.270 AR Build

[yorketransport]

No I'm making a point based on the limits of this platform.

First hand experience can not trump the physical limits of bullets or the AR-15.

You can't break that AR-15 wall which is why there are trade-offs with all these bullets.

Hunting at 5 or 600 yards is a can of worms in itself because of wind drift. But I would not use an AR-15 in that scenario because there are better tools for the job. Well that goes back to my first point which is that I wouldn't use a wildcat for typical hunting ranges since like I said the deer wouldn't notice the difference. Actually has nothing to do with 270 or 6.8 specifically. Wildcats come with their own trade-offs for better or worse.

So quantifiable data isn't relevant? Actual first hand experience is the only thing that matters in the real world. The AR platform is certainly limited, but it's hardly crippled. This is coming from somebody who really doesn't like the AR!

Bullets are what do the real work when hunting. It doesn't matter which firearm it comes from or what the headstamp is on the case it was fired from. There are a variety of excellent hunting rounds available in the AR 15 platform, but some of them are handloader only options. The BR, BRX, Dasher, Grendel, Nosler and Hagar cases have all been tweaked and modified in a variety of ways to offer improved performance within the limitations of the AR 15. Then you can get into the more involved wildcats like some of the ones offered by AR 15 Performance, Tromix and Mad Dog Weapons systems. I have two reamers drawn up for wildcats desinged to max out the performance out of actions the size of an AR-15, including the CZ 527, Howa Mini action and the Ruger American mini action.

As far as using a wildcat for general hunting, that's possibly the most absurd thing I've heard in a while. I've only killed 2 deer with chamberings that offer factory loaded ammo and I've never killed any animal with factory loaded ammunition, other than shotgun shells. The tool used to propel a bullet has no impact on the terminal performance of the load. A 130gr bullet at 2600 fps has the same ballistics whether it came from a wildcat 270 AR, 270 Win, 27 Creedmoor, 270 Weatherby or even my 27 Boondoggle (downloaded by 1000 fps ). If you personally like bolt action rifles in factory chamberings that fine, but that doesn't make anybody else wrong for using something different or for shooting beyond a range you're personally comfortable with.

[Yondering]

HATE this round. Daughter had awful luck with this while deer hunting. She center punched a whitetail doe and we had no blood. Watched the footage about 1000 times and it was a solid hit. We never found the deer. Few days later she shot another doe and same luck with blood trail. Luckily we found that deer by grid searching. I bought her a 6.5 Creedmore the next day and have never looked back.  I would rather use a friggin sling shot than a 6.8SPC!

While I'm not as fond of the 6.8 as some other AR rounds, still, bullets matter a lot more than headstamps. What you describe above is a bullet choice problem (or dare I say it, maybe a shot placement problem, I wasn't there); the 6.8 cartridge is fully capable of making clean kills on deer.

I fully agree with Yorke on this stuff. I've never used the 270 AR, but have/do use a number of other AR wildcats and pretty much all of them are capable of more than some here seem to think.

I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.

[konradcountry]

The AR platform is certainly limited, but it's hardly crippled. This is coming from somebody who really doesn't like the AR!

I have never called the AR crippled. This is coming from someone that likes the AR.

My point was that you can't wildcat around its limitations. That's partly why there are so many ammo choices. Everyone is trying give and take towards specific needs.

If I wanted a 600 yard hunting rifle I wouldn't look towards the AR15. It isn't a sleight on the AR15 or even an endorsement of 600 yard hunting.

Bullets are what do the real work when hunting. It doesn't matter which firearm it comes from or what the headstamp is on the case it was fired from.

I said wildcats come with a trade-off. I didn't say what it is. I think you took that as some sort of criticism of wildcat performance or hunting use.

That trade-off of wildcats is resale value and dependence on limited manufacturers, and that is if you are comfortable reloading. Has nothing to do with use or performance.

Anyways I just read that the guys who came up with the 270 AR no longer make the barrel. This scenario is really my concern with these niche rounds. People lose interest and then you can't sell it. Now if you don't care about resale or replacing the barrel then fine but for typical hunters that is a major trade-off.

[CoryTDF]

HATE this round. Daughter had awful luck with this while deer hunting. She center punched a whitetail doe and we had no blood. Watched the footage about 1000 times and it was a solid hit. We never found the deer. Few days later she shot another doe and same luck with blood trail. Luckily we found that deer by grid searching. I bought her a 6.5 Creedmore the next day and have never looked back.  I would rather use a friggin sling shot than a 6.8SPC!

While I'm not as fond of the 6.8 as some other AR rounds, still, bullets matter a lot more than headstamps. What you describe above is a bullet choice problem (or dare I say it, maybe a shot placement problem, I wasn't there); the 6.8 cartridge is fully capable of making clean kills on deer.

I fully agree with Yorke on this stuff. I've never used the 270 AR, but have/do use a number of other AR wildcats and pretty much all of them are capable of more than some here seem to think.

I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.

I agree with the bullet problem to a point. The first deer was shot with an SST after much more reading and our own experience I went out and got the V-Max (Which is the last thing I would have thought of) but there was some nice things being said on some forums. Anyway, it was the V-Max that we used when she actually recovered the deer. As for shot placement on the first it was a fantastic shot by all accounts. As I said, we filmed it and had the ability to watch the footage many, many , many times and there was nothing wrong with the placement.

I love AR's and i like all these crazy wildcats. I just think the 6.8 falls short. I know a lot of guys back east like to shoot deer with them and that is great for them. My personal experience says that it is a poor choice.

[konradcountry]

I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.

Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.

Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light?  Tell us how that goes.

[Jolten]

I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.

Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.

Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light?  Tell us how that goes.

A 270 win would need a AR10 platform. And York has had a 270AR built and gave references to his real life experience with the round with real world factual data.

[Yondering]

I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.

Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.

Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light?  Tell us how that goes.

Tell us more then about this wall then. What/where is it? How much power can an AR make and at what distance?

Yeah, there are limits, but I don't think you know what they actually are after reading what you've posted here. Conjecture and theory does not trump experience, contrary to your earlier claim. 

A few of us here have pretty extensive experience with ARs in lots of different wildcat and factory cartridges; we aren't just going by what we've read in gun mags.

The Nemo magnum-length AR was done in 300 WM and 30/06, so it could be set up in 270 if that's what the OP is looking for.

[yorketransport]

The AR platform is certainly limited, but it's hardly crippled. This is coming from somebody who really doesn't like the AR!

I have never called the AR crippled. This is coming from someone that likes the AR.

My point was that you can't wildcat around its limitations. That's partly why there are so many ammo choices. Everyone is trying give and take towards specific needs.

If I wanted a 600 yard hunting rifle I wouldn't look towards the AR15. It isn't a sleight on the AR15 or even an endorsement of 600 yard hunting.

Bullets are what do the real work when hunting. It doesn't matter which firearm it comes from or what the headstamp is on the case it was fired from.

I said wildcats come with a trade-off. I didn't say what it is. I think you took that as some sort of criticism of wildcat performance or hunting use.

That trade-off of wildcats is resale value and dependence on limited manufacturers, and that is if you are comfortable reloading. Has nothing to do with use or performance.

Anyways I just read that the guys who came up with the 270 AR no longer make the barrel. This scenario is really my concern with these niche rounds. People lose interest and then you can't sell it. Now if you don't care about resale or replacing the barrel then fine but for typical hunters that is a major trade-off.

You absolutely can wildcat your way around the original design limitations of an action, that's exactly what we do when wilcating! The AR platform was designed around the 5.56, which is a pretty anemic round. Now there are dozens of ballistically superior options that can be stuffed into the same sized platform. There are just some people who will find a way to fit 8 gallons of stuff in a 5 gallon bucket just to say they can. Some folks just get it, others don't.

The secondary market for wildcat AR barrels is actually really good. I've never had a problem selling a used barrel at a fair price. It doesn't matter if the original manufacturer is still in business as long as it's not based on a proprietary case. Any wildcat that can be formed from a readily available parent case will live on as long as the parent brass is available and somebody can make a set of dies. The 270 AR is based on the 6.5 Creedmoor case and that sucker isn't going anywhere, no matter how much some of us wish it would.

[konradcountry]

I'd sure like to hear more about this "AR15 wall" and the limits of the platform from konradcountry. I think it'll be really helpful for those of us with personal experience in the matter to learn why someone's theories trump what we've actually seen in the field.

Yea I must be making stuff up. No wall with the AR15.

Go ahead and build an AR15 in 270 Win if you think this is all theortical mumbo jumbo. Why bother with 270 light?  Tell us how that goes.

A 270 win would need a AR10 platform. And York has had a 270AR built and gave references to his real life experience with the round with real world factual data.

Yes and that need isn't arbitrary.

These cartridges have limitations because they have to fit into the AR-15 platform. Hence their limitations and inevitable trade-offs. That is the wall they run into.

So now you understand what I was talking about. Next time just ask instead of being rude.

[konradcountry]

You absolutely can wildcat your way around the original design limitations of an action, that's exactly what we do when wilcating! The AR platform was designed around the 5.56, which is a pretty anemic round. Now there are dozens of ballistically superior options that can be stuffed into the same sized platform. There are just some people who will find a way to fit 8 gallons of stuff in a 5 gallon bucket just to say they can. Some folks just get it, others don't.

I said you can't wildcat around the limitations of the platform and the AR10 market is proof of this. The AR10 market wouldn't exist if you could wildcat anything into the AR15. So there are limitations to AR-15 cartridges that leads to trade-offs. So "new fangled AR15 wildcat" always hits those limitations. It's a game of pick your poison.

The secondary market for wildcat AR barrels is actually really good. I've never had a problem selling a used barrel at a fair price. It doesn't matter if the original manufacturer is still in business as long as it's not based on a proprietary case. Any wildcat that can be formed from a readily available parent case will live on as long as the parent brass is available and somebody can make a set of dies. The 270 AR is based on the 6.5 Creedmoor case and that sucker isn't going anywhere, no matter how much some of us wish it would.

It's a standard risk of the wildcat and has nothing to do with the 270 AR specifically. Maybe the resale value is good today but all it takes is a better or more popular cartridge to devalue what you own. The AR market is pretty saturated right now and uppers in the common hunting calibers (6.8/6.5 gren/300 black) can be found on sale. Like I said it's just a trade off. It doesn't mean it is bad or good or should be taken as a sleight. For some the trade-off is worth it, for others it isn't. For most hunters I would say that the common calibers are the way to go.

[yorketransport]

It's a standard risk of the wildcat and has nothing to do with the 270 AR specifically. Maybe the resale value is good today but all it takes is a better or more popular cartridge to devalue what you own. The AR market is pretty saturated right now and uppers in the common hunting calibers (6.8/6.5 gren/300 black) can be found on sale. Like I said it's just a trade off. It doesn't mean it is bad or good or should be taken as a sleight. For some the trade-off is worth it, for others it isn't. For most hunters I would say that the common calibers are the way to go.

It's not as if somebody puts together a gun in a wildcat or uncommon chambering not knowing the potential trade offs. Of course I've never had any problem selling any style of gun chambered for a wildcat, I typically get a better price than if it were chambered for a common production caliber. Common calibers are the way to go if you're a factory ammo shooter, I'll agree with that. There's no advantage to hunting with common calibers though for somebody who loads there own ammo though. And I don't buy into the fear of traveling for a hunt and the ammo getting lost along the way. If I spend a bunch of money to travel for a hunt, I'll spend an extra couple dollars and minutes to make sure that my ammo is either packed or has been shipped ahead to my destination.