Post by: time2hunt on March 30, 2018, 11:45:01 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: trophyhunt on March 30, 2018, 12:37:54 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 30, 2018, 12:51:04 PM
Post by: time2hunt on March 30, 2018, 01:03:35 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 30, 2018, 01:59:53 PM
Post by: actionshooter on March 30, 2018, 04:32:21 PM
The 1st year I hunted it, there were 250 people, according to a warden I spoke too back in October, about 675 permits were purchased for the late season in 2017. I quit going a couple of years ago for this reason, what I was seeing was ridiculous.....it was a western washington "shoot the 1st legal buck" mentality with small cities on the airstrips.
If I never get to hunt there again, this is the right thing....
Post by: actionshooter on March 30, 2018, 05:11:27 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on March 30, 2018, 05:53:09 PM
I was hoping they would go to a limited quota just for the trophy potential but never dreamed the cut would be this drastic. I'm all for residents having more tags but this new setup is awful similar to region G now. Would love to see it become a true draw tag in the future, what a dream hunt that could be
Post by: Hot Lunch on March 30, 2018, 06:46:11 PM
Post by: BOOMER on March 30, 2018, 09:32:48 PM
Post by: actionshooter on March 30, 2018, 10:25:29 PM
Another unit ruined by the internet
This is fact.....
Post by: trophyhunt on March 30, 2018, 10:51:33 PM
Another unit ruined by the internet:yeah: unfortunately , many units are ruined by the net.
Post by: Hot Lunch on March 30, 2018, 10:53:51 PM
Post by: MarkTrail on March 30, 2018, 11:09:30 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on March 31, 2018, 07:24:47 AM
Post by: MarkTrail on March 31, 2018, 07:34:52 AM
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 07:43:42 AM
Don't be fooled that hunters pushed this change...hunters and air taxi services DID NOT push for this, as I know dozens of hunters who sent letters to not have this kind of cut...it was driven by the Idaho Outfitters and Guide's Association...they WILL NOT suffer from this as they noted that in the past 5 years the most deer hunters that hunted with a guide was 99...so IDFG allotted them 99 outfitter tags above and beyond the NR cap. But on average just over 500 NR hunted this unit so they capped the NR tags at 10% and are only allowing 51 tags NR tags. Even IDFG warned the Guides that if the NR hunters do not return to Idaho to hunt other regions that this will be looked at again in the near future as each NR hunter is worth on average $500 to IDFG and a 450 hunter hit x $500 = $225,000 out of their budget (just for Unit 27...add in the cuts to 26 and 20A, as well as 10A) which is a lot of money to IDFG. Add in all of the revenue lost to Air Taxi's, and local communities (I know we stay at least 2 nights at a hotel, plus food, gas, and buy our groceries once we get to McCall...I grew up in a small tourist town and know that it means more to them to spend my money when I get there than to buy my food at my local grocery store).
As far as the hunting goes...no biologist agreed with the cap, as the carrying capacity is just fine in the Wilderness areas...most of the hunters above are complaining because of THEIR expectations, not the ecosystems. Wolves get hunted hard by all of those NR hunters, with a lot of wolves taken or chased out of the area allowing the mule deer to breed. It is an 18 day season, and the Frank Church is the largest wilderness area in the lower 48 states...500 deer taken out of Unit 27 is nothing and even then, it's not 100% success as some hunters don't care to shoot small bucks...but just because YOU don't want to shoot a small buck doesn't give you the right to limit other hunters...this is the main problem with hunters today...they (YOU) expect everyone to conform to your ideals...I like sitting in camp and spotting 10-15 bucks even if they are 2 to 4 year olds. I like going out in my last day of the hunt, after passing on bucks all week and then filling my freezer...which I find ironic that most hunters in WA just try and find a legal buck, yet when we go to Idaho all of a sudden a "real hunter" only shoots a 180+ inch buck...give me a break. The 500 NR hunters contribute way more to the local economies in ID, as well as the deer can handle the harvest, so why should it be limited?...because Guides were pissed that a NR can and have been going in there and killing the same deer that the Guide charges a NR $5000 to hunt. I've had those guides ride by me on their horses with clients while I was packing out a nice buck and the look on the clients face said it all..."why am I paying this guide so much money and that guy gets to kill that buck instead of me".
WE ALL SHOULD BE UPSET AS WE JUST LOST A HUNTING SEASON...last time I checked the Frank Church is PUBLIC NATIONAL FOREST...I have just as much of a right to hunt there as the next guy, but we all get stuck on this idea of "I want to hunt alone...it's not fair someone else found MY spot" and are apparently willing to give up our hunting spots with an attitude, "Well, if someone else is going to hunt here then I'd rather nobody can"...and for what it's worth, where I fly into (same spot as Hirshey, fyi), I can hike to an area and hunt all day without seeing another person...so, I don't care if there is 200 camps (fyi, there isn't as that would be more than the entire hunter count for Unit 27 at 4 hunters per camp on average) at the runway...nobody is near my spike camp...
Grade
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 08:18:18 AM
Delete the plane and let hunters hunt.
In more accessible units I'm all for limiting the hunter pressure by making it a draw for residents and nonresidents alike.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 02, 2018, 08:25:11 AM
Are these tags going to be in the draw category now or first come first serve.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 08:28:17 AM
I'm all against limiting my privilege to hunt but allow others who can afford a guide to hunt the same place...If a hunter can spend $5000 they can hunt the same public land every year that I now might draw a tag for once in 10 years if lucky...it's all about $$$ and controlling the public lands...
Grade
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 08:29:08 AM
Grade
Post by: lord grizzly on April 02, 2018, 08:44:26 AM
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 08:57:05 AM
2MANY...I'm gonna take a guess that you've never been in Unit 27...as a plane ride to the airstrip is just like a truck drive to the trailhead...there is no "easy" access in the Frank Church.
Well you would be wrong.
I know all too well the effort it takes to pack into the frank although I choose to use stock.
I also have seen the burden that is lifted when the plane flys in and drops off folks with physical limitations. lol
As far as I'm concerned if you can't clear the trails with a chain saw then the planes should get the boot as well.
I'm not a fan of the tail draggers.
CHEERS.
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 09:13:29 AM
remember this is only NON RESIDENTS were talking about limiting. I say great job F&G. a resident of there own state should have privileges a NON RESIDENT shouldn't. going to make this hunt better for sure :tup:
All the more reason for everyone to move to Idaho!!!!
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 09:17:40 AM
Even if your "not a fan" you shouldn't limit other's that are a fan...that's the slippery slope towards socialism..."I'll tell you how to live...they way I want you too..."
Grade
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 09:33:39 AM
Hunters need to stick together...Non-Residents, Residents, archery, modern, muzzy's...we are more likely to protect our heritage if we do this...but instead we tear each other apart based on personal agenda...I don't have $5000 to hunt each year, and I'm guessing most of us on here don't.
Slipper slope...just sayin.
Grade
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 09:39:33 AM
I get that.
However the population is growing and the places our animals call home are shrinking.
My solution is to limit the ease of access to these wild places.
Lock the gates at the asphalt..............I really don't care.
Man is far too numerous and far too efficient these days.
Somethings gotta give.
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 09:45:23 AM
How will they now be effected????
IMHO it will be just like WA State's steelhead problem.
Shut down plants on the big rivers and the little rivers are toast.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 09:49:53 AM
We have to be careful of special interest groups controlling the masses...even in the hunting world.
Grade
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 10:02:38 AM
IDFG will eventually screw up the state of Idaho as their population base grows.
IMHO the state governments sleep in 4 days of the week and only get up on the 5th to cash their paycheck.
Is it fair that you need to apply for a special use permit to use a chainsaw???
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 10:18:10 AM
I think this post is to the point of an Unit 27 late tag...nothing more to see here...
Grade
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 10:50:29 AM
I've cut hundreds of logs out of the trails in both the Selway and the Frank.
No chain saw just the old crosscut.
Firewood?
I would hate to see a non native tree species introduced to the wilderness.
The BLM has and is currently spending thousands the last couple years cutting down trees that are not native to the sage brush areas. Not sure if its pines or doug fir but I'm sure of one thing...........................
.........They cover them with black visqueen that has blown every where and of course they don't go clean up their mess. The stuff is everywhere.
Perhaps us tax payers should pick it up?
Driven down the Salmon river during steelhead season lately????
Sanicans on almost every corner.
It's pathetic what our wild places are becoming and it's all from over use.
People want it now and easy.
They don't care about the next generation.
Just like most of the ranchers say in Idaho, "California's, Oregon's, and Washington's right will soon be Idaho's left."
Like most things in life they got it figured out.
Limit easy access in 27 and the tag/harvest deal will take care of itself.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 02, 2018, 10:54:28 AM
remember this is only NON RESIDENTS were talking about limiting. I say great job F&G. a resident of there own state should have privileges a NON RESIDENT shouldn't. going to make this hunt better for sure :tup:
All the more reason for everyone to move to Idaho!!!!
there's no jobs here
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 10:57:53 AM
The savings in license fees will feed a family.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2018, 01:28:52 PM
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 02:14:11 PM
Grade
Post by: 2MANY on April 02, 2018, 02:16:38 PM
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 02:43:12 PM
https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/commission/march_2018_agenda_16_unlimited_controlled_hunts_rev_0.pdf
Grade
Post by: idaho guy on April 02, 2018, 04:45:15 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2018, 07:50:29 PM
Post by: actionshooter on April 02, 2018, 08:19:35 PM
So let me get this right, the above comments are all complaining about the internet ruining Unit 27 yet Hirshey's post on her Idaho hunt goes to a dozen pages or more and views in the hundred with "wow's" and "thank you's", talk about hypocritical!...the airstrips are not "little cities" and there is a lot of wilderness hunts in Unit 27 when it was unlimited, but most hunters (guessing the ones who complained above) expect to walk a 100 yards and see dozens of bucks...well, I have been hunting Unit 27 since 1991 and some of the leanest years were 95 and 96 and especially 97 after the back to back winters of the previous years...in 2014, 2016 (I skipped 2015) the hunting was incredible, probably the best I have ever seen it...and last year the deer suffered from the winter (not the hunters) but the elk hunting was crazy...saw over 200 in 2 days, and killed a 5x5.
Don't be fooled that hunters pushed this change...hunters and air taxi services DID NOT push for this, as I know dozens of hunters who sent letters to not have this kind of cut...it was driven by the Idaho Outfitters and Guide's Association...they WILL NOT suffer from this as they noted that in the past 5 years the most deer hunters that hunted with a guide was 99...so IDFG allotted them 99 outfitter tags above and beyond the NR cap. But on average just over 500 NR hunted this unit so they capped the NR tags at 10% and are only allowing 51 tags NR tags. Even IDFG warned the Guides that if the NR hunters do not return to Idaho to hunt other regions that this will be looked at again in the near future as each NR hunter is worth on average $500 to IDFG and a 450 hunter hit x $500 = $225,000 out of their budget (just for Unit 27...add in the cuts to 26 and 20A, as well as 10A) which is a lot of money to IDFG. Add in all of the revenue lost to Air Taxi's, and local communities (I know we stay at least 2 nights at a hotel, plus food, gas, and buy our groceries once we get to McCall...I grew up in a small tourist town and know that it means more to them to spend my money when I get there than to buy my food at my local grocery store).
As far as the hunting goes...no biologist agreed with the cap, as the carrying capacity is just fine in the Wilderness areas...most of the hunters above are complaining because of THEIR expectations, not the ecosystems. Wolves get hunted hard by all of those NR hunters, with a lot of wolves taken or chased out of the area allowing the mule deer to breed. It is an 18 day season, and the Frank Church is the largest wilderness area in the lower 48 states...500 deer taken out of Unit 27 is nothing and even then, it's not 100% success as some hunters don't care to shoot small bucks...but just because YOU don't want to shoot a small buck doesn't give you the right to limit other hunters...this is the main problem with hunters today...they (YOU) expect everyone to conform to your ideals...I like sitting in camp and spotting 10-15 bucks even if they are 2 to 4 year olds. I like going out in my last day of the hunt, after passing on bucks all week and then filling my freezer...which I find ironic that most hunters in WA just try and find a legal buck, yet when we go to Idaho all of a sudden a "real hunter" only shoots a 180+ inch buck...give me a break. The 500 NR hunters contribute way more to the local economies in ID, as well as the deer can handle the harvest, so why should it be limited?...because Guides were pissed that a NR can and have been going in there and killing the same deer that the Guide charges a NR $5000 to hunt. I've had those guides ride by me on their horses with clients while I was packing out a nice buck and the look on the clients face said it all..."why am I paying this guide so much money and that guy gets to kill that buck instead of me".
WE ALL SHOULD BE UPSET AS WE JUST LOST A HUNTING SEASON...last time I checked the Frank Church is PUBLIC NATIONAL FOREST...I have just as much of a right to hunt there as the next guy, but we all get stuck on this idea of "I want to hunt alone...it's not fair someone else found MY spot" and are apparently willing to give up our hunting spots with an attitude, "Well, if someone else is going to hunt here then I'd rather nobody can"...and for what it's worth, where I fly into (same spot as Hirshey, fyi), I can hike to an area and hunt all day without seeing another person...so, I don't care if there is 200 camps (fyi, there isn't as that would be more than the entire hunter count for Unit 27 at 4 hunters per camp on average) at the runway...nobody is near my spike camp...
Grade
Some of your little rant I actually agree with...........some you are way off.
For starters I didn't see where the guides were untouched.... that's complete BS, that's totally serving the special interest. Can you say Wyoming?
Another one is, while I completely think a cut was needed, 10% is way to low, I personally would have been good with 50%
It is going to be hard on the local economy, This is going to hurt not only (grumpy) George, but the other pilots like Ray, Russ and Walt (I have been there once or twice, before you ask) along w/ everyone else, those towns count on hunting season.....that completely sucks.
Yes you can get away from the crowds spiking out, and we do, but how can you say the airstrips aren't overcrowded?? If you were there in the 90s, you should remember what it was like...... In fact 3 years ago, the airstrip you camp on had 18 tents at one time, with 2-8 people in each camp. thats a "little city". That was the last year I hunted that strip, If thats your normal spot, I can gurantee we would probably recognize each other :)
I'll be the first to admit that my draw to this area was the "wilderness experience" and with the growing number of hunters, that goes out the window.
I think the way it was with unlimited tags and what they have they are doing in 2018 are the two extremes..... it needs to be somewhere in the middle.
Post by: actionshooter on April 02, 2018, 08:23:02 PM
My hunting partner Dioni was at every single meeting related to this decision. The air services AND guides were screaming to NOT put a cap on this hunt. Guides were hauling in group after group and making good money doing it with little effort. This was driven by the citizens of Idaho who were tired of what the NR masses were doing to the unit.That doesn't surprise me at all, I have heard that before from a buddy in Salmon.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 02, 2018, 08:52:24 PM
Obviously you've hunted in there since you know the same pilots I do. 500+ hunters for the entire unit 27 is nothing for the size of that unit. IDFG could easily separated out the unit, which they already do for sheep, and then allowed XXX amount of tags for each sub-unit to keep any one certain airstrip from over crowding...but even though I'm not a fan of big groups, like the group of 14 guys in one camp, the deer numbers have never been affected by hunting pressure, it's too big of a unit and too short of a season. For example, I've never hunted the last week...and as far as comparing years...1991 vs 2017 all had about the same number of camps (I do admit in the 1990's there wasn't the fad of backcountry hunting...and even more guys hunted closer to the airstrip as hardly anyone spiked out back then).
My bingest concern is that this change has nothing to do with game management and Idaho isn't/wasn't Wyoming...it sucks they are heading that way, especially since it has nothing to do with game management.
Grade
Post by: actionshooter on April 02, 2018, 09:20:05 PM
Action...I'm sure we know each other...first, the guides were untouched...the MOST clients they had in the last 5 years was 99 and so, IDFG alloted them 99 tags above and beyond the 51 NR special Permit tags, so the guides actually got an increase in tags over last year's total client patrons.I agree, the problem is there are basically 4 major airstrips that host the majority of those people. I know when I started hunting there, the hunter numbers were in the 250 range for the whole unit......now 650+ (or so) for 2017, spread out over such a limited access area is what is creating the problem.
500+ hunters for the entire unit 27 is nothing for the size of that unit.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 03, 2018, 05:36:32 AM
My hunting partner Dioni was at every single meeting related to this decision. The air services AND guides were screaming to NOT put a cap on this hunt. Guides were hauling in group after group and making good money doing it with little effort. This was driven by the citizens of Idaho who were tired of what the NR masses were doing to the unit.
I tend to believe the guides were not for this change. These guys don’t just make money on these 99 tags. I have to imagine a lot of these guys make a killing on flying in the diy’rs. That number just went down a bunch. I still think it’s great. One of reasons residents participation on this hunt is low is the crazy online popularity for out of staters. Buddy of mine owns his own plane and doesn’t hunt it. May have a talk with him now and head in there
Probably me and everyone else though. Oh well it least it will all be Idaho guys :tup: :chuckle:
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 03, 2018, 06:25:02 AM
I think the adding of outfitter tags is a pipe dream. Guys that hunt the church don't want to or cant afford to hire a guide. SO what happens to the left over outfitter tags. Sold over the counter in August? Or given to non drawn applicants.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 03, 2018, 07:03:38 AM
Per IDFG the MOST hunters in Unit 27 (this is both NR and Resident) was 598...never 650+ as you state.
There are 26 active airstrip in the Frank Church, with 8 public ones that are the most "popular" in Unit 27...plus an additional 6 private ones in Unit 27 that outfitters use (an example is Pistol Creek...and Pistol Creek Outfitters). So that's actually 14 airstrips, not 4 and hunters also use trailheads not just airstrips.
The IDFG Commission made this decision against the recommendation of IDFG (biologist included)...keep in mind IDFG Commission is much like the WDFW Commission with the exception that the IDFG Commission gave themselves special powers in 2017 to allow them to make rules such as these...whereas the WDFW Commission is meant to be a board of citizens as an oversight to the Director. The Agenda for the IDFG ruling on this was titled: Unlimited Controlled Hunt Non-Resident Tag Numbers, Outfitter Allocation (Action).
And as far as history of groups...the airstrips have always been popular, even back in 1991 when I first went in there, the place I flew into had camps along the runway, the turn around, and down by the river, just as many back then as today. In 1995 I spent 21 days in there, my summer job of being a USFS Initial Attack Firefighter ended so I flew in and bummed around for 3 weeks and hunted...I saw way more deer and elk recently than I did in 95 (94 was the start of a bad winter for 3 years straight) and wolves were introduced in 1995 at this very airstrip, the first wolves to be transplanted in Idaho. The wolves wreaked havoc when we couldn't hunt them, even came down towards the airstrip (more than once tracks were seen going between tents). But once the wolves could be hunted they stayed away, in fact, the hunting has become absolutely better. The mule deer can breed without wolves eating and chasing them (using even more energy which eventually kills the mature bucks as they can't recover in time before winter) and the elk numbers are way up to where they were pre-wolf (or close to it...still now cow tags like before, but getting a bull is not that hard like it used to be when wolves were off limits).
And lastly, think about this, everyone on here says how great the hunting will be...though only 51 NR get to hunt it now (and hunters come from all across the country...I met a few guys from Wisconsin and NY in there that did DIY trips). What about the the Bee Hive Affect. Essentially we are taking man out of the area during the mule deer breeding time, allowing the wolves to have free range and once again wreak havoc during the most crucial time of the year for the deer. Without keeping the wolves away we will lose more mule deer and the big bucks suffer the most. There have been several studies done and mature mule deer bucks hurt the worst during winter as their fat reserves are depleted during the rut and they can't recover before winter, add in unchecked wolves, and there will be less mature bucks some spring...the wolves will spread, but the core packs will remain in the Frank Church, breeding and repopulating other areas where wolves are being taken out. Kind of like a beehive...you can kill the bees at the picnic table but if you don't kill the hive more bees will just show up at the picnic table...if man isn't in there to keep the wolves away from the breeding mule deer, less will get bred and the mature bucks will be run ragged before winter. At least now, the mere presence of man keeps the wolves away and anyone who has flown into the Frank during the late hunt has watched dozens of rutting mule deer, which don't care when you walk by them...heck, we had a deer come INTO our tent two years ago looking for our apples.
This is simply a take-away of a hunt and since this is Hunt WA (not hey, I live in Idaho ha ha guys...) we all should be concerned over losing yet another hunt to the agenda of a game commission that is being used as a ploy by businesses...oh, and for the Idaho guy who said that the outfitters aren't getting rich on these tags...no outfitter gets rich, but they argued and won their argument that they needed their own tags for this unit, and the commission gave them more tags than they even had clients for last year...the outfitters won.
Grade
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 03, 2018, 07:11:00 AM
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/fish-and-game-seeks-comments-several-proposed-rule-changes
https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/commission/march_2018_agenda_16_unlimited_controlled_hunts_rev_0.pdf
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5300616.pdf
Grade
Post by: 2MANY on April 03, 2018, 09:38:26 AM
I'm also not a believer that introducing man into any eco system is a good thing over time.
The wild places should remain wild.
Post by: theleo on April 03, 2018, 10:16:33 AM
(most air strips are on private land or state land...none are on wilderness lands, and those that are managed by the FS are on national forest lands, not wilderness designations...and FYI, they use power tools in the Frank Church through a special use permit...they didn't put those bridges in place with hand tools).FYI that permit is FS employees, not private citizens. It also requires them to be out there actually maintaining trails which they hardly do any of, any more. Heck, I even got word this year to cut trails as part of a volunteer group (BCHA off shoot) I need to have class and field time to be certified by the FS to use a crosscut. I've also been part of bridge removals, re-deckings, and replacements (small bridge) that were all done with hand tools.
Post by: 2MANY on April 03, 2018, 10:39:30 AM
I know if it weren't for my father's efforts the last few years one of the main trails into the Craigs wouldn't be passable.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 03, 2018, 01:03:37 PM
Besides, all of that above regarding bridges and special use permits have nothing to do with the thread...it's about IDFG cutting NR tags to almost nothing based on false pretenses while the guides get above and beyond allotted tags...at least make it fair for everyone.
Grade
Post by: idaho guy on April 03, 2018, 02:16:37 PM
Action...here are the facts, just fyi.
Per IDFG the MOST hunters in Unit 27 (this is both NR and Resident) was 598...never 650+ as you state.
There are 26 active airstrip in the Frank Church, with 8 public ones that are the most "popular" in Unit 27...plus an additional 6 private ones in Unit 27 that outfitters use (an example is Pistol Creek...and Pistol Creek Outfitters). So that's actually 14 airstrips, not 4 and hunters also use trailheads not just airstrips.
The IDFG Commission made this decision against the recommendation of IDFG (biologist included)...keep in mind IDFG Commission is much like the WDFW Commission with the exception that the IDFG Commission gave themselves special powers in 2017 to allow them to make rules such as these...whereas the WDFW Commission is meant to be a board of citizens as an oversight to the Director. The Agenda for the IDFG ruling on this was titled: Unlimited Controlled Hunt Non-Resident Tag Numbers, Outfitter Allocation (Action).
And as far as history of groups...the airstrips have always been popular, even back in 1991 when I first went in there, the place I flew into had camps along the runway, the turn around, and down by the river, just as many back then as today. In 1995 I spent 21 days in there, my summer job of being a USFS Initial Attack Firefighter ended so I flew in and bummed around for 3 weeks and hunted...I saw way more deer and elk recently than I did in 95 (94 was the start of a bad winter for 3 years straight) and wolves were introduced in 1995 at this very airstrip, the first wolves to be transplanted in Idaho. The wolves wreaked havoc when we couldn't hunt them, even came down towards the airstrip (more than once tracks were seen going between tents). But once the wolves could be hunted they stayed away, in fact, the hunting has become absolutely better. The mule deer can breed without wolves eating and chasing them (using even more energy which eventually kills the mature bucks as they can't recover in time before winter) and the elk numbers are way up to where they were pre-wolf (or close to it...still now cow tags like before, but getting a bull is not that hard like it used to be when wolves were off limits).
And lastly, think about this, everyone on here says how great the hunting will be...though only 51 NR get to hunt it now (and hunters come from all across the country...I met a few guys from Wisconsin and NY in there that did DIY trips). What about the the Bee Hive Affect. Essentially we are taking man out of the area during the mule deer breeding time, allowing the wolves to have free range and once again wreak havoc during the most crucial time of the year for the deer. Without keeping the wolves away we will lose more mule deer and the big bucks suffer the most. There have been several studies done and mature mule deer bucks hurt the worst during winter as their fat reserves are depleted during the rut and they can't recover before winter, add in unchecked wolves, and there will be less mature bucks some spring...the wolves will spread, but the core packs will remain in the Frank Church, breeding and repopulating other areas where wolves are being taken out. Kind of like a beehive...you can kill the bees at the picnic table but if you don't kill the hive more bees will just show up at the picnic table...if man isn't in there to keep the wolves away from the breeding mule deer, less will get bred and the mature bucks will be run ragged before winter. At least now, the mere presence of man keeps the wolves away and anyone who has flown into the Frank during the late hunt has watched dozens of rutting mule deer, which don't care when you walk by them...heck, we had a deer come INTO our tent two years ago looking for our apples.
This is simply a take-away of a hunt and since this is Hunt WA (not hey, I live in Idaho ha ha guys...) we all should be concerned over losing yet another hunt to the agenda of a game commission that is being used as a ploy by businesses...oh, and for the Idaho guy who said that the outfitters aren't getting rich on these tags...no outfitter gets rich, but they argued and won their argument that they needed their own tags for this unit, and the commission gave them more tags than they even had clients for last year...the outfitters won.
Grade
Grade you can still hunt there just maybe not the late season. I don't want to come off as "ha ha I live in Idaho" either. If I did Im sorry. When an area has twice as many non resident hunters as residents I think that's a problem. With wolves, I want too know how many non resident deer hunters shot a wolf in the late deer season last ten years? I bet not very many. It would be great if hunters from anywhere would put half the effort into killing wolves as they do deer and elk but I doubt its happening up there during deer season. So I don't think your argument that non residents are controlling wolves holds any water. I could be totally wrong but would actually like to know how many as a percent kill wolves? I have seen a fair number of photos of big camps killing many deer and a lot were pretty young bucks. I think this move increases the age structure up their in a huge way in a few years. They did not take away your ability to hunt it just the timing. Almost any other western state you would have to draw a general tag just too hunt anywhere. That can take years, Idaho allows non residents to hunt over the counter most areas that's better than any western state I know of. Or at least any state that you would actually want to hunt in. I have also seen game rules/seasons change in a few years and one time a season was changed and went back to the original season exactly 1 year later. Idaho fish & game is doing the right thing here in my opinion
Post by: 2MANY on April 03, 2018, 02:34:32 PM
Post by: theleo on April 03, 2018, 02:49:18 PM
The bridges we're referring to in the Frank Church are steel cable bridges with welded trusses...definitely not put in by hand tools or carried there by horses...flown in via helicopter. Also, FS does give out Special Use Permits to private citizens, that's how guides can operate in the wilderness (commercial use permits) as well as we put a new roof on a backcountry cabin several years ago...using a helicopter and power tools, special permits are just that, a special permit to allow for a variance, regardless if its FS or private citizen.A commercial use permit does not exempt outfitters from the no motorized equipment section of the Wilderness Act and NR tags never have been about making things fair for everyone. NR tags are to exploit hunters who would rather hunt in another state rather than close to home. If you want the perks of being an Idaho resident, then become an Idaho resident.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 03, 2018, 05:41:26 PM
For the others that keep going off topic with special use permit and stock questions...and apparently I'm crying over spilled milk...look at my previous comments, my main concern is another hunt taken away from hunters that was not based on game management and hurts the local economy. I'll still go into the Frank Church if I want to, and elk hunt...it's sad that this hunt is being restricted like it is as it could lead to a new future of hunting restrictions...
I wish I could live back on Idaho...those were some of the best days of my life, but like everyone else, responsibilities have me living in a city that I don't care to live in but it pays the bills...maybe someday I'll get to return to Idaho (yes, I lived in Idaho...)
Grade
Oh, and Idaho guy...if you can talk your buddy into flying into unit 27 next year be sure he gets checked off to land at the airstrip...every pilot must pass a test and show profiency at the airstrip they intend to land at if it's one of the public airstrips. Just fyi, as at least 3 planes have crashed while I've been going there. If you want more info on where I hunt, I'd be happy to share, seriously, but pm me as I won't give up the info on the open internet... ;) I really am not mad, though some are trying to insight an argument, I'm just very disappointed in IDFG...hopefully it's just a short term decision.
Post by: actionshooter on April 03, 2018, 09:55:22 PM
Action...here are the facts, just fyi.Hey Grade, If your going to post the facts, Here is where I found mine....
Per IDFG the MOST hunters in Unit 27 (this is both NR and Resident) was 598...never 650+ as you state.
There are 26 active airstrip in the Frank Church, with 8 public ones that are the most "popular" in Unit 27...plus an additional 6 private ones in Unit 27 that outfitters use (an example is Pistol Creek...and Pistol Creek Outfitters). So that's actually 14 airstrips, not 4 and hunters also use trailheads not just airstrips.
The IDFG Commission made this decision against the recommendation of IDFG (biologist included)...keep in mind IDFG Commission is much like the WDFW Commission with the exception that the IDFG Commission gave themselves special powers in 2017 to allow them to make rules such as these...whereas the WDFW Commission is meant to be a board of citizens as an oversight to the Director. The Agenda for the IDFG ruling on this was titled: Unlimited Controlled Hunt Non-Resident Tag Numbers, Outfitter Allocation (Action).
And as far as history of groups...the airstrips have always been popular, even back in 1991 when I first went in there, the place I flew into had camps along the runway, the turn around, and down by the river, just as many back then as today. In 1995 I spent 21 days in there, my summer job of being a USFS Initial Attack Firefighter ended so I flew in and bummed around for 3 weeks and hunted...I saw way more deer and elk recently than I did in 95 (94 was the start of a bad winter for 3 years straight) and wolves were introduced in 1995 at this very airstrip, the first wolves to be transplanted in Idaho. The wolves wreaked havoc when we couldn't hunt them, even came down towards the airstrip (more than once tracks were seen going between tents). But once the wolves could be hunted they stayed away, in fact, the hunting has become absolutely better. The mule deer can breed without wolves eating and chasing them (using even more energy which eventually kills the mature bucks as they can't recover in time before winter) and the elk numbers are way up to where they were pre-wolf (or close to it...still now cow tags like before, but getting a bull is not that hard like it used to be when wolves were off limits).
And lastly, think about this, everyone on here says how great the hunting will be...though only 51 NR get to hunt it now (and hunters come from all across the country...I met a few guys from Wisconsin and NY in there that did DIY trips). What about the the Bee Hive Affect. Essentially we are taking man out of the area during the mule deer breeding time, allowing the wolves to have free range and once again wreak havoc during the most crucial time of the year for the deer. Without keeping the wolves away we will lose more mule deer and the big bucks suffer the most. There have been several studies done and mature mule deer bucks hurt the worst during winter as their fat reserves are depleted during the rut and they can't recover before winter, add in unchecked wolves, and there will be less mature bucks some spring...the wolves will spread, but the core packs will remain in the Frank Church, breeding and repopulating other areas where wolves are being taken out. Kind of like a beehive...you can kill the bees at the picnic table but if you don't kill the hive more bees will just show up at the picnic table...if man isn't in there to keep the wolves away from the breeding mule deer, less will get bred and the mature bucks will be run ragged before winter. At least now, the mere presence of man keeps the wolves away and anyone who has flown into the Frank during the late hunt has watched dozens of rutting mule deer, which don't care when you walk by them...heck, we had a deer come INTO our tent two years ago looking for our apples.
This is simply a take-away of a hunt and since this is Hunt WA (not hey, I live in Idaho ha ha guys...) we all should be concerned over losing yet another hunt to the agenda of a game commission that is being used as a ploy by businesses...oh, and for the Idaho guy who said that the outfitters aren't getting rich on these tags...no outfitter gets rich, but they argued and won their argument that they needed their own tags for this unit, and the commission gave them more tags than they even had clients for last year...the outfitters won.
Grade
Here is the link for 2017 drawing odds, https://idfg.idaho.gov/ifwis/huntplanner/odds/?_ga=2.121569419.2080621079.1522815274-1290673464.1522454103 , says 670 people drew the tag and I look at this because a lot of people don't turn their hunter reports.
We don't know how many actually went, or went with guides or bought a tag because they live in there.
You definitely skewed or misinterpreted what I was saying about the airstrip count, yes there are way more than 4, BUT we both know that the main 4-5 which are public see 80%+ of the hunters. And that's from the pilots and one of the Bios which I speak to every year.
I completely disagree about the number of people who are in there, from you dates your giving you have been going for 5-6 years longer than me (I have only missed a couple) and the people population has been steadily increasing, there have been years where I have spent an entire season in there with less than 5 other camps on one of the major public airstrips (long time ago). That is until the internet and a couple stories in hunting magazines changed things.
As far as the wolves, it was pretty ugly when I started going....the deer and elk were constantly spooked, the elk wouldn't talk and very seldom saw more than 4-5 together. The wolves didn't seem to bothered by the hunters, we had them in camp a couple times.... Without a doubt that has gotten better.
As far as the wolves being kept busy buy the hunters....maybe?, Could be something to that....I haven't seen a wolf during that season for a long time and only actually know of a couple killed in the last couple of years.
Not trying to pick a fight here.....just relaying what my experiences have been, (figured I have been in there close to 200 days through the years), and my opinion on what needed to happen, not completely happy with the amount they reduced it, but I still think the tags needed to be reduced.
Post by: actionshooter on April 03, 2018, 10:01:04 PM
https://idfg.idaho.gov/ifwis/huntplanner/odds/?_ga=2.121569419.2080621079.1522815274-1290673464.1522454103&yr=2000
Post by: Chad E. on April 04, 2018, 06:12:32 AM
I understand as a non resident that I'm not on the same playing field as residents but this particular cut feels very much in line with Wyoming's wilderness law or the continued cuts to small non resident quotes in G and H in the name of saving the herd while allowing unlimited resident general hunting. Call it what it is, a restriction on non residents for the sake of creating better resident opportunity.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 06:15:41 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 04, 2018, 06:19:56 AM
I like how that sounds even betterYour such a ''nonres'' racist!! :chuckle:
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 06:21:41 AM
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2018, 06:47:51 AM
I really am. Can you hardly blame me???Then why are you on a Washington hunting forum?
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Post by: Branden on April 04, 2018, 06:49:50 AM
The other thing that completely sucks is that they are handing out welfare to the outfitters. I’m sorry if the outfitters can’t make a living without welfare. Maybe they should get a job that pays their bills like the rest of us have to without getting a handout from the government.
I bet the quality starts increasing with such a drastic cut. And then more and more residents will start hunting it and pretty soon the drop in non res hunters will be replaced by res hunters and you will still have a crowding issue.
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2018, 06:54:45 AM
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Post by: trophyhunt on April 04, 2018, 07:03:18 AM
Next the resident hunters will be whining about the cost of their tags and licences going up. Due to lost revue from losing a ton of out of state hunters...:yeah:
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Post by: andrew_in_idaho on April 04, 2018, 07:08:42 AM
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Post by: theleo on April 04, 2018, 07:33:08 AM
To liberal to fit in with most of Idaho and doesn't have the bank roll to hang with the Sun Valley crowd more than likely.I really am. Can you hardly blame me???Then why are you on a Washington hunting forum?
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Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 09:19:11 AM
To liberal to fit in with most of Idaho and doesn't have the bank roll to hang with the Sun Valley crowd more than likely.I really am. Can you hardly blame me???Then why are you on a Washington hunting forum?
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pretty funny. lets compare checking accounts some time kiddo, you'll get quite fast. I was actually trying to remember why I was on here the other day since the only other forum I'm on is MM. then I remembered it was some silly thread about the governors tag bull you were all crying about. buddy of mine told me about the story since he was there. then the place was so damn entertaining compared to the MM Idaho forum I stuck around.
Post by: 2MANY on April 04, 2018, 12:20:17 PM
Sun Valley. lol
Post by: grade-creek-rd on April 04, 2018, 12:45:08 PM
I really do hope George survives the upcoming lean years...he's the only pilot I fly with...well, on the way out I'll fly with whoever picks me up! (been stuck in there 4 additional days one year, and that sucks as you have to stay at the runway in case a plane lands...fogged in at Cascade, beautiful in the backcountry...stuck in a lawn chair watching bucks through a spotting scope!)
Grade
Post by: theleo on April 04, 2018, 01:11:54 PM
Nah, I'm a smart @$$ to rich and poor alike. I'm Glad my humor was not lost on you though. I am envious that you do live in a state that manages it's big game hunting to the benefit of it's residents though. If/when cuts towards tags are made it's nice to see a state take it out on the NR hunters before the citizens of the state. Having grown up in Oregon and living in Washington I'm highly appreciative of how Idaho has managed its big game and that I can pay NR fees to go hunt there. If the state says an unlimited late season hunt is a problem, I'm glad to see it's the NR hunters that take the hit first.To liberal to fit in with most of Idaho and doesn't have the bank roll to hang with the Sun Valley crowd more than likely.I really am. Can you hardly blame me???Then why are you on a Washington hunting forum?
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pretty funny. lets compare checking accounts some time kiddo, you'll get quite fast.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 04, 2018, 01:47:11 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 04, 2018, 02:06:43 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 02:50:37 PM
Post by: 2MANY on April 04, 2018, 02:56:32 PM
Without all the non resident hunters The Unwed Mothers Foundation will see a marked decrease in donations.
Meanwhile unit 27 will see an increase in deer.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 04:35:33 PM
Post by: Chumstick on April 04, 2018, 05:31:15 PM
I was born and raised in WA, I shot my first deer above the Wenatchee River, and my first elk on the Colockum Pass over 30 years ago. I was there when we got our hounds and bait hunting taken away from us. I was there for the Dinkelman Ridge Fire that burned most of Unit 250 and the Entiat watershed. And the hunting season after when WDFW sold unlimited doe tags, with the plan of stopping the hunt when 400 got killed, but by the time it got stopped, there were over 2000 killed, and I was there for the years after when you couldn’t find a deer. I saw the effect it had, when everyone started blabbing in magazines about how great the Colockum was, and the hordes of people that showed up afterwards.
I moved away and since then I’ve lived and hunted in many western states, a few eastern states, and Alaska, before settling in Idaho 15 years ago (for the hunting). I have no idea what it’s like to hunt in WA these days, but from the amount of WA residents I see here during season, it can’t be that great.
Since I have lived here in Idaho, I have warned everyone that will listen, “don’t let Idaho become Washington, don’t let IDFG make the same blunders that WDFW did”. My friends and I, have kept ourselves involved and informed about IDFG rules, we write, call, and visit F&G commissioners consistently about issues and changes we’d like to see, and guess what?? They listen….
So, this leads us to the Middle Fork Units, there is a lot of mis-information in this thread, let me try to clear things up and provide some first-hand information.
First, make no mistake, this reduction in tags was a grass roots movement by Idaho residents who hunt units 26/27, who feel like the NRs disrespect the game, the wilderness, and the residents, not guides and outfitters. Now before you get offended, I’m not saying this is how all NRs behave, I’m not saying this is how you behave, nor anyone on this site. But enough NRs have, to make a lot of residents feel this way. I have personally seen many of these acts, and have firsthand information of others.
I’ve seen the little buck that I walked feet from, that lived off Twinkies all summer next to the rafter’s camp, get blasted from a few yards when he walked up to a hunter near the runway for a snack. The little buck that got killed walking down the airstrip as soon as the prop stopped spinning and the guy could get his gun uncased, and the high fives that followed. The guys that illegally shoot across the river which is a navigable waterway at deer on the other side. I’ve picked up loads of trash from the trails and hillsides and packed it out. I’ve heard what sounded like a battlefield when the snow pushed the herds down to the river. I know many will respond saying it’s not them, they’re respectful, etc. etc. But at this point it doesn’t matter. Too many have acted this way. The Frank is big, but the airstrips are indeed crowded, and IDFG can’t check them all so they become pseudo lawless wild west towns. And everyone sees when the conservation officer lands, so they all behave until he flies off.
It’s true there is a quite a few deer there, it’s true that the biologists say the herd numbers are at objective, the success rate is high, the percentage of 4 points is high, but a 4 point isn’t always a big deer, and the people who have hunted there since the 60’s will tell you, there is definitely a decrease in numbers, size, and age class.
The hopes of shooting a Big deer is why everyone goes there, so don’t try to tell me you travel all the way from another state, pay to have all your gear flown in, and pay for NR tags and end up paying thousands of dollars for a meat buck.
It’s true that less money will come into those small towns, that the backcountry pilots will take a hit, that less money will come in from NRs…. for that hunt maybe, but we have many other hunts that they can participate in.
The bottom line is this, IDFG is required to ‘Manage wildlife for the benefit of Idahoans”. Not for the benefit of NRs, and not for the commerce of towns and businesses. Idahoans may have to kick in some more money, which many of us will happily do, some will complain no doubt.
Spare me the anecdotal evidence you have about how much better the deer hunting is now. I don’t need your stories telling me about the all the big deer you’ve seen in the past few years. I’m there, I see what flies out. I see the pics on numerous websites and threads. Which leads us to one major problem. All the bragging and boasting on websites, the cute little articles that are wrote for numerous magazines, all to gain a little notoriety and show off, all has helped contribute to this overcrowding. I have been watching this site for years thinking, you better simmer down, you’re going to F*%% it up for everyone. Well it’s happened.
I get it, it sucks for you, you’ve could do this for many years and now it’s getting taken away, or at least reduced. But IDFG listened to its residents, and did what was right for them. Show me the opportunities like this that any of our neighboring states have provided for us, they don’t exist, we can’t even go in the wilderness without a guide in many places, and you charge us way more for tags and licenses, and good luck drawing a tag. Yes, this is public land, but it’s our game and we don’t get to come over there and hunt the Lake Chelan or the Wanaha just because we feel like it.
So, come over during the early season, put in for the draw, or hunt another over the counter open unit, you’re still welcome to. Or better yet, FIX YOUR OWN STATE, get involved, make a difference, don’t tell me they won’t listen, be persistent, it’ll take a while. It took us many years to make this happen. And if you want to have a say in what happens here in Idaho, you’re going to have to move here…. But please don’t….
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 05:52:04 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on April 04, 2018, 05:52:22 PM
Post by: ipkus on April 04, 2018, 06:02:08 PM
There are slobbish, non-ethical, egotistical non- resident hunters in every state in the country. There are also slobbish, non-ethical, egotistical resident hunters in every state in the country. Guess what one of the two state license plates Montana and Wyoming residents associate with slobbish, non-ethical, egotistical non-resident hunters? Idaho.
Get over yourself. You keep telling yourself you did this for the deer, you did it for you. Just make sure you are proudly telling all of your fellow residents biotching about their license fee increase that you caused it. I’m pretty sure you won’t be so loud then.
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem there, I’m saying going about trying to solve it this way is doing the anti’s job for them. Police your own, or we won’t exist.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 04, 2018, 06:02:56 PM
Post by: meatwhack on April 04, 2018, 06:20:46 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 04, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
Yes very good. The www is doing a great job of ruining hunting as we knew it... it’s amazing the info folks give out.you must be a brother from another mother, not sure I’ve ever disagreed with you!!
Post by: WA hunter14 on April 04, 2018, 06:33:14 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 06:56:12 PM
I don't see the whole idaho residents are going to freak out over tag price increase deal. Resident tags are so cheap even if the doubled it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Everyone I know would happily pay more to have less out of state hunters
I’d pay triple
Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2018, 07:08:27 PM
I don’t understand why people keep saying tag prices are going to increase because of these small changes that they’ve made. I’d guarantee that nonresident tags will still sell out so there will be no difference in the bottom line for F&G.If that's true then it will cause over crowding in other units. There are no free lunches. Either they lose hunters (revenue). Or they just shift them to another unit which just moves the problem they are trying to fix. I'm sure their fellow resident hunters in those units will love that.
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Post by: grundy53 on April 04, 2018, 07:11:57 PM
Well then I hope Idaho understands your eagerness to pay your share and tripples the resident prices.I don't see the whole idaho residents are going to freak out over tag price increase deal. Resident tags are so cheap even if the doubled it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Everyone I know would happily pay more to have less out of state hunters
I’d pay triple
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Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 07:18:57 PM
Well then I hope Idaho understands your eagerness to pay your share and tripples the resident prices.I don't see the whole idaho residents are going to freak out over tag price increase deal. Resident tags are so cheap even if the doubled it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Everyone I know would happily pay more to have less out of state hunters
I’d pay triple
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If that reduced the NR tags to a third of what they are now I bet I could win a governors race running on that platform
Post by: ipkus on April 04, 2018, 07:22:23 PM
If only hunters voted maybe. They don’t. You wouldn’t.
Post by: Chumstick on April 04, 2018, 07:30:51 PM
I don’t have a dog in this fight as I’ve never hunted 26 or 27, but I can tell this without a doubt;
There are slobbish, non-ethical, egotistical non- resident hunters in every state in the country. There are also slobbish, non-ethical, egotistical resident hunters in every state in the country. Guess what one of the two state license plates Montana and Wyoming residents associate with slobbish, non-ethical, egotistical non-resident hunters? Idaho.
Get over yourself. You keep telling yourself you did this for the deer, you did it for you. Just make sure you are proudly telling all of your fellow residents biotching about their license fee increase that you caused it. I’m pretty sure you won’t be so loud then.
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem there, I’m saying going about trying to solve it this way is doing the anti’s job for them. Police your own, or we won’t exist.
Listen man, we have plenty of D-bags here in Idaho too, and you can bet when I see them acting up they catch hell from me too. But I can tell you this, when I’m at an airstrip where there is 80 plus people, and myself and hunting partner are the only 2 residents. Well I didn’t do the things I mentioned above, and neither did the guy next to me, well then it had to be some of the 80 NRs, right??
I know my post was long winded, but if you read it, you’d see I never said we did it for the game. I said we did it for us, the residents, not hiding that one bit.
And believe me I say it all the time, to residents. Our tags are too cheap, and we should be paying more, and so should you. I don’t hide that from anyone. Matter a fact they saw me and my friends say it in person at the IDFG public hearing. Ain’t sceered....
As far as “Getting over myself” I’m working on it, maybe this year when I’m wandering around the Frank, and there is 400 less people, I’ll be able to do that.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 07:33:30 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 04, 2018, 07:39:50 PM
Post by: ipkus on April 04, 2018, 07:48:01 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 04, 2018, 08:03:30 PM
Post by: idaho guy on April 04, 2018, 09:41:26 PM
I don't see the whole idaho residents are going to freak out over tag price increase deal. Resident tags are so cheap even if the doubled it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Everyone I know would happily pay more to have less out of state hunters
[/quote)
:yeah:just what I was thinking we don’t desperately need that money and I won’t complain at all if they raise prices a little
Post by: 2MANY on April 05, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
Get rid of the plane access in the wilderness.
Period.
In other units the residents should be addressing the ATV problems.
Post by: jstone on April 05, 2018, 10:56:06 AM
Post by: bowhunter1181 on April 05, 2018, 01:13:45 PM
Post by: theleo on April 05, 2018, 01:40:26 PM
As someone who has lived in both Idaho and Washington, I have seen just as many residents as non-residents act in a manner that I would consider to be a joke while hunting and fishing. As far as making things better for the residents of Idaho I am fine with it. My hope is that we can do the same thing to limit non-resident fishing here in Washington. But you had better believe that if we do, the complaints from non-residents living in land locked states like Idaho will be the first ones to complain that it isn't fair.To bad that If you want truly larger returns of salmon and steelhead in the Columbia you'd need the support of Idaho residents to push for the removal of Hell's Canyon. Washington has to get it's fisheries management figured out before that card is even relevant.
Post by: Hunter_dan on April 05, 2018, 05:17:29 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on April 05, 2018, 05:56:55 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 05, 2018, 06:06:30 PM
This is a forum of experts, you seem to have it all figured out. Let’s take a time out here for a second from the derailment that occurred and get back to the actual issue. It’s all fine and good to have an opinion about issues you feel passionate about but do it constructively. Not from the position of a victim but rather a position of accountability. Ultimately what led to this decision was idaho residents taking a stand against the prostitution of the frank church wilderness and its resources. Here comes the accountability part, this was our fault as much as it was any NR’s fault for allowing the continued increase in hunter activity in said zones. It was our fault that we stood on the sidelines silent for so many years while our resources were being abused. But it is now your fault that tag quotas have been set. It is NR’s fault for degrading the hunt experience to the point where this action took place. It is NR’s fault for not caring about the resource as they should have. I’m not going to throw out a bunch of obscure statistics or make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims about commerce simply because it makes you look foolish. None of us are experts but one thing is certain we are entitled to our opinion. In closing I will share a couple of my opinions, if certain individuals on this forum are so successful during the early season then why the disdain towards this decision? You still have the same opportunity to come here in October so what does it matter to you? Instead of complaining about what you don’t have try appreciating what you do have. Secondly I wonder how the backcountry pilots survived in the mid 2000’s when hunter numbers were less than half of what they are to date. Basically what I’m saying is narrow mindedness leads to ignorance.
You forgot the mic drop. Boom.
Post by: Northwest Adventurer on April 05, 2018, 06:17:55 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 05, 2018, 09:41:53 PM
I could give a rip about the Frank. Yes, Hershey and a few others I don’t really know because I’m not on instaface post stories/pics of their bucks from the Frank but most of those folks, as far as I know, go in there for a week or two and go IN THERE. I would reckon that a buncha us “slob NRs” that get flown in there do it just for the experience and go various smaller amounts of distance from the airstrips. Alas, you pay to play nowadays and when big money guy and his buddies find a hunt that ONLY costs a grand and they can hunt from the wall tent at the airstrip and shoot deer and drink whiskey for a week...well there you are.
Here’s the rub friends >>> IDFG NEEDS MONEY!! An absolute ton of their employees are barely paid seasonal folk and they have a lot of state to cover and there’s a lot of work to be done in the fish and wildlife business. I know many of these people. So I spent $1600 in tags last year and only took home 2 deer and a elk...seems legit. I’m a horrible hunter and I found wallhanger mulie’s in archery season in a spot I knew nothing about and is barely hunted...but I’m a bad hunter:( I then took a six point bull home and spent more time driving to/from than I did hunting...in a spot I’ve never hunted. Then I went to a heavily hunted spot and rattled in a whitetail and shot his girlfriend...in a spot I’ve never hunted. And again spent more time driving to/from than hunting. So you’re telling me that as a resident you can’t find good huntin? You sure you don’t need help?
Sorry for my late response but me and my crew were busy working in Idaho and spending money at the ma and pa businesses of Riggins and Grangeville. :hello:
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 05, 2018, 09:48:22 PM
PS: if I’m a 30% “resident” does that get me with the cool kids or am I still on the S list?
PPS: because if I become an honorary resident, based on my 30% status, I’ll switch sides and start ripping on these “True NRs” like it’s nobodys business!!!
Post by: trophyhunt on April 06, 2018, 05:38:29 AM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 06, 2018, 05:57:59 AM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 06, 2018, 06:00:46 AM
Post by: theleo on April 06, 2018, 07:11:27 AM
For the record. We don’t need help hunting just don’t need you guys turning our state into one like yours.It wasn't hunters that turned Washington into what it is, or Oregon for that matter, it's the voting majority west of the Cascades that has little to know connection to hunting or wildlife management that has elected the bureaucrats who appoint incompetence to lead roles. It's the reason most everybody east of the Cascades wishes we could draw the state line at the top of the Cascades and secede to Idaho. So we would fall under Idaho's laws, not to change them. I buy tags and hunt in your state because I support what you've done with wildlife management there.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 06, 2018, 07:22:19 AM
For the record. We don’t need help hunting just don’t need you guys turning our state into one like yours.It wasn't hunters that turned Washington into what it is, or Oregon for that matter, it's the voting majority west of the Cascades that has little to know connection to hunting or wildlife management that has elected the bureaucrats who appoint incompetence to lead roles. It's the reason most everybody east of the Cascades wishes we could draw the state line at the top of the Cascades and secede to Idaho. So we would fall under Idaho's laws, not to change them. I buy tags and hunt in your state because I support what you've done with wildlife management there.
Ive heard a little different sentiments from houndsman, and read more than one thread on here that’s nothing but bitching between archers/ modern/ML groups and what’s so unfair since such and such had camped in the same spot forever :rolleyes:
Idaho’s borders are just fine. You guys wanna make another state, please keep it to yourself
Post by: 2MANY on April 06, 2018, 08:05:20 AM
The Idahoains will only have the 12 month human rut to blame.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 06, 2018, 08:49:23 AM
I'm about to be out on this one folks.
However...
I find it wildly ironic that some are constantly complaining and taking shots at NRs while being Idaho residents on a Washington hunting forum.
**For the record I think it's important that we as hunters stick together now and in the future and I would argue that 99% of online arguments would be friendly ones if done in person over a cold beer or a Shirley Temple...the drink of choice for all cool people :hello:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 06, 2018, 09:04:22 AM
I find it wildly ironic that some are constantly complaining and taking shots at NRs while being Idaho residents on a Washington hunting forum.A lot of what I have read on this topic reminds me of a lot of my Californian friends who moved to Idaho. 2 seconds after they move to Idaho, they start complaining about the "non-residents". :chuckle:
I'm a born and raised Idahoan...multiple generations of family in Idaho going back to before it was a state...does that make my opinion more valid than the guy who moved to Idaho from Seattle or LA 12 years ago?? Or since I moved to Washington a few years ago I've now invalidated my entire upbringing and family history?? Or better yet, all you "Idahoans" strongly in favor of this new regulation...I'm sure you will wholeheartedly support massive reductions in elk hunts so the Nez Perce Tribe and other Tribes can harvest more elk in Idaho, right? Since they are the "true" residents...and are probably tired of the slob behavior they see?
you can remain a Washington resident hunter on the license you bought until you become eligible to be an Idaho resident hunter. then all you need to do is call up Washington fish and game and they change your designation to non-resident. all perfectly legal, same thing I did when I came to Idaho.
Post by: idaho guy on April 06, 2018, 09:42:20 AM
I find it wildly ironic that some are constantly complaining and taking shots at NRs while being Idaho residents on a Washington hunting forum.A lot of what I have read on this topic reminds me of a lot of my Californian friends who moved to Idaho. 2 seconds after they move to Idaho, they start complaining about the "non-residents". :chuckle:
I'm a born and raised Idahoan...multiple generations of family in Idaho going back to before it was a state...does that make my opinion more valid than the guy who moved to Idaho from Seattle or LA 12 years ago?? Or since I moved to Washington a few years ago I've now invalidated my entire upbringing and family history?? Or better yet, all you "Idahoans" strongly in favor of this new regulation...I'm sure you will wholeheartedly support massive reductions in elk hunts so the Nez Perce Tribe and other Tribes can harvest more elk in Idaho, right? Since they are the "true" residents...and are probably tired of the slob behavior they see?you can remain a Washington resident hunter on the license you bought until you become eligible to be an Idaho resident hunter. then all you need to do is call up Washington fish and game and they change your designation to non-resident. all perfectly legal, same thing I did when I came to Idaho.
:yeah:The Idaho comments are mostly right on but I have to agree with Idahohunter on this one. Some people move to Idaho and with in a day everyone is a worthless non resident, I moved to Idaho 25 years ago but it was from Montana so I get to hate wa plates in both states! This is the only hunting site I visit probably because I enjoy the drama and there is more on Idaho and out of state hunting than Washington anyways :chuckle: I even had a California transplant complain about all the Californians moving up! I guess he also became and instant Idahoan
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 06, 2018, 10:16:35 AM
I believe that I made it clear that 99% of all ID folk, transplant or not, are my brothers and sisters...I'll make that claim for all hunters everywhere as we will be stronger united than divided. Also I don't hear you two constantly ripping NRs... :tup:
Me and Idaho residents: http://www.rokslide.com/forums/mule-deer/81585-friggin-idaho-locals.html
Post by: lord grizzly on April 06, 2018, 10:42:49 AM
A lot of what I h I guess he also became and instant Idahoan
its not instant, it takes 6 months...
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 06, 2018, 11:19:00 AM
Post by: meatwhack on April 06, 2018, 11:19:32 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 06, 2018, 11:26:04 AM
We can complain all day but in the end Idaho owes us nothing, their wildlife belongs to its residents, and we are guests in their state.Doesn't owe me a thing...I pay for my privilege to hunt and I will follow their laws and regulations...and tag quotas :)
However the NATIONAL Forest and BLM lands upon which I hunt is mine just as much as it is the residents of Idaho.
The opportunities for a NR to hunt, fish, and Recreation there are almost endless. Buy a tag and go hunt.Amen brother Blanch!!
Post by: idahohuntr on April 06, 2018, 11:34:38 AM
ID guy/hntr.Mykiss...I was in complete agreement with what you wrote about all the negativity towards NR hunters (in Idaho)...on a WA forum. Just further expanding on that negativity coming from folks who may not even originally be from Idaho...and if we go back far enough...who really is?
I believe that I made it clear that 99% of all ID folk, transplant or not, are my brothers and sisters...I'll make that claim for all hunters everywhere as we will be stronger united than divided. Also I don't hear you two constantly ripping NRs... :tup:
Me and Idaho residents: http://www.rokslide.com/forums/mule-deer/81585-friggin-idaho-locals.html
I also agree with your sentiment of being united...and not driving additional wedges between R/NR hunters. The states game will be managed for its residents and they get priority in all states...but NR's play an important role too and deserve a slice of the pie. I attribute the steady and substantial NR fees going to IDFG as one aspect of why IDFG doesn't whore out it's wildlife like WA with all kinds of schemes to auction and raffle limited tags to high rollers.
Post by: Miles on April 06, 2018, 12:58:14 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: grundy53 on April 06, 2018, 02:07:34 PM
All you inbred hillbillies just stay the hell out of Colorado.Another California transplant in Colorado...
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
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Post by: Miles on April 06, 2018, 04:55:23 PM
:oAll you inbred hillbillies just stay the hell out of Colorado.Another California transplant in Colorado...
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I was forced to live in California (military). Definitely not from there.
Post by: meatwhack on April 06, 2018, 05:45:34 PM
Post by: Miles on April 06, 2018, 06:22:52 PM
Post by: idaho guy on April 06, 2018, 06:48:08 PM
:Quote from: idaho guy link= :chuckle: :dunno:
[quote author=Mr Mykiss link=topic=225974.msg3008482#msg3008482 date=1523029763A lot of what I h I guess he also became and instant Idahoan
its not instant, it takes 6 months...
[/quote]
:chuckle:
Post by: grundy53 on April 06, 2018, 07:25:17 PM
I was just teasing. It was an easy shot. :chuckle::oAll you inbred hillbillies just stay the hell out of Colorado.Another California transplant in Colorado...
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
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I was forced to live in California (military). Definitely not from there.
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Post by: Tbob on April 11, 2018, 05:41:14 PM
Am I serious? No.... but becoming divided as a whole, I could definitely see it happening some day!
I do enjoy how a lot of the ID guys are quick to point fingers that it’s the NR hunters ruining everything.. good luck with that. And now you can add one more NR to the list of hunters for this year then ruining your state..
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 11, 2018, 06:08:43 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 11, 2018, 07:08:07 PM
Hmmm.... I’m just wondering when ALL of the states “protect” their wildlife for the residents of that state and there is no more “non-res hunts” at all.. I mean if all of us slobby unethical WA hunters are ruining ID then I’m sure slob hunters from other states are ruining WA right?! Let’s shut it down to non-res hunters in WA and protect what little Mis-managed wildlife we have left here in WA for our residents ?!?!
Am I serious? No.... but becoming divided as a whole, I could definitely see it happening some day!
I do enjoy how a lot of the ID guys are quick to point fingers that it’s the NR hunters ruining everything.. good luck with that. And now you can add one more NR to the list of hunters for this year then ruining your state..
All I can say is thank God there’s a cap to nr tags. If you guys buy um all before I get my seconds though I am going to be pissed. Why can’t you just stay in your woods?
Post by: bobcat on April 11, 2018, 07:22:46 PM
Hmmm.... I’m just wondering when ALL of the states “protect” their wildlife for the residents of that state and there is no more “non-res hunts” at all.. I mean if all of us slobby unethical WA hunters are ruining ID then I’m sure slob hunters from other states are ruining WA right?! Let’s shut it down to non-res hunters in WA and protect what little Mis-managed wildlife we have left here in WA for our residents ?!?!
Am I serious? No.... but becoming divided as a whole, I could definitely see it happening some day!
I do enjoy how a lot of the ID guys are quick to point fingers that it’s the NR hunters ruining everything.. good luck with that. And now you can add one more NR to the list of hunters for this year then ruining your state..
All I can say is thank God there’s a cap to nr tags. If you guys buy um all before I get my seconds though I am going to be pissed. Why can’t you just stay in your woods?
Isn't the National Forest everyone's "woods?"
I don't think it should be hard to comprehend why people like to travel to other states to hunt the public land that may offer better hunting than what is available closer to where they live.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 11, 2018, 07:27:52 PM
Post by: time2hunt on April 12, 2018, 06:06:12 AM
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Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 12, 2018, 08:36:52 AM
Now that we have beat the 26/27 reduction to death. When is Idaho going to do something about unit 39
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That’s well overdue too..... place is way over crowded..... boy the whine will be running full force when that happens
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on April 12, 2018, 11:43:23 AM
Funny I asked a biologist at the local mule deer foundation banquet about that the other day. He said that they are solely managing 39 as an opportunity hunt. I think they need to do something. Between the early controlled hunts, general seasons and late controlled archery the deer in 39 are being hunted from August 15-December 19 with the exception of 2 9 day breaks at the beginning of October and November respectively. Last season there were over 13000 hunters on general rifle, the pressure on that herd is unsustainableNow that we have beat the 26/27 reduction to death. When is Idaho going to do something about unit 39
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That’s well overdue too..... place is way over crowded..... boy the whine will be running full force when that happens
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Post by: Tbob on April 12, 2018, 12:07:25 PM
No timmy, nobody from another would be dumb enough to come pay our prices and hunt this cest pool!! Haha
Haha. I knew someone would Point this out! It’s sad but sooooooo true! Lol!!
Post by: lord grizzly on April 12, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 12, 2018, 03:57:57 PM
I don't have a problem with general in 39. its the largest herd in the state and obviously its sustaining the pressure. its a great place for all the NR and Boise weekend warriors to be. well out of my hair where im hunting. :tup::yeah: huge rugged country that mostly stays untouched. Lots of traffic low but the places where the deer stay till the snow flies doesn't get visited much. If you don't want to see 13k other people hike a little higher or go to one of the other units with less pressure. There's dozens to choose from.
Post by: Northwest Adventurer on April 12, 2018, 06:16:33 PM
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 12, 2018, 07:02:54 PM
I guess your right. I’d love e for you all to come over and enjoy our many camp grounds. Just leave by September. The game in those woods belongs or Idaho :IBCOOL:If its National forest and it belongs to everybody already... then the animals living within those forests belong to Everybody as well. If Idaho really wants an area to not have as much pressure.. then they need to limit not only the NR tags but the resident tags as well until the numbers and quality reach their objective. I've always dreamed of hunting Idaho, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, and Alaska. Most of my life I haven't had the time or money. Now that I'm getting to a point where I would be able to afford the costs and time the hunts that I have read about and dreamed about are being limited... Guess I will either come over to those units for early season or save my money and go visit friends and family down in the southern states and shoot hogs and gators... Except Alaska.. I will definitely keep saving for my Kodiak grizzly hunt up there lol! Well either way, whats done is done. Time to make due with what we have left. I just hope when I have kids and they grow up that they still have the opportunity to hunt, fish, and generally enjoy the outdoors.
Post by: Branden on April 12, 2018, 07:54:34 PM
Odds are I won’t draw a tag in there. So why would I care if the unlimited residents manage the herd or wolves manage the herd? Or the outfitters with their tag set aside? Well since I really really dislike wellfair I hope the wolf population explodes and outfitters can’t sell one deer hunt in there so the outfitter set aside is useless.
So now when it comes to donating money to fight the wolf issue in Idaho, or land closures, or Idaho implementing auction tags I won’t waste my time or money on a state that doesn’t care about out of staters. Why would anyone when most of what was posted on this thread by Idaho residents basically said sweet stay out?
I can see why different types of hunting gets banned, why wolves got introduced, etc. Why would anyone from back east care about trapping or wolves when states say sorry it’s your land also, we are going to raise our citizens animals on it for free, but you can’t hunt them.
I’ll use Idaho when I have nothing better going on. But I definitely will not spend any time or money helping them fight any issues.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 12, 2018, 07:57:46 PM
The wildlife is held in trust for the states citizens. Which means the citizens of the other 49 states are letting the citizens of Idaho graze/browse their assets on our land for free. So maybe we should ask them to start paying grazing fees?
Odds are I won’t draw a tag in there. So why would I care if the unlimited residents manage the herd or wolves manage the herd? Or the outfitters with their tag set aside? Well since I really really dislike wellfair I hope the wolf population explodes and outfitters can’t sell one deer hunt in there so the outfitter set aside is useless.
So now when it comes to donating money to fight the wolf issue in Idaho, or land closures, or Idaho implementing auction tags I won’t waste my time or money on a state that doesn’t care about out of staters. Why would anyone when most of what was posted on this thread by Idaho residents basically said sweet stay out?
I can see why different types of hunting gets banned, why wolves got introduced, etc. Why would anyone from back east care about trapping or wolves when states say sorry it’s your land also, we are going to raise our citizens animals on it for free, but you can’t hunt them.
I’ll use Idaho when I have nothing better going on. But I definitely will not spend any time or money helping them fight any issues.
We won’t miss you :hello:
Post by: grundy53 on April 12, 2018, 09:08:19 PM
I have to think 39 is on the list of the “to be addressed” units. I love how our crew fills literally dozens of tags in there yearly. I go over early October and occupy one of your “Treasured” campgrounds to save a spot for my brethren, then we proceed to nullify your deer population. Why??? Because we can. IDGF lets us. They want our money. We stay till November 1 then kill a couple whitetail on the way home. Why??? Because we can. Idaho is like an Easter egg hunt to me. There's stuff under every tree. I just have to pay the price of admission. But, here’s the news cowboy, OR, CA, UT, NV hunters know this as well. It’ll change someday, but until then, we’re Gonna rape and pillage your village. Booyah.Love it! Hope you guys tag out! :chuckle:
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Post by: grundy53 on April 12, 2018, 09:08:46 PM
The wildlife is held in trust for the states citizens. Which means the citizens of the other 49 states are letting the citizens of Idaho graze/browse their assets on our land for free. So maybe we should ask them to start paying grazing fees?Well said!
Odds are I won’t draw a tag in there. So why would I care if the unlimited residents manage the herd or wolves manage the herd? Or the outfitters with their tag set aside? Well since I really really dislike wellfair I hope the wolf population explodes and outfitters can’t sell one deer hunt in there so the outfitter set aside is useless.
So now when it comes to donating money to fight the wolf issue in Idaho, or land closures, or Idaho implementing auction tags I won’t waste my time or money on a state that doesn’t care about out of staters. Why would anyone when most of what was posted on this thread by Idaho residents basically said sweet stay out?
I can see why different types of hunting gets banned, why wolves got introduced, etc. Why would anyone from back east care about trapping or wolves when states say sorry it’s your land also, we are going to raise our citizens animals on it for free, but you can’t hunt them.
I’ll use Idaho when I have nothing better going on. But I definitely will not spend any time or money helping them fight any issues.
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Post by: idahohuntr on April 12, 2018, 10:05:48 PM
The wildlife is held in trust for the states citizens. Which means the citizens of the other 49 states are letting the citizens of Idaho graze/browse their assets on our land for free. So maybe we should ask them to start paying grazing fees?Don't let these vocal "born again" Idahoans from California and Washington get you down.
Odds are I won’t draw a tag in there. So why would I care if the unlimited residents manage the herd or wolves manage the herd? Or the outfitters with their tag set aside? Well since I really really dislike wellfair I hope the wolf population explodes and outfitters can’t sell one deer hunt in there so the outfitter set aside is useless.
So now when it comes to donating money to fight the wolf issue in Idaho, or land closures, or Idaho implementing auction tags I won’t waste my time or money on a state that doesn’t care about out of staters. Why would anyone when most of what was posted on this thread by Idaho residents basically said sweet stay out?
I can see why different types of hunting gets banned, why wolves got introduced, etc. Why would anyone from back east care about trapping or wolves when states say sorry it’s your land also, we are going to raise our citizens animals on it for free, but you can’t hunt them.
I’ll use Idaho when I have nothing better going on. But I definitely will not spend any time or money helping them fight any issues.
Everyone is territorial...a 2A or K plate in parts of Idaho is as 'bad' as being a Non resident. Eastern Wa residents don't like all the west siders...and on and on.
The reality is, states like Idaho better manage all the wildlife with the money and support from non residents. While each state prioritizes its residents input on management, I'm confident IDFG will never turn it's back on NRs...and all the small town businesses sure appreciate your visits.
None of us want to see another orange vest in our 'spot', but at the same time when something threatens our hunting heritage (unmanaged predators, politicians, anti hunters, land transfers etc.) we are stronger when we are one, relatively large, team.
In some instances agencies have to reduce hunter numbers, and I support these actions...but anyone who thinks completely alienating a significant portion of the revenue base is a good long term strategy needs to pull their head out. Do these folks want non hunters paying the Bill's and making hunting and wildlife decisions?? I'll take 10 non resident hunters over a single anti hunter or anti public land zealot! Yea...non residents might be more competition...but they are not the enemy and should be treated with respect.
Post by: Mudman on April 12, 2018, 10:44:35 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 05:31:34 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 13, 2018, 05:37:09 AM
Post by: hunthard on April 13, 2018, 06:26:07 AM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 07:51:26 AM
I wonder why a guy from Idaho {Lord Grizz} has nothing better to do than stir this pot, 20 plus posts and counting on this subject, maybe he's bored sitting in his trailer filled with beer cans and cat turds, maybe the mods should charge him to post on here, either way he has convinced me and my four hunting companions to put in for Idaho from now on. Good Job dude.
there's a quota on tags already. you wont be adding anything you'll just be another road hunter form out of town
Post by: Branden on April 13, 2018, 08:29:53 AM
We won’t miss you :hello:
I'm sure you won't. But for every person you guys alienate that is one less email, letter, phone call, donation, etc to help Idaho out.
Also I'm sure it wouldn't take much to get the feds to make states start paying grazing fees for the wildlife that is using federal lands. Its hard for the Feds to turn down money. Most states compensate private landowners in different ways. Why should citizens of the 49 other states subsidize Idaho's wildlife on their land. I feel like it would be an easy argument to get pushed through.
Maybe the states will give out tags to different units the feds can auction or raffle off like landowner vouchers. Or they will just pay a flat fee per animal like the ranchers pay. A quick google showed around 500,000 estimated deer in Idaho. Almost 62% of Idaho is public land. If we just said that 62% of the deer live on federal land. That's 310,000 deer living on federal land. I think ranchers paid over $1.80 per AUM. So that would cost the state of Idaho almost $6.7 million for just its deer herd. Add in elk moose goat sheep etc and it is probably over $10 million. Since all game departments are always strapped for cash they do the one thing they can to raise money. Increase tag numbers or sell more auction tags. So who do you think would be buying those tags? If they kept non res tag prices the same they would have to sell over 24k more deer tags to non res or residents at the non res price to make up that $6.7 million for just the deer grazing fee.
Every state that makes it harder and harder for non res to hunt, or that has stupid allocations just push out the people paying the bills. And then people from California or New York get stuff pushed through because the rest of the hunters stop caring to waste their time/money helping a state that doesn't do anything for them.
And just for the record I'm all for game management. But I am against welfare. And in my opinion its not game management if one group of hunters is limited and another group is unlimited.
Plus after I get my lifetime license I can act cool like all the Idaho residents on this thread and tell all the non res to stay out we don't need or want you :)
Don't let these vocal "born again" Idahoans from California and Washington get you down.
Everyone is territorial...a 2A or K plate in parts of Idaho is as 'bad' as being a Non resident. Eastern Wa residents don't like all the west siders...and on and on.
The reality is, states like Idaho better manage all the wildlife with the money and support from non residents. While each state prioritizes its residents input on management, I'm confident IDFG will never turn it's back on NRs...and all the small town businesses sure appreciate your visits.
None of us want to see another orange vest in our 'spot', but at the same time when something threatens our hunting heritage (unmanaged predators, politicians, anti hunters, land transfers etc.) we are stronger when we are one, relatively large, team.
In some instances agencies have to reduce hunter numbers, and I support these actions...but anyone who thinks completely alienating a significant portion of the revenue base is a good long term strategy needs to pull their head out. Do these folks want non hunters paying the Bill's and making hunting and wildlife decisions?? I'll take 10 non resident hunters over a single anti hunter or anti public land zealot! Yea...non residents might be more competition...but they are not the enemy and should be treated with respect.
They aren't. I don't mind it. I am just pointing out what could happen. I have always treated Idaho like a friend with benefits. If I didn't have a GF at the time she got a call. Same as Idaho. If I don't have anything better then I grab a tag in Idaho.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 09:15:44 AM
We won’t miss you :hello:
Also I'm sure it wouldn't take much to get the feds to make states start paying grazing fees for the wildlife that is using federal lands. Its hard for the Feds to turn down money. Most states compensate private landowners in different ways. Why should citizens of the 49 other states subsidize Idaho's wildlife on their land. I feel like it would be an easy argument to get pushed through.
Maybe the states will give out tags to different units the feds can auction or raffle off like landowner vouchers. Or they will just pay a flat fee per animal like the ranchers pay. A quick google showed around 500,000 estimated deer in Idaho. Almost 62% of Idaho is public land. If we just said that 62% of the deer live on federal land. That's 310,000 deer living on federal land. I think ranchers paid over $1.80 per AUM. So that would cost the state of Idaho almost $6.7 million for just its deer herd. Add in elk moose goat sheep etc and it is probably over $10 million. Since all game departments are always strapped for cash they do the one thing they can to raise money. Increase tag numbers or sell more auction tags. So who do you think would be buying those tags? If they kept non res tag prices the same they would have to sell over 24k more deer tags to non res or residents at the non res price to make up that $6.7 million for just the deer grazing fee.
.
im sure realize how silly you sound. good luck with pushing through this "easy " legislation :mor:
Post by: grundy53 on April 13, 2018, 09:22:47 AM
Doesn't sound any sillier than some of your ideas...
We won’t miss you :hello:
Also I'm sure it wouldn't take much to get the feds to make states start paying grazing fees for the wildlife that is using federal lands. Its hard for the Feds to turn down money. Most states compensate private landowners in different ways. Why should citizens of the 49 other states subsidize Idaho's wildlife on their land. I feel like it would be an easy argument to get pushed through.
Maybe the states will give out tags to different units the feds can auction or raffle off like landowner vouchers. Or they will just pay a flat fee per animal like the ranchers pay. A quick google showed around 500,000 estimated deer in Idaho. Almost 62% of Idaho is public land. If we just said that 62% of the deer live on federal land. That's 310,000 deer living on federal land. I think ranchers paid over $1.80 per AUM. So that would cost the state of Idaho almost $6.7 million for just its deer herd. Add in elk moose goat sheep etc and it is probably over $10 million. Since all game departments are always strapped for cash they do the one thing they can to raise money. Increase tag numbers or sell more auction tags. So who do you think would be buying those tags? If they kept non res tag prices the same they would have to sell over 24k more deer tags to non res or residents at the non res price to make up that $6.7 million for just the deer grazing fee.
.
im sure realize how silly you sound. good luck with pushing through this "easy " legislation :mor:
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Post by: Mudman on April 13, 2018, 09:26:15 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 13, 2018, 09:54:55 AM
The idea of making states pay a grazing fee per animal is literally the moat ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Every single state owns their wildlife and those state owned animals inhabit federal lands on some level. An idea like that would simultaneously bankrupt every single fish and game agency in the country, NOT JUST IDAHO. :bash:
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 13, 2018, 10:12:22 AM
I'm fine with the IDFG management so far and I'm happy to pay $1,000 to hunt deer, elk and bear there when I have the time. Wish I didn't get accosted for my presence though. Most of the guys from Kootenai are pretty decent but it seems they are not "really Idaho" according to some of their neighbors.
The Frank Church is wonderful country and I'll probably make another trip down there this June.
Post by: grundy53 on April 13, 2018, 10:48:00 AM
Good Lord people act like they banned NR from hunting Idaho. It's a cap on NR FOR A SINGLE HUNT people. Almost every single western state has a draw cap on NR tag allocations.I don't think his response was because of the cap. I think it has more to do with the antagonistic attitude of some of the Idaho residents participating in this thread.
The idea of making states pay a grazing fee per animal is literally the moat ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Every single state owns their wildlife and those state owned animals inhabit federal lands on some level. An idea like that would simultaneously bankrupt every single fish and game agency in the country, NOT JUST IDAHO. :bash:
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Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 11:37:06 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2018, 11:38:56 AM
thanks for everything guys. its bear season now so I no longer need to look for other forms of entertainment to combat the cabin fever. this thread and your responses have been a hoot. ill be off killing stuff now :hello:
Good, just please stay out of Washington. :tup:
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 13, 2018, 12:06:47 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 12:10:13 PM
thanks for everything guys. its bear season now so I no longer need to look for other forms of entertainment to combat the cabin fever. this thread and your responses have been a hoot. ill be off killing stuff now :hello:
Good, just please stay out of Washington. :tup:
does that agreement go both ways? if so that's a easy deal, your on
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2018, 12:49:47 PM
thanks for everything guys. its bear season now so I no longer need to look for other forms of entertainment to combat the cabin fever. this thread and your responses have been a hoot. ill be off killing stuff now :hello:
Good, just please stay out of Washington. :tup:
does that agreement go both ways? if so that's a easy deal, your on
Sure, I'll be in Wyoming, not Idaho.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 13, 2018, 12:54:39 PM
He's not from Idaho based on his previous posts where he described having a Washington license and then moved to Idaho. He's like a few other Californians I've met that move to Idaho...but I still don't understand why he has to have such an arrogant and condescending attitude...particularly on a WA hunting forum. While I don't like it any better...I am more sympathetic to the negative comments directed at NR's if its coming from a 5th generation Idahoan whose had a hunting area overrun by out of towners. A guy who moved to Idaho from Wa, who then wants to come on a WA hunting forum and post a bunch of negative crap...I don't get it. :dunno:I wonder why a guy from Idaho {Lord Grizz} has nothing better to do than stir this pot, 20 plus posts and counting on this subject, maybe he's bored sitting in his trailer filled with beer cans and cat turds, maybe the mods should charge him to post on here, either way he has convinced me and my four hunting companions to put in for Idaho from now on. Good Job dude.
there's a quota on tags already. you wont be adding anything you'll just be another road hunter form out of town
Post by: idaho guy on April 13, 2018, 01:13:57 PM
I have to think 39 is on the list of the “to be addressed” units. I love how our crew fills literally dozens of tags in there yearly. I go over early October and occupy one of your “Treasured” campgrounds to save a spot for my brethren, then we proceed to nullify your deer population. Why??? Because we can. IDGF lets us. They want our money. We stay till November 1 then kill a couple whitetail on the way home. Why??? Because we can. Idaho is like an Easter egg hunt to me. There's stuff under every tree. I just have to pay the price of admission. But, here’s the news cowboy, OR, CA, UT, NV hunters know this as well. It’ll change someday, but until then, we’re Gonna rape and pillage your village. Booyah.
And that is why people hate out of staters. I have thought about this before but I am coming to Washington to bring some meat back our way and I will pay your stupid prices just to prove a point and I will post success or lack thereof on here. Nullify our deer herd really? that is the problem no respect for the resource just I am gonna kill something because I legally can pathetic. I took my son as a youth to Washington at age 8 because he could kill a deer younger than Idaho and I was gratefull for the program and the many deer he harvested I never once wanted to kill everything he legally could. We found plenty of deer and elk quite a bit maybe if you spent more time in your own backyard and less time raping and pillaging ours you would fine them too. Back to the point Idaho did this to MANAGE their game and all they did was LIMIT out of state tags for a limited period of time. YOU CAN STILL HUNT 26 and 27 and I don't know how many other areas. Residents of ALL states should get priority on game but there is still no other state as generous to non residents as Idaho.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 01:16:08 PM
Post by: walleye1 on April 13, 2018, 01:47:58 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2018, 01:53:13 PM
been here for over 2 decades. when does it start to count? should we take the argument that Indians where here first so your not really "from here" either? wait a minute, how did I get sucked back in, I was supposed to be done??? you guys a re a :blast :tup:
If you don't want non residents hunting "your" state, talk to the Idaho Fish & Game department. It's getting kind of old reading all your negative posts every time someone on here mentions that they are going to hunt Idaho. Do you really think complaining on here about it is going to prevent us from going there to hunt?
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 13, 2018, 01:54:31 PM
My experience in idaho is if you stay off the roads you dont run into many idahonions
I tried that and got my spike camp trashed by a local guide deep in the church....I'm over it now though....
Not really. :chuckle:
Post by: Huntin Hounds on April 13, 2018, 02:39:03 PM
I imagine they will adjust the tags for non-residents again in 2-3 years after they see what the response is from Idaho hunters. If Idahoans start utilizing these tags more you wont see a large raise in non-resident tags. If residents don't show up Idaho will allocate more tags to non-residents. I think some of you are making this a bigger deal than it really is.
If Idahoans are concerned about the amount of deer taken they need to pressure IDFG to discontinue all second deer tags. I know lots of Idaho residents that buy the second tag for $300. They only do that because they are good at killing deer and know they will fill the tag. If that second tag was a first tag to a non-resident I would bet it has a far less chance of being filled.
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 13, 2018, 03:04:01 PM
been here for over 2 decades. when does it start to count? should we take the argument that Indians where here first so your not really "from here" either? wait a minute, how did I get sucked back in, I was supposed to be done??? you guys a re a :blast :tup:Not to try and turn this into a tribal or "native" debate... but there is scientific proof that our tribes were in fact NOT the first ones here. Truth is we are ALL immigrants technically! Just some of us have had family here longer than others.
Post by: idaho guy on April 13, 2018, 03:27:31 PM
I guess your right. I’d love e for you all to come over and enjoy our many camp grounds. Just leave by September. The game in those woods belongs or Idaho :IBCOOL:If its National forest and it belongs to everybody already... then the animals living within those forests belong to Everybody as well. If Idaho really wants an area to not have as much pressure.. then they need to limit not only the NR tags but the resident tags as well until the numbers and quality reach their objective. I've always dreamed of hunting Idaho, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, and Alaska. Most of my life I haven't had the time or money. Now that I'm getting to a point where I would be able to afford the costs and time the hunts that I have read about and dreamed about are being limited... Guess I will either come over to those units for early season or save my money and go visit friends and family down in the southern states and shoot hogs and gators... Except Alaska.. I will definitely keep saving for my Kodiak grizzly hunt up there lol! Well either way, whats done is done. Time to make due with what we have left. I just hope when I have kids and they grow up that they still have the opportunity to hunt, fish, and generally enjoy the outdoors.
my experience is Alaska really likes to stick it to non-residents vs residents. I went up diy black bear hunt residents can shoot 3 bears for free we could legally shoot one and it cost 400-500 dollars? same thing on my diy caribou hunt. But I was gratefull to be able to go up their and hunt and fish
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 13, 2018, 03:59:40 PM
That's a different situation lol! Most of Alaska's residents hunt those animals to feed themselves and family throughout the year. Non residents use the meat for themselves and family as well but also have a much better opportunity to go to a store and stock up on groceries, comparatively to Alaska's grocery prices... if they can even get the groceries in to the area sometimes. Its no joke when they say that in Alaska sometimes a gallon of milk is $10. Idaho you could probably snowmobile or drive down to the local store and everything is right there. Sometimes in Alaska they might not have groceries in the store or such a limited amount that they charge SUPER high prices. Plus shipping products to Alaska is expensive! Idaho is close to states that produce a LOT of the things that stores need. Its a tad different having to fill a freezer to the line with meat to make sure yourself or your family doesn't starve compared to being able to run down to the store and get what you need in 30-45 minutes.I guess your right. I’d love e for you all to come over and enjoy our many camp grounds. Just leave by September. The game in those woods belongs or Idaho :IBCOOL:If its National forest and it belongs to everybody already... then the animals living within those forests belong to Everybody as well. If Idaho really wants an area to not have as much pressure.. then they need to limit not only the NR tags but the resident tags as well until the numbers and quality reach their objective. I've always dreamed of hunting Idaho, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, and Alaska. Most of my life I haven't had the time or money. Now that I'm getting to a point where I would be able to afford the costs and time the hunts that I have read about and dreamed about are being limited... Guess I will either come over to those units for early season or save my money and go visit friends and family down in the southern states and shoot hogs and gators... Except Alaska.. I will definitely keep saving for my Kodiak grizzly hunt up there lol! Well either way, whats done is done. Time to make due with what we have left. I just hope when I have kids and they grow up that they still have the opportunity to hunt, fish, and generally enjoy the outdoors.
my experience is Alaska really likes to stick it to non-residents vs residents. I went up diy black bear hunt residents can shoot 3 bears for free we could legally shoot one and it cost 400-500 dollars? same thing on my diy caribou hunt. But I was gratefull to be able to go up their and hunt and fish
Post by: trophyhunt on April 13, 2018, 04:04:47 PM
lol, you beat me to it, I was also going to say that the natives weren’t the first!been here for over 2 decades. when does it start to count? should we take the argument that Indians where here first so your not really "from here" either? wait a minute, how did I get sucked back in, I was supposed to be done??? you guys a re a :blast :tup:Not to try and turn this into a tribal or "native" debate... but there is scientific proof that our tribes were in fact NOT the first ones here. Truth is we are ALL immigrants technically! Just some of us have had family here longer than others.
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
lol, you beat me to it, I was also going to say that the natives weren’t the first!been here for over 2 decades. when does it start to count? should we take the argument that Indians where here first so your not really "from here" either? wait a minute, how did I get sucked back in, I was supposed to be done??? you guys a re a :blast :tup:Not to try and turn this into a tribal or "native" debate... but there is scientific proof that our tribes were in fact NOT the first ones here. Truth is we are ALL immigrants technically! Just some of us have had family here longer than others.
Not sure that makes sense... wouldn’t whoever was the first by definition be native? Thus the natives would be the first? You guys are hilarious
Post by: trophyhunt on April 13, 2018, 05:14:38 PM
Todays natives are what we are talking about, pretty simple to understand. :dunno:lol, you beat me to it, I was also going to say that the natives weren’t the first!been here for over 2 decades. when does it start to count? should we take the argument that Indians where here first so your not really "from here" either? wait a minute, how did I get sucked back in, I was supposed to be done??? you guys a re a :blast :tup:Not to try and turn this into a tribal or "native" debate... but there is scientific proof that our tribes were in fact NOT the first ones here. Truth is we are ALL immigrants technically! Just some of us have had family here longer than others.
Not sure that makes sense... wouldn’t whoever was the first by definition be native? Thus the natives would be the first? You guys are hilarious
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 05:53:45 PM
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 13, 2018, 06:18:06 PM
Uh yeah...you guys were getting legalistic so I was too. Look up the definition of nativeOk... let me change it... the "Indians" we have now were not the first people to inhabit this land! Does that work for you?
Post by: trophyhunt on April 13, 2018, 06:23:32 PM
😆 :yeah:Uh yeah...you guys were getting legalistic so I was too. Look up the definition of nativeOk... let me change it... the "Indians" we have now were not the first people to inhabit this land! Does that work for you?
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 13, 2018, 06:26:39 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 13, 2018, 06:34:15 PM
Yeah I’ll give ya that oneUh yeah...you guys were getting legalistic so I was too. Look up the definition of nativeOk... let me change it... the "Indians" we have now were not the first people to inhabit this land! Does that work for you?
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 13, 2018, 06:39:31 PM
Ohh and while we are off the actual subject a bit... Vikings found North America before Christopher Columbus! Columbus day can kiss my Scandinavian butt!Yeah I’ll give ya that oneUh yeah...you guys were getting legalistic so I was too. Look up the definition of nativeOk... let me change it... the "Indians" we have now were not the first people to inhabit this land! Does that work for you?
Post by: JBar on April 13, 2018, 07:43:09 PM
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on April 13, 2018, 08:59:22 PM
This thread is like a train wreck, ugly but you just have to keep looking. If IDFG didn't want %25 of their license income they would have cut all Non resident hunting not just a few. This thread could use a lot less non res bashing and a little more solidarity amongst hunters! :twocents::yeah:
He's right you know.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 19, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Have fun bear hunting, I'll see you over there soon...with 3 other NRs...and WA plates...and $1363 worth of licenses and tags. :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello:
Post by: hirshey on July 12, 2018, 01:31:15 PM
Generally I agree with tag cuts to improve a herds health but I find a drastic cut targeted only at non residents a bit strange. It not longer seems for herd health but simply retaliation. I know currently license sales show it's mostly non residents but that could easily change. If it really were a herd health issue they would of capped all late tags in the unit.
I understand as a non resident that I'm not on the same playing field as residents but this particular cut feels very much in line with Wyoming's wilderness law or the continued cuts to small non resident quotes in G and H in the name of saving the herd while allowing unlimited resident general hunting. Call it what it is, a restriction on non residents for the sake of creating better resident opportunity.
There were a plethora of things that could have been done differently had this been a herd management issue; put 10 days between the unlimited season and General season to discourage people from harvesting TWO bucks in there (yes that would mean reducing season lengths)... not allow a general season AND unlimited draw tag to the same applicant so there aren’t groups of 10 blasting TWO BUCKS per person... NOT allow people to harvest any buck (rather than the point restriction... I think this cut the population off at the knees for a few seasons)... this wasn’t a herd issue in the truest form of an at-risk herd... this was managing people that couldn’t manage themselves. I don’t think the residents would have complained had there not been unethical and sad behavior. I took photos of FIVE bucks one year that were almost completely wasted: one only had the front shoulders taken! :bash: hunters who couldn’t manage their timeframes for pickup were abandoning bags of meat in PLASTIC BAGS on the sides of trails along with spent gas containers and other items they discarded to get to the strip faster. Unethical people caused these changes, not deer numbers in my opinion. Take that for what it is since I only did it 7 years. 🤷🏻♀️
Post by: grade-creek-rd on July 12, 2018, 03:04:08 PM
I am wondering how badly this will hurt George and other locals...I am assuming you guys didn't get drawn? I am glad I didn't even apply this year (I drew some good WA permits) and am already making plans for next year to go back, but with a different mindset (elk...with a camera for deer if I don't get drawn). At least I will probably have more time to go fly-fishing in there!
Grade
Post by: meatwhack on July 12, 2018, 03:23:52 PM
Post by: Miles on July 12, 2018, 03:52:27 PM
Post by: hirshey on July 12, 2018, 04:36:10 PM
well said Hirshey...and some great ideas too! I like the 10 day gap (also allows for the deer to settle down and breed without being pushed) and eliminate the two tags allowed for these units (though the herd can withstand it, it would cut down on usage somewhat). Also, another idea, split the tags like they do for elk, an A deer tag and a B deer tag, with a cap, make the hunter choose, no draw needed and vacations can be planned well in advance. Heck, even make the A tag for the first week of Nov and the B tag for the second week...eliminate the general season in Oct. That way there won't be a "little Seattle" that last week of the season on the airstrips...or even make the tag's for each airstrip...A tag is only good for sub-zone X which encompasses A,B,C, & D airstrips...I know there are certain airstrips that hardly get used and others that are overused. But cutting off non-residents like they did only hurts people like George, as we can find other places to hunt...like AK, MT, NV, WY, OR or even put that money into a drop camp here in WA.
I am wondering how badly this will hurt George and other locals...I am assuming you guys didn't get drawn? I am glad I didn't even apply this year (I drew some good WA permits) and am already making plans for next year to go back, but with a different mindset (elk...with a camera for deer if I don't get drawn). At least I will probably have more time to go fly-fishing in there!
Grade
I like all of those proposals; perhaps with public input, this will only be a temporary fix to the perceived problem. I think it would benefit everyone to push those ideas and make them heard. I worry about George, Walt and his beautiful family, and all the other aviators if this change becomes more permanent. I don’t think it is the best solution, it was simply the “easy” button. Most of my friends that live in Idaho who tried that hunt the past few years said it isn’t worth it to them because they can spend less money and find equal the quality of animal in hike-in general seasons. It isn’t set up to benefit anyone, just reduce the unethical factor that crept into that hunt for some darned reason. I hope a more permanent solution can be found that maintains the integrity of the hunt and herd, and loses some of the garbage that was starting to become prevalent back there.
Post by: hirshey on July 12, 2018, 04:38:47 PM
Post by: hntrspud on July 12, 2018, 05:31:56 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on July 12, 2018, 10:56:28 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 13, 2018, 08:40:25 PM
This change is permanent. Not going to see NR tags come back to previous levels (or anything close) in your lifetime.well said Hirshey...and some great ideas too! I like the 10 day gap (also allows for the deer to settle down and breed without being pushed) and eliminate the two tags allowed for these units (though the herd can withstand it, it would cut down on usage somewhat). Also, another idea, split the tags like they do for elk, an A deer tag and a B deer tag, with a cap, make the hunter choose, no draw needed and vacations can be planned well in advance. Heck, even make the A tag for the first week of Nov and the B tag for the second week...eliminate the general season in Oct. That way there won't be a "little Seattle" that last week of the season on the airstrips...or even make the tag's for each airstrip...A tag is only good for sub-zone X which encompasses A,B,C, & D airstrips...I know there are certain airstrips that hardly get used and others that are overused. But cutting off non-residents like they did only hurts people like George, as we can find other places to hunt...like AK, MT, NV, WY, OR or even put that money into a drop camp here in WA.
I am wondering how badly this will hurt George and other locals...I am assuming you guys didn't get drawn? I am glad I didn't even apply this year (I drew some good WA permits) and am already making plans for next year to go back, but with a different mindset (elk...with a camera for deer if I don't get drawn). At least I will probably have more time to go fly-fishing in there!
Grade
I like all of those proposals; perhaps with public input, this will only be a temporary fix to the perceived problem. I think it would benefit everyone to push those ideas and make them heard. I worry about George, Walt and his beautiful family, and all the other aviators if this change becomes more permanent. I don’t think it is the best solution, it was simply the “easy” button. Most of my friends that live in Idaho who tried that hunt the past few years said it isn’t worth it to them because they can spend less money and find equal the quality of animal in hike-in general seasons. It isn’t set up to benefit anyone, just reduce the unethical factor that crept into that hunt for some darned reason. I hope a more permanent solution can be found that maintains the integrity of the hunt and herd, and loses some of the garbage that was starting to become prevalent back there.
Post by: hirshey on July 13, 2018, 09:51:25 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 13, 2018, 11:06:23 PM
Post by: Miles on July 14, 2018, 07:15:57 AM
Post by: meatwhack on July 14, 2018, 08:30:41 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on July 14, 2018, 08:59:36 AM
I don’t see this changing back any time soon. I also don’t think that the extra deer hunters for those couple of weeks in November are going to make or break any of the businesses in the area.
It's going to hurt some Backcountry fly boys for sure.
Post by: hirshey on July 14, 2018, 09:31:11 AM
Definitely.I don’t see this changing back any time soon. I also don’t think that the extra deer hunters for those couple of weeks in November are going to make or break any of the businesses in the area.
It's going to hurt some Backcountry fly boys for sure.
Post by: Miles on July 14, 2018, 02:36:04 PM
Definitely.I don’t see this changing back any time soon. I also don’t think that the extra deer hunters for those couple of weeks in November are going to make or break any of the businesses in the area.
It's going to hurt some Backcountry fly boys for sure.
A sacrifice for keeping the trash out of the hills by the sounds. Good on Idaho for taking action. I doubt they’ll roll over on their decision anytime in the near future.
Post by: meatwhack on July 22, 2018, 09:22:36 AM
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on July 22, 2018, 12:38:34 PM
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