Post by: Katmai Guy on April 14, 2019, 10:05:04 PM
Post by: grimace on April 15, 2019, 06:13:24 AM
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/270_AR/121-631472/
G
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2019, 07:06:21 AM
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Post by: jasnt on April 15, 2019, 07:49:17 AM
I think @Yorketransport did some kind of a 270 short casing to fit the AR platform.yes he did
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Post by: Jolten on April 15, 2019, 09:15:36 AM
I think @Yorketransport did some kind of a 270 short casing to fit the AR platform.yes he did
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I think biggerhammer gas one as well
Post by: Katmai Guy on April 15, 2019, 10:18:01 AM
Post by: yorketransport on April 16, 2019, 06:33:13 AM
It’s a very cool little round and it fits on a standard ar15 size lower. Brass forming is a little involved and takes some practice, but it’s not bad. With all the new brass options for the 6.5 Creedmoor parent case you’ll have a lot of choices for quality brass to form.
The 270 AR has been all but abandoned by everyone; I’m told it involves a dispute around the proprietary bolt head that was required to use the .473 bolt face in an AR15. The 7mm Valkyrie and a few of the other rounds designed by Maddog Weapons systems are doing well though. He was involved in the development of the 270 AR and has moved on to his other wildcats now.
Post by: Huckfin on April 16, 2019, 07:33:00 AM
Post by: konradcountry on April 16, 2019, 09:16:39 AM
Look into the 6.8 SPC. It shoots a .277" bullet and i have friends that love shooting deer with them. the only problem is they are relatively proprietary with uppers, lowers and mags.
Agree that 6.8 is the way to go. Lower is actually the same so though. You can swap a complete upper with a standard AR and only need to change the magazine.
Post by: yorketransport on April 16, 2019, 11:10:18 AM
Look into the 6.8 SPC. It shoots a .277" bullet and i have friends that love shooting deer with them. the only problem is they are relatively proprietary with uppers, lowers and mags.
Agree that 6.8 is the way to go. Lower is actually the same so though. You can swap a complete upper with a standard AR and only need to change the magazine.
The 6.8 SPC is the easy option, but the 270 AR beats it by 150-200 fps in the same length barrels. I’ve shot the 6.8 and the 270 AR side by side out to 900 yards and the performance difference is significant.
Post by: konradcountry on April 16, 2019, 01:11:59 PM
Look into the 6.8 SPC. It shoots a .277" bullet and i have friends that love shooting deer with them. the only problem is they are relatively proprietary with uppers, lowers and mags.
Agree that 6.8 is the way to go. Lower is actually the same so though. You can swap a complete upper with a standard AR and only need to change the magazine.
The 6.8 SPC is the easy option, but the 270 AR beats it by 150-200 fps in the same length barrels. I’ve shot the 6.8 and the 270 AR side by side out to 900 yards and the performance difference is significant.
Sure you get some more power on paper but no one is shooting a deer that far. I doubt any deer will notice the difference at 3 or 400.
Post by: jasnt on April 16, 2019, 02:09:26 PM
i wouldn’t say no one is shooting deer that far. Most cant/won’t shoot deer that far. There are many reasons for wanting that extra performance.Look into the 6.8 SPC. It shoots a .277" bullet and i have friends that love shooting deer with them. the only problem is they are relatively proprietary with uppers, lowers and mags.
Agree that 6.8 is the way to go. Lower is actually the same so though. You can swap a complete upper with a standard AR and only need to change the magazine.
The 6.8 SPC is the easy option, but the 270 AR beats it by 150-200 fps in the same length barrels. I’ve shot the 6.8 and the 270 AR side by side out to 900 yards and the performance difference is significant.
Sure you get some more power on paper but no one is shooting a deer that far. I doubt any deer will notice the difference at 3 or 400.
Post by: nutntoit on April 16, 2019, 03:13:07 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 16, 2019, 03:17:51 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 16, 2019, 03:36:15 PM
.270 is a long action cartridge so wouldn't fit in an AR10 pattern rifle. That being said I think it can be done. I have shot a 300 win mag AR made by Nemo Arms. I think Noreen Arms makes a 270 AR as well.its not 270 win. 270ar
http://ammosmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=10854.0
Post by: konradcountry on April 16, 2019, 06:28:26 PM
i wouldn’t say no one is shooting deer that far. Most cant/won’t shoot deer that far. There are many reasons for wanting that extra performance.
Yes I am sure there is some jerkwad that will pot shot at any range.
But even 600 is too far for those rounds. They suffer from burnout and drop/get pushed around too much.
Post by: Jolten on April 16, 2019, 06:38:00 PM
i wouldn’t say no one is shooting deer that far. Most cant/won’t shoot deer that far. There are many reasons for wanting that extra performance.
Yes I am sure there is some jerkwad that will pot shot at any range.
But even 600 is too far for those rounds. They suffer from burnout and drop/get pushed around too much.
Not to pick a fight but based on what data is it too far?
Post by: Jolten on April 16, 2019, 06:52:36 PM
117gr Hammer Hunter .167bc (G7)
- Muzzle velocity 2732 fps
Hits the 500lb mark at roughly 550 yards.
I know a few people on here who could make that shot center shoulder without problems. Is this a personal opinion based on your limits and experience, or am I missing something?
Post by: jpharcher on April 16, 2019, 07:22:18 PM
Post by: jasnt on April 16, 2019, 07:54:17 PM
Yorken loaded his .270AR for an impact test with the following specs. Field and Stream disputed the 1000 ft lb to ethically kill a deer a few years back claiming they had many quick kills with 500 ft lb at impact.this is how I perceived his post as well but I get that so often I may have been on auto defense
117gr Hammer Hunter .167bc (G7)
- Muzzle velocity 2732 fps
Hits the 500lb mark at roughly 550 yards.
I know a few people on here who could make that shot center shoulder without problems. Is this a personal opinion based on your limits and experience, or am I missing something?
Post by: konradcountry on April 16, 2019, 08:11:36 PM
Yorken loaded his .270AR for an impact test with the following specs. Field and Stream disputed the 1000 ft lb to ethically kill a deer a few years back claiming they had many quick kills with 500 ft lb at impact.
117gr Hammer Hunter .167bc (G7)
- Muzzle velocity 2732 fps
Hits the 500lb mark at roughly 550 yards.
I know a few people on here who could make that shot center shoulder without problems. Is this a personal opinion based on your limits and experience, or am I missing something?
The problem is wind drift, not ability. No one here can predict small wind gusts at that range.
I own a 6.8 upper but a wally world $250 308 will kick the crap out of it at that range. These 6.x bullets in the AR run out of gas and get pushed around too easily.
Post by: yorketransport on April 16, 2019, 08:14:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LZOoTk3.jpg?1)
Here's a thread that I had going while I was working on the project.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,205077.0.html
That gun would have been very capable of killing deer out to 450-500 yards with a couple different bullets. It was a decent LR plinker out to about 900 yards which is where it went sub-sonic with the 135gr SMK at 2630 fps. Once it got to 950 yards the bullets settled back down but required a custom drag curve to calculate drops. I still made a fair number of solid hits on a 16" gong at 1200 yards with it though.
It's a great chambering in the AR-15 and offers very quantifiable advantages over something like the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC at pretty much any range as a hunting cartridge. A 150-200 fps difference is VERY significant in the field. Plus the larger case capacity of the of the 270 AR makes it better suited to use the 130gr hunting bullets. Some folks like using the light weight 110-115gr bullets in the 6.8 SPC, but a 130gr bullet offers very different terminal performance which many (myself included) prefer.
Yes I am sure there is some jerkwad that will pot shot at any range.
But even 600 is too far for those rounds. They suffer from burnout and drop/get pushed around too much.
JDhasty, is that you? :chuckle: This sounds like a comment that's based on more opinion than fact or first hand experience. If I'm wrong, please correct me. There are a lot of folks who consider 5-600 yards medium range and have the skill to back that up. It sounds like those ranges are outside of your comfort/skill zone, so it's good that you're at least willing to acknowledge that.
Post by: yorketransport on April 16, 2019, 08:18:56 PM
The problem is wind drift, not ability. No one here can predict small wind gusts at that range.
I own a 6.8 upper but a wally world $250 308 will kick the crap out of it at that range. These 6.x bullets in the AR run out of gas and get pushed around too easily.
A little practice and the right loads make a big difference. If you're shooting 115gr factory loads in the 6.8 SPC then yes, the wind is going to beat you up pretty bad. Shoot that same bullet faster or a bullet with a higher BC at the same velocity and you'll start to see where something like the 270 AR has a pretty clear advantage.
Post by: Jolten on April 16, 2019, 08:24:55 PM
The problem is wind drift, not ability. No one here can predict small wind gusts at that range.
I own a 6.8 upper but a wally world $250 308 will kick the crap out of it at that range. These 6.x bullets in the AR run out of gas and get pushed around too easily.
A little practice and the right loads make a big difference. If you're shooting 115gr factory loads in the 6.8 SPC then yes, the wind is going to beat you up pretty bad. Shoot that same bullet faster or a bullet with a higher BC at the same velocity and you'll start to see where something like the 270 AR has a pretty clear advantage.
I was hoping you'd chime in
Post by: konradcountry on April 16, 2019, 08:37:32 PM
JDhasty, is that you? :chuckle: This sounds like a comment that's based on more opinion than fact or first hand experience. If I'm wrong, please correct me. There are a lot of folks who consider 5-600 yards medium range and have the skill to back that up. It sounds like those ranges are outside of your comfort/skill zone, so it's good that you're at least willing to acknowledge that.
Like I said it runs out of gas and get pushed around too easily. So you might take it out and hit steel at 600. Right, good job. But that's not the point. The point is that a small gust of wind can push that bullet and knock the teeth out of the deer or gut shot it. It's too vulnerable to wind at that range and skill doesn't change that.
I'm not the first person to point this out. The drift is actually worse than the 223
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/04/not-so-special-a-critical-view-of-the-6-8mm-spc/
You can't treat these rounds like they are full rifle rounds. They are in-between and this shows up in wind drift.
Again I have one downstairs. But it's not a 600 yard deer rifle. Would be fine for combat at 600 because at that range any hit is a success.
Post by: yorketransport on April 16, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
Like I said it runs out of gas and get pushed around too easily. So you might take it out and hit steel at 600. Right, good job. But that's not the point. The point is that a small gust of wind can push that bullet and knock the teeth out of the deer or gut shot it. It's too vulnerable to wind at that range and skill doesn't change that.
I'm not the first person to point this out. The drift is actually worse than the 223
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/04/not-so-special-a-critical-view-of-the-6-8mm-spc/
You can't treat these rounds like they are full rifle rounds. They are in-between and this shows up in wind drift.
Again I have one downstairs. But it's not a 600 yard deer rifle. Would be fine for combat at 600 because at that range any hit is a success.
I agree that the 6.8 SPC isn't a 5-600 yard deer cartridge and I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with you, but that's where the advantage goes to the larger 270 AR. Better bullets at higher velocity offer very meaningful advantages at all ranges. Look at the differences between a 110gr Accubond at about 2550 fps (a very realistic performance value) from a 6.8 SPC compared to a 130gr Accubond at 2630 fps (an actual load from my 18" 270 AR barrel) from something like the 270 AR. A bullet with a significantly higher BC combined with a modest increase in velocity makes a big difference in trajectory and energy.
The problem with mid to long range shooting is that there's a lot of misleading information out there on both sides of the discussion. For every person who says that shooting 1000 yards can be done with a 223 and $200 optic, there's somebody else who states that it takes thousands of dollars worth of equipment and years of training to make the same shot. The whole situation just gets compounded when you're dealing with the capabilities of a wildcat or uncommon chambering like the 270 AR here. You're making a judgment based on the experience you have which is based on the ballistically inferior 6.8 SPC. Those of us (a relatively small number) who have considerable experience with the 270 AR can attest to the significant performance differences between the two. First hand experience will always trump theoretical data. I'm not trying put you down, I'm just trying to bring a little bit of reality to the discussion based on actual first hand data and experience based on my time working with both the 6.8 SPC and the 270 AR side by side in comparable guns.
Post by: konradcountry on April 17, 2019, 12:12:01 AM
You're making a judgment based on the experience you have which is based on the ballistically inferior 6.8 SPC. Those of us (a relatively small number) who have considerable experience with the 270 AR can attest to the significant performance differences between the two. First hand experience will always trump theoretical data.
No I'm making a point based on the limits of this platform.
First hand experience can not trump the physical limits of bullets or the AR-15.
You can't break that AR-15 wall which is why there are trade-offs with all these bullets.
Hunting at 5 or 600 yards is a can of worms in itself because of wind drift. But I would not use an AR-15 in that scenario because there are better tools for the job. Well that goes back to my first point which is that I wouldn't use a wildcat for typical hunting ranges since like I said the deer wouldn't notice the difference. Actually has nothing to do with 270 or 6.8 specifically. Wildcats come with their own trade-offs for better or worse.
Post by: Jolten on April 17, 2019, 07:09:28 AM
You're making a judgment based on the experience you have which is based on the ballistically inferior 6.8 SPC. Those of us (a relatively small number) who have considerable experience with the 270 AR can attest to the significant performance differences between the two. First hand experience will always trump theoretical data.
No I'm making a point based on the limits of this platform.
First hand experience can not trump the physical limits of bullets or the AR-15.
You can't break that AR-15 wall which is why there are trade-offs with all these bullets.
Hunting at 5 or 600 yards is a can of worms in itself because of wind drift. But I would not use an AR-15 in that scenario because there are better tools for the job. Well that goes back to my first point which is that I wouldn't use a wildcat for typical hunting ranges since like I said the deer wouldn't notice the difference. Actually has nothing to do with 270 or 6.8 specifically. Wildcats come with their own trade-offs for better or worse.
Where are the limits of the ar15 platform set? Any hard evidence? I know a few ar15 platforms and calibers have won 1000yard competitions.
Post by: jasnt on April 17, 2019, 12:46:14 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on April 17, 2019, 02:32:43 PM
Look into the 6.8 SPC. It shoots a .277" bullet and i have friends that love shooting deer with them. the only problem is they are relatively proprietary with uppers, lowers and mags.
HATE this round. Daughter had awful luck with this while deer hunting. She center punched a whitetail doe and we had no blood. Watched the footage about 1000 times and it was a solid hit. We never found the deer. Few days later she shot another doe and same luck with blood trail. Luckily we found that deer by grid searching. I bought her a 6.5 Creedmore the next day and have never looked back. I would rather use a friggin sling shot than a 6.8SPC!
Post by: yorketransport on April 17, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
No I'm making a point based on the limits of this platform.
First hand experience can not trump the physical limits of bullets or the AR-15.
You can't break that AR-15 wall which is why there are trade-offs with all these bullets.
Hunting at 5 or 600 yards is a can of worms in itself because of wind drift. But I would not use an AR-15 in that scenario because there are better tools for the job. Well that goes back to my first point which is that I wouldn't use a wildcat for typical hunting ranges since like I said the deer wouldn't notice the difference. Actually has nothing to do with 270 or 6.8 specifically. Wildcats come with their own trade-offs for better or worse.
So quantifiable data isn't relevant? Actual first hand experience is the only thing that matters in the real world. The AR platform is certainly limited, but it's hardly crippled. This is coming from somebody who really doesn't like the AR!
Bullets are what do the real work when hunting. It doesn't matter which firearm it comes from or what the headstamp is on the case it was fired from. There are a variety of excellent hunting rounds available in the AR 15 platform, but some of them are handloader only options. The BR, BRX, Dasher, Grendel, Nosler and Hagar cases have all been tweaked and modified in a variety of ways to offer improved performance within the limitations of the AR 15. Then you can get into the more involved wildcats like some of the ones offered by AR 15 Performance, Tromix and Mad Dog Weapons systems. I have two reamers drawn up for wildcats desinged to max out the performance out of actions the size of an AR-15, including the CZ 527, Howa Mini action and the Ruger American mini action.
As far as using a wildcat for general hunting, that's possibly the most absurd thing I've heard in a while. I've only killed 2 deer with chamberings that offer factory loaded ammo and I've never killed any animal with factory loaded ammunition, other than shotgun shells. The tool used to propel a bullet has no impact on the terminal performance of the load. A 130gr bullet at 2600 fps has the same ballistics whether it came from a wildcat 270 AR, 270 Win, 27 Creedmoor, 270 Weatherby or even my 27 Boondoggle (downloaded by 1000 fps :chuckle:). If you personally like bolt action rifles in factory chamberings that fine, but that doesn't make anybody else wrong for using something different or for shooting beyond a range you're personally comfortable with.
Post by: Yondering on April 17, 2019, 04:25:25 PM
HATE this round. Daughter had awful luck with this while deer hunting. She center punched a whitetail doe and we had no blood. Watched the footage about 1000 times and it was a solid hit. We never found the deer. Few days later she shot another doe and same luck with blood trail. Luckily we found that deer by grid searching. I bought her a 6.5 Creedmore the next day and have never looked back. I would rather use a friggin sling shot than a 6.8SPC!
While I'm not as fond of the 6.8 as some other AR rounds, still, bullets matter a lot more than headstamps. What you describe above is a bullet choice problem (or dare I say it, maybe a shot placement problem, I wasn't there); the 6.8 cartridge is fully capable of making clean kills on deer.
I fully agree with Yorke on this stuff. I've never used the 270 AR, but have/do use a number of other AR wildcats and pretty much all of them are capable of more than some here seem to think.
I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.
Post by: konradcountry on April 18, 2019, 11:30:31 AM
The AR platform is certainly limited, but it's hardly crippled. This is coming from somebody who really doesn't like the AR!
I have never called the AR crippled. This is coming from someone that likes the AR.
My point was that you can't wildcat around its limitations. That's partly why there are so many ammo choices. Everyone is trying give and take towards specific needs.
If I wanted a 600 yard hunting rifle I wouldn't look towards the AR15. It isn't a sleight on the AR15 or even an endorsement of 600 yard hunting.
Bullets are what do the real work when hunting. It doesn't matter which firearm it comes from or what the headstamp is on the case it was fired from.
I said wildcats come with a trade-off. I didn't say what it is. I think you took that as some sort of criticism of wildcat performance or hunting use.
That trade-off of wildcats is resale value and dependence on limited manufacturers, and that is if you are comfortable reloading. Has nothing to do with use or performance.
Anyways I just read that the guys who came up with the 270 AR no longer make the barrel. This scenario is really my concern with these niche rounds. People lose interest and then you can't sell it. Now if you don't care about resale or replacing the barrel then fine but for typical hunters that is a major trade-off.
Post by: CoryTDF on April 18, 2019, 11:36:57 AM
HATE this round. Daughter had awful luck with this while deer hunting. She center punched a whitetail doe and we had no blood. Watched the footage about 1000 times and it was a solid hit. We never found the deer. Few days later she shot another doe and same luck with blood trail. Luckily we found that deer by grid searching. I bought her a 6.5 Creedmore the next day and have never looked back. I would rather use a friggin sling shot than a 6.8SPC!
While I'm not as fond of the 6.8 as some other AR rounds, still, bullets matter a lot more than headstamps. What you describe above is a bullet choice problem (or dare I say it, maybe a shot placement problem, I wasn't there); the 6.8 cartridge is fully capable of making clean kills on deer.
I fully agree with Yorke on this stuff. I've never used the 270 AR, but have/do use a number of other AR wildcats and pretty much all of them are capable of more than some here seem to think.
I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.
I agree with the bullet problem to a point. The first deer was shot with an SST after much more reading and our own experience I went out and got the V-Max (Which is the last thing I would have thought of) but there was some nice things being said on some forums. Anyway, it was the V-Max that we used when she actually recovered the deer. As for shot placement on the first it was a fantastic shot by all accounts. As I said, we filmed it and had the ability to watch the footage many, many , many times and there was nothing wrong with the placement.
I love AR's and i like all these crazy wildcats. I just think the 6.8 falls short. I know a lot of guys back east like to shoot deer with them and that is great for them. My personal experience says that it is a poor choice.
Post by: konradcountry on April 18, 2019, 03:40:03 PM
I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.
Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.
Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light? Tell us how that goes.
Post by: Jolten on April 18, 2019, 03:48:05 PM
I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.
Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.
Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light? Tell us how that goes.
A 270 win would need a AR10 platform. And York has had a 270AR built and gave references to his real life experience with the round with real world factual data.
Post by: Yondering on April 18, 2019, 04:04:11 PM
I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.
Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.
Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light? Tell us how that goes.
Tell us more then about this wall then. What/where is it? How much power can an AR make and at what distance?
Yeah, there are limits, but I don't think you know what they actually are after reading what you've posted here. Conjecture and theory does not trump experience, contrary to your earlier claim.
A few of us here have pretty extensive experience with ARs in lots of different wildcat and factory cartridges; we aren't just going by what we've read in gun mags.
The Nemo magnum-length AR was done in 300 WM and 30/06, so it could be set up in 270 if that's what the OP is looking for.
Post by: yorketransport on April 18, 2019, 07:15:01 PM
The AR platform is certainly limited, but it's hardly crippled. This is coming from somebody who really doesn't like the AR!
I have never called the AR crippled. This is coming from someone that likes the AR.
My point was that you can't wildcat around its limitations. That's partly why there are so many ammo choices. Everyone is trying give and take towards specific needs.
If I wanted a 600 yard hunting rifle I wouldn't look towards the AR15. It isn't a sleight on the AR15 or even an endorsement of 600 yard hunting.Bullets are what do the real work when hunting. It doesn't matter which firearm it comes from or what the headstamp is on the case it was fired from.
I said wildcats come with a trade-off. I didn't say what it is. I think you took that as some sort of criticism of wildcat performance or hunting use.
That trade-off of wildcats is resale value and dependence on limited manufacturers, and that is if you are comfortable reloading. Has nothing to do with use or performance.
Anyways I just read that the guys who came up with the 270 AR no longer make the barrel. This scenario is really my concern with these niche rounds. People lose interest and then you can't sell it. Now if you don't care about resale or replacing the barrel then fine but for typical hunters that is a major trade-off.
You absolutely can wildcat your way around the original design limitations of an action, that's exactly what we do when wilcating! The AR platform was designed around the 5.56, which is a pretty anemic round. Now there are dozens of ballistically superior options that can be stuffed into the same sized platform. There are just some people who will find a way to fit 8 gallons of stuff in a 5 gallon bucket just to say they can. Some folks just get it, others don't.
The secondary market for wildcat AR barrels is actually really good. I've never had a problem selling a used barrel at a fair price. It doesn't matter if the original manufacturer is still in business as long as it's not based on a proprietary case. Any wildcat that can be formed from a readily available parent case will live on as long as the parent brass is available and somebody can make a set of dies. The 270 AR is based on the 6.5 Creedmoor case and that sucker isn't going anywhere, no matter how much some of us wish it would. :chuckle:
Post by: konradcountry on April 19, 2019, 04:56:43 PM
I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.
Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.
Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light? Tell us how that goes.
A 270 win would need a AR10 platform. And York has had a 270AR built and gave references to his real life experience with the round with real world factual data.
Yes and that need isn't arbitrary.
These cartridges have limitations because they have to fit into the AR-15 platform. Hence their limitations and inevitable trade-offs. That is the wall they run into.
So now you understand what I was talking about. Next time just ask instead of being rude.
Post by: konradcountry on April 19, 2019, 05:28:55 PM
You absolutely can wildcat your way around the original design limitations of an action, that's exactly what we do when wilcating! The AR platform was designed around the 5.56, which is a pretty anemic round. Now there are dozens of ballistically superior options that can be stuffed into the same sized platform. There are just some people who will find a way to fit 8 gallons of stuff in a 5 gallon bucket just to say they can. Some folks just get it, others don't.
I said you can't wildcat around the limitations of the platform and the AR10 market is proof of this. The AR10 market wouldn't exist if you could wildcat anything into the AR15. So there are limitations to AR-15 cartridges that leads to trade-offs. So "new fangled AR15 wildcat" always hits those limitations. It's a game of pick your poison.
The secondary market for wildcat AR barrels is actually really good. I've never had a problem selling a used barrel at a fair price. It doesn't matter if the original manufacturer is still in business as long as it's not based on a proprietary case. Any wildcat that can be formed from a readily available parent case will live on as long as the parent brass is available and somebody can make a set of dies. The 270 AR is based on the 6.5 Creedmoor case and that sucker isn't going anywhere, no matter how much some of us wish it would. :chuckle:
It's a standard risk of the wildcat and has nothing to do with the 270 AR specifically. Maybe the resale value is good today but all it takes is a better or more popular cartridge to devalue what you own. The AR market is pretty saturated right now and uppers in the common hunting calibers (6.8/6.5 gren/300 black) can be found on sale. Like I said it's just a trade off. It doesn't mean it is bad or good or should be taken as a sleight. For some the trade-off is worth it, for others it isn't. For most hunters I would say that the common calibers are the way to go.
Post by: yorketransport on April 19, 2019, 07:23:07 PM
It's a standard risk of the wildcat and has nothing to do with the 270 AR specifically. Maybe the resale value is good today but all it takes is a better or more popular cartridge to devalue what you own. The AR market is pretty saturated right now and uppers in the common hunting calibers (6.8/6.5 gren/300 black) can be found on sale. Like I said it's just a trade off. It doesn't mean it is bad or good or should be taken as a sleight. For some the trade-off is worth it, for others it isn't. For most hunters I would say that the common calibers are the way to go.
It's not as if somebody puts together a gun in a wildcat or uncommon chambering not knowing the potential trade offs. Of course I've never had any problem selling any style of gun chambered for a wildcat, I typically get a better price than if it were chambered for a common production caliber. Common calibers are the way to go if you're a factory ammo shooter, I'll agree with that. There's no advantage to hunting with common calibers though for somebody who loads there own ammo though. And I don't buy into the fear of traveling for a hunt and the ammo getting lost along the way. If I spend a bunch of money to travel for a hunt, I'll spend an extra couple dollars and minutes to make sure that my ammo is either packed or has been shipped ahead to my destination.