Post by: D-Rock425 on June 21, 2016, 08:42:13 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on June 21, 2016, 08:46:41 AM
Post by: NW-GSP on June 21, 2016, 08:48:51 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on June 21, 2016, 08:51:14 AM
Anyone experience with the mid 2000's 6.0 liter from Ford. Was looking at an 05 with low miles but sounds like a lot of people shy away from that motor.If all the upgrades have been done they are pretty good. If the upgrades have not been done you may be in for an uphill battle. :twocents:
Post by: highside74 on June 21, 2016, 08:51:42 AM
http://www.powerstrokehub.com/6.0-power-stroke-problems.html
That being said, when they are fixed with upgraded parts they tend to be better.
Post by: MagKarl on June 21, 2016, 08:52:09 AM
Post by: Grit dog on June 21, 2016, 08:52:41 AM
I would buy that truck one of 2 ways.
1. Significantly MORE than $5k off the book value with the plans to spend $4-5k to bulletproof it. And at that, only with record of meticulous maintenance. The 6.0 all around is much more finicky when it comes to proper maint.
2. Still way cheaper than book and already bulletproofed by a reputable mechanic AND maint records.
There really are none to very few deals on used diesel pickups these days, so if this seems to be a deal, there's likely a reason for that.
Post by: Jpmiller on June 21, 2016, 08:59:21 AM
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2016, 09:01:47 AM
Bulletproof products out of AZ and then the stud headgasket kit.
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Post by: bowpredator on June 21, 2016, 09:08:00 AM
Post by: Encore 280 on June 21, 2016, 09:11:36 AM
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2016, 09:33:15 AM
A low milage vehicle likely has not had this issue and if it has the effects are not so bad. The head studs are a problem but if your not pulling hard and keep everything cool you would have less potential problems.
Do bulletproof ingredients first then do studs.
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Post by: Encore 280 on June 21, 2016, 10:05:34 AM
Post by: jackelope on June 21, 2016, 10:09:49 AM
That or buy a mid 2000's Duramax and drive it and never look back.
Post by: jackelope on June 21, 2016, 10:11:31 AM
The 3 big problems revolve around oil. 1 the crappie egr design allows either oil in the coolant or coolant in oil if there is a leak. Both are bad. 2 you oil will only be cooled down to 180 max. In w WA this isn't much of an issue but where it's hot your hosed cause you oil won't be less than your coolant. 3 the crappie oil filter design relies on 2 plastic prices that get brittle and break. This prevents oil from actually circulating through the filter...
A low milage vehicle likely has not had this issue and if it has the effects are not so bad. The head studs are a problem but if your not pulling hard and keep everything cool you would have less potential problems.
Do bulletproof ingredients first then do studs.
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Studs are mostly not needed unless you're overboosting the turbo. If the headgaskets happen to leak, don't replace them without installing ARP head studs....that would be silly....but there's no point in ripping it apart for no other reason that to just install head studs.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 21, 2016, 10:13:03 AM
Buy the truck and then put $5k under your mattress and save it for when the headgaskets blow and or the EGR cooler cracks/leaks. Then buy the Billetproof diesel stuff, have it installed and never look back.
That or buy a mid 2000's Duramax and drive it and never look back.
Because they don't eat turbo's, have mechanical water pumps which take poops and have injector replacement bills of around $5K...lol..
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 21, 2016, 10:23:15 AM
Then comes the Chev's with DEF... Every one of them has been in the shop multiple times with issues. One they couldn't figure out the problem after bringing in a head Chevy tech from the Eastcoast so, they gave us a new GMC Dually Gasser.
So, we're back to Fords again trying a mix of gas power and diesel. Gas trucks do pretty good. Maintenance cost is way lower and we can buy three for the price of two diesels.
6L powerstrokes are junk. no way around it. They last about as long as a new DEF sucking Chevy... 125-150K mile engines.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 21, 2016, 10:31:49 AM
Drive a 2006 Yota work truck 190k
Post by: Encore 280 on June 21, 2016, 10:49:00 AM
Post by: Skillet on June 21, 2016, 10:51:53 AM
The good info: 6.0 have known weaknesses, and are fixable for an investment that should be reflected in the lower cost of the truck vs. 2005 Duramax. The trucks themselves are very good.
The bad info: any blanket statement that 6.0's are junk. A cared for, upgraded and properly maintained 6.0 is a great engine with plenty of power and reliability.
I bought my 2006 new, learned about the issues and what to keep an eye on, did the fixes when the time was right (cost me under $2k in parts and some shop labor). As a result, I am a happy Ford 6.0 owner who gets a chuckle at the expense of the folks who are scared of a little extra work to fix the EGR/oil cooling system that Ford didn't get right.
All that said - an improperly cared for 6.0 is going to be a headache. They don't like dirty oil at all and the expensive injectors that give this small v8 such great performance & mileage suffer if the previous owner didnt change oil on schedule. Do the research on the maintenance history, check the Engine Oil Temp against the Engine Coolant Temp (known as the EOT/EGT delta) and pm or call me with any Q's. If you end up buying it, I'll come up and show you how to do the few little annual maintenance things that most people don't, resulting in this DEF-free engine getting an unnecessarily bad reputation.
Good luck D-Rock!
Post by: MADMAX on June 21, 2016, 10:54:32 AM
I haul a 8800 lb dry bumper mount RV trailer or switch out to a 8.5ft camper from time to time, or boat etc
Love it
Yea I had to do a few things, I sure work more on the wifes Denali than my Ford.
I did the studs on the heads and rebuilt the Turbo, EGR delete kit, SVT tuner, leveling kit with 20 inch BFGs and airbags, not much else besides brakes or oil changes/fuel filter
Bought it brand new for 36K
10 years later and I have a few guys that would love to get it for 20K every-time I mention selling it the RV and the camper and downsizing to Class B motor home
I can launch my boat with my Toyota Tacoma, its my run around rig.
If you get one have it looked at and buy it if its a good deal,dont let the Dodge boys and Duramax guys scare you off it.
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2016, 11:01:17 AM
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Post by: jackelope on June 21, 2016, 11:11:19 AM
Buy the truck and then put $5k under your mattress and save it for when the headgaskets blow and or the EGR cooler cracks/leaks. Then buy the Billetproof diesel stuff, have it installed and never look back.
That or buy a mid 2000's Duramax and drive it and never look back.
Because they don't eat turbo's, have mechanical water pumps which take poops and have injector replacement bills of around $5K...lol..
we run about 20 HD pickups in our fleet. Had 6.0's. Lasted about 150,000 before they dropped like flies. Bought Duramax's. The 2004-pre- DEF trucks are rock solid for the most part. Some electrical issues with transmissions but, nothing major.
Then comes the Chev's with DEF... Every one of them has been in the shop multiple times with issues. One they couldn't figure out the problem after bringing in a head Chevy tech from the Eastcoast so, they gave us a new GMC Dually Gasser.
So, we're back to Fords again trying a mix of gas power and diesel. Gas trucks do pretty good. Maintenance cost is way lower and we can buy three for the price of two diesels.
6L powerstrokes are junk. no way around it. They last about as long as a new DEF sucking Chevy... 125-150K mile engines.
Mid 2000's Duramax trucks have always been really good. They don't use DEF. The first DEF trucks for GM were 2011.
DPF emissions is when all the problems started with the big 3. Around mid model year 2007-2008.
The first DEF trucks for Ford were 2011 also when the 6.7 came out. The 6.7 Powerstrokes are better than the 6.0 and 6.4's. We do replace EGR coolers in them now and then, but they are easier and not "as" expensive. The cab doesn't have to come off. Dodge's lighter trucks were able to meet emissions requirements for a few more years before they had to go to the DEF system...maybe 2013 on their 2500 and 3500 trucks. The bigger trucks, cab/chassis, 4500, 5500 started in 2011 also.
DEF= Diesel exhaust fluid(urea based fluid you have to keep filled)
DPF=Diesel particulate filter(exhaust component)
Post by: Skillet on June 21, 2016, 12:18:17 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on June 21, 2016, 12:31:59 PM
Post by: MADMAX on June 21, 2016, 12:56:51 PM
Taking it to scout this Thurs-weekend for SIL observatory tag archery bull, somewhere between BBQ flats and Quartz
Post by: Encore 280 on June 21, 2016, 01:05:30 PM
Post by: ryan8888 on June 21, 2016, 02:00:17 PM
Anyone experience with the mid 2000's 6.0 liter from Ford. Was looking at an 05 with low miles but sounds like a lot of people shy away from that motor.Never buy a 6.0
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Post by: predatorpro on June 21, 2016, 02:18:54 PM
I agree with this! Unless you like to spend money then go for it!Anyone experience with the mid 2000's 6.0 liter from Ford. Was looking at an 05 with low miles but sounds like a lot of people shy away from that motor.Never buy a 6.0
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Post by: papisjeep on June 21, 2016, 05:40:11 PM
If that is you're willing to deal with the work or have the wallet
( head gaskets, oil cooler, egr delete, icp ,ipr, bad injectors, glow plug harnesses )
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2016, 06:42:20 PM
If you factor in the money for the inevitable issues they can be great motors after all the upgrades and fixes to the design
If that is you're willing to deal with the work or have the wallet
( head gaskets, oil cooler, egr delete, icp ,ipr, bad injectors, glow plug harnesses )
most of those issues problems stem from overheating the oil and it breaking down quicker with less filtration. If you were to set a 7.3 next to a 6.0 with similar miles and price id say go the 7.3 all day long and then some...
You will notice however than pre emissions diesels are going for a premium because all the crap that is out there now.
Post by: papisjeep on June 21, 2016, 08:56:03 PM
Post by: demontang on June 21, 2016, 10:10:35 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 22, 2016, 08:41:15 AM
Post by: Skillet on June 22, 2016, 09:30:17 AM
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
Post by: Mudman on June 22, 2016, 09:51:19 AM
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 09:57:21 AM
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
99% of the people buying these trucks don't have the slightest clue what that even means, nevermind that it's something that they should be aware of.
Really, 90% of them wouldn't even care if they did know. Most folks want to know their truck starts and stops. Beyond that, that's what shops are for.
Fix it when it breaks. It may not be logical, but I think it's true based on being surrounded by it 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
:twocents:
Post by: Woodchuck on June 22, 2016, 10:02:37 AM
:yeah:
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
99% of the people buying these trucks don't have the slightest clue what that even means, nevermind that it's something that they should be aware of.
Really, 90% of them wouldn't even care if they did know. Most folks want to know their truck starts and stops. Beyond that, that's what shops are for.
Fix it when it breaks. It may not be logical, but I think it's true based on being surrounded by it 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
:twocents:
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 10:13:36 AM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
Post by: whacker1 on June 22, 2016, 10:21:49 AM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
Which Ford motors of the 4 construction company trucks: 6.0 & 6.4 or are they newer 6.7?
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 10:22:48 AM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
Which Ford motors of the 4 construction company trucks: 6.0 & 6.4 or are they newer 6.7?
All of the above.
Post by: whacker1 on June 22, 2016, 10:23:13 AM
Post by: whacker1 on June 22, 2016, 10:24:03 AM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
Which Ford motors of the 4 construction company trucks: 6.0 & 6.4 or are they newer 6.7?
All of the above.
6.7 should probably be a separate thread? I will start a new one, but I want to know what others are experiencing.
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 10:29:17 AM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
Which Ford motors of the 4 construction company trucks: 6.0 & 6.4 or are they newer 6.7?
All of the above.
I misread. There's 4 trucks here that a company owns. 2 of them are getting multi-thousand dollar repairs.
One is a 6.7 that the turbo came apart on, grenaded. Metal/shrapnel throughout. It has 120K miles on it. The truck is a F550 and it weighs 20k pounds give or take a little.
The other is a 6.7 that is getting an EGR cooler because it's plugged and it also has fault codes for a DEF/Reductant heater circuit issue. We're waiting for authorization to drop the fuel tank to inspect a harness connector that can only be accessed by removing the fuel tank. The EGR cooler will run about $1k, and we're not sure where the other fault will end up. I'm seeking labor time of 3.5 hours at this time, and parts TBD once we find the problem. The labor may or may not increase, depending on what we find. That repair will likely run at least $2k total.
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 10:31:07 AM
Family member lost a head gasket & turbo on a 2006 duramax in the last month.....labor call for head gasket is 35 hours.....110,000 miles on it.
Labor time for both head gaskets is 35.6 hours. At $140 per hour, which is local going rate here, that's $5k just in labor.
Yikes.
They all have issues, some of which can be really expensive.
Post by: Skillet on June 22, 2016, 10:38:29 AM
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
99% of the people buying these trucks don't have the slightest clue what that even means, nevermind that it's something that they should be aware of.
Really, 90% of them wouldn't even care if they did know. Most folks want to know their truck starts and stops. Beyond that, that's what shops are for.
Fix it when it breaks. It may not be logical, but I think it's true based on being surrounded by it 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
:twocents:
Thats my point. If someone is considering a 6.0 truck they owe it to themselves to do a little research to sort the chaff from the wheat in terms of info they get on the net. There are a lot of uneducated, unhappy former 6.0 owners out there who propagate the bad info.
Bottom line is they are not inherently bad engines, and can actually be very good if the basic maintenance is done per spec, they are not hot rodded, and bad oil cooler / EGR cooler design Ford forced on a good International engine is actually paid attention to. With D-Rock considering a 6.0, I'm trying to illustrate the point that there is some work pre-purchase and maintenance wise, but with basic care and common sense these engines are not the time bombs they are made out to be. And with the negative public perception of them, you can get a helluva deal on a good truck.
:twocents:
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 10:44:19 AM
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
99% of the people buying these trucks don't have the slightest clue what that even means, nevermind that it's something that they should be aware of.
Really, 90% of them wouldn't even care if they did know. Most folks want to know their truck starts and stops. Beyond that, that's what shops are for.
Fix it when it breaks. It may not be logical, but I think it's true based on being surrounded by it 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
:twocents:
Thats my point. If someone is considering a 6.0 truck they owe it to themselves to do a little research to sort the chaff from the wheat in terms of info they get on the net. There are a lot of uneducated, unhappy former 6.0 owners out there who propagate the bad info.
Bottom line is they are not inherently bad engines, and can actually be very good if the basic maintenance is done per spec, they are not hot rodded, and bad oil cooler / EGR cooler design Ford forced on a good International engine is actually paid attention to. With D-Rock considering a 6.0, I'm trying to illustrate the point that there is some work pre-purchase and maintenance wise, but with basic care and common sense these engines are not the time bombs they are made out to be. And with the negative public perception of them, you can get a helluva deal on a good truck.
:twocents:
Biggest problem I see with that is not knowing what's been done to the extremely used truck you're going to find at this stage in the game. With the newest 6.0 available being almost 10 years old, I'd only buy one with low miles and maintenance records...which means he'll have to find an owner like you who knows what they're doing, who takes care of their truck and who keeps track of all of that stuff. Oh and one that hasn't been modified. It's a big risk and you're going to have a hard time finding that right truck. Even with what's considered low miles, it will be over 100k miles unless you find that rare truck with super low miles on it that someone's grandpa owned. Personally I think they will inherently have problems. I've seen enough of them to be scared of them....
Post by: whacker1 on June 22, 2016, 11:05:12 AM
Family member lost a head gasket & turbo on a 2006 duramax in the last month.....labor call for head gasket is 35 hours.....110,000 miles on it.
Labor time for both head gaskets is 35.6 hours. At $140 per hour, which is local going rate here, that's $5k just in labor.
Yikes.
They all have issues, some of which can be really expensive.
Yep and turbo is toast as well. luckily the labor rate in his area is closer to $100 per hour
Post by: Miles on June 22, 2016, 11:16:45 AM
With all the mods these days and people doing there own performance stuff, I just didn't want someone else's problem... Might as well spend a little more and know what you're getting.
Post by: sirmissalot on June 22, 2016, 12:10:41 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 22, 2016, 01:17:40 PM
I wouldnt do that until it needs to be done. The more important first task is to determine what shape the oil cooler is in first by running a simple test with a ScanGuage II (or similar diagnostic tool). I'd consider that a pre-purchase requirement. So much easy-to-find, good info out on the web on this issue and testing procedure.
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
No idea. We emptied the fleet completely by 2008 when we switched to Duramax's. We drive mainly from Nodak to California and everywhere in between pulling a 12-14K trailer every mile. Guys get in the trucks, drive them 5,000 miles and get the oil changed religiously. Our Superintendents are responsible to keep the basic maintenance done on the road. In 2006 I had three oil coolers blow in one week. I remember it well. working at Colstrip, MT one went down, Short Mountain Landfill another went down and the third was in Sparks, NV. The one in Montana had to get shipped to Missoula for repair(common to diesels in Montana, few qualified guys at local shops and dealers can work on them for some reason).
New DEF running Chevy's have been interesting. We sent one with just over 100K miles to the junk yard after the main crank bearing evaporated recently.
Owner won't buy any Dodges after having a few in the 1990's. He pays the bills so, his choice there...
Post by: mud on June 22, 2016, 01:27:34 PM
I was told that if you drive it hard, it eliminates "all" potential problems. That must be somewhat true as I drive the hell out of it.
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 02:48:51 PM
I have an 05 I picked up with 70k. Now has 130k. It's such a pile of crap, I had to replace the FICM for $300 once.
I was told that if you drive it hard, it eliminates "all" potential problems. That must be somewhat true as I drive the hell out of it.
$300 is dirt cheap for a FICM.
Post by: MADMAX on June 22, 2016, 02:58:47 PM
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 03:27:49 PM
I dont think he could find the sarcasm imogi
I was in the middle. Wasn't sure where he was at.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 22, 2016, 03:42:59 PM
Post by: Special T on June 22, 2016, 04:26:01 PM
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Post by: notsosneaky on June 22, 2016, 04:57:45 PM
A bypass oil filter with amsoil and a egr cooler delete made the truck fantastic.
Post by: jackelope on June 22, 2016, 05:12:02 PM
Love my 2005 6.0
A bypass oil filter with amsoil and a egr cooler delete made the truck fantastic.
You still have oil coolers and FICM's to fail...maybe some ball joints and/or a turbo. That's the problem with those trucks. Lots of stuff to go wrong.
Post by: Skillet on June 23, 2016, 03:08:09 AM
Since it appears D-Rock has bailed on the 6.0 purchase, I suppose the point is moot. Hoping the fear-mongering of 6.0 starts to subside a bit soon when people who are willingly engaged with the maintenance and monitoring responsobilities start buying these trucks up with a deep discount.
Post by: Dick in the Dirt on June 23, 2016, 06:01:46 AM
Yup my six gets regular service,never let me down.Also motorcraft filters a must.
:yeah:
Happy, what were the ECT/EOT deltas when the oil coolers blew in your trucks?
99% of the people buying these trucks don't have the slightest clue what that even means, nevermind that it's something that they should be aware of.
Really, 90% of them wouldn't even care if they did know. Most folks want to know their truck starts and stops. Beyond that, that's what shops are for.
Fix it when it breaks. It may not be logical, but I think it's true based on being surrounded by it 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week.
:twocents:
Post by: Special T on June 23, 2016, 10:10:08 AM
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Post by: jackelope on June 23, 2016, 10:15:30 AM
Since low milage 6liter are rare it not really crazy to steer clear of them. Nearly every one of the issues you guys talk about stem from the poor egr, oil cooler filter setup. If ford had done that right from the start the 6 liter would likely make a decent motor.I'd buy one if I was looking and found a nice one with all the delete stuff done, if it had all the billetproof stuff already in it, or if I had $5k or so to get all the upgrades done. I don't care about tuners and performance upgrades...just reliability upgrades would be all I'm concerned with. Some go hand in hand I guess. I also don't think this is something a shadetree mechanic should be doing on his own with the help of youtube. 9 out of 10 average guys who attempted it wouldn't be able to pull it off if you ask me...myself included.
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Post by: Special T on June 23, 2016, 10:26:54 AM
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Post by: baker5150 on June 23, 2016, 10:42:22 AM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
I thought the F550 came with a Cummins? Or is that an option?
Which Ford motors of the 4 construction company trucks: 6.0 & 6.4 or are they newer 6.7?
All of the above.
I misread. There's 4 trucks here that a company owns. 2 of them are getting multi-thousand dollar repairs.
One is a 6.7 that the turbo came apart on, grenaded. Metal/shrapnel throughout. It has 120K miles on it. The truck is a F550 and it weighs 20k pounds give or take a little.
The other is a 6.7 that is getting an EGR cooler because it's plugged and it also has fault codes for a DEF/Reductant heater circuit issue. We're waiting for authorization to drop the fuel tank to inspect a harness connector that can only be accessed by removing the fuel tank. The EGR cooler will run about $1k, and we're not sure where the other fault will end up. I'm seeking labor time of 3.5 hours at this time, and parts TBD once we find the problem. The labor may or may not increase, depending on what we find. That repair will likely run at least $2k total.
Post by: mud on June 23, 2016, 11:25:54 AM
I dont think he could find the sarcasm imogi
I was in the middle. Wasn't sure where he was at.
Sorry all. I will work on my emoji use. It was 1/2 sarcasm. I expect my truck to implode any day based on what everyone's told me on the internet.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 23, 2016, 02:23:46 PM
I think the bullt proof kit can be done by most people who are mechanically inclined. That doesnt include the stud kit and gasket. im not so convinced that if ford hadnt designed a better system like Bullet proof we would be having a very different discussion about the motor.
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When you are running a fleet of vehicles you can't go doing a bunch of aftermarket add-ons either- Easy fix or not, they were junk off the lot. For a company who turns over 10-12 trucks every two years, only getting to 150K miles and having major break downs when you are barely into your second year puts a hurt on the budget. Some went down in the 70K range.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 23, 2016, 02:25:27 PM
it makes the 6.0L a piece of doo-doo.
Post by: jackelope on June 23, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
The old phrase K.I.S.S. Why mess with the headache. Buy a cummins or even a duramax and stay away from the newer stuff-its not better. They all have issues but cummins will be the cheapest and most reliable period... I had 2001 7.3 and I loved it however it wasn't cheap. Repairs killed me. My Cummins has been rock solid and cheap rare repairs. Ford list of repairs were-Injectors, glow plugs, relays, sensors, 2 auto trans. U joints, Fuel system flush and such. Valve cover inj. harness. PCM. $$$$$ Cummins- Ball joints, u joints, Steering box, pitman. Brake calipers. The truck falls apart around the engine with Dodge. 6.0 is great engine in its 220-260hp form from international. Ford pumped it up beyond design(head studs) and threw crappy emmisions on it thus ruined it. Stay away or you likely will regret it.
My experience with this sort of thing is as follows....
I had ~10 years at a Dodge dealership. I almost never sold multi-thousand dollar engine repair work to Cummins customers. An injection pump here and there, maybe some injectors here and there. The big gravy tickets there on those trucks was front end work, but it was never $5k.
I now have ~3.5 years with Ford. I have a $3-5k engine related repair going on a truck or multiple trucks pretty much every day I'm here. When I don't have one here, I'm just waiting for one of my construction company fleets to call with a truck down. It's always been bizarre to me why so many commercial businesses love Ford trucks. The only thing I can think of might be the fleet incentives to buy multiple white trucks at a time. I have currently 4 Construction company trucks(same company owns all 4) in my shop, 2 of which are significant diesel engine repairs.
It's been too long since I worked at the Chevy dealership and that was almost before the D-max trucks came out. All the diesel work we did there was the old 6.5TDI engines. No comment there.
I thought the F550 came with a Cummins? Or is that an option?
Which Ford motors of the 4 construction company trucks: 6.0 & 6.4 or are they newer 6.7?
All of the above.
I misread. There's 4 trucks here that a company owns. 2 of them are getting multi-thousand dollar repairs.
One is a 6.7 that the turbo came apart on, grenaded. Metal/shrapnel throughout. It has 120K miles on it. The truck is a F550 and it weighs 20k pounds give or take a little.
The other is a 6.7 that is getting an EGR cooler because it's plugged and it also has fault codes for a DEF/Reductant heater circuit issue. We're waiting for authorization to drop the fuel tank to inspect a harness connector that can only be accessed by removing the fuel tank. The EGR cooler will run about $1k, and we're not sure where the other fault will end up. I'm seeking labor time of 3.5 hours at this time, and parts TBD once we find the problem. The labor may or may not increase, depending on what we find. That repair will likely run at least $2k total.
F550 is still the 6.7
F650 goes to Cummins, Allison trans, air brakes, etc.
I know this because we're not able to work on anything bigger than a 550 because that's where the air brakes start.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 23, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
Happy the chevy blew the motor because DEF likely found its way into the fuel tank. I know a guy that did that with a brand new Kenworth.... ooops
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Well, it didn't "blow" it just made the entire truck shake and a real loud knocking noise if you ran it. I think the bearing went and crank broke into two pieces but, it still would start with a little knocking... :chuckle:
Post by: Smokepole on June 23, 2016, 04:04:10 PM
Post by: Mudman on July 03, 2016, 02:31:11 PM
Post by: hunthard on July 07, 2016, 11:27:00 AM
you sound like the right guy to ask so here goes, I have an 01 F350 7.3, sometimes when I put it in reverse the over drive light on the gear shift flashes, when it does this I have very little power, if I shut the truck off and restart it it usually goes away, there is no warning when this happens it just does, any advice? thanks.
Post by: Mudman on July 07, 2016, 11:36:07 AM
Post by: hunthard on July 07, 2016, 12:18:18 PM
Post by: Mudman on July 07, 2016, 12:48:47 PM
Post by: iusmc2002 on July 07, 2016, 01:07:19 PM
We bought a 2004 Excursion with the 6.0L in 2014 with 145k miles on it. 2 weeks into it, we had an injector blow up. When the dealership got that fixed, they test drove it and while driving it, lost the FICM, cam position sensor and crank position sensor and had to have it towed back to the dealership for repairs. While driving it home, the engine started running very, very poorly, so we had it towed back in. The wrong injector was put into the engine and essentially blew up. Got that fixed.
In December of 2015 it quit running while we were on the road, no acceleration and then died and wouldn't start. Had it towed to the dealership and was told the high pressure oil pump wasn't working, and that was going to be $2400 to fix. Since they were going to be really digging into the motor to fix it, I asked for a quote to replace the EGR and oil cooler. $3700.
I called a local diesel shop and got a quote of $3200 for all that work and so had it towed there. They called after they looked at it and said it wasn't the high pressure pump, it was the low pressure pump, and that could end up being much, much cheaper, did they have permission to dig into that? Gave them permission and they called back and said "Uh, we aren't going any further until you come down and talk to us and look at what we're seeing." Ended up they found some significant wear and damage inside the low pressure pump, with a chunk of metal they couldn't explain, jammed into it. Our options at that point were a new crate motor from Ford, with installation, for about $18k or a new block, with installation for about $15k or they could try and rebuild it for about $11-12k. They said "try" because without tearing into the engine and knowing how much other damage was done inside, they weren't overly confident of how good of shape the rest of the engine was in. We took a couple weeks to decide because this money was coming out of our house-building fund.
Apparently, they got bored while waiting for us to decide, and disassembled the entire engine, free of charge. They found no other damage inside the engine, other than a valve cover that had been siliconed on because a bolt had broken off, and under that valve cover was the bolt in the picture. It looks like someone stripped the Allen head out, and then used a chisel to knock the bolt loose, and the chunk of metal in the low pressure pump appeared to match the metal from that oil stand pipe bolt.
With the deletes, tuner, upgraded parts and head studs, we were out $12k. We then had to spend another $3500 on front end work, but that is to be expected in a diesel rig with 194k miles on it. Hopefully, we will have a few years before the tranny dies.
Post by: Mudman on July 07, 2016, 01:29:43 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 07, 2016, 08:48:59 PM
Post by: iusmc2002 on July 07, 2016, 10:32:40 PM
I have a late 2002 7.3. 240k. Just had a few exhaust leaks done. Had new rancho 9000's put on the front with bfg km2's 255's. I've built the front with upgraded knuckles and greasable upper and lowers. It was actually an easy job. Drivelines NW and had the ball joints pressed in at model garage in fall city. Only charged me $75. Total front end rebuild with new everything to the rotors was under $2500.
We had most of that done, plus having the interior axle seals and the Lock/Free 4wd shifter thingys replaced
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 08, 2016, 11:09:36 AM