Post by: lhrbull on August 01, 2015, 09:17:38 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on August 01, 2015, 09:29:53 AM
The Ruger would be way cheaper than a Remington or a Browning or Winchester.
The Ruger did kick a little harder than the HH. IT was a lighter rifle.
300 partition in the chamber with a magazine load of same weight solids is how I'd present myself. Have a blast!!
Post by: jdb on August 02, 2015, 09:12:23 PM
Post by: yorketransport on August 02, 2015, 09:16:35 PM
A CZ 550 in 416 Rigby would be my starting point. Skip past the 458 Win Mag or 458 Lott. They just don't have the class to go to Africa. :twocents: If you have the cash, a CZ Safari Classic in either 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeffery would be my pick.
Honestly, I'd probably just "slum it" with either my 375 Ruger or the 458 Arnold (458 Lott). I'm too cheap to spring for one of the top end CZs and I just want to live vicariously through somebody else. :chuckle:
Andrew
Post by: theleo on August 03, 2015, 09:01:34 AM
Post by: theleo on August 03, 2015, 09:25:02 AM
Post by: b23 on August 03, 2015, 12:56:29 PM
Considering their safety is as important to them as is yours, I would certainly think they'd know better than anyone, what the best choice/s would be, including what ammo to use as well.
This was a pretty good read and maybe will help answer some questions for you. http://www.chifutisafaris.com/guns_and_gear.htm
Post by: yorketransport on August 03, 2015, 08:35:26 PM
Ruger No.1 in 458 win mag then. It'd be just the same as full tilt 45-70 loads in a No.1.
I love the 45-70, but it will never be in the same league as even the 458 Win Mag, the under achiever of all the .458 mags. Throwing a 500gr bullet at 1800 fps (an optimistic velocity at reasonable pressures from a 45-70) is nothing to laugh at but it's no Win Mag!
Maybe a 450 Dakota is the answer? :tup:
Post by: h20hunter on August 04, 2015, 07:52:16 AM
Here is a little light reading.....
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,64016.0.html
Post by: birddogdad on August 04, 2015, 08:10:01 AM
oh and if you go big bore, I would strongly recommend a brake~
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 09:59:25 AM
The american love of the 45-70 and the need to compare it to heavy African calibers cracks me up, it will never be in the same league as the heavy stopping rifles. So many people just don't get it, its not the diameter of the bullet, its the energy and velocity that you can get with a bullet of that diameter.
So 500 grains going 1800 fps will bounce off a buffalo and a person should get a real African big bore round that is more expensive and less versatile to shoot when a person is state side? I admit I'm ignorant on African game but I highly doubt many of the rounds actually generate the Kinetic energy to physically overcome the mass of a buffalo at a full tilt charge. I know others rounds are more powerful but figure a 45-70 in a Ruger No. 1 would be a better choice for an all around hunting rifle than other fairly dangerous game specific combos.
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 10:13:38 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 10:30:38 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 10:53:21 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 12:14:24 PM
The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.
Agreed! The 47-70 is a dog of a cartridge for Africa.
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 12:52:05 PM
The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.
Agreed! The 47-70 is a dog of a cartridge for Africa.
OK, then explain why a hot loaded 45-70 will be woefully incapable of dispatching a cape buffalo. 375's are fine for Africa but have limited uses here except for the big bears up north. 45-70's can loaded for very economically, have a huge range of components to load with, and (in the case of Rugers or converted bolt guns) have three power levels to choose from. I've seen many photos of large bore single shots from Africa and wonder if a person is relying on a 375 in a bolt gun if they would really have enough time to get to the bottom of that magazine before they are a pile of goo. I was also under the impression in the situation of charges, that the PH had the fight stopper rifle and the client was supposed to make his shot count when he pulls the trigger the first time.
Simply put, explain why a person should invest in a rifle they'll ever really use in Africa instead of one that would get the job done there but also be well suited for hunting trips here as well? Why not have a life time of memories with a rifle than just one or two trips worth of memories with one?
Post by: birddogdad on August 04, 2015, 12:56:39 PM
The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.
Agreed! The 47-70 is a dog of a cartridge for Africa.
OK, then explain why a hot loaded 45-70 will be woefully incapable of dispatching a cape buffalo. 375's are fine for Africa but have limited uses here except for the big bears up north. 45-70's can loaded for very economically, have a huge range of components to load with, and (in the case of Rugers or converted bolt guns) have three power levels to choose from. I've seen many photos of large bore single shots from Africa and wonder if a person is relying on a 375 in a bolt gun if they would really have enough time to get to the bottom of that magazine before they are a pile of goo. I was also under the impression in the situation of charges, that the PH had the fight stopper rifle and the client was supposed to make his shot count when he pulls the trigger the first time.
Simply put, explain why a person should invest in a rifle they'll ever really use in Africa instead of one that would get the job done there but also be well suited for hunting trips here as well? Why not have a life time of memories with a rifle than just one or two trips worth of memories with one?
if you are traveling to another continent to hunt, clearly able to pay for the experience, asking for gun input, then money is not a reason to not get a rifle specific to fit and function.. 2 words: stopping power.. you think your PE is going to carry a 45/70 to back you? not hardly....
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 01:00:50 PM
All this coming from a person who has owned both.
Not saying that the 45-70 is useless but the 375 is. Definitely more versatile I think.
I don't see how a 375 wouldn't be useful here :dunno:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 01:02:49 PM
Assuming money is no object here
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 01:53:40 PM
Post by: MP123 on August 04, 2015, 02:20:49 PM
Seems like the 375H&H might be a little better if you were shooting plains game at a distance along with your Cape buffalo. Maybe a little more versatile at longer ranges...
Post by: coachcw on August 04, 2015, 02:36:52 PM
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 02:53:13 PM
So if Cape buffalo are the biggest critter on the list, how is it that the 45-70 is an inadequate choice of weapon?
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 04, 2015, 03:20:03 PM
The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.
So a short barreled lever gun with 5 quick rounds isn't a reliable fight stopper :dunno:
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 03:22:54 PM
A new marlin guide gun cost just a little bit more than a 375 Ruger. I've never been in a store that had 45-70 but didn't have the Holland- Holland.
Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is. I would rather have the 375HH or Ruger for a one gun North American battery than a 45-70 in any flavor. Hell, even the lower 48.
Post by: grundy53 on August 04, 2015, 03:25:54 PM
I'm make the assumption that people are price conscious and that average Joe might be saving money for a good long while before having a chance to go to Africa so may not want to buy a rifle for a once in a lifetime hunt and instead have a rifle well suited for many situations here as well. I'm aware the 45-70 is not tops on the list for Africa and that PH's don't use them, their rifles are used for when things go wrong and are in whole different class of cartridges for that reason. Yes, a 375 can be used here especially when down loaded but availability, price, and bullet selection stinks. A 45-70 on the other hand can be loaded to light cowboy style loads (300 grain bullets going 800 ish), trapdoor pressures (425 grain bullets going 1300 ish that decimated our bison heards), marlin and model 86 loads (425 grain going 1700 ish), or full tilt loads (500 grain bullets going 1800 ish). Ammo for it can be found on the shelf in many places, bullets can be had from many places, in many styles, and can be purchased cheap (midway has many cast .458 bullets in the 40 cent a piece range).If it's illegal to use there why are you even debating it? It isn't an option. :dunno:
So if Cape buffalo are the biggest critter on the list, how is it that the 45-70 is an inadequate choice of weapon?
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 03:26:45 PM
African heat and temps and dusty conditions, highly hot loaded rounds in a thin rimmed case out of a lever action is asking for problems.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 04, 2015, 03:30:53 PM
John S- For cape buffalo? No way. Just as I asked earlier: what would you carry sans PH, all by yourself.
African heat and temps and dusty conditions, highly hot loaded rounds in a thin rimmed case out of a lever action is asking for problems.
I'm not calling it superior, I just meant in a close range, "bang, bang, bang, bang..." follow up shots. It's a moot point for me. I shouldn't have really posted. I have zero interest in hunting Africa :chuckle:
When I was two shakes from a grizzly hunt, my gun purchase was going to be a .375 H&H :tup:
Post by: superdown on August 04, 2015, 03:32:21 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 03:34:33 PM
Post by: superdown on August 04, 2015, 03:35:07 PM
One is more tenacious to life and a helluva lot more likely to give you grief than the other.That certainly is something to keep in mind :chuckle: I understand that's it not legal my curiosity is based on if it were legal why then it would be so underrated?
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 03:48:12 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 04:16:07 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 04:39:18 PM
Again. Not downgrading the 45-70. It's great at what it does. It just isn't in the same class as the h&h or ruger
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 04:46:15 PM
Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.
Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 04:55:27 PM
If it's illegal to use there why are you even debating it? It isn't an option. :dunno:
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
From a little digging on the internet all I can find for South Africa is that some provinces have a 375 caliber minimum but there's no energy minimum. That would lead me to believe a 45-70 is completely legal.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 05:01:15 PM
From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.
Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 05:05:34 PM
Saw it. Key words in that write up. He tracked it fir an hour.
At which point he had found it with rigor mortise already set in. You'd move slower tracking an elk that went out of site if it were an animal with a reputation for stomping people.
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 05:20:01 PM
Look dude, we all know it can be done. Sure. But you don't split rounds with a hatchet. You can split wood with an axe, but a maul is even better.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on August 04, 2015, 05:28:55 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on August 04, 2015, 05:30:59 PM
Post by: jdb on August 04, 2015, 05:49:42 PM
Post by: superdown on August 04, 2015, 05:51:49 PM
That's right. But I'd have begun with a rifle that would drop em right there! :chuckle: :)Although i don't disagree with using more gun what i did notice in the article was the fact that bullets exited the which means there was more then enough power but the CNS was not hit so using a more powerful cartridge would be even more difficult to shoot accurately so what needs to be found is an example where the CNS was hit with the 45-70.Because to say "But I'd have begun with a rifle that would drop em right there!" is entirely to broad of a statement when it is no guarantee just because the cartridge chosen is more powerful.
Look dude, we all know it can be done. Sure. But you don't split rounds with a hatchet. You can split wood with an axe, but a maul is even better.
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 06:01:05 PM
Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is.
Well said! :tup:
Big Magnums. No replacement for displacement.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-9_zps2f66bbee.jpg&hash=77aefa26039594332208dc6391b0946cf35ffc0a) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-9_zps2f66bbee.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-34_zps1c20d4ca.jpg&hash=1a4e12d5644160f4c082862fda977dc3bf321c7c) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/photo-34_zps1c20d4ca.jpg.html)
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 06:08:01 PM
And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.
Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.
Post by: superdown on August 04, 2015, 06:08:08 PM
That is well said but most of the advice is coming from people who have not shot the rifles or game or the rifles at game. Shooting static targets with all the bells and whistles does not translate to the real world.I am just curios as to how much is truly necessary? There is no point in shooting the most powerful cartridge at something you can't hit and we all know it's not 243 for elk debate. :chuckle: BTW doesn't the 45-70 have just as much displacement as those rounds you have pictured with the heavy bullets. :dunno:Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is.
Well said! :tup:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 06:20:08 PM
how many different types of bullets do you need?And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.
Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.
I'll take the flatter trajectory and higher energy of the 375 for any use.
But what do I know? I have only killed numerous big game animals with both the 375 and the 45-70. Both did a great job of putting the animals (bear, deer, elk, moose down) but the 375 outshines on performance in my eyes. As always to each their own. You can't argue the energy and trajectory aspects tho.
Or you could always go with a belted rimless 375 nitro express. :tung:
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 06:21:35 PM
Wow I didnt realize suggesting a 45/70 was going to start such a heated debate! I only brought it up because I think it's a cool round and the Marlins a cool gun and it's what I'd want to use. Im sure the .375 is more that capable it just dosnst float my boat. If it floats yours that's awesome! More power to you! As far as lethality within its limited range capabilities I'm sure mbogo won't be able to tell the difference. As far as ph's go in pretty sure sam fadala is a licensed ph and uses a marlin 45/70 as his back up rifle.I seem to recall ole Sam taking one down with a 30/06 a few years back on a special permit with one shot! :dunno:
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 06:39:57 PM
I need as many kinds of bullets as I can get!! I know the energy and trajectory edge goes to the 375. I'm just question it's ability to expend it's energy in smaller lighter targets. Could it dump as much energy into a deer as say a 300 grain soft cast hollow point into a deer as a 45-70?how many different types of bullets do you need?And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.
Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.
I'll take the flatter trajectory and higher energy of the 375 for any use.
But what do I know? I have only killed numerous big game animals with both the 375 and the 45-70. Both did a great job of putting the animals (bear, deer, elk, moose down) but the 375 outshines on performance in my eyes. As always to each their own. You can't argue the energy and trajectory aspects tho.
Or you could always go with a belted rimless 375 nitro express. :tung:
Post by: grundy53 on August 04, 2015, 06:41:59 PM
Would it need to? I would actually prefer it not to dump that much energy into a deer.I need as many kinds of bullets as I can get!! I know the energy and trajectory edge goes to the 375. I'm just question it's ability to expend it's energy in smaller lighter targets. Could it dump as much energy into a deer as say a 300 grain soft cast hollow point into a deer as a 45-70?how many different types of bullets do you need?And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.
Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.
I'll take the flatter trajectory and higher energy of the 375 for any use.
But what do I know? I have only killed numerous big game animals with both the 375 and the 45-70. Both did a great job of putting the animals (bear, deer, elk, moose down) but the 375 outshines on performance in my eyes. As always to each their own. You can't argue the energy and trajectory aspects tho.
Or you could always go with a belted rimless 375 nitro express. :tung:
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 06:47:22 PM
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 06:49:25 PM
Post by: BNAElkhntr on August 04, 2015, 06:54:18 PM
the bore restriction is mainly because of incompetent shooters from Europe and the America's Competent PH's Who for their Tests spend countless Hours in shooting courses could probably kill any thing on this planet with a 6.5 but even they back up Clients with serious Guns
they know exactly when it hits the fan BiggerHammers statement (Big Magnums. No replacement for displacement) is the only Gun
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 06:59:18 PM
That is well said but most of the advice is coming from people who have not shot the rifles or game or the rifles at game. Shooting static targets with all the bells and whistles does not translate to the real world.I am just curios as to how much is truly necessary? There is no point in shooting the most powerful cartridge at something you can't hit and we all know it's not 243 for elk debate. :chuckle: BTW doesn't the 45-70 have just as much displacement as those rounds you have pictured with the heavy bullets. :dunno:Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is.
Well said! :tup:
How much is enough? When it comes to the magnums I shoot. I don't know how much of that energy or bullet weight it's going to take but I sure know how much I brought!
I know of a mule deer buck killed with a .177 pellet rifle at 1000fps and that's a fact. ;)
Post by: theleo on August 04, 2015, 07:08:42 PM
Cast bullets. Problem solved, if you adhere to that idea.Not exactly, the flat nose/diameter of the hollow point for the .458 is close to the total diameter of a 375. The 375 has the 45-70 beat on the heavy end but I'm not convinced it's beat it on the light end. If hunting in areas where homes are in close vacinity it can matter. Some want a big Africa rifle, I'd think it'd be great to have a rifle that handles Cape buffalo down to dear near the farm just as well.
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 07:12:19 PM
Post by: Bill W on August 04, 2015, 07:20:25 PM
Wow I didnt realize suggesting a 45/70 was going to start such a heated debate! I only brought it up because I think it's a cool round and the Marlins a cool gun and it's what I'd want to use. Im sure the .375 is more that capable it just dosnst float my boat. If it floats yours that's awesome! More power to you! As far as lethality within its limited range capabilities I'm sure mbogo won't be able to tell the difference. As far as ph's go in pretty sure sam fadala is a licensed ph and uses a marlin 45/70 as his back up rifle.I seem to recall ole Sam taking one down with a 30/06 a few years back on a special permit with one shot! :dunno:
Finn Aagard told of shooting one with a .22 Hornet as a kid.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on August 04, 2015, 07:23:49 PM
No,no,no. Missed what I was saying. If your worried bout 375 power on a deer, use cast bullets. No law saying you have to shoot max load 300grains at deer, or bear, or bowling pins for that matter.
I'd think a 375 shootin 260 accubonds would be a hellava deer/elk/ bear gun!
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 07:32:23 PM
I've wanted one since my first work of the bolt of the one I shot. I'd elk hunt with one everyday of the season. Was a 338wm guy forever. Deer, yotes, bear everything. Working with a 35 Whelan now. Guess next is a 375.
FWIW, I think a 338wm can do pretty much all a HH can. I'd have no problem bracing buff or a big puddy tat.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on August 04, 2015, 07:36:56 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 07:41:50 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on August 04, 2015, 07:44:56 PM
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 07:58:50 PM
huh???Hmm, I know several who have shot clean thru big bulls, both side shots and head ons, with a marlin in 45/70...one even dropped a big cow on the off side of a big bull after passing thru him. Went clean thru her too!
Isn't it legal to hunt those cows with a .243?
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 08:46:00 PM
No,no,no. Missed what I was saying. If your worried bout 375 power on a deer, use cast bullets. No law saying you have to shoot max load 300grains at deer, or bear, or bowling pins for that matter.
I'd think a 375 shootin 260 accubonds would be a hellava deer/elk/ bear gun!
I know the .375 Ultra Magnum with 260 Accubonds flat crushes animals. Tried the now obsolete 260gr Ballistic Tips in my 375 Ultra and had poor results. They weren't designed for the Ultra Magnums velocities but worked great in a .375 H&H I had. Switched to the 260 Accubond in the .375 Ultra and it has flat devastated everything I have shot with it. Literally knocks big mule deer off there feet, even at distance( Over 500 yards).
260gr Nosler .375 Accubond.(Rem700 XCR).
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-69_zps0b7ad8b4.jpg&hash=30df564224803f1f7637b93a74eeaea8b0ffa39d)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FDSC01099_zps36344eed.jpg&hash=c486b4a69ffe7a1b785cf831e198056fabb63078) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/DSC01099_zps36344eed.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FDSC01103_zps143c6514.jpg&hash=afeda756ed46a951d4c0be63d52fc2b460a749d5) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/DSC01103_zps143c6514.jpg.html)
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 08:59:36 PM
Here's a pic from last trip to limpopo.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2015, 09:03:02 PM
Always love how predictable most of these " which caliber do you suggest" posts can become.. If someone suggest a big caliber, others advocate overkill/ you need a smaller gun. If someone states a smaller caliber works, the overkill crowd now becomes large caliber believers. When the chest beating stops, truth can be found in both camps..obviously you didn't have a big enough gun! That sucker is still alive!!! :chuckle:
Here's a pic from last trip to limpopo.
Cool pic.
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 09:06:08 PM
Post by: yorketransport on August 04, 2015, 09:19:41 PM
Wow I didnt realize suggesting a 45/70 was going to start such a heated debate! I only brought it up because I think it's a cool round and the Marlins a cool gun and it's what I'd want to use. Im sure the .375 is more that capable it just dosnst float my boat. If it floats yours that's awesome! More power to you! As far as lethality within its limited range capabilities I'm sure mbogo won't be able to tell the difference. As far as ph's go in pretty sure sam fadala is a licensed ph and uses a marlin 45/70 as his back up rifle.
There's the answer! The 470 Mbogo! It even has the right name! Argument's over and decided. Now go track down a Bruno 602 action and start building your rifle. :tup:
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 09:30:18 PM
:tup:Wow I didnt realize suggesting a 45/70 was going to start such a heated debate! I only brought it up because I think it's a cool round and the Marlins a cool gun and it's what I'd want to use. Im sure the .375 is more that capable it just dosnst float my boat. If it floats yours that's awesome! More power to you! As far as lethality within its limited range capabilities I'm sure mbogo won't be able to tell the difference. As far as ph's go in pretty sure sam fadala is a licensed ph and uses a marlin 45/70 as his back up rifle.
There's the answer! The 470 Mbogo! It even has the right name! Argument's over and decided. Now go track down a Bruno 602 action and start building your rifle. :tup:
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 09:35:54 PM
at 20 yards, flat Huge!!Always love how predictable most of these " which caliber do you suggest" posts can become.. If someone suggest a big caliber, others advocate overkill/ you need a smaller gun. If someone states a smaller caliber works, the overkill crowd now becomes large caliber believers. When the chest beating stops, truth can be found in both camps..obviously you didn't have a big enough gun! That sucker is still alive!!! :chuckle:
Here's a pic from last trip to limpopo.
Cool pic.
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 09:49:32 PM
Edit: 1 shot
Post by: MountainWalk on August 04, 2015, 09:51:44 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 09:53:30 PM
The gent in the middle looks like he done scoped himself.
:chuckle:
Post by: yorketransport on August 04, 2015, 09:55:44 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 10:02:45 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on August 04, 2015, 10:21:39 PM
50 BMG 650 grain X bullet. out of my Barrett in the bottom picture next to a 243 Win. round.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1109.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh427%2FJimthePlumber17%2FIMG_20131216_213049_164_zps342c2a73.jpg&hash=28caeb98e3451c36c13edf143cdbff1bc6be43d9)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1109.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh427%2FJimthePlumber17%2Fphotobucket-1368-1368668469538_zps033af7c4.jpg&hash=0f928e22e9facd027961eed6c91434a1fa47dfbe)
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 04, 2015, 10:27:20 PM
Post by: mountainman on August 04, 2015, 10:37:03 PM
Post by: shootem on August 05, 2015, 02:07:31 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 05, 2015, 06:08:53 PM
:tup:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FIMG_1165_zpsffe6ad81.jpg&hash=16932f216445d9407a830c3079cb76f643a8890e) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1165_zpsffe6ad81.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FFullSizeRender_zpsaa7264f0.jpg&hash=76ebdc6ea70a2c6cfbaa27f9bdf9a195d1b81eab) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsaa7264f0.jpg.html)
Post by: yorketransport on August 05, 2015, 08:36:55 PM
:tup:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FIMG_1165_zpsffe6ad81.jpg&hash=16932f216445d9407a830c3079cb76f643a8890e) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1165_zpsffe6ad81.jpg.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FFullSizeRender_zpsaa7264f0.jpg&hash=76ebdc6ea70a2c6cfbaa27f9bdf9a195d1b81eab) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsaa7264f0.jpg.html)
Show off....... :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on August 06, 2015, 03:09:08 AM
I like .375 H&H cases. :tup:
Post by: HntnFsh on August 06, 2015, 05:10:00 AM
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?p=10660386#post10660386
Post by: Bob33 on August 06, 2015, 06:35:14 AM
Post by: theleo on August 06, 2015, 08:03:52 AM
For me the .375 is a no brainer. It is more than capable of taking any game in the world including cape buffalo. It is way more versatile, easier to shoot(still a banger), and cheaper then the bigger guns of Africa. It is perfect for grizzly, moose, bison, polar bear, or anything else North America will present. I found it particularly comforting hunting moose with my .375 in Montana grizzly country many years ago.I knew if a bear problem occurred my gun would be enough to handle the problem. Would you really ever have a need to use the bigger African calibers for anything other than the WOW factor? Since a .375 H&H is big enough to take everything in the world why would you need something bigger. If money is no object buy anything you want. For a guy like me that money matters anything else doesn't make sense.
And of all those animals what ones has never been killed with something less powerful than a 375 H&H? As I remember hearing in old magazines their was at least one professional ivory who was highly successful with 7X57...
Post by: shootem on August 10, 2015, 02:13:44 PM
May get to go to south Africa for cape buffalo and looking for recommendation for the right gun to take. I only know it has to be 375 or larger. thanks in advance.
Post by: Ingwe on August 11, 2015, 10:17:48 PM