Post by: dvolmer on December 15, 2020, 08:12:55 AM
So with one bonus point (bought at time of applying), 2018 odds were BG=100% and D=100%. 2019 odds were BG=77% and D=100%. 2020 odds were BG=68.5% and D=78.2%.
So the question is, as these tags get harder and harder to draw in the future, What will they be in 2021 as another variable is introduced and that being the changes in Idaho that will drive more hunters to find what they think are "Greener Pastures" in other non-resident states like Montana. Im sure other states like Wyoming, Colorado, etc will also be affected.
My guess is that Montana will be down to 50% draw odds or less very soon. Maybe even in year 2021. :twocents:
Post by: Stein on December 15, 2020, 08:21:43 AM
History suggests price changes have little to no impact on numbers of applicants, except for very short term. They either still sell out or bounce right back in a year or two. That said, ID also restricted where you can hunt, so that could change things.
MT is still more expensive and harder to draw a tag and people are less likely to pull up stakes and move to a new area and state where they have to start over from scratch and learn the rules and areas. With ID first, you also would have to pass on ID with the hopes you are able to get a MT tag. The timing of applications has a big impact for people that hunt multiple states.
I would guess the number of people dropping ID and going to MT is much less than the overall number of new people applying every year - either adding MT to whatever they were already doing or new hunters.
Post by: dvolmer on December 15, 2020, 08:28:26 AM
Well, they will likely keep dropping regardless of what ID does.
History suggests price changes have little to no impact on numbers of applicants, except for very short term. They either still sell out or bounce right back in a year or two. That said, ID also restricted where you can hunt, so that could change things.
MT is still more expensive and harder to draw a tag and people are less likely to pull up stakes and move to a new area and state where they have to start over from scratch and learn the rules and areas. With ID first, you also would have to pass on ID with the hopes you are able to get a MT tag. The timing of applications has a big impact for people that hunt multiple states.
I would guess the number of people dropping ID and going to MT is much less than the overall number of new people applying every year - either adding MT to whatever they were already doing or new hunters.
Good insight! I have never been in the Idaho game. Just Wyoming and Montana for me. But I am wondering what the impact of Idaho's changes will have on me in Wyoming and Montana. I agree with you that Wyoming's and Montana's odds are going to get worse on their own but just wondering if the Idaho thing will accelerate that some?
Post by: Stein on December 15, 2020, 08:40:46 AM
If those people decided to hunt MT and they weren't already applying, you could see an additional drop in the chances of drawing an MT tag. Since you have to draw the general tag, every additional person drops the odds for everyone else as opposed to states or animals that don't have general tags.
Tags are getting harder in every state in the west. I'm actually thinking about midwest and eastern states, easy to get tags and plenty of game to chase, having to fly is the only real barrier.
Post by: 7mmfan on December 15, 2020, 08:42:12 AM
Post by: dvolmer on December 15, 2020, 08:54:04 AM
Tags are getting harder in every state in the west. I'm actually thinking about midwest and eastern states, easy to get tags and plenty of game to chase, having to fly is the only real barrier.
Not to be negative Stein, but my son in law tried that this season and went to Kansas with a buck and doe tag. What we Westerners don't realize and take for granted is the public land option. Out here in the west we have tons of public land. Back east, just about everything is private. He had a tough hunt with little to no access. I asked him on what other options he had (paying a trespass fee etc) and he said it was tough because all of the good land was leased to outfitters and they wanted thousands to hunt. But with the proper homework, you could probably find some good eastern states with options. I haven't done that yet but it is def worth looking into.
Post by: Stein on December 15, 2020, 09:02:19 AM
My work has a facility in TX I used to go to all the time, I looked into public hunting there figuring I could add it onto a trip and save big on travel. That research ended quickly. :chuckle:
When I hunt MT and WY, the vast majority of other out of state trucks I see traveled west to get there, not east. I think ID is different though.
Post by: 3nails on December 15, 2020, 10:19:41 AM
Post by: dilleytech on December 16, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Tags are getting harder in every state in the west. I'm actually thinking about midwest and eastern states, easy to get tags and plenty of game to chase, having to fly is the only real barrier.
Not to be negative Stein, but my son in law tried that this season and went to Kansas with a buck and doe tag. What we Westerners don't realize and take for granted is the public land option. Out here in the west we have tons of public land. Back east, just about everything is private. He had a tough hunt with little to no access. I asked him on what other options he had (paying a trespass fee etc) and he said it was tough because all of the good land was leased to outfitters and they wanted thousands to hunt. But with the proper homework, you could probably find some good eastern states with options. I haven't done that yet but it is def worth looking into.
Sounds like Wyoming in my experience. 90%+ private with all private land going to outfitters.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2020, 09:18:37 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 16, 2020, 09:21:29 AM
Post by: High Climber on December 16, 2020, 09:48:54 AM
Post by: MADMAX on December 16, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
No deer there :chuckle:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 16, 2020, 09:53:31 AM
I’ll be in for the first time this year along with a few first time buddies.. no deer tag in Idaho for the first time in 5 years or so
Us too!!!! Not firstime MT but first time in years dropping ID
Post by: Bigshooter on December 16, 2020, 07:33:49 PM
Post by: 3nails on December 16, 2020, 07:45:06 PM
Are you sure that ID will hurt odds in other states? ID is usually everyone's "backup" state. But I have 6 friends that have already bought ID tags that usually would have waited to see if they would have drawn MT first. But they didn't want to take a chance of not drawing MT and then no tags being left in ID so they bought them early.BUT..... They just bumped other hunters over to applying for Montana. I absolutely believe Montana will receive record applicants next year and they will then jack up prices. Idaho was kind of our price buffer but that totally went down the toilet.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 16, 2020, 07:45:51 PM
Are you sure that ID will hurt odds in other states? ID is usually everyone's "backup" state. But I have 6 friends that have already bought ID tags that usually would have waited to see if they would have drawn MT first. But they didn't want to take a chance of not drawing MT and then no tags being left in ID so they bought them early.:yeah: ID has always been the redheaded step child of western hunting. Its for sure gonna add some names into some other states but I don't think its gonna be enough to move the meter significantly :twocents:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 16, 2020, 07:47:40 PM
that was gonna be the case regardless of what idaho did. MT is cool again and they seen some steadily increasing numbers annually.Are you sure that ID will hurt odds in other states? ID is usually everyone's "backup" state. But I have 6 friends that have already bought ID tags that usually would have waited to see if they would have drawn MT first. But they didn't want to take a chance of not drawing MT and then no tags being left in ID so they bought them early.BUT..... They just bumped other hunters over to applying for Montana. I absolutely believe Montana will receive record applicants next year and they will then jack up prices. Idaho was kind of our price buffer but that totally went down the toilet.
Post by: idahohuntr on December 16, 2020, 08:25:28 PM
Post by: opdinkslayer on December 16, 2020, 08:48:38 PM
It will be tough to identify causes of increased applicants...Idaho changing, increasing tolerance of Montana's prices, general increases in all states apps and western big game hunting, covid, the government handing out lots of free checks...too many factors...but we can all safely count on worse odds for every state we apply in. Appreciate any tag you get, and plan accordingly for decreased odds :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: goosehunter12 on December 19, 2020, 08:50:29 AM
Post by: grade-creek-rd on December 25, 2020, 06:24:51 PM
I do hope Idaho gets their system fixed, and would rather see it be draw only for non-residence with the option of a group application than their "over the counter" tags which screwed a lot of groups/family's out of a traditional hunt. IF it really is over-run with hunters (both NR's and residents) then make it a draw only for NR's...at least groups won't get screwed and can look at other states if not drawn for Idaho (which would be smart to make it an early Dec. NR draw before other states).
Grade...hopefully MT bound 2021!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 25, 2020, 07:06:40 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on December 25, 2020, 10:31:56 PM
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Post by: highside74 on December 25, 2020, 10:37:55 PM
I personally love Idaho and fully support all 4 of you going to hunt Montana...way better hunting over there!
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:chuckle:
Post by: hunter399 on December 26, 2020, 07:17:05 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2020, 07:21:50 AM
I personally love Idaho and fully support all 4 of you going to hunt Montana...way better hunting over there!hey now! Some of us want to do both :chuckle: since I already have an idaho tag i encourage anyone thinking montana to look hard at some new idaho units first :tup: :chuckle:
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Post by: grundy53 on December 26, 2020, 07:34:21 AM
Same here. 😆I personally love Idaho and fully support all 4 of you going to hunt Montana...way better hunting over there!hey now! Some of us want to do both :chuckle: since I already have an idaho tag i encourage anyone thinking montana to look hard at some new idaho units first :tup: :chuckle:
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Post by: meatwhack on December 26, 2020, 08:50:26 AM
Post by: jstone on December 26, 2020, 10:14:03 AM
Didn’t want to put in for Idaho until later in the year. Probably won’t happen. Would like to see the deer recovery before I spend the money
Post by: actionshooter on December 26, 2020, 11:04:37 AM
Post by: Bigshooter on December 26, 2020, 11:36:26 AM
I was really optimistic that Montana wasn't going to see an increase with the initial panic buying in Idaho. I believe most hunters only hunt one state and thought a bunch were going for the guaranteed tag vs the draw, but with Idaho having 4K+ tags still available, that was wishful thinking....
It's still December. At this rate they will all be gone by the end of January. Which is 6 months earlier than last year.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on January 04, 2021, 09:48:45 PM
On another note, Idaho residents don't realize that with the new NR OTC tag system that breaks apart traditional groups, NR hunters will actually be expanding their knowledge of Idaho's other units. More YouTube rockstars giving away which units to hunt, and more popularity to the state. Look at Bozeman, MT, it seems just about every "famous" TV star on the Outdoor Channel now base out of there along with hunting companies...I can foresee some of those upcoming stars/shows/companies re-locating to Idaho (along with lots of other people) and then you will have to limit resident tags. Just look at this forum, every year people on here ask where to move to, including Idaho, as they flee from the anti-hunting home of Washington especially and after this latest WDFW commissioner board appointee who is anti-hunting and pro-predator (wolf, bears and cougars) you will see the WDFW shape into an anti-hunting agency...but hey, we can all move to Idaho and not worry about the new NR OTC tag system!
Just look at the steelhead rivers in Grays Harbor area...WDFW shut down or destroyed Puget Sound rivers so anglers flooded Grays Harbor rivers and now they can't support all the influx (even with over 300,000 steelhead planted in the Chehalis system and tributaries) and are now being closed early and can't use bait or fish from a boat! With the population of Idaho growing so fast IDFG will need to shorten seasons, limit harvest (point restrictions, sex restrictions, etc) if they continue to allow residents to go unchecked, even with NR restrictions to 10%. And this will affect surrounding states...like Montana as hunters find other places to hunt. Again, be careful what you ask for, as you might just get it!
Grade
Post by: idaho guy on January 05, 2021, 04:53:59 AM
For those that thought it I was ONLY going to Montana in my group of 4 (now 5...max group application) you might want to re-read my post...I am still going to Idaho AND Montana if drawn (like Karl is planning too). This thread is NOT all about Idaho, it is about how Idaho is affecting Montana (and possibly other states). I have the luxury to hunt multiple states, and will hunt Idaho as often as I can, however, it also means I will be now exploring other units in Idaho AND other states like Montana that I had never planned on hunting...
On another note, Idaho residents don't realize that with the new NR OTC tag system that breaks apart traditional groups, NR hunters will actually be expanding their knowledge of Idaho's other units. More YouTube rockstars giving away which units to hunt, and more popularity to the state. Look at Bozeman, MT, it seems just about every "famous" TV star on the Outdoor Channel now base out of there along with hunting companies...I can foresee some of those upcoming stars/shows/companies re-locating to Idaho (along with lots of other people) and then you will have to limit resident tags. Just look at this forum, every year people on here ask where to move to, including Idaho, as they flee from the anti-hunting home of Washington especially and after this latest WDFW commissioner board appointee who is anti-hunting and pro-predator (wolf, bears and cougars) you will see the WDFW shape into an anti-hunting agency...but hey, we can all move to Idaho and not worry about the new NR OTC tag system!
Just look at the steelhead rivers in Grays Harbor area...WDFW shut down or destroyed Puget Sound rivers so anglers flooded Grays Harbor rivers and now they can't support all the influx (even with over 300,000 steelhead planted in the Chehalis system and tributaries) and are now being closed early and can't use bait or fish from a boat! With the population of Idaho growing so fast IDFG will need to shorten seasons, limit harvest (point restrictions, sex restrictions, etc) if they continue to allow residents to go unchecked, even with NR restrictions to 10%. And this will affect surrounding states...like Montana as hunters find other places to hunt. Again, be careful what you ask for, as you might just get it!
Grade
:yeah: Idaho’s real problem is NEW resident hunters who previously had out of state plates! Restrictions on non residents is the right choice for Idaho fish and game. This is first step and I am grateful that they are addressing overcrowding with non residents first. The next step will be the hardest and it’s the elephant in the room which is what do we do with all the “new” resident hunters. One of the primary motivations for the people moving here that I talk too is hunting and to escape liberal politics so most new people are hunters. I have met some from Washington that moved they are great guys and good hunters but we are going to reach a tipping point where Idaho will have to go the way of resident draw system too. I just hope it’s many years away but we will see. Instagram “rock stars “ will continue to publicize good hunting areas regardless I disagree that picking units will lead to non residents discovering new honey hole hunting spots. It will make a lot of hunts better by limiting non residents just like 27 etc. for original topic I don’t think Idaho moves the needle much on out of state apps but will add a few that don’t get Idaho tags. Every year Montana odds get worse after they went 100 percent draw with the price increase odds go down a little each year. If you want to blame something blame the internet first, on x second and go hunt third then throw in hunting fool and all those publications. Technology is great if only you can use it :chuckle: those tools make everything known and too easy to figure out a hunting spot in a short period of time. On x specifically ruined hidden gems of public land that used to be hard to find and identify. I use on x but if you’re secret spots not so secret that is probably why.
Post by: Rob on January 05, 2021, 05:21:26 AM
The biggest increase in demand in 2021 will be the sheer volumes of first time hunters from 2020. The increase in Hunters Ed classes, first time gun buyers, etc is massive from 2020 and will likely trend that way in 2021 too. This will put a lot of burden on the available tags, etc.
I received this from the Hunter Education Coordinator in a newsletter yesterday:
"As you likely know, our certification numbers skyrocketed, likely due to
many reasons; schools & sports cancelled, lack of competition for time,
families staying home, an opportunistic learning opportunity. As you might
expect, the relative monthly numbers were similar to normal years, only
much higher. I believe the highest daily certification number was around
325 in early to mid-October. As is typical, the total number of certifications
continues to grow by the day, and as of December 20, over 24,000
students were certified since March 16 via the all-online course. Prior to
March 16, around 1,500 students were certified through our normal
classes.
This increase is a national phenomenon. Most states that did not already offer an all-online course
offered that class format and saw similar increases in numbers. Hunting license sales increased, as did
most other types of outdoor recreation. National and state efforts are now turning towards efforts to
retain these new hunters by providing outreach, education, and opportunities to continue learning
about and experiencing hunting."
I am hoping the upside of this will be more voters in-tune with issues that impact hunting/fishing.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 05, 2021, 05:35:21 AM
Post by: grade-creek-rd on January 05, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
Grade
Post by: bornhunter on January 05, 2021, 09:52:56 PM
For those that thought it I was ONLY going to Montana in my group of 4 (now 5...max group application) you might want to re-read my post...I am still going to Idaho AND Montana if drawn (like Karl is planning too). This thread is NOT all about Idaho, it is about how Idaho is affecting Montana (and possibly other states). I have the luxury to hunt multiple states, and will hunt Idaho as often as I can, however, it also means I will be now exploring other units in Idaho AND other states like Montana that I had never planned on hunting...
On another note, Idaho residents don't realize that with the new NR OTC tag system that breaks apart traditional groups, NR hunters will actually be expanding their knowledge of Idaho's other units. More YouTube rockstars giving away which units to hunt, and more popularity to the state. Look at Bozeman, MT, it seems just about every "famous" TV star on the Outdoor Channel now base out of there along with hunting companies...I can foresee some of those upcoming stars/shows/companies re-locating to Idaho (along with lots of other people) and then you will have to limit resident tags. Just look at this forum, every year people on here ask where to move to, including Idaho, as they flee from the anti-hunting home of Washington especially and after this latest WDFW commissioner board appointee who is anti-hunting and pro-predator (wolf, bears and cougars) you will see the WDFW shape into an anti-hunting agency...but hey, we can all move to Idaho and not worry about the new NR OTC tag system!
Just look at the steelhead rivers in Grays Harbor area...WDFW shut down or destroyed Puget Sound rivers so anglers flooded Grays Harbor rivers and now they can't support all the influx (even with over 300,000 steelhead planted in the Chehalis system and tributaries) and are now being closed early and can't use bait or fish from a boat! With the population of Idaho growing so fast IDFG will need to shorten seasons, limit harvest (point restrictions, sex restrictions, etc) if they continue to allow residents to go unchecked, even with NR restrictions to 10%. And this will affect surrounding states...like Montana as hunters find other places to hunt. Again, be careful what you ask for, as you might just get it!
Grade
Well said. :yeah:
Post by: dreamingbig on January 05, 2021, 10:07:44 PM
(BG=Non Res Big Game combo and D=Non Res Deer combo)I think the recent stimulus checks will have more hunters looking at out of state opportunities.
So with one bonus point (bought at time of applying), 2018 odds were BG=100% and D=100%. 2019 odds were BG=77% and D=100%. 2020 odds were BG=68.5% and D=78.2%.
So the question is, as these tags get harder and harder to draw in the future, What will they be in 2021 as another variable is introduced and that being the changes in Idaho that will drive more hunters to find what they think are "Greener Pastures" in other non-resident states like Montana. Im sure other states like Wyoming, Colorado, etc will also be affected.
My guess is that Montana will be down to 50% draw odds or less very soon. Maybe even in year 2021. :twocents:
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Post by: dvolmer on January 05, 2021, 11:21:44 PM
Thats awesome news!!!! Some silver lining on the pandemic. 24000 new hunters to help support our heritage!Its sweet and scary at the same time in my opinion. Yes we need to keep our hunting heritage, but is there room for them in the system the way it is now without having a big negative impact on the current hunting population? As Washington critter numbers in general continue to drop (for so many reasons) and success and access to decent hunting grounds dwindle, I don't really know the right answer for this :dunno:. Out of state hunting opportunities are getting harder and harder with tag number decreases, license prices climbing, and land access getting harder and harder to get.
I have to search down deep to figure out how I feel about that. I should be ecstatic about it but is it worth it to me to have this and get to hunt out of state only every third year instead of yearly? Maybe I'm selfish??? :dunno: I guess if hunting is just time camping in the mountains surrounded by nature, friends, and family with little thought to success and over-crowded hunting opportunities, I guess its ok. I guess everyone's successful experience is different from another's. I will have to think about this!!! ;)
Post by: Stein on January 06, 2021, 06:40:27 AM
I get it, nobody is a big fan of pumpkin patches for sure. Like many, I literally have nightmares about rolling up to a spot only to find a dozen other trucks already there.
It's pretty much a fact that we can't have both a healthy hunting heritage handed down without having hunters replaced by at least a 1:1 ratio. Actually it should be higher as the population increases to keep a similar per capita average. We haven't been doing this as hunter numbers in general have decreased for several decades. Hunting is declining and this would be the first time this might be either a blip or trend reversal.
I think it's one of those situations where we can focus on the positive. More hunters is more revenue for game management, more pro-hunting voters and maintaining the heritage for future generations.
Post by: Rob on January 06, 2021, 06:44:49 AM
Post by: Alan K on January 06, 2021, 07:16:08 AM
The fervor around eliminating any effective means of predator control has only grown, and I think it's safe to say that will continue to.
First, general hunts will be reduced or even done away with outright, moving to a draw system where hunter numbers, and thus harvest numbers can be limited. Hunters, seeing the decreased populations will accept this since WE are the ones who believe in conservation (not preservation). Then the draw quotas will be reduced since the slack will be picked up by the booming predator populations... And quotas will be reduced.... And reduced some more... The hunting community will continue to shrink and become virtually non existent when it takes years to get an opportunity to hunt. There will be zero new recruitment with such scarcity in opportunity.
Hunting is going away eventually. It's way past the point of the heritage being passed along in any numbers large enough to sustain itself. The only thing keeping it going politically is the generally accepted public sentiment around it. It certainly isn't the hunter votes themselves.
It probably is selfish of me to say that I shrug my shoulders when I hear about hunter recruitment being on a continual slide, but oh well. I realize that it only accelerates the steps above. Heck, a blind person can see the trajectory we're on with the predator/prey balance, yet the game department continues to expand 'opportunity' in new and longer seasons, additional technological advances OK'd, etc. By the looks of it I think WDFW figures they go ahead and get to the end game so that they have an argument to be funded exclusively from the general fund. Hunters and anglers can't keep that bloated bureaucracy funded anyway. Without hunters or fishermen, there is nothing to truly manage, they can just let nature do their job for them. Doesn't matter what happens at that point, it's 'natural' therefor okay.
Post by: whacker1 on January 06, 2021, 07:16:48 AM
Post by: cougforester on January 06, 2021, 08:36:38 AM
The end of hunting comes when the enviro's have successfully introduced and boosted predator populations to the point that ungulate/fish populations can no longer handle the additional take from humans.
The fervor around eliminating any effective means of predator control has only grown, and I think it's safe to say that will continue to.
First, general hunts will be reduced or even done away with outright, moving to a draw system where hunter numbers, and thus harvest numbers can be limited. Hunters, seeing the decreased populations will accept this since WE are the ones who believe in conservation (not preservation). Then the draw quotas will be reduced since the slack will be picked up by the booming predator populations... And quotas will be reduced.... And reduced some more... The hunting community will continue to shrink and become virtually non existent when it takes years to get an opportunity to hunt. There will be zero new recruitment with such scarcity in opportunity.
Hunting is going away eventually. It's way past the point of the heritage being passed along in any numbers large enough to sustain itself. The only thing keeping it going politically is the generally accepted public sentiment around it. It certainly isn't the hunter votes themselves.
It probably is selfish of me to say that I shrug my shoulders when I hear about hunter recruitment being on a continual slide, but oh well. I realize that it only accelerates the steps above. Heck, a blind person can see the trajectory we're on with the predator/prey balance, yet the game department continues to expand 'opportunity' in new and longer seasons, additional technological advances OK'd, etc. By the looks of it I think WDFW figures they go ahead and get to the end game so that they have an argument to be funded exclusively from the general fund. Hunters and anglers can't keep that bloated bureaucracy funded anyway. Without hunters or fishermen, there is nothing to truly manage, they can just let nature do their job for them. Doesn't matter what happens at that point, it's 'natural' therefor okay.
Boy, way to put a damper on my morning. I'm doing my best to take my buddies hunting who haven't gone before and have been successful getting people hooked. Sure isn't hard to see where we're headed without significant additional recruitment though.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 06, 2021, 09:04:01 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 06, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Theres endless opportunities to hunt if a guy is really looking. Things are forever changing and if you aren't willing to adapt and find those new opportunities, you get left behind. I hunt at least one new unit a year somewhere. Sometimes its a bust, and sometimes its a killer new spot. Gotta be willing to fail sometimes. Thats hunting.
Post by: whacker1 on January 06, 2021, 10:30:19 AM
And let's not forget there are more elk, whitetail, turkey, ducks, etc than there has ever been in the last century. There is a lot of game out there to be had. The only species that gets kind of depressing to think about is mule deer. Well any deer in WA state really.
Theres endless opportunities to hunt if a guy is really looking. Things are forever changing and if you aren't willing to adapt and find those new opportunities, you get left behind. I hunt at least one new unit a year somewhere. Sometimes its a bust, and sometimes its a killer new spot. Gotta be willing to fail sometimes. Thats hunting.
Well said.....However, for those that are pessimists.. by all means give it up. if it is not making you happy, then leave those spots and animals for the rest of us.
Post by: Alan K on January 06, 2021, 11:53:30 AM
My comments really stemmed from the hunting heritage and new recruits talk. Unfortunately I don't think it matters in the long run. The number of hunters is a tiny fraction of the population, and now that wildlife is being managed politically I don't have a whole lot of hope that things will turn for the better at any point no matter how much our numbers may grow. I don't doubt it will take time to get to the end game I laid out before, but we're certainly going down the death by 1000 cuts road.
And I really don't enjoy being a wet blanket, just my honest perspective.
Post by: idaho guy on January 06, 2021, 08:01:17 PM
I still harvest my animals every year, so don't take my pessimism as whining. Filled my BT tag, elk tag, and 2 bears tags this year in western Washington, as well as deer in ID and MT. Do the same every year, though just in the last couple I've really focused on bears. It's still not terribly difficult to fill tags, just nowhere near the days of passing over handfuls each season waiting for 'the one'. I will never give it up so long as it's an option.
My comments really stemmed from the hunting heritage and new recruits talk. Unfortunately I don't think it matters in the long run. The number of hunters is a tiny fraction of the population, and now that wildlife is being managed politically I don't have a whole lot of hope that things will turn for the better at any point no matter how much our numbers may grow. I don't doubt it will take time to get to the end game I laid out before, but we're certainly going down the death by 1000 cuts road.
And I really don't enjoy being a wet blanket, just my honest perspective.
You’re right on the ballot box wildlife management plus the big push to introduce and protect predators. If you have massive predators there is no surplus game to even create revenue by selling tags. When that happens our whole wildlife model just collapses. I think the whole wolf reintroduction was really part of a bigger long term plan to basically collapse the North American wildlife model and get rid of hunting by some of the real extreme groups. Others involved just got pulled along with a lot of emotional hype around wolves but predators in general too. In the meantime hunting is still good and I can’t wait to get back out there! We have lots of good years left and I don’t think will see anywhere near the end of hunting in my lifetime. Seems like every year things change just a little bit more so I have to adapt in some way. Were we talking about Montana tags ? :chuckle:
Post by: dvolmer on January 08, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
Post by: jjhunter on January 08, 2021, 03:22:11 PM
Well I am worried about it enough that when we hunted this last November in Montana, I visited with the ranch owner of the ranch that we hunt every year and he has agreed to get the paperwork in to the state for "Landowner Sponsored Non-Resident Deer Tags". This should guarantee that we draw every year from here on out. The one down side is that you can only hunt on his deeded land with the license, but that shouldn't be to big of a problem for us because that is pretty much all we do anyways. It does take a few options away from us, but it is worth the option to hunt every year instead of every other year like Montana will probably be this year and within two more years it will be an every third year option if it keeps going the way it is. Ranch is 10,000 acres. Now I need to tackle my Wyoming deer tag issue. Don't have this option there so it is looking difficult but there are a few tricks the average guy doesn't readily think of! ;)
I used to partake in the LO sponsored draw; if remember right, it works well for 1 or 2 on a large ranch but then allocation dries up.
Post by: idaho guy on January 09, 2021, 07:55:14 AM
Well I am worried about it enough that when we hunted this last November in Montana, I visited with the ranch owner of the ranch that we hunt every year and he has agreed to get the paperwork in to the state for "Landowner Sponsored Non-Resident Deer Tags". This should guarantee that we draw every year from here on out. The one down side is that you can only hunt on his deeded land with the license, but that shouldn't be to big of a problem for us because that is pretty much all we do anyways. It does take a few options away from us, but it is worth the option to hunt every year instead of every other year like Montana will probably be this year and within two more years it will be an every third year option if it keeps going the way it is. Ranch is 10,000 acres. Now I need to tackle my Wyoming deer tag issue. Don't have this option there so it is looking difficult but there are a few tricks the average guy doesn't readily think of! ;)
We did that before long time ago before the price increase when Montana was every other year. I’m not sure that’s a guaranteed tag I thought we still had to draw just way better odds :dunno:
Post by: dvolmer on January 10, 2021, 01:35:52 PM