Rim Fire Rifle use during fall turkey season

[Russ McDonald]

Here is just a thought.  I have hunted fall season on some of the private farm lands.  I see how the turkeys flock together.  If you want to get rid of birds you can flock shoot.  Pretty sure that happens.  You can easily take out 2-4 birds in one shot.  Example my wife first time hunter 20 gauge Benelli.  Using Hevi-Shot Magnum blend.  One shot 2 birds down.  Don't see how you could do that with a .22.  Like I have stated before.  We would take our kids out shooting I would hope the are ethical and safe hunters.  I have seen kids come through a hunter safety course and their parents don't hunt.  Want a voice in turkey management in the state join the NWTF.  We are the only ones here that are trying to get management of turkeys in the forefront and not on the back burner with WDFW. 

[hunter399]

22lr shot placement something you seem to have with a 22mag and not a 22lr.

What I can shoot and what the public will shoot given the legalities are two different matters.

If you legalized 22lr most shots on turkeys would be to the body. That is the reality.

Legal 22 = more lost birds.

But it's unsportsman like-thats a matter of opinions.

Well yes there is no scientific or legal definition or sportsmanlike. But 22 mag hunters with a scope would have an advantage over shotgun hunters. So now you are giving out advantages....why? This doesn't make any sense.

Most expensive shells on the planet is what you get with a 410 .If you can find them this Turkey season.just my opinion.

Relative to other turkey hunting costs they are minor. Even at $5 a shell.. so what? You spend way more in gas and food. When you finally get on a group of turkeys you don't care about 5 dollars a shot. Anyone trying to save money by hunting turkeys should not be hunting turkeys. Butterball is the low budget option.

Eastern sub spices well maybe they could have more time and money to deal with it.If they could deal with some of the problem birds in the northeast by passing a simple rule change.

The whole thing smells of BS. What farmer can't afford a Wally World shotgun to deal with problem turkeys? How many farmers have a 22 but not a shotgun? This doesn't make any sense. This just comes from unethical land owners that want to mow down a flock of turkeys with a 10/22 even if half run off to the woods.

There are already programs for land owners with problem turkeys. Eastern populations are the problem, not Eastern Wa farmers with too many turkeys.

So now what I'm getting is.
22lr =more run off birds
22 mag is a magic Turkey killing machine/ too much advantage.
If you can't afford 410 shells- you shouldn't Turkey hunt and pound sand.
Farmers are the problem and want to kill the turkeys and leave them lay.
WDFW should deal with population declines and leave NE farmers hanging.

I'm just gonna throw this out there I don't really see a whole lot of difference between rimfires if your a bad shot birds are gonna run off.

Advantage over shotgun hunters/ cost of ammo
This is for fall season only ,when many people already carry a Rim fire for small game.I have not heard any talk about shooting grouse with a Rim fire ,it's a smaller target,grouse are on the decline supposedly but that's ok. The only advantage is giving someone who might already be in the woods with a Rim fire the option of buying a turkey tag .
Yes 410 is a great youth caliber,but with youth target practice is also needed,cost of ammo is a factor in the Times we are in.And to say they can't afford it they can pound sand doesn't help the future of hunting.Makes it a rich and elite dying sport.When people just want dinner on the table.

In the eyes of WDFW I don't think this has anything to do with farmers ,most farmers have Rim fire and shotgun.
This has to do with selling more tags and taking care of more problem Turkey at the same time.
Which in turn gives more opportunity to the hunter instead of the farmer/private land owner and you all are against it.

[hunter399]

Here is just a thought.  I have hunted fall season on some of the private farm lands.  I see how the turkeys flock together.  If you want to get rid of birds you can flock shoot.  Pretty sure that happens.  You can easily take out 2-4 birds in one shot.  Example my wife first time hunter 20 gauge Benelli.  Using Hevi-Shot Magnum blend.  One shot 2 birds down.  Don't see how you could do that with a .22.  Like I have stated before.  We would take our kids out shooting I would hope the are ethical and safe hunters.  I have seen kids come through a hunter safety course and their parents don't hunt.  Want a voice in turkey management in the state join the NWTF.  We are the only ones here that are trying to get management of turkeys in the forefront and not on the back burner with WDFW.

All I can say is with gaining oppertunitty,and adding more hunters to Turkey hunting to the state you gain more management .More money WDFW makes the more likely they are to manage Turkey numbers.By turning down this proposal you are not gaining anything on the management side.
I'm not gonna buy a fall tag.I might of considered it with Rim fire fall season.
Basically you don't add support by taking away opportunity.

[Russ McDonald]

22lr shot placement something you seem to have with a 22mag and not a 22lr.

What I can shoot and what the public will shoot given the legalities are two different matters.

If you legalized 22lr most shots on turkeys would be to the body. That is the reality.

Legal 22 = more lost birds.

But it's unsportsman like-thats a matter of opinions.

Well yes there is no scientific or legal definition or sportsmanlike. But 22 mag hunters with a scope would have an advantage over shotgun hunters. So now you are giving out advantages....why? This doesn't make any sense.

Most expensive shells on the planet is what you get with a 410 .If you can find them this Turkey season.just my opinion.

Relative to other turkey hunting costs they are minor. Even at $5 a shell.. so what? You spend way more in gas and food. When you finally get on a group of turkeys you don't care about 5 dollars a shot. Anyone trying to save money by hunting turkeys should not be hunting turkeys. Butterball is the low budget option.

Eastern sub spices well maybe they could have more time and money to deal with it.If they could deal with some of the problem birds in the northeast by passing a simple rule change.

The whole thing smells of BS. What farmer can't afford a Wally World shotgun to deal with problem turkeys? How many farmers have a 22 but not a shotgun? This doesn't make any sense. This just comes from unethical land owners that want to mow down a flock of turkeys with a 10/22 even if half run off to the woods.

There are already programs for land owners with problem turkeys. Eastern populations are the problem, not Eastern Wa farmers with too many turkeys.

So now what I'm getting is.
22lr =more run off birds
22 mag is a magic Turkey killing machine/ too much advantage.
If you can't afford 410 shells- you shouldn't Turkey hunt and pound sand.
Farmers are the problem and want to kill the turkeys and leave them lay.
WDFW should deal with population declines and leave NE farmers hanging.

I'm just gonna throw this out there I don't really see a whole lot of difference between rimfires if your a bad shot birds are gonna run off.

Advantage over shotgun hunters/ cost of ammo
This is for fall season only ,when many people already carry a Rim fire for small game.I have not heard any talk about shooting grouse with a Rim fire ,it's a smaller target,grouse are on the decline supposedly but that's ok. The only advantage is giving someone who might already be in the woods with a Rim fire the option of buying a turkey tag .
Yes 410 is a great youth caliber,but with youth target practice is also needed,cost of ammo is a factor in the Times we are in.And to say they can't afford it they can pound sand doesn't help the future of hunting.Makes it a rich and elite dying sport.When people just want dinner on the table.

In the eyes of WDFW I don't think this has anything to do with farmers ,most farmers have Rim fire and shotgun.
This has to do with selling more tags and taking care of more problem Turkey at the same time.
Which in turn gives more opportunity to the hunter instead of the farmer/private land owner and you all are against it.

I guess I must not have heard what I heard.  I was part of a meeting between Washington state NWTF which I am the president and the WDFW on this.  It was very much about nuisance birds and land owners.  I was hoping it wasn't and they had more incite on why they wanted the rule change.  I am not speculating or guessing I am telling you all exactly what I heard.  My vice president and NWTF bio that were both in the meeting both agreed on the same thing that is was about nuisance turkeys.  I don't mind everyone's opinions and I welcome them.  I bring them up in meetings that I have with the agency.


I ask you all who is out there hunting grouse with a 22.  I guessing very few.  I have hunted grouse with a shotgun.  If your hunting rabbits I am thinking that there is not a lot turkeys around where rabbits are.  Also hunted rabbits with a shogun.  At least where I have hunted turkeys in the state I haven't seen rabbits.  So using a weapon for multiple game works both ways.  As of right now if the rule passes you can use a 22 during general modern firearm season.

[Russ McDonald]

Here is just a thought.  I have hunted fall season on some of the private farm lands.  I see how the turkeys flock together.  If you want to get rid of birds you can flock shoot.  Pretty sure that happens.  You can easily take out 2-4 birds in one shot.  Example my wife first time hunter 20 gauge Benelli.  Using Hevi-Shot Magnum blend.  One shot 2 birds down.  Don't see how you could do that with a .22.  Like I have stated before.  We would take our kids out shooting I would hope the are ethical and safe hunters.  I have seen kids come through a hunter safety course and their parents don't hunt.  Want a voice in turkey management in the state join the NWTF.  We are the only ones here that are trying to get management of turkeys in the forefront and not on the back burner with WDFW.

All I can say is with gaining oppertunitty,and adding more hunters to Turkey hunting to the state you gain more management .More money WDFW makes the more likely they are to manage Turkey numbers.By turning down this proposal you are not gaining anything on the management side.
I'm not gonna buy a fall tag.I might of considered it with Rim fire fall season.
Basically you don't add support by taking away opportunity.

I don't see it that way.  You get a first time hunter out there with very little time behind the trigger using a 22 and they miss.  Stats show they will not continue to hunt if they don't find success.  I know you and I would have our kids dialed in.  We are not everyone else out in the woods.  I think it will be a wash if the rule passes for the amount of new people turkey hunting.  You going to get hunters out there that a pretty traditional turkey hunters that will not get a tag for the fall. 

[walt]

I ask you all who is out there hunting grouse with a 22.  I guessing very few.

I hunt grouse with a 22, as does most every hunter I know in the NE corner.  I have one in my truck almost everyday from Sept to January.  As for turkey in the fall I think being able to use a 22lr is a great idea.  Now if they'd just make the tag a reasonable price I may buy more than one a year.  $20 to shoot a damn oversized field rat is a bit much. 

[Stein]

I carry a .22 pistol sometimes in the fall, but never a rifle.  It's a pretty weak argument, they are basically claiming there is an appreciable number of people walking around in the woods in the fall only carrying a .22 rifle, which I can't actually think of a single time I have seen one.  I've seen squirrel and rabbit hunters other times of the year (few and very far between), but I've never actually seen one in the fall.

[Special T]

I normally had a 22 pistol while modern hunting. Also have used my 06 to take off the head of grouse.

I kind of surprised everyonenthinks you would use a 22LR for a body shot instead of in the head.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[konradcountry]

Trapping and translocation is a sticky subject.  They say no but they are doing in and around Spokane and then relocating them north of Spokane and west but not far.  There has been no turkey plan in place for this state in 10 plus years.  So no management plan of birds.  When we sat with them 5 years ago and started on a trap and transport SOP we made suggestions of the Yakima Valley.  I even had them thinking about the NW part of the state.  Department turn over and that SOP disappeared.

What do they have to say about Easterns? Are they hoping they just go away?

Could we propose a release in a geographically isolated area?

[hunter399]

I'm over it said way more then my 
Wishing you all Happy Holidays
Thanks for the debate.
Goodluck with your Turkey management NWTF

[Karl Blanchard]

Hey you guys should tell each other "you're wrong" one more time just in case anyone missed it 

[Dan-o]

Hey you guys should tell each other "you're wrong" one more time just in case anyone missed it 

Do you.mean one more time after the last time?

[konradcountry]

I normally had a 22 pistol while modern hunting. Also have used my 06 to take off the head of grouse.

I kind of surprised everyone thinks you would use a 22LR for a body shot instead of in the head.

No one is saying that you should use a 22 for a body shot on a turkey.

But that what is people will do, especially kids and farmers. 

Farmer Bob will roll down the window and blast a bunch with a 10/22. That is what will happen.

[hunter399]

Hey you guys should tell each other "you're wrong" one more time just in case anyone missed it 

Do you.mean one more time after the last time?

Just think if I made a power point with graphs,bullet points,and the whole 9 yards.
At the end of the day everybody's got a different point of view.
Just think how powerful us as hunters could be if we all agreed on something we might actually see change.

[konradcountry]

So now what I'm getting is.
22lr =more run off birds
22 mag is a magic Turkey killing machine/ too much advantage.

22 mag is not a magic turkey killing machine. But yes it would be too much advantage to be able to take one at 100 yards.

I have a scoped 22 mag and would never do it even if it were legal. That to me isn't turkey hunting and I would bet that most turkey hunters would agree.

This is for fall season only ,when many people already carry a Rim fire for small game.I have not heard any talk about shooting grouse with a Rim fire ,it's a smaller target,grouse are on the decline supposedly but that's ok.

Grouse are so small that it is common to headshot them so you don't ruin the meat. It becomes either a clean miss or instant kill. But yes you can reliably body shot them with a 22. Not sure what this has to do with turkeys.

Yes 410 is a great youth caliber,but with youth target practice is also needed,cost of ammo is a factor in the Times we are in.And to say they can't afford it they can pound sand doesn't help the future of hunting.Makes it a rich and elite dying sport.When people just want dinner on the table.

410 is making a comeback and the price of ammo is going down. It's better to start them on a shotgun anyways so they can progress to 12 or 20 gauge. 

In the eyes of WDFW I don't think this has anything to do with farmers ,most farmers have Rim fire and shotgun.
This has to do with selling more tags and taking care of more problem Turkey at the same time.
Which in turn gives more opportunity to the hunter instead of the farmer/private land owner and you all are against it.

The way to sell more tags is to lower the price of the fall tag, not introduce rimfire during modern. There are already too many hunters on public during modern and we don't need to add kids running around with semi-auto 22s. Far more turkeys would be taken in the fall if they cut the price in half and made it a $6 tag or cut the non-res turkey tag. Deer hunters pass on them all the time because of the price.