african cape buffalo rifle

[theleo]

The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.

Agreed! The 47-70 is a dog of a cartridge for Africa.

OK, then explain why a hot loaded 45-70 will be woefully incapable of dispatching a cape buffalo. 375's are fine for Africa but have limited uses here except for the big bears up north. 45-70's can loaded for very economically, have a huge range of components to load with, and (in the case of Rugers or converted bolt guns) have three power levels to choose from. I've seen many photos of large bore single shots from Africa and wonder if a person is relying on a 375 in a bolt gun if they would really have enough time to get to the bottom of that magazine before they are a pile of goo. I was also under the impression in the situation of charges, that the PH had the fight stopper rifle and the client was supposed to make his shot count when he pulls the trigger the first time.

Simply put, explain why a person should invest in a rifle they'll ever really use in Africa instead of one that would get the job done there but also be well suited for hunting trips here as well? Why not have a life time of memories with a rifle than just one or two trips worth of memories with one?

[birddogdad]

The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.

Agreed! The 47-70 is a dog of a cartridge for Africa.

OK, then explain why a hot loaded 45-70 will be woefully incapable of dispatching a cape buffalo. 375's are fine for Africa but have limited uses here except for the big bears up north. 45-70's can loaded for very economically, have a huge range of components to load with, and (in the case of Rugers or converted bolt guns) have three power levels to choose from. I've seen many photos of large bore single shots from Africa and wonder if a person is relying on a 375 in a bolt gun if they would really have enough time to get to the bottom of that magazine before they are a pile of goo. I was also under the impression in the situation of charges, that the PH had the fight stopper rifle and the client was supposed to make his shot count when he pulls the trigger the first time.

Simply put, explain why a person should invest in a rifle they'll ever really use in Africa instead of one that would get the job done there but also be well suited for hunting trips here as well? Why not have a life time of memories with a rifle than just one or two trips worth of memories with one?

if you are traveling to another continent to hunt, clearly able to pay for the experience, asking for gun input, then money is not a reason to not get a rifle specific to fit and function.. 2 words: stopping power.. you think your PE is going to carry a 45/70 to back you? not hardly....   

[BULLBLASTER]

A 375 can be loaded up or down for any game that we have here also. I used mine last year to kill a black bear, mule deer buck, and a bull moose. Imo it outshines the 45-70 in every way possible. Bolt gun vs lever or single, I'll take a bolt. Bullets from 200-300+ grains. Great bullets to use from solids to cup and core and everything in between.
All this coming from a person who has owned both.
Not saying that the 45-70 is useless but the 375 is. Definitely more versatile I think.
I don't see how a 375 wouldn't be useful here 

[BULLBLASTER]

If I was going to get a dedicated cape buff gun for one hunt it would be neither a 375 or a 45-70. It would be a great big double and ammo to practice!
Assuming money is no object here

[MountainWalk]

Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?

[MP123]

I love my Ruger #1 45/70 but if I was going to Africa I think I'd take the excuse to get a 375 H&H.  I mean you can never have too many guns right? 

Seems like the 375H&H might be a little better if you were shooting plains game at a distance along with your Cape buffalo.  Maybe a little more versatile at longer ranges...

[coachcw]

.375

[theleo]

I'm make the assumption that people are price conscious and that average Joe might be saving money for a good long while before having a chance to go to Africa so may not want to buy a rifle for a once in a lifetime hunt and instead have a rifle well suited for many situations here as well. I'm aware the 45-70 is not tops on the list for Africa and that PH's don't use them, their rifles are used for when things go wrong and are in whole different class of cartridges for that reason. Yes, a 375 can be used here especially when down loaded but availability, price, and bullet selection stinks. A 45-70 on the other hand can be loaded to light cowboy style loads (300 grain bullets going 800 ish), trapdoor pressures (425 grain bullets going 1300 ish that decimated our bison heards), marlin and model 86 loads (425 grain going 1700 ish), or full tilt loads (500 grain bullets going 1800 ish). Ammo for it can be found on the shelf in many places, bullets can be had from many places, in many styles, and can be purchased cheap (midway has many cast .458 bullets in the 40 cent a piece range).

So if Cape buffalo are the biggest critter on the list, how is it that the 45-70 is an inadequate choice of weapon?

[Jonathan_S]

This thread is making me feel less manly.  The .45-70 is the biggest a$$ whooping I've got in my safe 

The 45-70, in any configuration, especially a SINGLE shot, will never be a reliable fight stopper. 375'S are super versatile.

So a short barreled lever gun with 5 quick rounds isn't a reliable fight stopper 

[MountainWalk]

All the reasons you gave for the 45-70, could be said in spades about a 375.

A new marlin guide gun cost just a little bit more than a 375 Ruger. I've never been in a store that had 45-70 but didn't have the Holland- Holland.

Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is. I would rather have the 375HH or Ruger for a one gun North American battery than a 45-70 in any flavor. Hell,  even the lower 48.

[grundy53]

I'm make the assumption that people are price conscious and that average Joe might be saving money for a good long while before having a chance to go to Africa so may not want to buy a rifle for a once in a lifetime hunt and instead have a rifle well suited for many situations here as well. I'm aware the 45-70 is not tops on the list for Africa and that PH's don't use them, their rifles are used for when things go wrong and are in whole different class of cartridges for that reason. Yes, a 375 can be used here especially when down loaded but availability, price, and bullet selection stinks. A 45-70 on the other hand can be loaded to light cowboy style loads (300 grain bullets going 800 ish), trapdoor pressures (425 grain bullets going 1300 ish that decimated our bison heards), marlin and model 86 loads (425 grain going 1700 ish), or full tilt loads (500 grain bullets going 1800 ish). Ammo for it can be found on the shelf in many places, bullets can be had from many places, in many styles, and can be purchased cheap (midway has many cast .458 bullets in the 40 cent a piece range).

So if Cape buffalo are the biggest critter on the list, how is it that the 45-70 is an inadequate choice of weapon?

If it's illegal to use there why are you even debating it? It isn't an option.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[MountainWalk]

John S-    For cape buffalo? No way.  Just as I asked earlier: what would you carry sans PH, all by yourself.

African heat and temps and dusty conditions, highly hot loaded rounds in a thin rimmed case out of a lever action is asking for problems.

[Jonathan_S]

John S-    For cape buffalo? No way.  Just as I asked earlier: what would you carry sans PH, all by yourself.

African heat and temps and dusty conditions, highly hot loaded rounds in a thin rimmed case out of a lever action is asking for problems.

I'm not calling it superior, I just meant in a close range, "bang, bang, bang, bang..." follow up shots.  It's a moot point for me.  I shouldn't have really posted.  I have zero interest in hunting Africa 

When I was two shakes from a grizzly hunt, my gun purchase was going to be a .375 H&H 

[superdown]

This has me wondering also over on marlin owners forum there is a lot of members from Australia that commonly hunt the Asian water buffalo with the 45-70 and it seems to be the favorite round of choice for them.It says on Wikipedia that the cape buffalo is only slightly larger so it wouldn't seem to far fetched to consider it as a choice? I will likely never hunt either place or animal but it doesn't make sense that it would work with continued success on the Asian water buffalo and be completely inadequate for cape buffalo.          

[MountainWalk]

One is more tenacious to life and a helluva lot more likely to give you grief than the other.