normal length pistol barrels. From a longer 6"+ barrel, it's probably achievable, but right on the edge of max loads.
The Underwood stuff usually does meet it's claimed velocity, although some of their 10mm loads are a bit too hot IMO.
The 9x25 dillion only hits 2100 fps with 90gr - in a longslide G20
I shoot underwood product and been happy with the results, also have a 24# spring for that hot stuff
Post by: bobbydean on May 05, 2014, 09:22:18 AM
Post by: bobbydean on May 05, 2014, 09:29:59 AM
This Is What You Need! :chuckle: For Sale 600.00trade for my raging bull 44 mag?