Post by: Russ McDonald on December 09, 2020, 05:51:27 AM
Also how about handing a new hunter say between the age of 8-12, hasn't done a lot of shooting and gets handed a .22 to hunt turkeys. I would say you just made way more difficult for a first time hunter to shot a turkey unless they shoot like Chris Kyle :chuckle: . We came up with an alternate proposal to WDFW is to allow a rim fire season during the general modern firearm rifle season in the open GMU's during the fall turkey season. Remember we use to have a split turkey season in the past before going to the open from September to the end of December. It was October to November plus you would have to wear hunter orange like you do now. That would be the rim fire turkey season. My opinion is that this was a proposal that was a lets write something up and throwing on the wall and see if it sticks. There is another open comments coming up on the proposals in January. So there is still time to comment. I am also open to discussion because of course that is what a forum is.
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2020, 06:00:06 AM
Would the .22 somehow be limited or could you take out a 30 round magazine and let 'er rip?
If it goes through, what would be the difference between shooting nuisance turkeys with a .22 and nuisance geese?
WDFW should be pushing the private lands hunting program more if there is a nuisance problem.
Post by: hunter399 on December 09, 2020, 06:02:44 AM
Sorry but I think it's a good thing youth and all .
How many turkeys get filled with bird shot and run off to die never to be cooked up.
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2020, 06:11:05 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 09, 2020, 06:12:32 AM
Post by: lewy on December 09, 2020, 06:17:32 AM
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2020, 06:20:39 AM
They could also not close turkey season. :chuckle:
Post by: Jingles on December 09, 2020, 06:27:54 AM
Post by: syoungs on December 09, 2020, 06:34:09 AM
if this was truly about making a better situation for hunters, I would stand behind it. This is about appeasing landowners though. If they want turkeys shot and hazed off their properties, then let us have some access! I feel no sympathy for the landowners complaining, when a couple guys show up from out of town to inject some cash into the economy and hunt a few birds, but cannot get access onto the properties holding the animals. Let us have access, and people will come take care of business.
If they do allow for this, I would love to at least see it modified for a shorter season that coincides with modern firearm seasons, not a free for all. I already almost get shot often enough with some of the idiots that roam the woods, this will make it even worse.
Post by: birddogdad on December 09, 2020, 06:54:01 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 09, 2020, 07:01:57 AM
Honestly I'm for it .I agree with bringing more youth into hunting but using a .22 fir a first time hunter with not much experience on a gun. I would want to get them in close but if you do that then why not use a shot gun? Yup turkeys are tough SOB's and there will always be wounded animals with any type of hunting. I don't want there to be but stuff happens. I would think that you would have more of a chance with a shotgun than a .22.
Sorry but I think it's a good thing youth and all .
How many turkeys get filled with bird shot and run off to die never to be cooked up.
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Post by: ne kid on December 09, 2020, 07:09:15 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 09, 2020, 07:16:41 AM
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Post by: ghosthunter on December 09, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
Increase the season.
Increase the harvest
Get more property opened up.
Longer season for anyone 21 or younger. Give this group two weekends or a month.
One weekend for youth is a joke. :twocents:
Post by: Turkeyman on December 09, 2020, 07:39:25 PM
Post by: Stein on December 09, 2020, 07:47:43 PM
Not for it.
Increase the season.
Increase the harvest
Get more property opened up.
Longer season for anyone 21 or younger. Give this group two weekends or a month.
One weekend for youth is a joke. :twocents:
:yeah:
Glad to hear WDFW has been scratching their heads on how to increase opportunity for the hordes of fall squirrel hunters in eastern WA. :chuckle:
So many ways to do this that could create actual opportunity. This could backfire as landowners might be much more leery of allowing the public on their property shooting rifles over arrows and shot. Worst case, they word it incorrectly and allow all rimfire, not just .22 LR.
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 09, 2020, 07:48:11 PM
Trap and transfer problem solved.That is another sore subject with me. Sat with our old bio to write up an SOP for this but it got put on desk and nevwr seen again.
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Post by: Turkeyman on December 09, 2020, 07:59:16 PM
Post by: Birdguy on December 09, 2020, 08:44:31 PM
Been there done that. Very frustrating. That’s why a lot of folks got out of the NWTF chapters. They don’t want turkeys in this state plane and simple. It’s sad that we can’t work together.
:yeah: :yeah: Yep, was there for the end of the trap and transfer program. Was an officer in the local chapter for years, was there for the lies of no free tag with small game, double the cost of the other tag and we will have a turkey management plan to manage and grow the population........ They got the free tag eliminated (not a bad thing overall) and tags from $7.50 to $15 but not one bit of effort from our WDFW to manage and grow the turkey population. Thankfully several good winters and springs have helped tremendously.
As for the rim-fire deal....we are hunters, we have rules, we have ethics (most of us) and this is one of those things that "may" bring more into the sport but not in the same way we that love it believe it should be. Does not remove the perceived added risk that method could bring. To me calling a turkey is the rush!! I love it, I cannot see the use of a rimfire for me, that said when my dad was alive he could have never hiked and sat and hunted turkeys with us, but give him the .22 he used on farm for crows and he could have done well if I could have got him within 100 yds. I see folks using rimfire distances to shoot over or past shot gunners calling, based on what I see and hear about fellow deer hunters on public ground, or the guys who "own" release sites on the west side it sounds like more problems than benefits :twocents:.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 09, 2020, 09:17:31 PM
I honestly think this is likely 95% about landowners and 5% about helping hunters on a small game multi species hunt. WDFW should really be encouraging landowners to enroll in the private lands hunting program if they have turkey problems.
They could also not close turkey season. :chuckle:
Agreed, mostly. I see the so-called nuisance birds; it ain't hunting, IMO. They are in people's front yards and pastures. This would be great for landowners, not so much for hunters.
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 04:09:31 AM
Been there done that. Very frustrating. That’s why a lot of folks got out of the NWTF chapters. They don’t want turkeys in this state plane and simple. It’s sad that we can’t work together.Not sure I follow you there? The NWTF wants to trap and transport. The WDFW ties our hands on what we can do because they regulate what we can ans can't do. It is their laws and mandates. The SOP we wrote was for WDFW. Also the state of WA hasn't had a turkey plan in over 10 years. They let it expire. This has been one of my one of my goals as the state chapter president to get a new turkey plan written. I have been pounding on that door at WDFW but no answer. The meetings I have with the state I know they don't like turkeys. Most bios for fed and state could care less. They consider them a non native bird and we should just get rid of them. There are a few that do want them around but very few. Oh by the way the state has been trapping and moving birds. They just aren't telling anyone. I have told them in the past if you want more participation in hunting turkeys make a effort to show you want to manage like trap and transport. Make it public it would be a PR dream for hunting turkeys.
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Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 05:23:06 AM
You should know your target and what's beyond it whether it's a shotgun or a 22 .
So am I to assume Turkey hunters are taking risky shots all the time with there shotguns,but then in the same sentence you don't want 22 because we should be ok with that.
They are also proposed 22 for grouse ,you all ok with that even smaller target to hit.
The safety issue with it is B.S. ,know your target and what's beyond it.
Turkey population will never be effected with this rule change NE Washington is riddled with private patches that hold many turkeys that most of us will never get to hunt.
I'm ok with 22 for fall Turkey and grouse for fall seasons.
I Agree with some comments here that this is about land owners ECT.But bag limits and all that still apply. Even for a land owners.They could increase bag limits I'm all right with that too.
But the safety aspect I'm not ok with that,it's up to the hunter to know what's beyond his target with whatever weapon he is hunting with period.
Post by: NW SURVEYOR on December 10, 2020, 05:43:40 AM
It's my opinion that most people can't head shoot a turkey at 50 yards with a .22.
Also, if these landowners (LO) want to control turkeys, let kids hunt their property under adult supervision with a scattergun.
No gun for the adult, only the kid, the LO can dictate this if he wants.
The State may be able to negotiate this with the LO which would benefit the LO and give kids more opportunity for success.
This would minimize the number of people on certain lands, expand opportunities for kids and perhaps give the LO the feeling of having helped the public.
As for the .22 issue, I think it's dangerous, would harm more turkeys and not well thought out.
Have a nice day.
Rob.
Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 05:49:11 AM
When you use your bow to hunt turkeys do you head shot them. :dunno:
Are all you guys under the rug thinking the only way a turkey dies is with a head shot.
:dunno:
From a shotgun yes headshot is almost required.Other weapons not so much.
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 06:01:11 AM
I don't see heart or lung shooting a turkey with a .22 as a high probability shot.
Regarding safety, we should also know our target and beyond big game hunting but still wear orange because it's awfully hard to see people in camo who aren't moving, especially when we are looking through the scope at a game animal.
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 06:02:09 AM
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Post by: idaho guy on December 10, 2020, 06:07:46 AM
Post by: Jingles on December 10, 2020, 06:24:21 AM
Many turkeys will fly away with 22 bullets in them. shotgun all you need is a few pellets in the head. It will be more dangerous and not everyone is responsible with a weapon in the woods or they just weren’t even taught or raised around guns to even understand safety. It will be WAY more difficult for youth and new hunters to effectively take Turkey with a 22 over a shotgun. I have been around kids where it’s legal and seen firsthand it’s not effective for young or new hunters. Experienced hunters with a scoped 22 lr will stack turkeys up like cordwood in the fall. I don’t hunt turkeys in Washington so it’s nothing to do with me but you will end up with a lot more wounded Turkey walking around and there will be hunters that make it dangerous for others.Sorry idahoguy but I have to disagree with you statement about experienced hunters with a scoped 22 stacking turkeys up like cord wood and reason being I have seen what those supposedly experienced hunters shoot like at the local range.set up a 6 inch paper plate at 100 yards and if they hit 3 times regardless where on the plate call it good enough. Now if they were hitting raw eggs laying flat maybe they could but from what I have seen a good majority couldn't hit an orange and have no idea what shooting the heart beat means and turkeys are not going to stand and pose for head shots while someone gets all nestled in for a solid non moving shot
Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 06:39:58 AM
I'm ok with a 22 or a 17 .
Preach the wounded Turkey thing but I've seen many of Turkey shot with bird shot only not in the head a run off ,fly off happens in every hunting situations with different weapons.
Any turkeys you guys think your saving in northeast WA will be eaten by predators anyway.Thats the real reason you will see them flocked up in the field next to your local farmers house on private land right now.
And yes a turkey broad head is big .22 mag,22lr,17hmr,also 4 times faster then any arrow ,eat right up the hole ,no bird shot to worry about.
Stacking turkeys up like cord wood really ,still a bag limit,I hear comments like that it makes me think the real reason is you all want to limit oppertunitty in the fall ,cause the spring seasons are so important.
What happens many times is hunter will be against this option ,then WDFW will have to trap,kill,or issue land owners permits to harvest and the turkeys will die one way or another.And you limited your hunter opportunity to save a few birds that won't be there anyway.
I'm done with comments ,always a different way of looking at it.Put my two cents in which I admit isn't much.
If it goes through I will let my son hunt with his 22mag.
For fall seasons.I don't Turkey hunt anymore.But I buy my son's tag every year .And will continue changed or not.Im kinda like the call man every spring and enjoy doing my small part like that. So not much skin in the game ,but do take part in it every year.
Enjoy your day
Wish everybody good Turkey hunting this spring!
Post by: callturner on December 10, 2020, 07:16:12 AM
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 07:23:33 AM
:mgun:
Post by: ne kid on December 10, 2020, 07:27:07 AM
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 07:30:11 AM
Post by: ne kid on December 10, 2020, 07:34:52 AM
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 07:35:24 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 07:45:09 AM
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Post by: northwesthunter84 on December 10, 2020, 08:32:07 AM
So would they limit this to a long gun or could you legally hunt with a rimfire pistol? That might make a difference.
I also think there should be a restriction to private land use only. There you can control access so you have a better idea of where people are, safety is always my primary concern when hunting whether its turkey or big game.
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 09:01:05 AM
I honestly don't think this will affect the majority of people hunting in the fall. I also don't think a lot of new turkey hunters are going to be pulled in by popping birds with a rim fire that time of year. Really it will increase the likely hood of biproduct take, just like a lot of hunters don't target bear or cougar specifically but they have the tag just in case.Rifle only. There is a pistol proposal out there but I think I didn't get any traction and it was only for pistol that could shoot pellets. Like a judge
So would they limit this to a long gun or could you legally hunt with a rimfire pistol? That might make a difference.
I also think there should be a restriction to private land use only. There you can control access so you have a better idea of where people are, safety is always my primary concern when hunting whether its turkey or big game.
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Post by: northwesthunter84 on December 10, 2020, 09:13:25 AM
Post by: Katmai Guy on December 10, 2020, 09:28:08 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 09:30:43 AM
Sept 1st-Dec 15, either sex(if the intent is to control pop) same requirements as grouse. :twocents:That is the current season. 2 beardless and 2 of either sex and it goes to the end of December. Has been that way for 2 fall seasons now.
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Post by: ne kid on December 10, 2020, 09:51:33 AM
Post by: MR5x5 on December 10, 2020, 10:01:41 AM
Longer seasons
Improved access
I have a hard time sympathizing with a landowner who has a problem but is unwilling to allow access on his own terms.
Post by: ne kid on December 10, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Post by: ne kid on December 10, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 10:36:32 AM
Post by: birddogdad on December 10, 2020, 10:47:33 AM
An air bnb house with turkeys in the yard sounds like a pretty good weekend trip.
will that be coming with a deep fryer pot setup out front?
Post by: idaho guy on December 10, 2020, 11:10:43 AM
Many turkeys will fly away with 22 bullets in them. shotgun all you need is a few pellets in the head. It will be more dangerous and not everyone is responsible with a weapon in the woods or they just weren’t even taught or raised around guns to even understand safety. It will be WAY more difficult for youth and new hunters to effectively take Turkey with a 22 over a shotgun. I have been around kids where it’s legal and seen firsthand it’s not effective for young or new hunters. Experienced hunters with a scoped 22 lr will stack turkeys up like cordwood in the fall. I don’t hunt turkeys in Washington so it’s nothing to do with me but you will end up with a lot more wounded Turkey walking around and there will be hunters that make it dangerous for others.Sorry idahoguy but I have to disagree with you statement about experienced hunters with a scoped 22 stacking turkeys up like cord wood and reason being I have seen what those supposedly experienced hunters shoot like at the local range.set up a 6 inch paper plate at 100 yards and if they hit 3 times regardless where on the plate call it good enough. Now if they were hitting raw eggs laying flat maybe they could but from what I have seen a good majority couldn't hit an orange and have no idea what shooting the heart beat means and turkeys are not going to stand and pose for head shots while someone gets all nestled in for a solid non moving shot
fair enough-probably wrong words -how about experienced hunters who know how to shoot? We have a 22 mag thats dialed in and it even has turrets for elevation. Not saying I am the best shot in the world but we shoot a lot and I think I could stack them up. But I have no desire to shoot that many turkeys in that way :chuckle: and I have never attempted to shoot one with a 22 mag so maybe I couldn't stack them up but it seems easy from my couch! I have no skin in this game I just thought it was an interesting conversation and just some thoughts from what I have seen in action. At the end of the day there is so many turkeys in both north Idaho and eastern Washington they could probably pass any new regs and we will still have more turkeys. I just wish deer and elk would reproduce like turkeys!Wether you appreciate them or dont they really are an amazing success story going from zero to probably too many in a lot of areas. I have really enjoyed the additional spring hunt in Idaho over the years but I dont like to hunt them in the fall anyways
Post by: baldopepper on December 10, 2020, 11:42:33 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 10, 2020, 11:46:55 AM
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Post by: baldopepper on December 10, 2020, 12:01:31 PM
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 12:07:08 PM
Heck, I have a shotgun and enough shells, I might have to wander around over Christmas break and see if I can find one somehow. I have only been turkey hunting twice, but if we don't get cold temps up north then wandering around for turkeys is at least as productive as trying to find ducks over on this side.
Post by: Katmai Guy on December 10, 2020, 12:07:27 PM
Sept 1st-Dec 15, either sex(if the intent is to control pop) same requirements as grouse. :twocents:That is the current season. 2 beardless and 2 of either sex and it goes to the end of December. Has been that way for 2 fall seasons now.
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:chuckle: Shows how much I hunt turkey. Carry on :)
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 05:37:54 PM
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Post by: Bob33 on December 10, 2020, 06:08:25 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 06:10:48 PM
So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.I'm wondering how many guys will try to fill there Turkey tag with there deer rifle ,just saying. :chuckle:
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Post by: Bob33 on December 10, 2020, 06:13:37 PM
Officer, I thought my 30-06 was a rimfire. Isn't it?So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.I'm wondering how many guys will try to fill there Turkey tag with there deer rifle ,just saying. :chuckle:
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Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 06:21:22 PM
Or the old I haven't seen no deer today ,but I think I can wing this Turkey.Or I can hit this Turkey with my 22 pistol from 100 yards.Officer, I thought my 30-06 was a rimfire. Isn't it?So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.I'm wondering how many guys will try to fill there Turkey tag with there deer rifle ,just saying. :chuckle:
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I think it's a start ,would of liked to see it the entire fall season .But whatever I don't buy a tag or hunt Turkey anyway just my son.Fall season more of spot and stalk,run and gun type season anyway.
Post by: Dan-o on December 10, 2020, 06:33:17 PM
Officer, I thought my 30-06 was a rimfire. Isn't it?So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.I'm wondering how many guys will try to fill there Turkey tag with there deer rifle ,just saying. :chuckle:
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It's 2020.
Officer, my 30-06 identifies as a rimfire."
Post by: Stein on December 10, 2020, 06:43:03 PM
"Rimfire" includes not only 22s but also hotter cartridges like the 17 WSM.
Yeah, .58 Gatling is rimfire too. I think WDFW used a term "rimfire" that isn't super well defined.
Reloading bigger bore rimfires would be a big challenge, but there is info and equipment to reload .32 and .41 rimfire with blank primers. The firing pin catches the edge of the primer and it's apparently enough to set it off. I'm sure a bored gunsmith could figure out how to rig a "rimfire" bolt that happens to catch the edge of a primer. Start with 6.5 Creedmoor in the Lapua brass that uses a large primer... Turkeys at 900 yards.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hlebooks.com%2F32rfkit%2FIMG_4751.jpg&hash=2e30fde725f921d3aa15ab7d9722a8d4472bb4e7)
2.34mm
4mm
.14 Alton Jones
.17 Mach 2
.17 Hornady Magnum
.17 PMC/Aguila
.17 Winchester Super Magnum
5mm
5 mm Remington Rimfire Magnum
.22 Short
.22 Long
.22 Extra Long
.22 Long Rifle
.22 WMR
.22 WRF
.22 ILARCO
.22 CB
.22 BB
.22 Remington Automatic
.22 Winchester Automatic
6mm Flobert
.25 Short (.25 Bacon & Bliss)
.25 Stevens
.25 Stevens Short
.267 Remington
.277 rimfire
.30 rimfire
.310 Remington Skeet
.31 Eley
.32 rimfire
.340 rimfire revolver
.35 Allen
9mm Flobert (Rimfire Shotgun Shell)
.38 rimfire
.41 Short
.41 Swiss (10.4x38R rimfire)
.42 Allen
.44 Short & Long
.440
.442 Eley
.44 Henry
.45 Danish
.46 rimfire (.46 Extra Short, Short, Long, & Extra Long)
.50 Remington Navy
.50 Government
14x33mm Wänzl
.56-46, 56-50, 56-52, .56-56 Spencer
.58 Gatling
.58 Joslyn carbine
.58 Mont Storm
.58 Miller
1" Gatling (one specimen known)
Post by: MHWASH on December 10, 2020, 06:55:48 PM
So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.
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I think this is the wrong way to go about it. It’s already been stated that there are lots of unethical and unsafe hunters during the deer and elk seasons.
If the rimfire season was put towards the end of the season, that’s when I believe you would have the more dedicated, and safer hunters out there.
Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 07:27:06 PM
So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.
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I think this is the wrong way to go about it. It’s already been stated that there are lots of unethical and unsafe hunters during the deer and elk seasons.
If the rimfire season was put towards the end of the season, that’s when I believe you would have the more dedicated, and safer hunters out there.
I totally agree MHWASH
They played the safety card,that rimrire was a huge safety issue ,so they got the season put in with deer elk modern season so people have to wear orange ECT. I really don't think the safety card was well thought out.But is what it is.
And at the end of the day nussianse turkeys will still be a problem,kill permits will still be issued.
You still have a reduced hunter oppertunitty.
Instead of just letting the rule change go through and remind people in the regs be aware of your target and what's beyond it. We are now stuck with even more people out during moderm firearm.
Let's create a whole new season of 22 Turkey hunts right in the middle of deer season.
WHOOOOOO GO TEAM! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 10, 2020, 08:22:13 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 10, 2020, 08:41:26 PM
So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.So I may have read it wrong but this is what they sent me "At this time, we’re planning to adjust the proposal to allow rimfire hunting Oct 15-Nov 15 only" I am gueasing you can still hunt with a shotgun to but still have to wear huntee orange or pink.
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Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
I enjoy turkey hunting and do it every spring, but if I had my way the state would issue a punch card (like a catch record card) for 10 birds at a time and have LONG seasons with very few restrictions.There was a time when your Turkey tag was given to you if you bought a small game licence with your big game licence ,that only ran few years like that .Then you had to pay separate for your Turkey tag and changed reg book to paying separate for tag.It was kinda like a thing to get ya to buy the small game free Turkey tag comes with.
Post by: MtnMuley on December 10, 2020, 08:58:20 PM
I enjoy turkey hunting and do it every spring, but if I had my way the state would issue a punch card (like a catch record card) for 10 birds at a time and have LONG seasons with very few restrictions.
Interesting approach coming from a biologist. So you're telling me that in many parts of the state with far less abundant wild turkey populations than the NE, that you think having punch cards for 10 birds at a time is good management? That's absurd in my eyes. We have a month and a half season in the spring during prime dates to harvest up to 3 birds and a very generous fall season with opportunities for those committed to harvest several more birds. I think the state's turkey management plan is right on par.
Post by: emac on December 10, 2020, 10:04:53 PM
So was just emailed by WDFW they are changing the proposal to have a rim fire only season from October 15 to November 15. Mostly during the modern general firearm seasons. This was a compromise we suggested.Who carries a rim fire during modern season? Doesn't make much sense to me for those dates.
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Post by: The Gobble-stopper on December 10, 2020, 10:41:20 PM
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 10, 2020, 11:59:29 PM
I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.
With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.
There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.
For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).
There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.
Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.
I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.
A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters
I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.
I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.
Post by: huntnphool on December 11, 2020, 12:08:05 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 11, 2020, 04:11:30 AM
Is this all rimfire or .22 specific? My kids can hit a gnats ass at 100 yards with my .17HMRAny rim fire. I believe I have said that somewhere in all of this.
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Post by: Russ McDonald on December 11, 2020, 05:42:28 AM
I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here.I totally agree with what you have have said. Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire. As for better management of turkeys. I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president. We need more trap and transport agreed. The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state. That is the way it has always been. The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game. Water fowl is federal. Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport. Basically used Oregons. We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved. Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen. A little background on turkeys brought into the state. This was way before I even lived in the state. NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state. The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this. At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state. They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it.
I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.
With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.
There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.
For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).
There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.
Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.
I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.
A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters
I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.
I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.
As far as the rim fire. Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there. As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop. It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course. Do people abide by this. I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't. Example although this was during the spring season a couple. One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land. A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot. They peppered both guys. They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right. This incident was posted on the forum. Both guys are ok but would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire. Most likely.
By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall. I use it all the time that I have been out. The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.
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Post by: hunter399 on December 11, 2020, 06:10:45 AM
Then what it's really about is Turkey management and not wanting Turkey hunters to fill there tags in the fall ,so there are more Turkey in the spring.
I don't care about season length,bag limits,and transplanting birds all over the state.
I just don't understand how a simple rule change as of this could not go through .rimfire for grouse is gonna go through so you could of hunted grouse and Turkey before deer and elk modern with one weapon and then went out after modern to hunt grouse and Turkey with one weapon without orange on.How many grouse or Turkey hunter might be predator hunting as well in these time frames and pop a coyote or bobcat that might be following the turkeys.
I'm not gonna carry two rifles Durring modern ,maybe in the truck but not 5 miles into the Bush.You guys made it about as hard as you could to hunt Turkey with a rimfire as you could .Slowing down Hunter opportunities. :twocents: :dunno:
Post by: hunter399 on December 11, 2020, 06:14:42 AM
So do you advocate wearing orange for spring Turkey hunt or fall grouse Rim fire hunting,or should we all stand in the woods in front of our game animals and wait for you to make the call on a safe ethical shot.I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here.I totally agree with what you have have said. Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire. As for better management of turkeys. I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president. We need more trap and transport agreed. The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state. That is the way it has always been. The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game. Water fowl is federal. Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport. Basically used Oregons. We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved. Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen. A little background on turkeys brought into the state. This was way before I even lived in the state. NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state. The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this. At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state. They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it.
I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.
With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.
There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.
For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).
There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.
Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.
I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.
A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters
I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.
I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.
As far as the rim fire. Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there. As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop. It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course. Do people abide by this. I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't. Example although this was during the spring season a couple. One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land. A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot. They peppered both guys. They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right. This incident was posted on the forum. Both guys are ok but would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire. Most likely.
By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall. I use it all the time that I have been out. The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.
Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on December 11, 2020, 06:54:53 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 11, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
Don't personally see too many flocks of grouse hanging around people's houses and feedlots. Kind of comparing apples to orangesWell. They should probably not let people hunt deer with high powered rifles then. since I see deer hanging around people's houses and feedlots.
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 11, 2020, 07:44:27 AM
With that said:
1. Sept 1 - Jan 31
2. Hunter orange required
3. I like the "salmon punch card" idea
4. Aggressive transplanting to Kittitas and Yakima County's
5. People with the last name Blanchard get dibs on all the really big Tom's.....
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 11, 2020, 07:48:41 AM
I agree that most shouldn't be allowed to have a high powered rifle :chuckle:Don't personally see too many flocks of grouse hanging around people's houses and feedlots. Kind of comparing apples to orangesWell. They should probably not let people hunt deer with high powered rifles then. since I see deer hanging around people's houses and feedlots.
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But seriously, I feel its a valid argument. The perceived "threat level" of a rimfire is less therefore people are more apt to do it. Plus a turkey is a lot easier to grab and go vs a deer so the chance of a quick getaway is high. Never underestimate the stupidity of your fellow "hunter" :twocents:
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 11, 2020, 07:58:43 AM
Here is my issue with all of this. There isn't any public ground completely over run with birds. This is absolutely a private land issue with these winter flocks. So landowners complain about turkeys, don't allow hunter access, but then get kill permits that they can then turn around and sell. Happens with turkeys, happens with elk, and happens with deer. So why pass a rule that will only further diminish the limited number of birds that are actually on public? There needs to be actual change and accountability to how this state approaches private land access. Our written permission program is an absolute joke. The abuse by many landowners and the complete incompetence by the state to manage the program is insulting. Let's fix this issue before we further deplete OUR resource. Do something meaningful on this front and I'd be all for changes to weapon restrictions (and I'm a turkey purist as someone else coined it).Throw that number 5 out or put McDonald in there :chuckle:. Yes this is all about management. Heck I even has them talked into transplanting birds on the west side staying away from the easterns down in the sw. Merriams are coming over the passes. Snoqualmie and Stevens.
With that said:
1. Sept 1 - Jan 31
2. Hunter orange required
3. I like the "salmon punch card" idea
4. Aggressive transplanting to Kittitas and Yakima County's
5. People with the last name Blanchard get dibs on all the really big Tom's.....
Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on December 11, 2020, 07:59:50 AM
So do you advocate wearing orange for spring Turkey hunt or fall grouse Rim fire hunting,or should we all stand in the woods in front of our game animals and wait for you to make the call on a safe ethical shot.I don't know that you are going to change anyone's mind here.I totally agree with what you have have said. Their proposal now is a season from October 15 to November 15 where you can use rim fire. As for better management of turkeys. I know that I have been fighting that battle with the state the last 5 years as the NWTF state chaoter president. We need more trap and transport agreed. The NWTF can't got out and do that without permission from the state. That is the way it has always been. The state regulates though poorly the management of game animals and upland game. Water fowl is federal. Like I stated before the NWTF bio, another member ans I sat down with the state and wrote out an SOP fir trap and transport. Basically used Oregons. We this because it brought it outaide of the turkey plan so it can be easily approved. Due to the small game person moving this SOP got filed somewhere never to be seen. A little background on turkeys brought into the state. This was way before I even lived in the state. NWTF in coordination with the state bought and transported the majority of the first turkeys brought into this state. The state of WA NWTF went in big time debt to do this. At this point the state has sais they do not want to bring any new birds into the state. They are open to moving birds around but theybare doing that on their own and not telling anyone about it.
I can see both sides of the coin and could argue both ways if I stepped back.
With a rimfire rifle you are able to take a farther kill shot. Just like big game hunting its up to the hunter though to say what's ethical for a shot to take based on their abilities. Same for a shotgun too. How many turkey hunters have actually patterned there shot gun? I know many of us have but I know many haven't. I think your wound/loss is going to be equal.
There are several other states that allow rimfire or air rifle (13 to be exact), including states in the south and on the east coast for fall season.
For nuisance bird it does make complete sense for the landowner (See my rule amendment below).
There is risk of hunter safety but I don't know that it is any greater than with a shotgun. TSS is out to 70yds these days. There are a lot of unsafe shotgun wielding turkey hunters. I personally don't think the risk would increase if rimfire was introduced. I actually can't find a story on google of someone being shot with a single projectile while turkey hunting. You can with a shotgun no doubt and maybe that's because I haven't dug deep enough and the primary choice of weapon is a shotgun so those are the only stories you can find.
Yes a rimfire kicks a lot less for youth. Could they hunt with a rimfire at 50yds v. a .410ga or .20ga at 30yds? Also yes. The accuracy of a tight turkey load is very similar to a single projectile and scope. I personally have wiffed on birds with my shotgun because my load was too tight and the bird to close. Youth should have a mentor hunter with them and that mentor should know there ability. Its actually a great opportunity to teach youth shoot v don't shoot as you would during deer season based on range of animal.
I think the biggest issue with this law is the purest factor of turkey hunters and not as much the safety or wound loss component. If you wanted to get some bi-partisan on it you could put two very simple limitations on it which I've heard one earlier, but I would add another.
A) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY be done on private land
-AND/OR-
B) Rimfire rifle hunting for fall turkey can ONLY by done during modern firearm big game when hunter orange is required for all hunters
I personally am apposed to the adoption of this law and would like to see the turkeys in this state better managed. I wonder what WDFW thinks about pheasants... they're not native. Really most any upland game in this state besides grouse isn't native. But turkeys easily make this state the most money amongst all upland (non-waterfowl) birds I have a hunch so it's impressive they do so little. I would like to see more trap and transplant, lower limits in the fall, one bird a day, etc. etc.
I care to focus more on making sure this change in hunting method is written such the restriction of when it is allowed fall within the intent on why it was introduced.
As far as the rim fire. Inlook atbit this way as stated by other people is I would worry about is the knuckleheads which there are plentynout there. As far as putting in the regs to make sure of your back stop. It is there, it is also part of your hunter safety course. Do people abide by this. I would hope thatbmost of us do but I know some don't. Example although this was during the spring season a couple. One of our hunter ed instructors was out with his buddy on a hunt on public land. A das and his sun were walking along and his dad heard something and told his son to shoot. They peppered both guys. They did not hear the father and son so had know idea they were there if I remembee right. This incident was posted on the forum. Both guys are ok but would the outcome been different during a fall season and using rimfire. Most likely.
By the way turkeys do respond to calling in the fall. I use it all the time that I have been out. The run and gun is not the only method to hunt turkeys in the fall.
Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
If your asking me, I don't. You don't where hunter orange when your duck hunting. Don't even have to wear it during muzzy season and I would say a muzzy has an equivalent range as a rimfire but is much more lethal. There are states and provinces that don't require orange period. I'm with the folks to reduce the amount of orange we have to wear. Make so you only have to wear an orange hat for any hunting that currently requires wearing orange. There are so many ways around this.... I put orange on when I'm walking in the field in the spring. I have a patch that goes on my turkey vest. That patch then goes on a tree or bush that I'm hunting against. There are so many ways to learn and adapt.
I'm just trying to advocate for a middle ground. I could honestly go either way on this. I can sit here and argue for or against it as I think I have. It would not bother me one bit if this went forward. I really think this comes down to a purest factor in "general". The folks most apposed IMO are those that only want to see turkeys "traditionally". Though what is "traditionally" anymore?
Hunting turkey with a rimfire is equally ethical to hunting with a shotgun. It's all about shot placement. You can't make that argument that it's not. Is it ethical to take a 60yd shot with a shotgun? Depends it you've put the time into know. And a turkey load doesn't stop at 40 yds, 80 yds, or even 100yds. The same person would probably tell you that bow hunting isn't ethical.... I would put the wound/loss on bow hunting way above rimfire for turkey. Which then you go to safety... a bow hunter isnt going to shoot someone but a rimfire person will. And round, and round, and round.
Post by: Stein on December 11, 2020, 08:00:14 AM
People have problems with turkeys and don't allow hunting on their property and the state wants the phone to stop ringing with the minimum amount of work and dollars. State issues depredation tags and allows semi-auto rimfire hunting. What do we think is the objective here and what will happen?
The state is pretty good about disguising a stone as a bone and throwing it to license holders. Kind of reminds me of when they allowed barbs back on the big C as a way to get nets back in the water. We are then supposed to run around with glee like we are actually getting something.
Post by: Stein on December 11, 2020, 08:04:12 AM
It's a huge difference, the issue isn't mistaking a person for a turkey, it's not seeing the person even if you are pretty diligent.
Decoys are the big reason turkey hunting is different than other small game or big game.
Same reason most people don't use antelope decoys during rifle season.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 11, 2020, 08:09:43 AM
Post by: birddogdad on December 11, 2020, 08:32:01 AM
Let's be honest here, the proposal has nothing to do with hunting or hunters or improving access or opportunity.
People have problems with turkeys and don't allow hunting on their property and the state wants the phone to stop ringing with the minimum amount of work and dollars. State issues depredation tags and allows semi-auto rimfire hunting. What do we think is the objective here and what will happen?
The state is pretty good about disguising a stone as a bone and throwing it to license holders. Kind of reminds me of when they allowed barbs back on the big C as a way to get nets back in the water. We are then supposed to run around with glee like we are actually getting something.
if this is reality ( and i expect it is), where is wdfw protecting our resources? I had this theme happen in NY state as a teen. watched a big flock of turkeys that were yarded up in a farmers barnyard for winter, i planned and studied how i would be able to get on them legally in the spring. They went from 60+ to less than 10 birds over the winter watching from my school bus. F&G got involved late and stories i read was they watched the farmer open barn doors, turkeys walked in and barn door closed... one way trip... i could see heavy hits to our bird populations by farmers in the same way if not policed totally with birds shot all over and even left wasted... maybe a better solution would be to partner with land owners the NWTF in WA and work get some depredation hunts for us in the fall as "non master hunters"..... kind of ties to other topics on our money given to "hunt by written permission" land owners who hold this for no one to ever gain permissions.. maybe an incentive to those with issues and a correction to programs and removal of those not using for designed now?
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on December 14, 2020, 02:08:27 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 14, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
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Post by: lokidog on December 14, 2020, 09:32:30 PM
As far as the argument of knowing your backstop? Danger range of a shotgun pellet used for turkeys is what, 100 yards? The danger range of a rimfire .22 or .17 is exponentially farther.
Post by: Stein on December 14, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 15, 2020, 02:02:01 AM
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Post by: hunter399 on December 15, 2020, 04:18:17 AM
This is a bad idea because, well, frankly... PEOPLE ARE STUPID!When people say things like that .
As far as the argument of knowing your backstop? Danger range of a shotgun pellet used for turkeys is what, 100 yards? The danger range of a rimfire .22 or .17 is exponentially farther.
You make sound like it's ok to fire a shotgun at someone as long as there" 100 yards "away.
It's ok not to know your backstop cause your using a shotgun .Most Turkey hunting accidents will be caused by this mentally.
I'm sure you don't mean it that way ,but to say people are stupid ,then promote stupid stuff.
Sounds like that saying
The pot calling the kettle black.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Post by: lokidog on December 16, 2020, 05:07:43 PM
This is a bad idea because, well, frankly... PEOPLE ARE STUPID!When people say things like that .
As far as the argument of knowing your backstop? Danger range of a shotgun pellet used for turkeys is what, 100 yards? The danger range of a rimfire .22 or .17 is exponentially farther.
You make sound like it's ok to fire a shotgun at someone as long as there" 100 yards "away.
It's ok not to know your backstop cause your using a shotgun .Most Turkey hunting accidents will be caused by this mentally.
I'm sure you don't mean it that way ,but to say people are stupid ,then promote stupid stuff.
Sounds like that saying
The pot calling the kettle black.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Go away!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 16, 2020, 07:20:03 PM
thats a pretty big stretch on your part there hunter. I don't think anyone interpreted lokidogs comment that way.This is a bad idea because, well, frankly... PEOPLE ARE STUPID!When people say things like that .
As far as the argument of knowing your backstop? Danger range of a shotgun pellet used for turkeys is what, 100 yards? The danger range of a rimfire .22 or .17 is exponentially farther.
You make sound like it's ok to fire a shotgun at someone as long as there" 100 yards "away.
It's ok not to know your backstop cause your using a shotgun .Most Turkey hunting accidents will be caused by this mentally.
I'm sure you don't mean it that way ,but to say people are stupid ,then promote stupid stuff.
Sounds like that saying
The pot calling the kettle black.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Post by: ne kid on December 16, 2020, 08:20:39 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 17, 2020, 02:23:42 PM
My problem with this whole thread is people blaming it on the landowners. How many of you are neighbors to said landowners to know if they allow hunting on their property? I tried to get depredation turkey tags in the past it isn't worth the hassle, and I want nothing to do with WFDW. So I will be airb&b my house all through turkey season next year with turkey hunting access.There is a problem with land owners and WDFW is to blame to. We go out and try to get access from land owners that have complaints of nuisance birds and they don't anything do with with anyone coming on their property. If their were neighbors to said landowners I would think they would also have issues with nuisance birds. It was also brought up in our meeting with WDFW and they agreed about land owners not granting access to hunters.
Post by: TooTallMike on December 17, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
My problem with this whole thread is people blaming it on the landowners. How many of you are neighbors to said landowners to know if they allow hunting on their property? I tried to get depredation turkey tags in the past it isn't worth the hassle, and I want nothing to do with WFDW. So I will be airb&b my house all through turkey season next year with turkey hunting access.
I'd be happy to air bnb there next year! Turkey tags in pocket too. 🙂
Post by: Stein on December 17, 2020, 03:59:37 PM
My problem with this whole thread is people blaming it on the landowners. How many of you are neighbors to said landowners to know if they allow hunting on their property? I tried to get depredation turkey tags in the past it isn't worth the hassle, and I want nothing to do with WFDW. So I will be airb&b my house all through turkey season next year with turkey hunting access.
I'd be happy to air bnb there next year! Turkey tags in pocket too. 🙂
:yeah:
Great DIY solution.
Post by: hunter399 on December 17, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
Sorry may of went a little far fetched on that assumption.If you asked me to go Turkey hunting with ya "100 yards" Disregard for back stop or knowing your target,would be a negative for me to hunt with ya.This is a bad idea because, well, frankly... PEOPLE ARE STUPID!When people say things like that .
As far as the argument of knowing your backstop? Danger range of a shotgun pellet used for turkeys is what, 100 yards? The danger range of a rimfire .22 or .17 is exponentially farther.
You make sound like it's ok to fire a shotgun at someone as long as there" 100 yards "away.
It's ok not to know your backstop cause your using a shotgun .Most Turkey hunting accidents will be caused by this mentally.
I'm sure you don't mean it that way ,but to say people are stupid ,then promote stupid stuff.
Sounds like that saying
The pot calling the kettle black.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Go away!
But will say part of the problem I think may be people are already hunting turkeys this way in the fall.So when you guys are against a rule change as of this, that would help people avoid tickets or stay on the right side of the law.The guys that are hunting Turkey this way in the fall will not stop cause of the safety card or cause you caused the rule change not to go through.
They are already carry a 22 for other small game nobody wants to pack a gun safe on there back.Basicly your just making criminal out of good people that are just trying to fill there tag.
So the safety card is kinda a joke cause this type of behavior has been already happening without accidents.
We all know safety has little to do with this rule change being negative impacted by Turkey hunter.More about Turkey management.
Backseat Turkey management at best.
Trying to keep fall harvest numbers low for the Highly prized spring Turkey hunt.
Post by: Stein on December 17, 2020, 04:36:31 PM
Some of the arguments made here resonate with me, but not that one.
Post by: Limhangerslayer on December 17, 2020, 04:43:28 PM
The state does allow for damage tags to land owners. We have seen up to 10 but in the public records we got it show that alot of them don't get filled or arent reported. Also are harvested by the farmer or family. The rules state that if a land owner gets damage tags they must open up to to allow hunters. The thing with the damage tags is a hunter is only allowed one bird and they are done. Again this is just the damage tag issued to the land owners. If the land owner does allow hunters to hunt their property then supposedly they are not allowed to get damage tags. We are finding that is not happening. We are finding that damage tags for land owners is a cluster.they don’t have to open their land to the public, but if they accept compensation from the state then they do. They can even sell the permits without opening their land. That’s for elk here in the Yakima area, I’d assume it’s the same for any game animal.
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Post by: buglebuster on December 17, 2020, 04:49:00 PM
The state does allow for damage tags to land owners. We have seen up to 10 but in the public records we got it show that alot of them don't get filled or arent reported. Also are harvested by the farmer or family. The rules state that if a land owner gets damage tags they must open up to to allow hunters. The thing with the damage tags is a hunter is only allowed one bird and they are done. Again this is just the damage tag issued to the land owners. If the land owner does allow hunters to hunt their property then supposedly they are not allowed to get damage tags. We are finding that is not happening. We are finding that damage tags for land owners is a cluster.they don’t have to open their land to the public, but if they accept compensation from the state then they do. They can even sell the permits without opening their land. That’s for elk here in the Yakima area, I’d assume it’s the same for any game animal.
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I’ve been apart of many many damage tags in the yakima area for elk and have even taken 3 cows myself. They absolutly cannot sell the damage permit
Post by: hunter399 on December 17, 2020, 04:51:29 PM
So, the argument is that "good people" are poaching every fall, so we should change the law so they can be legal?Well happens all the time marijuana laws may be a good example for ya.
Some of the arguments made here resonate with me, but not that one.
I'm not sure how it got on the table as a rule change but it might be interesting to know. :dunno:
Post by: Stein on December 17, 2020, 04:55:51 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 17, 2020, 05:06:12 PM
No one is out using a .22 to hunt turkeys but i can bet they are using high power rifles during modern fire arm season.So, the argument is that "good people" are poaching every fall, so we should change the law so they can be legal?Well happens all the time marijuana laws may be a good example for ya.
Some of the arguments made here resonate with me, but not that one.
I'm not sure how it got on the table as a rule change but it might be interesting to know. :dunno:
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Post by: Russ McDonald on December 17, 2020, 05:07:40 PM
They can sell access to use the permit, but then they waive rights for damage claims.The stipulation that the state has with land owners is they open up access for hunters for damage tags. Most are harvesting them selves or family only.
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 17, 2020, 05:17:27 PM
they can sure as hell charge a trespass fee that comes with a damage tag though. Don't act like you didn't know that :chuckle:The state does allow for damage tags to land owners. We have seen up to 10 but in the public records we got it show that alot of them don't get filled or arent reported. Also are harvested by the farmer or family. The rules state that if a land owner gets damage tags they must open up to to allow hunters. The thing with the damage tags is a hunter is only allowed one bird and they are done. Again this is just the damage tag issued to the land owners. If the land owner does allow hunters to hunt their property then supposedly they are not allowed to get damage tags. We are finding that is not happening. We are finding that damage tags for land owners is a cluster.they don’t have to open their land to the public, but if they accept compensation from the state then they do. They can even sell the permits without opening their land. That’s for elk here in the Yakima area, I’d assume it’s the same for any game animal.
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I’ve been apart of many many damage tags in the yakima area for elk and have even taken 3 cows myself. They absolutly cannot sell the damage permit
Post by: Stein on December 17, 2020, 05:18:25 PM
They can sell access to use the permit, but then they waive rights for damage claims.The stipulation that the state has with land owners is they open up access for hunters for damage tags. Most are harvesting them selves or family only.
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Quote
Landowners may sell access associated with Landowner LHP permits, but then must
waive the right to claims for wildlife damage. Selling access may also affect landowner
liability as described in RCW 4.24.200 and RCW 4.24.210. It is the responsibility of the
landowner to ensure they are protected against liability claims.
There are two sources of tags, a public draw and the ones given the landowner. They can't sell the tags they are given but can sell the ability to get on the property - so in essence very close to the same thing.
I'm not an expert, just reading what is online. I could be wrong. There is also what is supposed to happen and what actually happens.
Post by: hunter399 on December 17, 2020, 05:42:26 PM
Yes your rightNo one is out using a .22 to hunt turkeys but i can bet they are using high power rifles during modern fire arm season.So, the argument is that "good people" are poaching every fall, so we should change the law so they can be legal?Well happens all the time marijuana laws may be a good example for ya.
Some of the arguments made here resonate with me, but not that one.
I'm not sure how it got on the table as a rule change but it might be interesting to know. :dunno:
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I don't think anybody has hunted or harvested Turkey with a Rim fire. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Just like nobody road hunts,goes behind non motorized gate with ATV,Legal,non legal,ethical stuff that goes on every fall. :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno: I guess you must be right.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 17, 2020, 05:52:01 PM
I don't know, do you think a .22 would be more lethal overall? Vitals on a turkey are pretty dang small..22 LR are good, I thought .22 mag was pretty good too. Some states don't have the gear restrictions as here. In those states you could use centerfires, too; but that was usually a bit overkill. I'd imagine the .204 or .17 rounds would be great for turkeys.
Post by: Stein on December 17, 2020, 05:56:40 PM
The rancher would only pay for dead bodies, so we had to get the more expensive ammo which cut into our profit margins. :chuckle:
That said, I have never hit a turkey with a .22.
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2020, 07:05:20 PM
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
Post by: Special T on December 17, 2020, 07:47:45 PM
I see two problems with this:
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
It would appear that they want to reduce numbers... by increasing harvest...
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 17, 2020, 07:51:52 PM
I see two problems with this:Yup I agree but I highly doubt we will see any more turkeys brought into this state. The state was abaolutley against that the last time we all talked about it.
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
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Post by: hunter399 on December 17, 2020, 08:25:31 PM
I just want to go over this.I see two problems with this:Yup I agree but I highly doubt we will see any more turkeys brought into this state. The state was abaolutley against that the last time we all talked about it.
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
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22lr very poor choice won't kill a turkey even a body shot.
22 mag will stack turkeys like cord wood.
410 is the best youth option for turkeys.
WDFW won't bring anymore turkeys into our state that has a very sustainable population.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
I see two problems with this:I don't think they are doing this for sport. They want the population reduced.
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
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Post by: Special T on December 17, 2020, 08:46:14 PM
I see two problems with this:Yup I agree but I highly doubt we will see any more turkeys brought into this state. The state was abaolutley against that the last time we all talked about it.
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
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You may have said this previously...Are they also against translocation within the state?
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2020, 09:09:08 PM
I just want to go over this.
22lr very poor choice won't kill a turkey even a body shot.
22 mag will stack turkeys like cord wood.
410 is the best youth option for turkeys.
WDFW won't bring anymore turkeys into our state that has a very sustainable population.
Sure let's go over this.
22 is a poor choice for body shot. They are not crows. You can find videos of them running off after being shot with a 1.5 inch blade. Most people will aim for the body.
I can hit a turkey sized target at 100 yards with a 22 mag. Yes that is unsporting as everyone else would have to get closer.
Yes 410 is the best option for youth. It's low recoil and tungsten shot has improved its range.
Was talking about Easterns as in the subspecies. Not Eastern Washington. No they do not have a sustainable population.
Post by: hunter399 on December 17, 2020, 10:00:07 PM
Sure we canI just want to go over this.
22lr very poor choice won't kill a turkey even a body shot.
22 mag will stack turkeys like cord wood.
410 is the best youth option for turkeys.
WDFW won't bring anymore turkeys into our state that has a very sustainable population.
Sure let's go over this.
22 is a poor choice for body shot. They are not crows. You can find videos of them running off after being shot with a 1.5 inch blade. Most people will aim for the body.
I can hit a turkey sized target at 100 yards with a 22 mag. Yes that is unsporting as everyone else would have to get closer.
Yes 410 is the best option for youth. It's low recoil and tungsten shot has improved its range.
Was talking about Easterns as in the subspecies. Not Eastern Washington. No they do not have a sustainable population.
22lr shot placement something you seem to have with a 22mag and not a 22lr.
22mag you say you have shot placement.
But it's unsportsman like-thats a matter of opinions.
410 is a great youth caliber,just like 22lr,22mag,and any other Rim fire most youth learn to shot first .But with ANY firearm ,safety rules taught in hunters ed-and by parents still apply.Myself I would grab a Rim fire over a 410
Most expensive shells on the planet is what you get with a 410 .If you can find them this Turkey season.just my opinion.
Eastern sub spices well maybe they could have more time and money to deal with it.If they could deal with some of the problem birds in the northeast by passing a simple rule change.
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2020, 11:29:25 PM
22lr shot placement something you seem to have with a 22mag and not a 22lr.
What I can shoot and what the public will shoot given the legalities are two different matters.
If you legalized 22lr most shots on turkeys would be to the body. That is the reality.
Legal 22 = more lost birds.
But it's unsportsman like-thats a matter of opinions.
Well yes there is no scientific or legal definition or sportsmanlike. But 22 mag hunters with a scope would have an advantage over shotgun hunters. So now you are giving out advantages....why? This doesn't make any sense.
Most expensive shells on the planet is what you get with a 410 .If you can find them this Turkey season.just my opinion.
Relative to other turkey hunting costs they are minor. Even at $5 a shell.. so what? You spend way more in gas and food. When you finally get on a group of turkeys you don't care about 5 dollars a shot. Anyone trying to save money by hunting turkeys should not be hunting turkeys. Butterball is the low budget option.
Eastern sub spices well maybe they could have more time and money to deal with it.If they could deal with some of the problem birds in the northeast by passing a simple rule change.
The whole thing smells of BS. What farmer can't afford a Wally World shotgun to deal with problem turkeys? How many farmers have a 22 but not a shotgun? This doesn't make any sense. This just comes from unethical land owners that want to mow down a flock of turkeys with a 10/22 even if half run off to the woods.
There are already programs for land owners with problem turkeys. Eastern populations are the problem, not Eastern Wa farmers with too many turkeys.
Post by: ne kid on December 18, 2020, 12:48:40 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 18, 2020, 04:45:43 AM
Trapping and translocation is a sticky subject. They say no but they are doing in and around Spokane and then relocating them north of Spokane and west but not far. There has been no turkey plan in place for this state in 10 plus years. So no management plan of birds. When we sat with them 5 years ago and started on a trap and transport SOP we made suggestions of the Yakima Valley. I even had them thinking about the NW part of the state. Department turn over and that SOP disappeared.I see two problems with this:Yup I agree but I highly doubt we will see any more turkeys brought into this state. The state was abaolutley against that the last time we all talked about it.
22 is not enough for a body shot on a turkey. They are tough and don't leave good blood trails.
If you allow rimfire then people will shoot them with scoped 22 mags. Not very sporting.
I also don't see how this would help get kids involved. A kid is better off with a 410 and you can get one for under 200.
Just not seeing it.
I'd like to see some proposals to improve the eastern populations.
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You may have said this previously...Are they also against translocation within the state?
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Post by: Russ McDonald on December 18, 2020, 05:41:25 AM
Post by: hunter399 on December 18, 2020, 06:15:45 AM
So now what I'm getting is.22lr shot placement something you seem to have with a 22mag and not a 22lr.
What I can shoot and what the public will shoot given the legalities are two different matters.
If you legalized 22lr most shots on turkeys would be to the body. That is the reality.
Legal 22 = more lost birds.But it's unsportsman like-thats a matter of opinions.
Well yes there is no scientific or legal definition or sportsmanlike. But 22 mag hunters with a scope would have an advantage over shotgun hunters. So now you are giving out advantages....why? This doesn't make any sense.Most expensive shells on the planet is what you get with a 410 .If you can find them this Turkey season.just my opinion.
Relative to other turkey hunting costs they are minor. Even at $5 a shell.. so what? You spend way more in gas and food. When you finally get on a group of turkeys you don't care about 5 dollars a shot. Anyone trying to save money by hunting turkeys should not be hunting turkeys. Butterball is the low budget option.Eastern sub spices well maybe they could have more time and money to deal with it.If they could deal with some of the problem birds in the northeast by passing a simple rule change.
The whole thing smells of BS. What farmer can't afford a Wally World shotgun to deal with problem turkeys? How many farmers have a 22 but not a shotgun? This doesn't make any sense. This just comes from unethical land owners that want to mow down a flock of turkeys with a 10/22 even if half run off to the woods.
There are already programs for land owners with problem turkeys. Eastern populations are the problem, not Eastern Wa farmers with too many turkeys.
22lr =more run off birds
22 mag is a magic Turkey killing machine/ too much advantage.
If you can't afford 410 shells- you shouldn't Turkey hunt and pound sand.
Farmers are the problem and want to kill the turkeys and leave them lay.
WDFW should deal with population declines and leave NE farmers hanging.
I'm just gonna throw this out there I don't really see a whole lot of difference between rimfires if your a bad shot birds are gonna run off.
Advantage over shotgun hunters/ cost of ammo
This is for fall season only ,when many people already carry a Rim fire for small game.I have not heard any talk about shooting grouse with a Rim fire ,it's a smaller target,grouse are on the decline supposedly but that's ok. The only advantage is giving someone who might already be in the woods with a Rim fire the option of buying a turkey tag .
Yes 410 is a great youth caliber,but with youth target practice is also needed,cost of ammo is a factor in the Times we are in.And to say they can't afford it they can pound sand doesn't help the future of hunting.Makes it a rich and elite dying sport.When people just want dinner on the table.
In the eyes of WDFW I don't think this has anything to do with farmers ,most farmers have Rim fire and shotgun.
This has to do with selling more tags and taking care of more problem Turkey at the same time.
Which in turn gives more opportunity to the hunter instead of the farmer/private land owner and you all are against it.
Post by: hunter399 on December 18, 2020, 06:30:41 AM
Here is just a thought. I have hunted fall season on some of the private farm lands. I see how the turkeys flock together. If you want to get rid of birds you can flock shoot. Pretty sure that happens. You can easily take out 2-4 birds in one shot. Example my wife first time hunter 20 gauge Benelli. Using Hevi-Shot Magnum blend. One shot 2 birds down. Don't see how you could do that with a .22. Like I have stated before. We would take our kids out shooting I would hope the are ethical and safe hunters. I have seen kids come through a hunter safety course and their parents don't hunt. Want a voice in turkey management in the state join the NWTF. We are the only ones here that are trying to get management of turkeys in the forefront and not on the back burner with WDFW.All I can say is with gaining oppertunitty,and adding more hunters to Turkey hunting to the state you gain more management .More money WDFW makes the more likely they are to manage Turkey numbers.By turning down this proposal you are not gaining anything on the management side.
I'm not gonna buy a fall tag.I might of considered it with Rim fire fall season.
Basically you don't add support by taking away opportunity.
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 18, 2020, 06:37:13 AM
I guess I must not have heard what I heard. I was part of a meeting between Washington state NWTF which I am the president and the WDFW on this. It was very much about nuisance birds and land owners. I was hoping it wasn't and they had more incite on why they wanted the rule change. I am not speculating or guessing I am telling you all exactly what I heard. My vice president and NWTF bio that were both in the meeting both agreed on the same thing that is was about nuisance turkeys. I don't mind everyone's opinions and I welcome them. I bring them up in meetings that I have with the agency.So now what I'm getting is.22lr shot placement something you seem to have with a 22mag and not a 22lr.
What I can shoot and what the public will shoot given the legalities are two different matters.
If you legalized 22lr most shots on turkeys would be to the body. That is the reality.
Legal 22 = more lost birds.But it's unsportsman like-thats a matter of opinions.
Well yes there is no scientific or legal definition or sportsmanlike. But 22 mag hunters with a scope would have an advantage over shotgun hunters. So now you are giving out advantages....why? This doesn't make any sense.Most expensive shells on the planet is what you get with a 410 .If you can find them this Turkey season.just my opinion.
Relative to other turkey hunting costs they are minor. Even at $5 a shell.. so what? You spend way more in gas and food. When you finally get on a group of turkeys you don't care about 5 dollars a shot. Anyone trying to save money by hunting turkeys should not be hunting turkeys. Butterball is the low budget option.Eastern sub spices well maybe they could have more time and money to deal with it.If they could deal with some of the problem birds in the northeast by passing a simple rule change.
The whole thing smells of BS. What farmer can't afford a Wally World shotgun to deal with problem turkeys? How many farmers have a 22 but not a shotgun? This doesn't make any sense. This just comes from unethical land owners that want to mow down a flock of turkeys with a 10/22 even if half run off to the woods.
There are already programs for land owners with problem turkeys. Eastern populations are the problem, not Eastern Wa farmers with too many turkeys.
22lr =more run off birds
22 mag is a magic Turkey killing machine/ too much advantage.
If you can't afford 410 shells- you shouldn't Turkey hunt and pound sand.
Farmers are the problem and want to kill the turkeys and leave them lay.
WDFW should deal with population declines and leave NE farmers hanging.
I'm just gonna throw this out there I don't really see a whole lot of difference between rimfires if your a bad shot birds are gonna run off.
Advantage over shotgun hunters/ cost of ammo
This is for fall season only ,when many people already carry a Rim fire for small game.I have not heard any talk about shooting grouse with a Rim fire ,it's a smaller target,grouse are on the decline supposedly but that's ok. The only advantage is giving someone who might already be in the woods with a Rim fire the option of buying a turkey tag .
Yes 410 is a great youth caliber,but with youth target practice is also needed,cost of ammo is a factor in the Times we are in.And to say they can't afford it they can pound sand doesn't help the future of hunting.Makes it a rich and elite dying sport.When people just want dinner on the table.
In the eyes of WDFW I don't think this has anything to do with farmers ,most farmers have Rim fire and shotgun.
This has to do with selling more tags and taking care of more problem Turkey at the same time.
Which in turn gives more opportunity to the hunter instead of the farmer/private land owner and you all are against it.
I ask you all who is out there hunting grouse with a 22. I guessing very few. I have hunted grouse with a shotgun. If your hunting rabbits I am thinking that there is not a lot turkeys around where rabbits are. Also hunted rabbits with a shogun. At least where I have hunted turkeys in the state I haven't seen rabbits. So using a weapon for multiple game works both ways. As of right now if the rule passes you can use a 22 during general modern firearm season.
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 18, 2020, 06:42:16 AM
I don't see it that way. You get a first time hunter out there with very little time behind the trigger using a 22 and they miss. Stats show they will not continue to hunt if they don't find success. I know you and I would have our kids dialed in. We are not everyone else out in the woods. I think it will be a wash if the rule passes for the amount of new people turkey hunting. You going to get hunters out there that a pretty traditional turkey hunters that will not get a tag for the fall.Here is just a thought. I have hunted fall season on some of the private farm lands. I see how the turkeys flock together. If you want to get rid of birds you can flock shoot. Pretty sure that happens. You can easily take out 2-4 birds in one shot. Example my wife first time hunter 20 gauge Benelli. Using Hevi-Shot Magnum blend. One shot 2 birds down. Don't see how you could do that with a .22. Like I have stated before. We would take our kids out shooting I would hope the are ethical and safe hunters. I have seen kids come through a hunter safety course and their parents don't hunt. Want a voice in turkey management in the state join the NWTF. We are the only ones here that are trying to get management of turkeys in the forefront and not on the back burner with WDFW.All I can say is with gaining oppertunitty,and adding more hunters to Turkey hunting to the state you gain more management .More money WDFW makes the more likely they are to manage Turkey numbers.By turning down this proposal you are not gaining anything on the management side.
I'm not gonna buy a fall tag.I might of considered it with Rim fire fall season.
Basically you don't add support by taking away opportunity.
Post by: walt on December 18, 2020, 07:56:53 AM
Quote
I ask you all who is out there hunting grouse with a 22. I guessing very few.
I hunt grouse with a 22, as does most every hunter I know in the NE corner. I have one in my truck almost everyday from Sept to January. As for turkey in the fall I think being able to use a 22lr is a great idea. Now if they'd just make the tag a reasonable price I may buy more than one a year. $20 to shoot a damn oversized field rat is a bit much. :twocents:
Post by: Stein on December 18, 2020, 08:32:47 AM
Post by: Special T on December 18, 2020, 08:56:53 AM
I kind of surprised everyonenthinks you would use a 22LR for a body shot instead of in the head.
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Post by: konradcountry on December 18, 2020, 11:38:33 AM
Trapping and translocation is a sticky subject. They say no but they are doing in and around Spokane and then relocating them north of Spokane and west but not far. There has been no turkey plan in place for this state in 10 plus years. So no management plan of birds. When we sat with them 5 years ago and started on a trap and transport SOP we made suggestions of the Yakima Valley. I even had them thinking about the NW part of the state. Department turn over and that SOP disappeared.
What do they have to say about Easterns? Are they hoping they just go away?
Could we propose a release in a geographically isolated area?
Post by: hunter399 on December 18, 2020, 01:47:24 PM
Wishing you all Happy Holidays
Thanks for the debate.
Goodluck with your Turkey management NWTF
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 18, 2020, 01:50:29 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 18, 2020, 02:05:17 PM
Hey you guys should tell each other "you're wrong" one more time just in case anyone missed it :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Do you.mean one more time after the last time?
Post by: konradcountry on December 18, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
I normally had a 22 pistol while modern hunting. Also have used my 06 to take off the head of grouse.
I kind of surprised everyone thinks you would use a 22LR for a body shot instead of in the head.
No one is saying that you should use a 22 for a body shot on a turkey.
But that what is people will do, especially kids and farmers.
Farmer Bob will roll down the window and blast a bunch with a 10/22. That is what will happen.
Post by: hunter399 on December 18, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
Just think if I made a power point with graphs,bullet points,and the whole 9 yards.Hey you guys should tell each other "you're wrong" one more time just in case anyone missed it :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Do you.mean one more time after the last time?
At the end of the day everybody's got a different point of view.
Just think how powerful us as hunters could be if we all agreed on something we might actually see change.
Post by: konradcountry on December 18, 2020, 02:31:59 PM
So now what I'm getting is.
22lr =more run off birds
22 mag is a magic Turkey killing machine/ too much advantage.
22 mag is not a magic turkey killing machine. But yes it would be too much advantage to be able to take one at 100 yards.
I have a scoped 22 mag and would never do it even if it were legal. That to me isn't turkey hunting and I would bet that most turkey hunters would agree.
This is for fall season only ,when many people already carry a Rim fire for small game.I have not heard any talk about shooting grouse with a Rim fire ,it's a smaller target,grouse are on the decline supposedly but that's ok.
Grouse are so small that it is common to headshot them so you don't ruin the meat. It becomes either a clean miss or instant kill. But yes you can reliably body shot them with a 22. Not sure what this has to do with turkeys.
Yes 410 is a great youth caliber,but with youth target practice is also needed,cost of ammo is a factor in the Times we are in.And to say they can't afford it they can pound sand doesn't help the future of hunting.Makes it a rich and elite dying sport.When people just want dinner on the table.
410 is making a comeback and the price of ammo is going down. It's better to start them on a shotgun anyways so they can progress to 12 or 20 gauge.
In the eyes of WDFW I don't think this has anything to do with farmers ,most farmers have Rim fire and shotgun.
This has to do with selling more tags and taking care of more problem Turkey at the same time.
Which in turn gives more opportunity to the hunter instead of the farmer/private land owner and you all are against it.
The way to sell more tags is to lower the price of the fall tag, not introduce rimfire during modern. There are already too many hunters on public during modern and we don't need to add kids running around with semi-auto 22s. Far more turkeys would be taken in the fall if they cut the price in half and made it a $6 tag or cut the non-res turkey tag. Deer hunters pass on them all the time because of the price.
Post by: Stein on December 18, 2020, 03:11:16 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 18, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
Happy Holidays to you and your Family and friends.
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello:
Post by: Russ McDonald on December 18, 2020, 04:17:02 PM
Just keeping what we have. Not supplementing the population.Trapping and translocation is a sticky subject. They say no but they are doing in and around Spokane and then relocating them north of Spokane and west but not far. There has been no turkey plan in place for this state in 10 plus years. So no management plan of birds. When we sat with them 5 years ago and started on a trap and transport SOP we made suggestions of the Yakima Valley. I even had them thinking about the NW part of the state. Department turn over and that SOP disappeared.
What do they have to say about Easterns? Are they hoping they just go away?
Could we propose a release in a geographically isolated area?
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Post by: Russ McDonald on December 18, 2020, 04:22:55 PM
If your paying $20 for a turkey tag you must have not bought it here in WA. $15.90 per tag. We actually brought up reducing price of tags or at least reducing the cost of more tags you buy. I think that is a great way to got and totally agree.QuoteI ask you all who is out there hunting grouse with a 22. I guessing very few.
I hunt grouse with a 22, as does most every hunter I know in the NE corner. I have one in my truck almost everyday from Sept to January. As for turkey in the fall I think being able to use a 22lr is a great idea. Now if they'd just make the tag a reasonable price I may buy more than one a year. $20 to shoot a damn oversized field rat is a bit much. :twocents:
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Post by: TheStovePipeKid on December 18, 2020, 05:56:04 PM
If your paying $20 for a turkey tag you must have not bought it here in WA. $15.90 per tag. We actually brought up reducing price of tags or at least reducing the cost of more tags you buy. I think that is a great way to got and totally agree.QuoteI ask you all who is out there hunting grouse with a 22. I guessing very few.
I hunt grouse with a 22, as does most every hunter I know in the NE corner. I have one in my truck almost everyday from Sept to January. As for turkey in the fall I think being able to use a 22lr is a great idea. Now if they'd just make the tag a reasonable price I may buy more than one a year. $20 to shoot a damn oversized field rat is a bit much. :twocents:
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I've been saying for years, to no one in particular, they need a tag package for those of us who fall hunt every year. I love chasing turkey and would buy bulk tags every year if they offered them.
Post by: ne kid on December 19, 2020, 07:05:50 AM
Post by: konradcountry on December 21, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
@konradcountry
Happy Holidays to you and your Family and friends.
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello:
Yea you too
Come turkey hunt with me sometime
Post by: shinyboat on February 03, 2021, 04:43:47 AM
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Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 03, 2021, 05:05:06 AM
Post by: Lokaybinnity on March 02, 2021, 10:09:56 AM
Post by: tgomez on March 06, 2021, 05:57:45 PM
If you want to take the numbers down than lower the tag cost and up the maximum harvest.
Post by: 253shotgunner on March 28, 2021, 01:11:37 PM
The proposed changes expand the legal methods of take for turkey and clarify methods of take for several grouse and rabbit species. The proposed changes establish the use of handguns and rimfire rifles as a legal method for harvesting turkeys with exceptions noted."
Dang handguns and rimfire rifles during fall turkey season? What would be an ethical shot with a 22 lr or 17 hmr rifle on a turkey? I regularly shoot my 22 rifle at 50 yards at the small bore range. I don't have 17 hmr but aren't they 100 yard rifles?
Post by: KFhunter on March 28, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
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Post by: buckcanyonlodge on March 28, 2021, 04:53:37 PM
Post by: Stein on March 28, 2021, 04:55:45 PM
"WAC 220-414-020 Unlawful methods for hunting – Firearms.
The proposed changes expand the legal methods of take for turkey and clarify methods of take for several grouse and rabbit species. The proposed changes establish the use of handguns and rimfire rifles as a legal method for harvesting turkeys with exceptions noted."
Dang handguns and rimfire rifles during fall turkey season? What would be an ethical shot with a 22 lr or 17 hmr rifle on a turkey? I regularly shoot my 22 rifle at 50 yards at the small bore range. I don't have 17 hmr but aren't they 100 yard rifles?
Are 5.56 AR pistols allowed under this?
Post by: GWP on March 28, 2021, 05:05:18 PM
22 for turkey, that's a no for me.
If you want to take the numbers down than lower the tag cost and up the maximum harvest.
Yes on the last. Definitely a HUGE 'NO!' on the first part. I can not imagine how they thought this was a good idea.
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 08, 2021, 12:46:50 PM
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Post by: MtnMuley on April 08, 2021, 12:55:08 PM
Post by: Turkeyman on April 08, 2021, 07:08:07 PM
Post by: 253shotgunner on April 08, 2021, 07:26:25 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 08, 2021, 07:48:10 PM
Post by: Big game archer on April 08, 2021, 08:18:08 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 08, 2021, 09:25:52 PM
Glad to hear that. One of the dumbest proposals I’ve heard of. Bunch of people shooting rimfire rifles around barnyards. What could Go wrong :dunno: :chuckle:Yup,I doubt a farmer or livestock owner should ever use Rim fire around the barnyard. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 06:33:38 AM
So all guys really did is seal there fate. As in the kill permits for private land owners will continue.
Some of that opportunity could of been handed to hunters ,but now it will stay as the private hunt club of kill permits.
Just cause you guys got the proposal shut down ,doesn't exactly mean it's a win-win.
Post by: HillHound on April 09, 2021, 07:27:07 AM
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 08:17:12 AM
Can those private landowners not allow access for shotgun hunting like they apparently would have for rimfire? I totally understand they’re a nuisance in some areas. And more often than not it’s probably areas that the farmers don’t allow public hunting. If they had an easy way for people to sign up And have a group hunting in the morning and in the evening, keep it to a few people each day so it’s organized and the birds will be drove out of the field every time they tried to come in. End of problem and increasing opportunity. Or I suppose we could just let that farmer empty a 30 round clip on the flock out of his 10/22 and let the buzzards clean them upWhat Alot people don't realize is those nussianse birds will die ,shotgun,Rim fire,doesn't really matter weapon you give a private land owner. So how people automatically assume Rim fire is gonna take down herds of Turkey is beyond me.
What the proposal would of done is maybe raised fall harvest rates by HUNTERS,and reduced nussianse permits,So that the farmers didn't get the option for a 15 bird permit.
I do have mixed feelings about it. But no change is fine by me. All it really means is nussianse birds have to be shot by shotgun only ,which honestly if land owner wants them gone ,I don't think anybody's gonna care that they have to use a shotgun.
Oppertunitty for hunters will stay the same. For fall harvest.
At the end of it all nobody really won anything.
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on April 09, 2021, 10:02:08 AM
Post by: baldopepper on April 09, 2021, 10:10:19 AM
Where do I sign up for and receive nuisance permits? How many can I get?I got a little lab retriever, let her run around and the turkeys stay out of the yard. She leaves the deer alone. Have to take down the feeder now. Damn bear has discovered it. Wife likes the bear and seems to be no reasoning with her on dispatching it.
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 10:43:03 AM
Where do I sign up for and receive nuisance permits? How many can I get?Contact you local warden
Show him property damage
Show him ways you have tryed to stop it.
They will most likely give you one.
They will offer up suggestions,call back tell them that didn't work.
Get permit
Hunt turkeys year round.
Your Welcome. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on April 09, 2021, 12:11:07 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 09, 2021, 12:12:34 PM
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Post by: buckcanyonlodge on April 09, 2021, 08:28:36 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2021, 08:55:19 PM
But there is no place locally to transplant birds,that stateland is more than likely already full with them.
Only one place for them to go. 🚽 after you eat them.
Permits would have never changed. Land owner access would have never changed. Rimfire season would not have opened up land owners to others hunting. Rick contact the local nusiance cooridinator because that is what the game warden is going to tell you. The gane warden does not issue kill permits. Also kill permits are not year around there is a time limit. I believe it is only fall up to February. According to their WAC.You might of been expecting to much from a simple weapon change. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Post by: wadu1 on April 09, 2021, 09:48:14 PM
I would like them to trap and relocate them on State land with good habitat so more hunters would have a chance where there are good turkey populations. Does that make sense? They are a nuisance but I kinda like watching them year-round. I see turkey behavior 7 days a week 365 days a year. Turkey knowledge overload. Picture....Please practice Catch and Release turkey hunting.....
[/quote
My question, what is he doing with his fly down :dunno:
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 10, 2021, 05:58:01 AM
I would like them to trap and relocate them on State land with good habitat so more hunters would have a chance where there are good turkey populations. Does that make sense? They are a nuisance but I kinda like watching them year-round. I see turkey behavior 7 days a week 365 days a year. Turkey knowledge overload. Picture....Please practice Catch and Release turkey hunting.....That is being discussed and there are places that we can locate birds. Yakima basin for one. 6 years ago I had them considering the west side up north. The state mandates anything like trapping. The NWTF would love to do it.
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Post by: hunter399 on April 10, 2021, 06:01:32 AM
That would be sweet..... :tup:I would like them to trap and relocate them on State land with good habitat so more hunters would have a chance where there are good turkey populations. Does that make sense? They are a nuisance but I kinda like watching them year-round. I see turkey behavior 7 days a week 365 days a year. Turkey knowledge overload. Picture....Please practice Catch and Release turkey hunting.....That is being discussed and there are places that we can locate birds. Yakima basin for one. 6 years ago I had them considering the west side up north. The state mandates anything like trapping. The NWTF would love to do it.
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Post by: GWP on April 10, 2021, 06:28:41 AM
I would like them to trap and relocate them on State land with good habitat so more hunters would have a chance where there are good turkey populations. Does that make sense? They are a nuisance but I kinda like watching them year-round. I see turkey behavior 7 days a week 365 days a year. Turkey knowledge overload. Picture....Please practice Catch and Release turkey hunting.....
Dude. Uhhh, you just put a picture on here with your fly open... Just sayin'...
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on April 10, 2021, 09:34:25 AM
Post by: hollymaster on April 10, 2021, 09:58:32 AM
Yea , I was expecting a few comments about the fly...My response...what do you think I used for bait??? Trick is to grab them before they grab "YOU".Way too much sharing :yike:
Post by: GWP on April 10, 2021, 11:52:17 AM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: TriggerMike on April 28, 2021, 10:33:19 AM
Post by: TriggerMike on April 28, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 28, 2021, 11:44:19 AM
Post by: Bucks2Ducks on April 28, 2021, 11:45:26 AM
Isn't W side usually Easterns? Thought they handled the rain betterI would like them to trap and relocate them on State land with good habitat so more hunters would have a chance where there are good turkey populations. Does that make sense? They are a nuisance but I kinda like watching them year-round. I see turkey behavior 7 days a week 365 days a year. Turkey knowledge overload. Picture....Please practice Catch and Release turkey hunting.....That is being discussed and there are places that we can locate birds. Yakima basin for one. 6 years ago I had them considering the west side up north. The state mandates anything like trapping. The NWTF would love to do it.
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Post by: TriggerMike on April 28, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 28, 2021, 12:36:47 PM
Post by: TriggerMike on April 28, 2021, 12:41:32 PM
Here’s from the 2021 pamphlet.It was posted online after the regs were already out. Seems like a classic WDFW cluster F happening!
Post by: Russ McDonald on April 28, 2021, 01:17:11 PM
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Post by: TriggerMike on April 28, 2021, 01:48:53 PM
Yes just proposals. Rim was pulled and the increase in limits are being considered but I believe was also pulled. Nothing would have happened this spring anyway.
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Roger that, thanks for the info.