african cape buffalo rifle

[superdown]

Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is.

Well said!

That is well said but most of the advice is coming from people who have not shot the rifles or game or the rifles at game. Shooting static targets with all the bells and whistles does not translate to the real world.I am just curios as to how much is truly necessary? There is no point in shooting the most powerful cartridge at something you can't hit  and we all know it's not 243 for elk debate. BTW doesn't the 45-70 have just as much displacement as those rounds you have pictured with the heavy bullets.

[BULLBLASTER]

Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?

One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.

Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a  person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.

From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.

And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.

how many different types of bullets do you need?
I'll take the flatter trajectory and higher energy of the 375 for any use.
But what do I know? I have only killed numerous big game animals with both the 375 and the 45-70. Both did a great job of putting the animals (bear, deer, elk, moose down) but the 375 outshines on performance in my eyes. As always to each their own. You can't argue the energy and trajectory aspects tho.
Or you could always go with a belted rimless 375 nitro express.   

[mountainman]

Wow I didnt realize suggesting a 45/70 was going to start such a heated debate! I only brought it up because I think it's a cool round and the Marlins a cool gun and it's what I'd want to use. Im sure the .375 is more that capable it just dosnst float my boat. If it floats yours that's awesome! More power to you! As far as lethality within its limited range  capabilities I'm sure mbogo won't be able to tell the difference. As far as ph's go in pretty sure sam fadala is a licensed ph and uses a marlin 45/70 as his back up rifle.

I seem to recall ole Sam taking one down with a 30/06 a few years back on a special permit with one shot!

[theleo]

Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?

One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.

Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a  person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.

From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.

And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.

how many different types of bullets do you need?
I'll take the flatter trajectory and higher energy of the 375 for any use.
But what do I know? I have only killed numerous big game animals with both the 375 and the 45-70. Both did a great job of putting the animals (bear, deer, elk, moose down) but the 375 outshines on performance in my eyes. As always to each their own. You can't argue the energy and trajectory aspects tho.
Or you could always go with a belted rimless 375 nitro express.   

I need as many kinds of bullets as I can get!! I know the energy and trajectory edge goes to the 375. I'm just question it's ability to expend it's energy in smaller lighter targets. Could it dump as much energy into a deer as say a 300 grain soft cast hollow point into a deer as a 45-70?

[grundy53]

Look at it this way 45-70 guys, what would you carry if you were by yourself?

One that I've shot hundreds of rounds through, know every little quirk of, and that I'm so comfortable with that it feels like an extension of my arm. A rifle that I'm confident enough to bet thousands of dollars and my life on, that the bullet goes where I want every time I pull the trigger.

Now, how is it easier to achieve that with a true African big bore over a 45-70? Besides just quoting pure horse power how is it that the a 45-70 with correct loads would be unable to deliver a critical hit to the CNS of a cape buffalo in a frontal charge? Will it not penetrate the skull or spine? Is it unable to penetrate shoulders on broadside shots to get to vitals if a  person fudged the shot to far forward? Enlighten us as to why it's such a bad idea.

From the op it seems to me like he would buy a new gun for this hunt if he gets to go. The way I see it there's no reason to buy a 45-70 over a 375.

And the way I see it is there is no reason to pick a 375 over a 45-70. It's all personal preference and to me the 45-70 is a better choice once back from Africa. Yes the 375 is more powerful but what does the extra umph gain you over the 375? A quick look at Midway shows a huge selection of .458 bullets over a more limited selection of 375 bullets. In my experience if you're hunting in the states and need a box of ammo the mom and pop type store in middle of nowhere Idaho is far more likely to have a box of 45-70's.
For the specific task of Cape buffalo a 375 of some variety could very well likely be the rite choice. I'm not really trying to say 45-70 is the perfect choice just trying to see why give up the availability of ammo and variety of reloading components for such African designed rounds? I'm happy to be wrong, I'd just like to know why I am.

how many different types of bullets do you need?
I'll take the flatter trajectory and higher energy of the 375 for any use.
But what do I know? I have only killed numerous big game animals with both the 375 and the 45-70. Both did a great job of putting the animals (bear, deer, elk, moose down) but the 375 outshines on performance in my eyes. As always to each their own. You can't argue the energy and trajectory aspects tho.
Or you could always go with a belted rimless 375 nitro express.   

I need as many kinds of bullets as I can get!! I know the energy and trajectory edge goes to the 375. I'm just question it's ability to expend it's energy in smaller lighter targets. Could it dump as much energy into a deer as say a 300 grain soft cast hollow point into a deer as a 45-70?

Would it need to? I would actually prefer it not to dump that much energy into a deer.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[MountainWalk]

Cast bullets. Problem solved, if you adhere to that idea.

[theleo]

I prefer to keep the energy going out the other side to minimum. A bullet like that can be easily ran to 1200 to 1400 fps. A 44 mag is capable of that, a 30-06 with 150 grain balistic would make a whole lot bigger mess.

[BNAElkhntr]

Look I'll settle it      the 45/70 and the 375 hh are from a by gone era  My 338 rem ultra mag has more energy than both of them and its not legal and I accept it That's why I Have A 416 rem mag
the bore restriction  is mainly because of incompetent shooters from Europe and the America's   Competent PH's  Who for their Tests spend countless Hours in shooting courses  could probably  kill any thing on this planet with a 6.5    but even they back up Clients with serious Guns
they know exactly  when it hits the fan BiggerHammers statement (Big Magnums. No replacement for displacement) is the only Gun

[Biggerhammer]

Stroke your ego and use a 45-70. But cheering louder for it don't make it anymore powerful than what it is.

Well said!

That is well said but most of the advice is coming from people who have not shot the rifles or game or the rifles at game. Shooting static targets with all the bells and whistles does not translate to the real world.I am just curios as to how much is truly necessary? There is no point in shooting the most powerful cartridge at something you can't hit  and we all know it's not 243 for elk debate. BTW doesn't the 45-70 have just as much displacement as those rounds you have pictured with the heavy bullets.

How much is enough? When it comes to the magnums I shoot. I don't know how much of that energy or bullet weight it's going to take but I sure know how much I brought!

I know of a mule deer buck killed with a .177 pellet rifle at 1000fps and that's a fact.

[theleo]

Cast bullets. Problem solved, if you adhere to that idea.

Not exactly, the flat nose/diameter of the hollow point for the .458 is close to the total diameter of a 375. The 375 has the 45-70 beat on the heavy end but I'm not convinced it's beat it on the light end. If hunting in areas where homes are in close vacinity it can matter. Some want a big Africa rifle, I'd think it'd be great to have a rifle that handles Cape buffalo down to dear near the farm just as well.

[MountainWalk]

No,no,no. Missed what I was saying. If your worried bout 375 power on a deer, use cast bullets. No law saying you have to shoot max load 300grains at deer, or bear, or bowling pins for that matter.

[Bill W]

Wow I didnt realize suggesting a 45/70 was going to start such a heated debate! I only brought it up because I think it's a cool round and the Marlins a cool gun and it's what I'd want to use. Im sure the .375 is more that capable it just dosnst float my boat. If it floats yours that's awesome! More power to you! As far as lethality within its limited range  capabilities I'm sure mbogo won't be able to tell the difference. As far as ph's go in pretty sure sam fadala is a licensed ph and uses a marlin 45/70 as his back up rifle.

I seem to recall ole Sam taking one down with a 30/06 a few years back on a special permit with one shot!

Finn Aagard told of shooting one with a .22 Hornet as a kid.

[257 Wby Mag]

No,no,no. Missed what I was saying. If your worried bout 375 power on a deer, use cast bullets. No law saying you have to shoot max load 300grains at deer, or bear, or bowling pins for that matter.

I'd think a 375 shootin 260 accubonds would be a hellava deer/elk/ bear gun!

[MountainWalk]

You know it, 257.

I've wanted one since my first work of the bolt of the one I shot.   I'd elk hunt with one everyday of the season. Was a 338wm guy forever. Deer, yotes, bear everything. Working with a 35 Whelan now. Guess next is a 375.

FWIW, I think a 338wm can do pretty much all a HH can. I'd have no problem bracing buff or a big puddy tat.

[257 Wby Mag]

I've ran a couple whelens, several 338' s love em both!! I'd hunt cape buffalo with either th her clambering, without a thought. Been pondering another 338, dunno if I wanna go custom, or just hi t a xcr and go huntin???