Idaho unit 26/27 cuts

[grade-creek-rd]

I fly in my firewood...guys thought I was nuts, but it's the protection of the wilderness. The non-motorized use is universal on all wilderness designated lands in every state. And if a resident of Idaho or Washington wants to use a chainsaw then they both have to apply for it on the same form...as it's federal land. If IDFG want's to limit the NR on state land, I totally see that point...and charging NR's more money is OK as it's a state agency. But using the Frank Church should be equal to all citizens...same with the Alpine Lakes or any other federal land. It belongs to all of us...I pay for upkeep of the Florida everglades too and last time I checked people who live in New York city pay for upkeep of the Frank Church. I get that the animals belong to the state and the state is expected to manage them, so there is an argument to be made about allotting NR tags...but to bring the dead horse full circle for another beating, Guides shouldn't get extra NR tags...heck, I wish IDFG would consider the Air Taxi's as Outfitters as then at lest they would get a piece of the tag pie...George Doris is a friend more than just my pilot and I don't want his business to fail because of a special interest group being greedy.

I think this post is to the point of an Unit 27 late tag...nothing more to see here...

Grade

[2MANY]

I know the saw gig.
I've cut hundreds of logs out of the trails in both the Selway and the Frank.
No chain saw just the old crosscut.

Firewood?
I would hate to see a non native tree species introduced to the wilderness.

The BLM has and is currently spending thousands the last couple years cutting down trees that are not native to the sage brush areas. Not sure if its pines or doug fir but I'm sure of one thing...........................
.........They cover them with black visqueen that has blown every where and of course they don't go clean up their mess. The stuff is everywhere.
Perhaps us tax payers should pick it up?

Driven down the Salmon river during steelhead season lately?
Sanicans on almost every corner.
It's pathetic what our wild places are becoming and it's all from over use.

People want it now and easy.
They don't care about the next generation.

Just like most of the ranchers say in Idaho, "California's, Oregon's, and Washington's right will soon be Idaho's left."
Like most things in life they got it figured out.

Limit easy access in 27 and the tag/harvest deal will take care of itself.

[lord grizzly]

remember this is only NON RESIDENTS were talking about limiting. I say great job F&G. a resident of there own state should have privileges a NON RESIDENT shouldn't. going to make this hunt better for sure 

All the more reason for everyone to move to Idaho!!!!

there's no jobs here

[2MANY]

Who needs to work??
The savings in license fees will feed a family.

[Karl Blanchard]

People act like this stuff is set in stone for the rest of mankind. Just like every other management from adjustment in tags and Seasons it is a management tool.  Too many people (primarily NR) hunting and a bad winter created low deer numbers.  IDFG did the right thing by adjusting accordingly.  Herds bounce back because of said adjustment and quota gets re-evaluated.  Happens every year across the west.  A NR can still hop on line, buy a deer tag and or 2 and go crazy in the vast majority of the state.  God forbid a guy adjust a hunt for a few years for the greater good of the mule deer species.

[grade-creek-rd]

Karl...then why didn't IDFG adjust the Guides & Outfitters NR tag allotment?...by your way of thinking this was done as a game management tool...obviously you haven't read or researched the proposal by the biologist which DID NOT endorse this change. In fact, the ONLY endorsement came from those that proposed it, the Idaho Outfitters & Guides Association.

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[2MANY]

About as obvious as the fact that I've never been in unit 27?

[grade-creek-rd]

Here is the proposal as voted on by the commission...even the residents of Idaho didn't like the fact that the Guides and Outfitters get "in addition too" tag allotment...

https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/commission/march_2018_agenda_16_unlimited_controlled_hunts_rev_0.pdf


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[idaho guy]

With that many total tags I think guides would have to have some tags set aside to make a living. I am not a big fan of using guides personally but guides bring money and jobs to the community too. I also have good friends that are guides and unless you are really big and or pricey its not an easy way to support a family. I doubt the guys running mule deer hunts in 26/27 are getting rich. I know some areas are draw only for guides also but see the logic in being able to plan their business knowing at least some clients would have a guaranteed tag. With that said something is wrong when there is more than double the number of out of state hunters as residents in an area. I DO blame the internet but also read and enjoyed Hirsheys write up  Guess I am a hypocrite. I am glad they did this for sure and it cant do anything but help the herds. I have never hunted 27 either so I may not know 100% what I am talking about. I have hunted some of the surrounding units. Thinking I will hunt 27  in the next year or two since they got rid of all you out of staters!     

[Karl Blanchard]

My hunting partner Dioni was at every single meeting related to this decision.  The air services AND guides were screaming to NOT put a cap on this hunt.  Guides were hauling in group after group and making good money doing it with little effort.  This was driven by the citizens of Idaho who were tired of what the NR masses were doing to the unit.

[actionshooter]

So let me get this right, the above comments are all complaining about the internet ruining Unit 27 yet Hirshey's post on her Idaho hunt goes to a dozen pages or more and views in the hundred with "wow's" and "thank you's", talk about hypocritical!...the airstrips are not "little cities" and there is a lot of wilderness hunts in Unit 27 when it was unlimited, but most hunters (guessing the ones who complained above) expect to walk a 100 yards and see dozens of bucks...well, I have been hunting Unit 27 since 1991 and some of the leanest years were 95 and 96 and especially 97 after the back to back winters of the previous years...in 2014, 2016 (I skipped 2015) the hunting was incredible, probably the best I have ever seen it...and last year the deer suffered from the winter (not the hunters) but the elk hunting was crazy...saw over 200 in 2 days, and killed a 5x5.

Don't be fooled that hunters pushed this change...hunters and air taxi services DID NOT push for this, as I know dozens of hunters who sent letters to not have this kind of cut...it was driven by the Idaho Outfitters and Guide's Association...they WILL NOT suffer from this as they noted that in the past 5 years the most deer hunters that hunted with a guide was 99...so IDFG allotted them 99 outfitter tags above and beyond the NR cap. But on average just over 500 NR hunted this unit so they capped the NR tags at 10% and are only allowing 51 tags NR tags. Even IDFG warned the Guides that if the NR hunters do not return to Idaho to hunt other regions that this will be looked at again in the near future as each NR hunter is worth on average $500 to IDFG and a 450 hunter hit x $500 = $225,000 out of their budget (just for Unit 27...add in the cuts to 26 and 20A, as well as 10A) which is a lot of money to IDFG. Add in all of the revenue lost to Air Taxi's, and local communities (I know we stay at least 2 nights at a hotel, plus food, gas, and buy our groceries once we get to McCall...I grew up in a small tourist town and know that it means more to them to spend my money when I get there than to buy my food at my local grocery store).

As far as the hunting goes...no biologist agreed with the cap, as the carrying capacity is just fine in the Wilderness areas...most of the hunters above are complaining because of THEIR expectations, not the ecosystems. Wolves get hunted hard by all of those NR hunters, with a lot of wolves taken or chased out of the area allowing the mule deer to breed. It is an 18 day season, and the Frank Church is the largest wilderness area in the lower 48 states...500 deer taken out of Unit 27 is nothing and even then, it's not 100% success as some hunters don't care to shoot small bucks...but just because YOU don't want to shoot a small buck doesn't give you the right to limit other hunters...this is the main problem with hunters today...they (YOU) expect everyone to conform to your ideals...I like sitting in camp and spotting 10-15 bucks even if they are 2 to 4 year olds. I like going out in my last day of the hunt, after passing on bucks all week and then filling my freezer...which I find ironic that most hunters in WA just try and find a legal buck, yet when we go to Idaho all of a sudden a "real hunter" only shoots a 180+ inch buck...give me a break. The 500 NR hunters contribute way more to the local economies in ID, as well as the deer can handle the harvest, so why should it be limited?...because Guides were pissed that a NR can and have been going in there and killing the same deer that the Guide charges a NR $5000 to hunt. I've had those guides ride by me on their horses with clients while I was packing out a nice buck and the look on the clients face said it all..."why am I paying this guide so much money and that guy gets to kill that buck instead of me".

WE ALL SHOULD BE UPSET AS WE JUST LOST A HUNTING SEASON...last time I checked the Frank Church is PUBLIC NATIONAL FOREST...I have just as much of a right to hunt there as the next guy, but we all get stuck on this idea of "I want to hunt alone...it's not fair someone else found MY spot" and are apparently willing to give up our hunting spots with an attitude, "Well, if someone else is going to hunt here then I'd rather nobody can"...and for what it's worth, where I fly into (same spot as Hirshey, fyi), I can hike to an area and hunt all day without seeing another person...so, I don't care if there is 200 camps (fyi, there isn't as that would be more than the entire hunter count for Unit 27 at 4 hunters per camp on average) at the runway...nobody is near my spike camp...

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Some of your little rant I actually agree with...........some you are way off.
 For starters I didn't see where the guides were untouched.... that's complete BS, that's totally serving the special interest. Can you say Wyoming?
 Another one is, while I completely think a cut was needed, 10% is way to low, I personally would have been good with 50%

 It is going to be hard on the local economy, This is going to hurt not only (grumpy) George, but the other pilots like Ray, Russ and Walt  (I have been there once or twice, before you ask) along w/ everyone else, those towns count on hunting season.....that completely sucks.

 Yes you can get away from the crowds spiking out, and we do, but how can you say the airstrips aren't overcrowded?? If you were there in the 90s, you should remember what it was like...... In fact 3 years ago, the airstrip you camp on had 18 tents at one time, with 2-8 people in each camp. thats a "little city".  That was the last year I hunted that strip, If thats your normal spot, I can gurantee we would probably recognize each other

I'll be the first to admit that my draw to this area was the "wilderness experience" and with the growing number of hunters, that goes out the window.

I think the way it was with unlimited tags and what they have they are doing in 2018 are the  two extremes..... it needs to be somewhere in the middle.

[actionshooter]

My hunting partner Dioni was at every single meeting related to this decision.  The air services AND guides were screaming to NOT put a cap on this hunt.  Guides were hauling in group after group and making good money doing it with little effort.  This was driven by the citizens of Idaho who were tired of what the NR masses were doing to the unit.

That doesn't surprise me at all, I have heard that before from a buddy in Salmon.

[grade-creek-rd]

Action...I'm sure we know each other...first, the guides were untouched...the MOST clients they had in the last 5 years was 99 and so, IDFG alloted them 99 tags above and beyond the 51 NR special Permit tags, so the guides actually got an increase in tags over last year's total client patrons.

Obviously you've hunted in there since you know the same pilots I do. 500+ hunters for the entire unit 27 is nothing for the size of that unit. IDFG could easily separated out the unit, which they already do for sheep, and then allowed XXX amount of tags for each sub-unit to keep any one certain airstrip from over crowding...but even though I'm not a fan of big groups, like the group of 14 guys in one camp, the deer numbers have never been affected by hunting pressure, it's too big of a unit and too short of a season. For example, I've never hunted the last week...and as far as comparing years...1991 vs 2017 all had about the same number of camps (I do admit in the 1990's there wasn't the fad of backcountry hunting...and even more guys hunted closer to the airstrip as hardly anyone spiked out back then).

My bingest concern is that this change has nothing to do with game management and Idaho isn't/wasn't Wyoming...it sucks they are heading that way, especially since it has nothing to do with game management.

Grade

[actionshooter]

Action...I'm sure we know each other...first, the guides were untouched...the MOST clients they had in the last 5 years was 99 and so, IDFG alloted them 99 tags above and beyond the 51 NR special Permit tags, so the guides actually got an increase in tags over last year's total client patrons.

 500+ hunters for the entire unit 27 is nothing for the size of that unit.

I agree, the problem is there are basically 4 major airstrips that host the majority of those people. I know when I started hunting there, the hunter numbers were in the 250 range for the whole unit......now 650+ (or so) for 2017, spread out over such a limited access area is what is creating the problem.

[lord grizzly]

My hunting partner Dioni was at every single meeting related to this decision.  The air services AND guides were screaming to NOT put a cap on this hunt.  Guides were hauling in group after group and making good money doing it with little effort.  This was driven by the citizens of Idaho who were tired of what the NR masses were doing to the unit.

I tend to believe the guides were not for this change. These guys don’t just make money on these 99 tags. I have to imagine a lot of these guys make a killing on flying in the diy’rs. That number just went down a bunch. I still think it’s great. One of  reasons residents participation on this hunt is low is the crazy online popularity for out of staters. Buddy of mine owns his own plane and doesn’t hunt it. May have a talk with him now and head in there

Probably me and everyone else though. Oh well it least it will all be Idaho guys