Post by: bearpaw on January 21, 2019, 03:53:04 PM
I live in a pretty heavily human populated area only two miles from Colville, a neighbor only about 1/4 mile away says they have trail cam photos of wolves in their back yard! I'm going to have to build a high fenced kennel to protect my dogs! :bash:
We need some wolf management in Stevens County. :bash:
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2019, 04:05:19 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 21, 2019, 04:07:59 PM
Post by: Southpole on January 21, 2019, 04:21:56 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 21, 2019, 04:23:45 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 21, 2019, 04:27:22 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
I think it is a serious concern for people who kids are actually standing waiting for the bus in areas where wolves are being seen!
Let me ask this, how would you feel?
Post by: vandeman17 on January 21, 2019, 04:40:54 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
I think it is a serious concern for people who kids are actually standing waiting for the bus in areas where wolves are being seen!
Let me ask this, how would you feel?
I don’t have kids so that is why I asked. I just know that growing up our bus dropped us at the bottom of our hill and we walked home which was a little over a mile in a wooded area. We had bears and cats around our houses but it was never a concern. Question was purely out of curiousity
Post by: boneaddict on January 21, 2019, 04:46:36 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
It was a legit problem in NM when I was there. I saw the cages and wondered what they were. Brought it up with a warden that visited our camp. He explained the reports and fears etc. it was eye opening.
We have grown men here afraid of their shadow that won’t go in the woods without more heat than Rambo. Put a 9 year old out there by themsemselves or with their 10 year old brother. It’s a legit concern.
Post by: jackelope on January 21, 2019, 04:47:51 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
I think it is a serious concern for people who kids are actually standing waiting for the bus in areas where wolves are being seen!
Let me ask this, how would you feel?
I don’t have kids so that is why I asked. I just know that growing up our bus dropped us at the bottom of our hill and we walked home which was a little over a mile in a wooded area. We had bears and cats around our houses but it was never a concern. Question was purely out of curiousity
He makes a legit point.
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 21, 2019, 06:45:21 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
It was a legit problem in NM when I was there. I saw the cages and wondered what they were. Brought it up with a warden that visited our camp. He explained the reports and fears etc. it was eye opening.
We have grown men here afraid of their shadow that won’t go in the woods without more heat than Rambo. Put a 9 year old out there by themsemselves or with their 10 year old brother. It’s a legit concern.
Good point Bone!!
Just review the threads about the members who are asking what they need to carry just in case.
The other point is that when most of the older folks on here caught the bus. The bears and the cats where shot at enough they had a healthy fear of humans.
Unfortunately wolves have not been taught that respect.
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2019, 06:50:33 PM
Not so much, generations of predators haven't learned that fear, the fear they learn as a small cub, pup or kit from their mothers. Each new generation of litters loosing a little bit more fear.
Post by: Tbar on January 21, 2019, 07:04:50 PM
Serious question. Why aren't more hippies attacked by wolves? I've never come across one with more than bear spray and that's usually a rarity.Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
It was a legit problem in NM when I was there. I saw the cages and wondered what they were. Brought it up with a warden that visited our camp. He explained the reports and fears etc. it was eye opening.
We have grown men here afraid of their shadow that won’t go in the woods without more heat than Rambo. Put a 9 year old out there by themsemselves or with their 10 year old brother. It’s a legit concern.
Good point Bone!!
Just review the threads about the members who are asking what they need to carry just in case.
The other point is that when most of the older folks on here caught the bus. The bears and the cats where shot at enough they had a healthy fear of humans.
Unfortunately wolves have not been taught that respect.
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2019, 07:14:58 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 21, 2019, 07:15:44 PM
Post by: Tbar on January 21, 2019, 07:17:42 PM
Of the times I've been surrounded by wolves I've looked around, and I have yet to see a hippy standing there with me.How many times have you been surrounded?
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2019, 07:18:21 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 21, 2019, 07:20:31 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on January 21, 2019, 07:20:49 PM
It must be the smell. :chuckle: the ones I was near on my bison hunt had this smell to them that I thought it was a biggie. :chuckle: bear spray smelled better.
Reminds me of some of the fragrant flowers I’ve ran into on the PCT over the years. Nice folks tho and flip their biscuits when I give em a few mini snickers 😎
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2019, 07:24:21 PM
General area?
the wedge, hunting lions
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 21, 2019, 07:44:24 PM
Serious question. Why aren't more hippies attacked by wolves? I've never come across one with more than bear spray and that's usually a rarity.
Serious Answer. Most of the hippies were from the 60's/70's and they have either passed on or are to stoved up to be out wandering around in the woods.
I know that a few years ago there was a gathering of hippies up by KF's place. Drove by and they were frollicking in the small lake. Nothing more apealling than Nekid Mature women. Gravity doesn't have a sense of humor.
Post by: KFhunter on January 21, 2019, 07:58:21 PM
seemed harmless enough, if you didn't look too hard.
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 21, 2019, 08:04:03 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 21, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 21, 2019, 08:15:53 PM
Wolves Stalked, Surrounded, and Attacked Stevens County Hunter
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,164173.0.html
This incident used to be posted on the WDFW website, I just checked, it's gone, they removed it or else they watered it down so it doesn't appear as an attack. :bash: :bash:
Wolves Stalked, Surrounded, and Attacked Stevens County Hunter
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/elk-hunter-run-northeast-washington-wolves/
Post by: STARVATION on January 22, 2019, 05:21:40 AM
Post by: wolfbait on January 22, 2019, 09:45:15 AM
Exactly how many encounters have we had that we really don’t know of? One, there’s the folks that have gone missing that we don’t know went missing, and then those that have been reported yet we don’t ever find. Then the big one. How many encounters go poorly for the wolf but are never reported. Even if justified..... look at how crazy the ones that are reported are treated.
:yeah:
WDF&Wolves manipulate everything wolf to favor wolves, not too many people who have followed the wolf situation in WA doubt this.
There is serious lack of knowledge in the dangers of the wolves to many people, WDF&Wolves hiding or refusing to release info. on previous wolf attacks in WA only makes matters worse. Some people will take wolf warnings to heart, while others try the argument that there have only been X number of fatal wolf attacks in North America. I guess the wolf/wolves will have to educated some people all over again.
And then there are the true wolf worshipers:
I talk to a lady a couple of years ago about wolves and packing while she was out on her walks, she told me she thought it would be "cool" to be killed by a wolf. She seemed fairly intelligent up to that point, so I offered to send her info. on the Alaskan school teacher that the wolves killed and ate part of. She declined the offer.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 11:57:10 AM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
I think it is a serious concern for people who kids are actually standing waiting for the bus in areas where wolves are being seen!
Let me ask this, how would you feel?
I don’t have kids so that is why I asked. I just know that growing up our bus dropped us at the bottom of our hill and we walked home which was a little over a mile in a wooded area. We had bears and cats around our houses but it was never a concern. Question was purely out of curiousity
He makes a legit point.
Wolf behavior is different. As they become acclimated to humans, without fear of harm from them, they'll come closer and closer. This is well documented around the world. As they get closer, they'll switch from killing livestock to killing pets, eating garbage and petfood, and eventually challenging and attacking humans. Smaller humans are the simpler prey. Read about what happens in Russia every 30 years or so. The people are unarmed, so they don't kill wolves. Wolf packs eventually attack the humans and the government is called in to eradicate them and teach them to fear humans again. This cycle is nearing its end here in NE WA. Were they my children, they wouldn't go out without protection from these animals.
Post by: HighlandLofts on January 22, 2019, 12:30:36 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans but the --- in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
Post by: PA BEN on January 22, 2019, 12:31:28 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2019, 12:36:09 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans butvthecass wipes in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
My only thing is people are attacked by cougars, bears etc yet there isn't the same mindset? Are wolves a danger to kids or people in general, of course they are. I am just not quick to jump at the idea they are MORE dangerous than other predators. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 12:42:58 PM
@HighlandLoftsDo you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans but the --- in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
Just going to post the rules for you one more time as you don't seem to get it. You don't respond to pm's either so I'll just put it here. I edited your post. Cursing is not allowed. Also not allowed is advocating for any illegal activities. You don't say it, but you've said it in the past. We all know what you're getting at. Please refrain from regularly breaking forum rules.
Hunting-Washington does not condone the illegal killing of wolves or any other wildlife. An organized and civilized society must have laws and those laws must be enforced for a society to remain organized.
It has been the policy of Hunting-Washington to allow most civil discussions. Moderators will sometimes remove comments they find and judge to violate forum rules especially if comments are unsuitable for family viewing or discussion on this forum. When comments are found that suggest illegal activity they are usually left on the forum so that law enforcement can monitor such activity.
Everyone has agreed to the Forum Rules when signing up to use this forum. Please note the following excerpt from the Forum Rules:
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, slanderous, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any State, International, or United States Federal law.
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 12:45:52 PM
https://www.adn.com/outdoors/article/wolves-killed-alaska-teacher-2010-state-says/2011/12/07/
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 12:47:44 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans but the --- in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
My only thing is people are attacked by cougars, bears etc yet there isn't the same mindset? Are wolves a danger to kids or people in general, of course they are. I am just not quick to jump at the idea they are MORE dangerous than other predators. :twocents:
I don't believe that black bears are as dangerous as either. However, they all need to be controlled and people should be aware of all of their killing potential. But wolves live and hunt in packs. They are more dangerous than other predators in that way and their history worldwide proves that. We should be killing cougars, bears and wolves which are coming closer to human populations.
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2019, 12:49:52 PM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans but the --- in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
My only thing is people are attacked by cougars, bears etc yet there isn't the same mindset? Are wolves a danger to kids or people in general, of course they are. I am just not quick to jump at the idea they are MORE dangerous than other predators. :twocents:
I'm alert for all predators, grizzly scare me more than anything else.
For wolves I don't think they're there *yet* but once the game is depleted they'll get there, history has proven this. We just aren't there yet.
Post by: MooseZ25 on January 22, 2019, 12:58:00 PM
Post by: Buckhunter82 on January 22, 2019, 01:36:52 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on January 22, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
We don't need a kid at the bus stop to be attacked or killed to realize we have a predator problem.
Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that is exactly what may have to happen before folks wake up.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 01:53:31 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 22, 2019, 01:54:40 PM
:yeah: and probably more than once. Once will be chalked up to human fault somehow.
Or not a confirmed attack by WDFW.
Post by: huntnfmly on January 22, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
I agreeWe don't need a kid at the bus stop to be attacked or killed to realize we have a predator problem.
Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that is exactly what may have to happen before folks wake up.
And when people post statistics saying the odds are very low of being attacked by wolves I say ask the people who's loved ones have been attacked or killed their odds were 100%
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 22, 2019, 02:15:21 PM
Wolves have been spotted in Colville for years. A friend of mine sent me a picture of a plaster cast made from a track not 100 feet from his house that measures over 6 inches wide. This was from last week up the Gold Creek loop. You can hear the damn things howling on any given night out on highway 20 corridor.
Let's not get carried away. Never been a wolf with 6 inch wide feet.
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2019, 02:22:27 PM
I agreeWe don't need a kid at the bus stop to be attacked or killed to realize we have a predator problem.
Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that is exactly what may have to happen before folks wake up.
And when people post statistics saying the odds are very low of being attacked by wolves I say ask the people who's loved ones have been attacked or killed their odds were 100%
Same goes with the people who die in a plane crash, struck by lightning.
We can all agree that wolves have been around for years and year in areas that we all hunt. Lets say we did a forum wide survey of how many hours or days in the field everyone spent in the last 5 years and compare that to the amount of people who even saw a wolf out in the field, let alone were attacked by one. I am confident that those percentages would be way lower than my chance to draw a blues rifle elk tag with 1 point.
The intent of my post is not to argue or sound like a wolf lover but instead to really stop and think about the lengths to which some people are proposing we go to avoid a situation that is probably as likely to happen as us dying in a plane crash yet we don't hesitate in the slightest to jump on a plane to travel. :twocents:
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2019, 02:26:15 PM
Wolves have been spotted in Colville for years. A friend of mine sent me a picture of a plaster cast made from a track not 100 feet from his house that measures over 6 inches wide. This was from last week up the Gold Creek loop. You can hear the damn things howling on any given night out on highway 20 corridor.
Let's not get carried away. Never been a wolf with 6 inch wide feet.
This is the biggest I've seen, I took the images, that's a 30lb Brittany paw that just about fits in one toe of the wolf
30-06 cartridge 3.3 to 3.4 inches, not sure what Hornady superformance 165 SST is exactly.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=139850.0;attach=283051;image)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=139850.0;attach=283045;image)
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 02:28:12 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 02:28:58 PM
Wolves have been spotted in Colville for years. A friend of mine sent me a picture of a plaster cast made from a track not 100 feet from his house that measures over 6 inches wide. This was from last week up the Gold Creek loop. You can hear the damn things howling on any given night out on highway 20 corridor.
Let's not get carried away. Never been a wolf with 6 inch wide feet.
this gotta be close, I took the images, that's a Brittany paw that just about fits in one toe of the wolf
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=139850.0;attach=283051;image)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=139850.0;attach=283045;image)
I'm sure I don't have to tell you that your tracks are going to appear significantly larger when they're all melted out like that.
Don't get me wrong...they're huge tracks.
What cartridge is that?
Post by: KFhunter on January 22, 2019, 02:31:26 PM
It was a big dog, I seen a lot of wolf prints, this was a monster. Well short of 6" wide but a monster none the less.
That's a 30-06 Hornady Superformance 165 SST, so 3.3 ish inches long.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 02:41:09 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 22, 2019, 02:42:39 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.Because the child cages are nothing more than an emotional grab for attention to try and influence public policy regarding wolf management.
No facts support taking steps of putting kids in cages...not to mention - if the threat is that real, just wait with the kid in your car at the bus stop.
I had to walk a 1/2 mile home through wooded area of rural Idaho to get to and from my bus stop. I can attest that I was never eaten by a predator :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 02:46:47 PM
Post by: Buckhunter82 on January 22, 2019, 02:47:20 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
Mountain lions and cougars?
Post by: huntnfmly on January 22, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
Was it uphill both ways?Mine was and it always was snowing year round😆😆
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2019, 02:50:46 PM
And tigers.I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
Mountain lions and cougars?
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2019, 02:52:36 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
I would just like to see raw data of number of wolves versus number of attacks compared to the same analysis for bears and cougars. I just hesitate to start a doomsday outlook where no kids in rural areas are safe without some sort of protection. I am an optimist but also a realist and prefer to preach awareness versus paranoia.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 02:56:01 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2019, 03:04:26 PM
Are you talking just about North America or worldwide? The wolf attacks in Siberia, Kazakhstan, Scandinavia, Iran are sizable.
Both. The attacks in Siberia etc are totally different in they are different breeds of wolves and the landscape/availability of prey is totally different. I just have a hard time comparing and drawing conclusions to what might happen to the kids of colville with more wolves around based on what its like in Scandinavia.
Post by: Eric M on January 22, 2019, 03:11:08 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 22, 2019, 03:22:21 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
I would just like to see raw data of number of wolves versus number of attacks compared to the same analysis for bears and cougars. I just hesitate to start a doomsday outlook where no kids in rural areas are safe without some sort of protection. I am an optimist but also a realist and prefer to preach awareness versus paranoia.
I doubt most wolves or cougar would attack humans currently, because there are still a fair number of deer, elk, moose, and cattle to eat. As wildlife gets more scarce due to the growing abundance of of predators, the percentage that will attack humans or eat pets and cattle could change. It really sucked for the North Bend bikers who were the unlucky small percentage. :dunno:
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2019, 03:28:15 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
I would just like to see raw data of number of wolves versus number of attacks compared to the same analysis for bears and cougars. I just hesitate to start a doomsday outlook where no kids in rural areas are safe without some sort of protection. I am an optimist but also a realist and prefer to preach awareness versus paranoia.
I doubt most wolves or cougar would attack humans currently, because there are still a fair number of deer, elk, moose, and cattle to eat. As wildlife gets more scarce due to the growing abundance of of predators, the percentage that will attack humans or eat pets and cattle could change. It really sucked for the North Bend bikers who were the unlucky small percentage. :dunno:
Precisely. I think predator attacks of all varieties will go up as other game animal numbers decline. If only there was something that could be done to help shrink the predator population... :bash:
Post by: Bob33 on January 22, 2019, 03:39:45 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 03:51:02 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
You keep going back to only wolves... what about the rest of the animals I mentioned? I have all of them around me and are seen regularly and I don't even live out in the woods. Dale pretty much lives like Grizzly Adams compared to me. I have trail cam pics of bears in my backyard at my new house. I left for work later than normal the other day. Saw at least 30 kids waiting for buses. No cages.
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
Mountain lions and cougars?
And pumas.
You got me on that one. Oops.
:chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 04:12:52 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
You keep going back to only wolves... what about the rest of the animals I mentioned? I have all of them around me and are seen regularly and I don't even live out in the woods. Dale pretty much lives like Grizzly Adams compared to me. I have trail cam pics of bears in my backyard at my new house. I left for work later than normal the other day. Saw at least 30 kids waiting for buses. No cages.
If you reread my posts, JL, I'm for managing all of them. I think cougars are dangerous and they've proved so in the last few years especially. But I also think you're fooling yourself because wolves haven't been attacking people here in NA. Managing any of these is not mutually exclusive. Don't ignore the wolves just because they haven't shown their true nature yet. I can almost guarantee that they will if we don't teach them to fear us.
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2019, 04:22:57 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
You keep going back to only wolves... what about the rest of the animals I mentioned? I have all of them around me and are seen regularly and I don't even live out in the woods. Dale pretty much lives like Grizzly Adams compared to me. I have trail cam pics of bears in my backyard at my new house. I left for work later than normal the other day. Saw at least 30 kids waiting for buses. No cages.
If you reread my posts, JL, I'm for managing all of them. I think cougars are dangerous and they've proved so in the last few years especially. But I also think you're fooling yourself because wolves haven't been attacking people here in NA. Managing any of these is not mutually exclusive. Don't ignore the wolves just because they haven't shown their true nature yet. I can almost guarantee that they will if we don't teach them to fear us.
What you are doing is putting wolves ABOVE cougars and other predators. What I have been saying, and I believe Josh is as well is that we just don't think they should be as viewed as a bigger threat than the others. They aren't going to suddenly start grabbing kids and people off every dark back road just because we haven't seen their "true nature" A lot of things would have to change in our landscape to even compare them to the nature of wolves on other continents.
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2019, 04:27:31 PM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
You keep going back to only wolves... what about the rest of the animals I mentioned? I have all of them around me and are seen regularly and I don't even live out in the woods. Dale pretty much lives like Grizzly Adams compared to me. I have trail cam pics of bears in my backyard at my new house. I left for work later than normal the other day. Saw at least 30 kids waiting for buses. No cages.
If you reread my posts, JL, I'm for managing all of them. I think cougars are dangerous and they've proved so in the last few years especially. But I also think you're fooling yourself because wolves haven't been attacking people here in NA. Managing any of these is not mutually exclusive. Don't ignore the wolves just because they haven't shown their true nature yet. I can almost guarantee that they will if we don't teach them to fear us.
I'm really just wondering why we haven't felt like we needed cages for the kids to protect them against the bears and cougars and chi-mo's that have been here and have been attacking/killing/eating people regularly over the last umpteen years before wolves were an issue.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 22, 2019, 04:33:41 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on January 22, 2019, 04:40:59 PM
I think they should be put above other predators IMO they are smarter and hunt in packs big difference from cougars and bears and what is being said is that the landscape is changing and heading that way for wolf attacksI'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
I sincerely hope your words don't become your diet, JL. But, I fear they will. We haven't known wolves as a danger in North America because until a relatively short time ago, we killed them all. The ones who live here now don't know that. I think they're beginning to size us up. Just my opinion.
You keep going back to only wolves... what about the rest of the animals I mentioned? I have all of them around me and are seen regularly and I don't even live out in the woods. Dale pretty much lives like Grizzly Adams compared to me. I have trail cam pics of bears in my backyard at my new house. I left for work later than normal the other day. Saw at least 30 kids waiting for buses. No cages.
If you reread my posts, JL, I'm for managing all of them. I think cougars are dangerous and they've proved so in the last few years especially. But I also think you're fooling yourself because wolves haven't been attacking people here in NA. Managing any of these is not mutually exclusive. Don't ignore the wolves just because they haven't shown their true nature yet. I can almost guarantee that they will if we don't teach them to fear us.
What you are doing is putting wolves ABOVE cougars and other predators. What I have been saying, and I believe Josh is as well is that we just don't think they should be as viewed as a bigger threat than the others. They aren't going to suddenly start grabbing kids and people off every dark back road just because we haven't seen their "true nature" A lot of things would have to change in our landscape to even compare them to the nature of wolves on other continents.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 22, 2019, 04:50:35 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 22, 2019, 05:25:07 PM
If there were cougars or bears being seen in and around town or where my kids caught the bus then I would be just as nervous.Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans butvthecass wipes in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
My only thing is people are attacked by cougars, bears etc yet there isn't the same mindset? Are wolves a danger to kids or people in general, of course they are. I am just not quick to jump at the idea they are MORE dangerous than other predators. :twocents:
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 22, 2019, 05:32:31 PM
Wolves and grizzlies were more of a threat from the old stuff I've read, to people and livestock.Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
A few months ago a young female school teacher was jogging up in Canada that was attacked and killed by wolves.
Also somewhere in Easter washington a few months ago a female researcher was doing some research work and had to climb a tree to get away from the wolves there.
So realistically wolves are a threat to humans butvthecass wipes in Olympia dont care. They have their deer & elk devastation plan into play and no one will get in their way.
It is time to wake up and do the right thing when you see these unregulated predators in my personal oppinion.
My only thing is people are attacked by cougars, bears etc yet there isn't the same mindset? Are wolves a danger to kids or people in general, of course they are. I am just not quick to jump at the idea they are MORE dangerous than other predators. :twocents:
Post by: wolfbait on January 22, 2019, 06:48:04 PM
And remember WDFW trying to call off the helicopter last summer?
Where ever the wolves "migrated" to, there are more wolves, these areas have and will continue to have more wolf/human encounters. WA has 17 plus years of wolves that have never been hunted, except for the ones the public has managed to educate or WDFW pretended to control over livestock predation.
The lower 48 had it's share of wolf problems before they were shot out, but the pro-wolf side doesn't want to look at that too much.
As P-man and others have stated, in other countries where they never had guns, wolves killed a lot of people. It's only a matter of time for WA, with less prey in areas, Now not only wolves but cougars also are a major concern for public safety.
I don’t have much faith in WDFW ever going against their prize wolves now that things are heading south, when a wolf/wolves kill someone and it is finally confirmed, my guess is they will blame the the person one way or the other and call in their fake environmental partners to back their play, while rural communities double down on wolf control of their own.
Post by: HighlandLofts on January 22, 2019, 07:07:27 PM
oh and the teacher killed by wolves was 9 years ago in Alaska.
She is still dead the last I knew. And killed by wolves.
https://www.adn.com/outdoors/article/wolves-killed-alaska-teacher-2010-state-says/2011/12/07/
Post by: Southpole on January 22, 2019, 08:35:05 PM
Cougars and bears are hunted and taught to fear humans. Wolves are not. That is the point I got from Pman.That, aaaaand, the legality of defending against an “endangered” animal (which we all know wolves aren’t endangered) weighs more on people’s minds if they try and defend themselves... makes things a little more complicated and second guessing?
Post by: smittyJ on January 23, 2019, 07:53:18 AM
I'm just sitting over here wondering why we didn't build cages at the bus stops to protect the kids from bears and mountain lions and cougars and coyotes and bobcats and stray dogs and chi-mo's...most of which likely pose more of a threat than a wolf does.
Walls don't work, don't ya know!
Post by: Widgeondeke on January 23, 2019, 08:17:58 AM
We did see a very healthy yote right after the deer we were watching scattered.
Post by: Tbar on January 23, 2019, 09:20:22 AM
How and why do they allow visitors in Yellowstone? Using your logic and expertise it seems like humans would be on the daily menu for wolves.Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
I think it is a serious concern for people who kids are actually standing waiting for the bus in areas where wolves are being seen!
Let me ask this, how would you feel?
I don’t have kids so that is why I asked. I just know that growing up our bus dropped us at the bottom of our hill and we walked home which was a little over a mile in a wooded area. We had bears and cats around our houses but it was never a concern. Question was purely out of curiousity
He makes a legit point.
Wolf behavior is different. As they become acclimated to humans, without fear of harm from them, they'll come closer and closer. This is well documented around the world. As they get closer, they'll switch from killing livestock to killing pets, eating garbage and petfood, and eventually challenging and attacking humans. Smaller humans are the simpler prey. Read about what happens in Russia every 30 years or so. The people are unarmed, so they don't kill wolves. Wolf packs eventually attack the humans and the government is called in to eradicate them and teach them to fear humans again. This cycle is nearing its end here in NE WA. Were they my children, they wouldn't go out without protection from these animals.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 23, 2019, 09:48:23 AM
Post by: Tbar on January 23, 2019, 10:02:28 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
Look, no one's forcing you to believe wolves are a threat. You want to continue to see them as cuddly Walt Disney characters that speak to humans, be my guest. All I'm saying is that wolves becoming more acclimated and getting closer to humans is historically a harbinger of bad things to come. When we're seeing them down in our towns close to populations of humans, we should be taking notice and consider taking precautions.
Precautions, sure. The level of threat and paranoia some of your posts seem to portray... that's where we can agree to disagree :tup:
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2019, 10:13:33 AM
The reality is, like all things with wolves, there is a lot more emotion than fact. Given the millions of recreational/outdoor user days every year in all these northwest states - and given wolf numbers have increased exponentially since they were reintroduced nearly 25 years ago and we've not had a single fatality, it's very unlikely that wolves will present an increased danger to society relative to today.
Bold predictions about the collapse of society and the horrors that are just around the corner are nearly always wrong. Some people predict the world will end in 12 years as a result of global warming, some predict wolves will start eating all the school children any day now...its all the same exaggerated baloney that has no factual basis...in both cases it's just an attempt to influence public policy to suit an agenda.
If you are a hunter, or you live in a rural area where wolves are nearby, you may want to take extra precautions to ensure the 1 in a million doesn't strike you or your family and you have every right to do so. But lets be realistic about the risks of predator attacks and not downplay or exaggerate them.
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2019, 10:19:46 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 23, 2019, 10:20:03 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2019, 10:21:04 AM
Quote
However the story of the boy who cried wolf does come to mind when I read your expert opinion
What happened to that boy anyway..... :chuckle:
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2019, 10:25:10 AM
The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2019, 10:26:21 AM
I've read accounts of wolves written by animal behavioral biologists regarding this exact behavior throughout history and it leads to bad things. You can call it paranoia or you can use sarcasm regarding the boy who cried wolf. I call it informed preparedness and realism. This will not end with the little boy hugging a wolf while it licks his face. Unless we start showing them they need to fear man, we will start having tragedies. Unlike other states that are killing wolves and making them fear man, WA is in lala land about their existence. I strongly believe that haze will very shortly be violently interrupted. When that happens, hopefully you'll wake up. I doubt you'll ever admit you were wrong, however.
The same could be said for you. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2019, 10:27:07 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2019, 10:28:19 AM
only seen thrill killing bear in hollywood scripts
Ive read accounts of thrill killing cougar
Ive seen a thrill killing wolf.
Then there is the pack mentality to deal with.....
Different animals have different characteristics or behaviors. If you don't know that, you should probably avoid going into the woods.
Quote
Everything has to eat, one of the biggest mistakes is to not manage wolf numbers, as the numbers increase and prey becomes more limited other things will have to be eatenExacty
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2019, 10:30:41 AM
same theory applies
and by the way. If you start seeing them, or seeing them in daylight or in town, the red flag might go up.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2019, 10:46:03 AM
0 people were injured or killed, to be exact.The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
Post by: Tbar on January 23, 2019, 10:48:20 AM
Touche'. My comment was geared more toward the preceding events and to an extent the end result. If we try to incite senseless panic, few will listen when the threat is real.QuoteHowever the story of the boy who cried wolf does come to mind when I read your expert opinion
What happened to that boy anyway..... :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2019, 10:50:55 AM
0 people were injured or killed, to be exact.The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
The usual play on words, :chuckle:
Yes, people were attacked, fortunately they successfully defended themselves, like my neighbor did here in WA in 2014, he shot the wolf in mid air leaping at him. There was similar that occurred in Idaho. Many hounds were also eaten, that has also dropped way off since wolf hunting is occurring.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2019, 10:59:04 AM
How many were attacked, and how do you define "attacked"?0 people were injured or killed, to be exact.The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
The usual play on words, :chuckle:
Yes, people were attacked, fortunately they successfully defended themselves, like my neighbor did here in WA in 2014, he shot the wolf in mid air leaping at him. There was similar that occurred in Idaho. Many hounds were also eaten, that has also dropped way off since wolf hunting is occurring.
I know of several people who were setup cow calling and brought a wolf into close range that they ended up harvesting. I do not consider those attacks.
I'm sure there are many who consider seeing a wolf inside 100 yards an attack.
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2019, 11:03:13 AM
0 people were injured or killed, to be exact.The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
The usual play on words, :chuckle:
Yes, people were attacked, fortunately they successfully defended themselves, like my neighbor did here in WA in 2014, he shot the wolf in mid air leaping at him. There was similar that occurred in Idaho. Many hounds were also eaten, that has also dropped way off since wolf hunting is occurring.
Dale, I think everyone here will agree that wolves should be managed and that should include some kind of hunting season. Until that happens, I just don't see it as beneficial to go beyond the level to educate people of their potential dangers but it should also be noted that they are very rare. With the way society tends to go with knee jerk reactions, making it appear that kids or people in general are suddenly at a much greater risk of being attacked by wolves gets us nowhere. Again, these are all MY OWN personal opinions and I spend countless hours in areas that have active wolf populations.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 23, 2019, 11:32:29 AM
I've read accounts of wolves written by animal behavioral biologists regarding this exact behavior throughout history and it leads to bad things. You can call it paranoia or you can use sarcasm regarding the boy who cried wolf. I call it informed preparedness and realism. This will not end with the little boy hugging a wolf while it licks his face. Unless we start showing them they need to fear man, we will start having tragedies. Unlike other states that are killing wolves and making them fear man, WA is in lala land about their existence. I strongly believe that haze will very shortly be violently interrupted. When that happens, hopefully you'll wake up. I doubt you'll ever admit you were wrong, however.
The same could be said for you. :twocents:
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I hope I am. I fear I'm not.
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2019, 11:35:50 AM
I've read accounts of wolves written by animal behavioral biologists regarding this exact behavior throughout history and it leads to bad things. You can call it paranoia or you can use sarcasm regarding the boy who cried wolf. I call it informed preparedness and realism. This will not end with the little boy hugging a wolf while it licks his face. Unless we start showing them they need to fear man, we will start having tragedies. Unlike other states that are killing wolves and making them fear man, WA is in lala land about their existence. I strongly believe that haze will very shortly be violently interrupted. When that happens, hopefully you'll wake up. I doubt you'll ever admit you were wrong, however.
The same could be said for you. :twocents:
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I hope I am. I fear I'm not.
Likewise and I hope I am right in that our current trend of very few actual encounters stays the same until we can start actively managing and hunting them. :tup:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 23, 2019, 11:36:47 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
:tup: That's a good goal. I'm down with that.
Good back and forth. I enjoy a healthy discussion
Post by: Special T on January 23, 2019, 12:04:25 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2019, 12:23:51 PM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/boneaddict/bucks2/ABDFCD0F-9C17-4D31-A269-9C899135D5D6_zpsv5jls5cg.jpeg)
Post by: PA BEN on January 23, 2019, 12:26:15 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2019, 07:24:24 PM
How many were attacked, and how do you define "attacked"?0 people were injured or killed, to be exact.The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
The usual play on words, :chuckle:
Yes, people were attacked, fortunately they successfully defended themselves, like my neighbor did here in WA in 2014, he shot the wolf in mid air leaping at him. There was similar that occurred in Idaho. Many hounds were also eaten, that has also dropped way off since wolf hunting is occurring.
I know of several people who were setup cow calling and brought a wolf into close range that they ended up harvesting. I do not consider those attacks.
I'm sure there are many who consider seeing a wolf inside 100 yards an attack.
In the air coming at you or on the ground coming at you on a run less than 30 yards seems like an attack to me? :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2019, 07:49:00 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2019, 08:03:27 PM
One of the Idaho incidents involved a bowhunter who shot the wolf at very close range with a pistol in archery season, also confirmed as self defense.
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2019, 08:40:17 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 23, 2019, 08:42:18 PM
https://gothunts.com/wolf-attacks/
too bad KXLY doesn't have her interview anymore
Post by: idahohuntr on January 23, 2019, 10:46:14 PM
Seems reasonable. And how many of those occurred in Idaho since wolves were reintroduced? I'm only aware of the lady with the pistol - and it seems more like she called in the wolf with cow calls...not that I'd be waiting around and not shooting a wolf in close proximity to me, but I'm not seeing this as a wolf targeting a human. She was setup with the wind in her favor and the wolf came in...I don't recall it lunging at her...maybe it did??How many were attacked, and how do you define "attacked"?0 people were injured or killed, to be exact.The big problem is that wolves aren't managed in WA and have far less fear of man or human activity. Wolves rarely come near our home or other nearby homes in the area where we operate in northern Idaho because the wolves know they will get shot at. In NE WA these wolves don't have near the fear and are now frequenting human populated areas. That's how it used to be in Idaho 10 years ago, wolves were being seen in towns in north Idaho. After being hunted for nearly 10 years those Idaho wolves mostly stay back in the more remote areas away from humans.
Did those wolves in Idaho 10 years ago attack or kill many people?
The usual play on words, :chuckle:
Yes, people were attacked, fortunately they successfully defended themselves, like my neighbor did here in WA in 2014, he shot the wolf in mid air leaping at him. There was similar that occurred in Idaho. Many hounds were also eaten, that has also dropped way off since wolf hunting is occurring.
I know of several people who were setup cow calling and brought a wolf into close range that they ended up harvesting. I do not consider those attacks.
I'm sure there are many who consider seeing a wolf inside 100 yards an attack.
In the air coming at you or on the ground coming at you on a run less than 30 yards seems like an attack to me? :dunno:
Bottom line - I'm seeing one possible example and I'm not aware of any other scenarios that meet the definition above - and we can all agree there have been 0 injuries or deaths...thank goodness.
So - I'm not seeing any evidence that would suggest what I said is a "play on words". What I stated is unequivocal fact...and I think we all do better if we neither downplay nor exaggerate the risks and dangers associated with predators and wild animals.
Post by: bearpaw on January 23, 2019, 11:11:37 PM
Am I the only one whom is surprised that a Helo could be dispatched that quickly to Sheppard that wolf to safety before it became a hood ornament?
We don't know where the choppers come from, but they have been sighted numerous times when wolves are in the valley. We don't know if that is coincidence, if they are monitoring, or if they are trying to keep them out of the valley due to all the cattle feeding operations and residences.
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 24, 2019, 04:15:41 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 24, 2019, 05:01:33 AM
Just whos paying for this wolf round up type of behavior? It shouldn't fall on the hunters and fishermen to foot the bill if they doAm I the only one whom is surprised that a Helo could be dispatched that quickly to Sheppard that wolf to safety before it became a hood ornament?
We don't know where the choppers come from, but they have been sighted numerous times when wolves are in the valley. We don't know if that is coincidence, if they are monitoring, or if they are trying to keep them out of the valley due to all the cattle feeding operations and residences.
Post by: HighlandLofts on January 24, 2019, 05:54:01 AM
Post by: Special T on January 24, 2019, 12:29:03 PM
With the freedom of information act shouldn't all of the paperwork in this wolf operation be open to the public?
As I remember hearing all of the folks on the WAG have a gag order on them not to talk about the issues, AND the information is not available for public disclosure...
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 24, 2019, 12:35:19 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2019, 03:54:43 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2019, 03:55:09 PM
With the freedom of information act shouldn't all of the paperwork in this wolf operation be open to the public?
As I remember hearing all of the folks on the WAG have a gag order on them not to talk about the issues, AND the information is not available for public disclosure...
That would be weird...where'd you hear that? Even the meetings are public.
Here's the member handbook.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/advisory_group_handbook_2017.pdf
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2019, 04:02:35 PM
Post by: Special T on January 24, 2019, 06:17:07 PM
With the freedom of information act shouldn't all of the paperwork in this wolf operation be open to the public?
As I remember hearing all of the folks on the WAG have a gag order on them not to talk about the issues, AND the information is not available for public disclosure...
That would be weird...where'd you hear that? Even the meetings are public.
Here's the member handbook.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/advisory_group_handbook_2017.pdf
I talked to A Wag Member whom stated they couldnt speak publicly about it. I belive A non disclosure agreement was signed when they brought in the million dollar mediator.
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2019, 09:41:03 PM
With the freedom of information act shouldn't all of the paperwork in this wolf operation be open to the public?
As I remember hearing all of the folks on the WAG have a gag order on them not to talk about the issues, AND the information is not available for public disclosure...
That would be weird...where'd you hear that? Even the meetings are public.
Here's the member handbook.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/advisory_group_handbook_2017.pdf
I talked to A Wag Member whom stated they couldnt speak publicly about it. I belive A non disclosure agreement was signed when they brought in the million dollar mediator.
Not directing this at you specifically, but that makes no sense. the meetings are public. Everything available is public info and available via the FOIA. I don’t get why there’d be a non-disclosure agreement signed.
I messaged a member who is on the WAG to ask him if this is valid. I’ll let you know what he says.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2019, 07:17:33 AM
I'm 90% sure that a member of the forum submitted for wolf info based on the FOIA act a long time ago and got info. Don't hold me to that. I haven't talked to the guy in a long time and he doesn't participate on the forum anymore.
That was I.
Post by: Thermal Predator Control on January 25, 2019, 07:23:57 AM
Post by: Tbar on January 25, 2019, 07:26:40 AM
And now you've become an expert on worldwide wolf behavior. I'm still trying to process your "wolves are different" post. Did your FOIA reveal the "cycle" you referenced in that post? Interesting to say the least.I'm 90% sure that a member of the forum submitted for wolf info based on the FOIA act a long time ago and got info. Don't hold me to that. I haven't talked to the guy in a long time and he doesn't participate on the forum anymore.
That was I.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2019, 07:46:19 AM
Post by: Tbar on January 25, 2019, 07:52:07 AM
Tbar, I don't mind having a civil discourse with someone. But each of your posts has been insulting. If you can't have a discussion like an adult, I'm not going to engage you further. Have a nice day.Your posts come across as insulting, sensationalism, fear mongering and largely unrepresented. To say you might be outside your lane is an understatement.
Post by: jagermiester on January 25, 2019, 07:52:37 AM
Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
It was a legit problem in NM when I was there. I saw the cages and wondered what they were. Brought it up with a warden that visited our camp. He explained the reports and fears etc. it was eye opening.
We have grown men here afraid of their shadow that won’t go in the woods without more heat than Rambo. Put a 9 year old out there by themsemselves or with their 10 year old brother. It’s a legit concern.
Good point Bone!!
Just review the threads about the members who are asking what they need to carry just in case.
The other point is that when most of the older folks on here caught the bus. The bears and the cats where shot at enough they had a healthy fear of humans.
Unfortunately wolves have not been taught that respect.
This is the problem in a nutshell.
We should not fear wolves going after children at a bus stop in the middle of town. Wolves are highly intelligent and they should be shot on site when they are in town. This is how you teach them to respect us and our brains and our thumbs.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 25, 2019, 08:12:50 AM
Fear is an emotion - it's not necessarily fact based or born out of a careful analysis of facts.Do you guys think wolves are actually a threat to kids waiting at a bus stop? Serious question, not just being a jerk.
It was a legit problem in NM when I was there. I saw the cages and wondered what they were. Brought it up with a warden that visited our camp. He explained the reports and fears etc. it was eye opening.
We have grown men here afraid of their shadow that won’t go in the woods without more heat than Rambo. Put a 9 year old out there by themsemselves or with their 10 year old brother. It’s a legit concern.
Good point Bone!!
Just review the threads about the members who are asking what they need to carry just in case.
The other point is that when most of the older folks on here caught the bus. The bears and the cats where shot at enough they had a healthy fear of humans.
Unfortunately wolves have not been taught that respect.
This is the problem in a nutshell.
We should not fear wolves going after children at a bus stop in the middle of town. Wolves are highly intelligent and they should be shot on site when they are in town. This is how you teach them to respect us and our brains and our thumbs.
Post by: Special T on January 25, 2019, 10:49:02 AM
I'm 90% sure that a member of the forum submitted for wolf info based on the FOIA act a long time ago and got info. Don't hold me to that. I haven't talked to the guy in a long time and he doesn't participate on the forum anymore.
That was I.
You attempted to attend a WAG meeting that ended up being a closed meeting once... I remember reading on here that all discussion with the mediator couldnt be talked about with those outside the group. Since it is the biggest hot potato... I will continue to look for it because i know its here some where.
Post by: Whitpirate on January 25, 2019, 10:55:14 AM
the woods are not as "safe" as when I was a kid, I hiked all over but there were guys running hounds all over, cats and other predators had a very healthy fear of people.
Not so much, generations of predators haven't learned that fear, the fear they learn as a small cub, pup or kit from their mothers. Each new generation of litters loosing a little bit more fear.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2019, 10:58:05 AM
Post by: Special T on January 25, 2019, 11:04:26 AM
Yeah, I was in Pullman at the time and the meeting was in Spokane. Originally it was supposed to be open and then they closed it up. It was the 1st meeting with the new whatever-she's-called, moderator-type gal. At least one of the representatives of the cattlemen had just left the WAG because he wasn't getting equal time or given much of a chance to voice his side of the results of the wolf plan.
And i Would bet that this open door/ information policy changed some point shortly after that. :twocents:
Post by: hunter399 on January 25, 2019, 01:15:01 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 25, 2019, 01:35:36 PM
@pianoman9701I'm 90% sure that a member of the forum submitted for wolf info based on the FOIA act a long time ago and got info. Don't hold me to that. I haven't talked to the guy in a long time and he doesn't participate on the forum anymore.
That was I.
Actually it wasn't you I was talking about.
Post by: jackelope on January 25, 2019, 01:37:48 PM
Yeah, I was in Pullman at the time and the meeting was in Spokane. Originally it was supposed to be open and then they closed it up. It was the 1st meeting with the new whatever-she's-called, moderator-type gal. At least one of the representatives of the cattlemen had just left the WAG because he wasn't getting equal time or given much of a chance to voice his side of the results of the wolf plan.
And i Would bet that this open door/ information policy changed some point shortly after that. :twocents:
The screenshots I posted yesterday I pulled off of the website yesterday. So that information regarding public info/FOIA/etc is current.
Maybe they just need to update the website.
:dunno:
Post by: jackelope on January 25, 2019, 01:42:56 PM
There's no agenda yet, but it is open to the public.
:dunno:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/agenda_021219a_WAG.pdf
Washington Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) Meeting February 12-13, 2019 The Meetinghouse at Priest Point 3201 Boston Harbor Road NE Olympia, WA 98506 Pre-agenda The full agenda for this meeting will be posted in the near future. Until that point, this notice is to inform you that the WAG meeting/work session will be open to the public to observe and will follow the same format used in the past, including public comment opportunities at the end of each day.There will also be an open-house style public comment period prior to the WAG meeting on the first day. This period is open to all members of the public and will be attended by WDFW staff members.
Not sure what kind of gag order they can put on a public meeting.
Here is the WAG roster. Anyone know anybody on this list? Can we find out if there actually is some sort of "don't talk" order to members?
Post by: Bango skank on January 25, 2019, 01:49:17 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 25, 2019, 03:11:13 PM
Wolf meetings that are open to the public should be held in areas where the public is most effected by wolves, not in olympia.
Most are in Spokane and Ellensburg. I think 3 of them were in Olympia.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/
Post by: Dick in the Dirt on January 25, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
Post by: STARVATION on January 25, 2019, 06:00:47 PM
And piss on those who think this is a debatable issue.
This is a economics issue.
Hunting was a huge economic boost to N.E. Washington.
Cattle are a historic and economic part of this state.
Mining, timber, cattle and recreation are what the north east part of Washington have made their way on.
Mining has been regulated to a near standstill, timber has every D.N.R. and Forest service as well as the tribes on their ass and NO-ONE in the government cares for Cattle Ranchers. Recreation suffers because of this.
The way you destroy what you do not care for is to destroy their ability to make a living.
It's been done to the commercial fisherman.
It's being done to those listed above.
It's being done to hunting and gun ownership.
And quite truthfully many here just let it happen.
Post by: KFhunter on January 25, 2019, 06:44:00 PM
There's some here that help it happen.
Post by: Thermal Predator Control on January 25, 2019, 07:01:26 PM
Wolf meetings that are open to the public should be held in areas where the public is most effected by wolves, not in olympia.
Yes, 100% correct,
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 25, 2019, 07:29:25 PM
Piss on their meetings and piss on them.
And piss on those who think this is a debatable issue.
This is a economics issue.
Hunting was a huge economic boost to N.E. Washington.
Cattle are a historic and economic part of this state.
Mining, timber, cattle and recreation are what the north east part of Washington have made their way on.
Mining has been regulated to a near standstill, timber has every D.N.R. and Forest service as well as the tribes on their ass and NO-ONE in the government cares for Cattle Ranchers. Recreation suffers because of this.
The way you destroy what you do not care for is to destroy their ability to make a living.
It's been done to the commercial fisherman.
It's being done to those listed above.
It's being done to hunting and gun ownership.
And quite truthfully many here just let it happen.
Hear. Hear.
Post by: 300rum on January 25, 2019, 08:36:51 PM
Piss on their meetings and piss on them.
And piss on those who think this is a debatable issue.
This is a economics issue.
Hunting was a huge economic boost to N.E. Washington.
Cattle are a historic and economic part of this state.
Mining, timber, cattle and recreation are what the north east part of Washington have made their way on.
Mining has been regulated to a near standstill, timber has every D.N.R. and Forest service as well as the tribes on their ass and NO-ONE in the government cares for Cattle Ranchers. Recreation suffers because of this.
The way you destroy what you do not care for is to destroy their ability to make a living.
It's been done to the commercial fisherman.
It's being done to those listed above.
It's being done to hunting and gun ownership.
And quite truthfully many here just let it happen.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 25, 2019, 09:51:58 PM
Piss on their meetings and piss on them.Well - you certainly won't get any positive change by pouting on the sidelines. That much I can guarantee.
And piss on those who think this is a debatable issue.
And quite truthfully many here just let it happen.
Post by: STARVATION on January 25, 2019, 10:11:14 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 25, 2019, 10:16:18 PM
Well everyone here knows where you stand on this......your dis-missed.:rolleyes: Yea, ok. Keep pouting...I'm sure it will work... :chuckle:
Post by: wolfbait on January 25, 2019, 10:30:02 PM
Piss on their meetings and piss on them.
And piss on those who think this is a debatable issue.
This is a economics issue.
Hunting was a huge economic boost to N.E. Washington.
Cattle are a historic and economic part of this state.
Mining, timber, cattle and recreation are what the north east part of Washington have made their way on.
Mining has been regulated to a near standstill, timber has every D.N.R. and Forest service as well as the tribes on their ass and NO-ONE in the government cares for Cattle Ranchers. Recreation suffers because of this.
The way you destroy what you do not care for is to destroy their ability to make a living.
It's been done to the commercial fisherman.
It's being done to those listed above.
It's being done to hunting and gun ownership.
And quite truthfully many here just let it happen.
Sad part of the wolf introduction, is ID, MT, WY, WA, and Oregon, any state the USFWS and state games agencies dumped wolves in, never had a chance. We know that the 30 or 32% increase in the wolf populating each year is a BS number created by the USFWS, and spewed out as gospel by state game agencies. David Mech testified under oath that wolf populations doubled in size each year, and 70% must be killed each year to reduce the wolf population.
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No.28%20May%202008%20FWS%20Biologist%20Says%20Wolf%20Numbers%20Underestimated%20Mech%20Says%203,000%20Wolves%20Exist%20in%20ID,%20MT%20&%20WY.pdf
WDFW claim wolves started "migrating" into WA in 2002, but wolf packs were reported to WDFW in the late 1990's and ignored by WDFW clean up to 2008. One rancher lost a yearling steer gave WDFW definite proof of wolves, and he was ignored or people were told they didn't see what they thought they saw, there are no wolves in WA etc... By the time one of the packs in the Methow was confirmed WA was already well on it's way to a viable wolf population, while WDFW pretended WA was just starting out. Remember the lie of "first wolf pack in 70 years"? And the very same day ODFG came out with the same lie.
The wolf introduction has been one lie after another from start to date, "the fraud and corruption of the wolf introduction".
Folks on H-W couldn't believe for a few years that WDFW would screw them over, even though they could see what ID, MT and Wyoming were going through with the corrupt USFWS and IDFG etc.. Most by now see the light, and those that are for the wolves, are connected to the problem, running interference for the fake environmental groups or WDFW on hunting forums like this one, down playing the impact of wolves, making $$ off of the destruction of game herds and livestock.
At this point there shouldn't be anyone that does not see the writing on the wall, or the agenda to end hunting etc. using predators. What's the chance of voting out those at the head of this snake? Zero
Remember, the USFWS spent 3 million dollars the first year "1960" on their propaganda favoring wolves, comparing the wolves to humans, the pack as a family unit etc., they brain washed several generations. It's hard to fight the propaganda machine of today, especially when you have pretenders on sites like H-W down playing the wolf destruction, fake environmental groups working with state game agencies etc.. And even if you could affect change, how do we catch a wolf population that has had 18 + year in the making?
Like WA, Colorado doesn't have a chance, wolves were dumped in there more then an few years ago now, and it will end up the same as WA.
Post by: STARVATION on January 25, 2019, 10:38:49 PM
Post by: ne kid on January 26, 2019, 12:14:33 AM
Post by: ne kid on January 26, 2019, 12:22:32 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 26, 2019, 05:02:39 AM
Post by: rasbo on January 26, 2019, 05:53:17 AM
Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 26, 2019, 07:15:21 AM
Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
More than we want to know I'd assume.
Post by: Axle on January 26, 2019, 07:44:30 AM
They probably just do what the Clintons did and steal from the Pittman Robertson fund.Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
Post by: bearpaw on January 26, 2019, 09:14:09 AM
Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
There is a web of big environmental foundations giving millions in grants to various environmental groups. The Hewlett Foundation is just one of these big foundations that is funding environmental groups with millions in grants. Earth Justice is just one of the environmental groups that receives grants, there are many others receiving money too, in fact there are hundreds of grants listed by just the Hewlett Foundation on their website. Earth Justice then uses the money to file lawsuits regarding logging, mining, predator control, wilderness, and other environmental issues. Other environmental groups use money from these big foundations in many other ways to accomplish the agenda of the environmental movement. When you look at this link scroll through some of the pages to see other environmental groups receiving funding from just this one foundation.
Hewlett Grant to Earth Justice: https://hewlett.org/grants/?sort=date¤t_page=35
Post by: nwwanderer on January 26, 2019, 11:54:44 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 30, 2019, 05:06:46 PM
The next wolf advisory group meeting is 2/12-2/13 in Olmypia.
There's no agenda yet, but it is open to the public.
:dunno:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/agenda_021219a_WAG.pdf
Washington Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) Meeting February 12-13, 2019 The Meetinghouse at Priest Point 3201 Boston Harbor Road NE Olympia, WA 98506 Pre-agenda The full agenda for this meeting will be posted in the near future. Until that point, this notice is to inform you that the WAG meeting/work session will be open to the public to observe and will follow the same format used in the past, including public comment opportunities at the end of each day.There will also be an open-house style public comment period prior to the WAG meeting on the first day. This period is open to all members of the public and will be attended by WDFW staff members.
Not sure what kind of gag order they can put on a public meeting.
Here is the WAG roster. Anyone know anybody on this list? Can we find out if there actually is some sort of "don't talk" order to members?
Just wanted to follow up with my comments here.
I spoke to a member of the Wolf Advisory Group.
My question:
Soooo is there a gag order put on the WAG members to not talk openly about WAG stuff?
Response:
.......Yes there is a gag order ..........
It goes on to say some other stuff that I won't repeat out of confidence...but that's a copy and paste of the gist of the answer to my question.
So there......that's not what I was expecting to hear.
Post by: huntnfmly on January 30, 2019, 05:15:14 PM
They also use the equal access to justice actThey probably just do what the Clintons did and steal from the Pittman Robertson fund.Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
Basically they have their own lawyers and get funds from that to pay their lawyers every time they file a lawsuit since their lawyers don't cost them anything the money basically just goes into their pockets.
So in a nutshell us taxpayers pay
Post by: idahohuntr on January 30, 2019, 05:41:35 PM
That is a little surprising. I understood some of the closed door "get to know/trust each other" sessions - but a general gag order seems absurd and counterproductive. Its not as though these WAG folks are elected positions chosen to represent constituents. They may come from backgrounds of various interest groups (hunters, enviros etc.)...but to think they represent or speak for the totality of the groups they supposedly come from is not a wise move on WDFW's part. As a hunter I would like to know exactly what sort of things are being discussed and proposed...and since this is all funded by the public I would be curious how this is even legal?The next wolf advisory group meeting is 2/12-2/13 in Olmypia.
There's no agenda yet, but it is open to the public.
:dunno:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/agenda_021219a_WAG.pdf
Washington Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) Meeting February 12-13, 2019 The Meetinghouse at Priest Point 3201 Boston Harbor Road NE Olympia, WA 98506 Pre-agenda The full agenda for this meeting will be posted in the near future. Until that point, this notice is to inform you that the WAG meeting/work session will be open to the public to observe and will follow the same format used in the past, including public comment opportunities at the end of each day.There will also be an open-house style public comment period prior to the WAG meeting on the first day. This period is open to all members of the public and will be attended by WDFW staff members.
Not sure what kind of gag order they can put on a public meeting.
Here is the WAG roster. Anyone know anybody on this list? Can we find out if there actually is some sort of "don't talk" order to members?
Just wanted to follow up with my comments here.
I spoke to a member of the Wolf Advisory Group.
My question:
Soooo is there a gag order put on the WAG members to not talk openly about WAG stuff?
Response:
.......Yes there is a gag order ..........
It goes on to say some other stuff that I won't repeat out of confidence...but that's a copy and paste of the gist of the answer to my question.
So there......that's not what I was expecting to hear.
Post by: KFhunter on January 30, 2019, 05:55:06 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 30, 2019, 06:23:03 PM
I thought that paid consultant put in a gag order like first thing she did.
I thought I heard or read that too. :dunno:
Post by: Special T on January 31, 2019, 08:22:02 AM
The gag order with various conditions has been in place for a long time. True the mediator placed a gag on these closed door sessions but it goes further than that. All discussions relating to lethal control, and studies that were ignored or promoted were not to be discussed as well. For example the Liz Bradly Montana State University depredation on cattle study where they came to the conclusion to kill the whole pack as soon as possible was a non starter. I know it has been posted on here at some point in the past and discussed as to why it was ignored... Well nothing could be said about the who or why it was ignored outside of the WAG. Another example is the Study Done by the department about 3 years ago that stated Wolves had no effects on ungulates. After that horrible BS piece of work was thoroughly trashed in discussions in the WAG the department quit pushing it. I also know that discussion of this was was bantered about on HW. The Limitation on speaking about these issues wasn't just limited to speaking to the press or those outside the WAG. From the list provided by Jackalope you can guess that the members live all across the state. Director Unsworth tightened the gag order on what WAG members could say to their home organizations, and even chastising members for critical internal emails on lethal control.
For a long time folks whom were overly skeptical of the departments actions and motivations were deemed wackos. After my conversation I was blown away at the actions of the department and those wackos don't seem to be so far off the mark to me now. Lots of inside baseball details are needed to fully understand the situation. Many of which cannot be discussed because of possible repercussions, or can only be understood if you spent a huge amount of time studying this issue. Additionally I chatted with some one whom intended to put their hat in the ring to sit on the WAG. They have since changed their mind because they have realized the futility of the endeavor especially when you consider the time commitment.
I realize my writing this brings up more questions than it answers. Perhaps more details will come to light.
Post by: Special T on January 31, 2019, 08:42:27 AM
They also use the equal access to justice actThey probably just do what the Clintons did and steal from the Pittman Robertson fund.Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
Basically they have their own lawyers and get funds from that to pay their lawyers every time they file a lawsuit since their lawyers don't cost them anything the money basically just goes into their pockets.
So in a nutshell us taxpayers pay
When you realize the weight of this arrangement you will be amazed sportsmen have hung on so long.
When you have paid staff they coordinate volunteer efforts. Game plans can be made, Attendance at EVERY meeting across the state becomes possible. Sportsmen have basically been fighting with one hand strapped to their back. Sure organizations like RMEF, SCI and other have SOME paid staff but all of that come from sportsmen donations. The Arrangement you rightly point out is a self feeding machine, AND they also get donations from Celebrities on top of it...
Post by: huntnfmly on January 31, 2019, 08:49:34 AM
I know it's crazy.They also use the equal access to justice actThey probably just do what the Clintons did and steal from the Pittman Robertson fund.Well perhaps you should file a law suit of your own. The wolf, grizzly loving groups have no problem doing so. Just like them when you win they can pay your attorney fees.I wonder how many of those groups use grant money to fight these issues.
Basically they have their own lawyers and get funds from that to pay their lawyers every time they file a lawsuit since their lawyers don't cost them anything the money basically just goes into their pockets.
So in a nutshell us taxpayers pay
When you realize the weight of this arrangement you will be amazed sportsmen have hung on so long.
When you have paid staff they coordinate volunteer efforts. Game plans can be made, Attendance at EVERY meeting across the state becomes possible. Sportsmen have basically been fighting with one hand strapped to their back. Sure organizations like RMEF, SCI and other have SOME paid staff but all of that come from sportsmen donations. The Arrangement you rightly point out is a self feeding machine, AND they also get donations from Celebrities on top of it...
The first time I heard and read about it was WHAT!?.Thats why I bring it up on some of these threads because I don't think alot of sportsman know or understand about it.it really is unbelievable
Post by: idaho guy on February 01, 2019, 05:47:33 AM
That is a little surprising. I understood some of the closed door "get to know/trust each other" sessions - but a general gag order seems absurd and counterproductive. Its not as though these WAG folks are elected positions chosen to represent constituents. They may come from backgrounds of various interest groups (hunters, enviros etc.)...but to think they represent or speak for the totality of the groups they supposedly come from is not a wise move on WDFW's part. As a hunter I would like to know exactly what sort of things are being discussed and proposed...and since this is all funded by the public I would be curious how this is even legal?The next wolf advisory group meeting is 2/12-2/13 in Olmypia.
There's no agenda yet, but it is open to the public.
:dunno:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wag/agenda_021219a_WAG.pdf
Washington Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) Meeting February 12-13, 2019 The Meetinghouse at Priest Point 3201 Boston Harbor Road NE Olympia, WA 98506 Pre-agenda The full agenda for this meeting will be posted in the near future. Until that point, this notice is to inform you that the WAG meeting/work session will be open to the public to observe and will follow the same format used in the past, including public comment opportunities at the end of each day.There will also be an open-house style public comment period prior to the WAG meeting on the first day. This period is open to all members of the public and will be attended by WDFW staff members.
Not sure what kind of gag order they can put on a public meeting.
Here is the WAG roster. Anyone know anybody on this list? Can we find out if there actually is some sort of "don't talk" order to members?
Just wanted to follow up with my comments here.
I spoke to a member of the Wolf Advisory Group.
My question:
Soooo is there a gag order put on the WAG members to not talk openly about WAG stuff?
Response:
.......Yes there is a gag order ..........
It goes on to say some other stuff that I won't repeat out of confidence...but that's a copy and paste of the gist of the answer to my question.
So there......that's not what I was expecting to hear.
Interesting Idahohunter maybe the wolf conspiracy guys on here don’t all wear tinfoil hats? How is it even legal? Good question ask your biologist buddies
Post by: jackelope on February 05, 2019, 12:30:14 PM
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
Agenda posted for WAG meeting Feb. 12-13, 2019 in Olympia
This is a notice to inform you that the next Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) meeting will be held February 12-13, 2019. The meeting will take place at the Meetinghouse at Priest Point, 3201 Boston Harbor Road NE, Olympia, WA, 98506. There will also be an open-house style public comment period on Feb. 12 from 11:00 a.m. to 12:45 p.m. prior to the WAG work session.
A meeting agenda is posted to the Wolf Advisory Group page on the department’s website. The WAG work session will open to the public to observe and will follow the same format used in the past, including public comment opportunities at the end of each day
Post by: bearpaw on February 05, 2019, 01:34:36 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on February 05, 2019, 01:40:54 PM
:ban:
Post by: jackelope on February 05, 2019, 04:11:53 PM
are you through shouting :chuckle:
Didn't want anyone to miss it and then say nobody says anything about the meetings. I can't carry that burden on my shoulders.
:yike:
Post by: bearpaw on February 11, 2019, 11:12:46 AM
are you through shouting :chuckle:
Didn't want anyone to miss it and then say nobody says anything about the meetings. I can't carry that burden on my shoulders.
:yike:
:chuckle: no worries, just messing with ya...
I got a notice they cancelled the meeting due to weather but will have a phone meeting you can listen in on.
WDFW GRAY WOLF UPDATE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/
The Feb 12-13 Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) meeting has been cancelled due to weather. The Department is scheduling a WAG conference call for Wednesday, Feb 13, from 10am-noon. There will be a second, muted line for the public to listen in. The agenda and call-in instructions will be provided in an update on Tuesday.
Post by: jackelope on February 11, 2019, 11:16:54 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on February 11, 2019, 11:30:18 AM
Wonder how many times they'll hit the mute button....
I bet they never unmute it until the end and have very limited time for public feedback.
Post by: bearpaw on February 11, 2019, 11:34:47 AM
Wonder how many times they'll hit the mute button....
I bet they never unmute it until the end and have very limited time for public feedback.
I don't think you can be hear?
Quote
There will be a second, muted line for the public to listen in
Post by: vandeman17 on February 11, 2019, 11:59:11 AM
Wonder how many times they'll hit the mute button....
I bet they never unmute it until the end and have very limited time for public feedback.
I don't think you can be hear?QuoteThere will be a second, muted line for the public to listen in
The way I read it was it will be listen only so even if we have something to say during the meeting, we can't. Lame
Post by: jackelope on February 11, 2019, 12:36:36 PM
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/
The Feb 12-13 Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) meeting has been cancelled due to weather. The Department is scheduling a WAG conference call for Wednesday, Feb 13, from 10am-noon. There will be a second, muted line for the public to listen in. The agenda and call-in instructions will be provided in an update on Tuesday.
I meant I wonder how many times the WAG folks will mute so us call in folks can't hear what they're saying. The muted line they're planning is for us so we can't be heard.
Post by: bearpaw on February 11, 2019, 01:19:32 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on February 12, 2019, 04:30:48 PM