Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 11:24:47 AM

Title: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 11:24:47 AM: I'm confused at why there are cow hunts after then end of regular seasons, when cows are possibly carrying calf embryos. Would someone please explain the reason for this? I'm sure there is one. I just don't know what it is. Thanks,
PossumMan
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: X-Force on January 11, 2022, 11:27:39 AM: My assumption without looking at the regulations is overpopulation, winter ground and conflict management in very specific circumstances.

Last year 407 was open until mid January
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: WSU on January 11, 2022, 11:28:37 AM: To reduce the population or modify elk behavior (like keep them out of agriculture).
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 11:46:20 AM: That makes sense. It just seems a little grizzly, especially if it's a pregnant cow. Thanks for the responses.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: arrowflinger on January 11, 2022, 11:55:53 AM: A conflict Specialist once explained it to me this way....They consider it taking two elk out of the population. :dunno:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: trophyhunt on January 11, 2022, 12:01:18 PM: Quote from: arrowflinger on January 11, 2022, 11:55:53 AM
A conflict Specialist once explained it to me this way....They consider it taking two elk out of the population. :dunno:
sometimes 3 elk, I think I'll do the gut less method If I'm ever involved in one of those hunts.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 12:01:55 PM: Quote from: trophyhunt on January 11, 2022, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: arrowflinger on January 11, 2022, 11:55:53 AM
A conflict Specialist once explained it to me this way....They consider it taking two elk out of the population. :dunno:
sometimes 3 elk, I think I'll do the gut less method If I'm ever involved in one of those hunts.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: millerwheeler on January 11, 2022, 12:10:02 PM: Quote from: trophyhunt on January 11, 2022, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: arrowflinger on January 11, 2022, 11:55:53 AM
A conflict Specialist once explained it to me this way....They consider it taking two elk out of the population. :dunno:
sometimes 3 elk, I think I'll do the gut less method If I'm ever involved in one of those hunts.

Y so that second elk might be EXTRA TENDER :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: NRA4LIFE on January 11, 2022, 12:17:52 PM: What's the difference between killing a pregnant cow in Oct/Nov or in early January?
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 12:28:01 PM: Quote from: NRA4LIFE on January 11, 2022, 12:17:52 PM
What's the difference between killing a pregnant cow in Oct/Nov or in early January?

Fair question. Statistically, nothing. For me, the development of the embryo has a visual that had me wonder the reason to wait. The answer from WSU made sense to me.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: buglebuster on January 11, 2022, 12:29:43 PM: Same thing as killing a cow in September that has been covered by a bull already. Yes the fetus is larger but I’ve been on quite a few cow hunts from January-March. The gutless method is really good at avoiding that site
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: trophyhunt on January 11, 2022, 12:31:33 PM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 12:28:01 PM
Quote from: NRA4LIFE on January 11, 2022, 12:17:52 PM
What's the difference between killing a pregnant cow in Oct/Nov or in early January?

Fair question. Statistically, nothing. For me, the development of the embryo has a visual that had me wonder the reason to wait. The answer from WSU made sense to me.
Yeah that embryo development will keep me more interested in the earlier cow elk hunts, the older I get, the more taking life effects me. Not seeing the fetus is a bonus. Maybe for wusses like me they can give out permits to shoot elk that are in a pasture with rubber bullets or rubber tipped arrows!!! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 12:33:37 PM: Quote from: trophyhunt on January 11, 2022, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: pianoman9701 on January 11, 2022, 12:28:01 PM
Quote from: NRA4LIFE on January 11, 2022, 12:17:52 PM
What's the difference between killing a pregnant cow in Oct/Nov or in early January?

Fair question. Statistically, nothing. For me, the development of the embryo has a visual that had me wonder the reason to wait. The answer from WSU made sense to me.
Yeah that embryo development will keep me more interested in the earlier cow elk hunts, the older I get, the more taking life effects me. Not seeing the fetus is a bonus. Maybe for wusses like me they can give out permits to shoot elk that are in a pasture with rubber bullets or rubber tipped arrows!!! :chuckle:
Last few years, I might as well have been using a Nerf Bow. The Elk embryos have been safe.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on January 11, 2022, 12:34:49 PM: i believe they do it later in the year because the elk are more regionally congregated around or near by the area that they are causing damage ect. Early in the year the elk are too spread out, lessening the chance of successful harvest and possible not taking an elk that is the cause of the winter damage ect.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 11, 2022, 12:40:22 PM: As others have stated, a pregnant cow is a pregnant cow regardless of what stage of pregnancy she is in. Could even go further and point out that killing females period is cringy due to the amount of offspring she would produce over her lifespan.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: Rainier10 on January 11, 2022, 12:51:31 PM: Quote from: X-Force on January 11, 2022, 11:27:39 AM
My assumption without looking at the regulations is overpopulation, winter ground and conflict management in very specific circumstances.

Last year 407 was open until mid January
Quote from: WSU on January 11, 2022, 11:28:37 AM
To reduce the population or modify elk behavior (like keep them out of agriculture).
:yeah: :yeah:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: b0bbyg on January 11, 2022, 12:59:18 PM: There are also a few master hunter tags out there intended to target Hoof rot Elk.
Guessing easier to find the limpers when they come down to winter ranges ?? at least that is a theory in my head why they picked the late dates.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: Encore 280 on January 11, 2022, 01:35:24 PM: Why not have an antlerless harvest during the regular season (archery, muzzle loader and modern) rather than later in the year? :dunno:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: HikerHunter on January 11, 2022, 01:44:51 PM: Wasn't there a Meateater podcast where he talked about a guy that bbq'ed or somehow cooked up an elk fetus after a late season cow hunt?
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: NRA4LIFE on January 11, 2022, 01:48:00 PM: Please, let's not go there.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 11, 2022, 02:05:44 PM: Quote from: Encore 280 on January 11, 2022, 01:35:24 PM
Why not have an antlerless harvest during the regular season (archery, muzzle loader and modern) rather than later in the year? :dunno:
My guess is people would hold out for a bull and save cows for the last day. Then not enough see cows the last day, missing harvest objective.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 11, 2022, 02:35:29 PM: I would try to avoid seeing fetuses if involved in these hunts and personally think there is no need to have them in any herds in wa as currently all are below objective in my opinion.

But optics aside, taking of cows has never bothered me a bit. Along a good life a cow MAY produce 8ish calves? A bull could sire that many in a single week likley more, yet we place our focus on them. Its no wonder we have three months of rutting activity.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: HikerHunter on January 11, 2022, 04:51:59 PM: Quote from: NRA4LIFE on January 11, 2022, 01:48:00 PM
Please, let's not go there.

It may not be palatable to all, but I applaud for making good use of what he killed.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: Dan-o on January 11, 2022, 06:15:18 PM: Quote from: Encore 280 on January 11, 2022, 01:35:24 PM
Why not have an antlerless harvest during the regular season (archery, muzzle loader and modern) rather than later in the year? :dunno:

You can't do late season agriculture conflict during the regular season.

How would you tell who the offending elk were?
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: nwwanderer on January 12, 2022, 05:24:01 AM: Though there are a few conflict hunts in place most of the January and beyond harvest is unlicensed concolor and lupus and it is big, real big
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: Stein on January 26, 2022, 08:39:09 AM: By having it late in the season, they can target the specific area where the elk are a problem for one reason or another. Earlier in the season, you don't know where that particular cow will winter, maybe it's in the problem area or maybe it's a mile over in a nice national forest meadow.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 26, 2022, 10:21:11 AM: You all have given me a better understanding of the practice. Thanks! :tup:
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: meatwhack on January 26, 2022, 10:38:12 AM: It’s hard for me to believe that the elk population anywhere in the state is in such a state that it’s beneficial to kill two elk with one bullet. On the other hand maybe they do it so there’s less calf kills to report from predation.
Title: Re: Cow Hunts After Jan 1st. Why?
Post by: Stein on January 26, 2022, 11:01:51 AM: Anytime you kill a female elk, you eliminate that animal, the one it may be carrying and any future offspring. It doesn't matter what day of the year, same effect.

As far as I know, all cow hunts are designed to manage the herd where the goal is to reduce herd size in a given area for one reason or another.

One can argue on the wisdom of the specific herd objectives, but cow hunts are an effective way to manage herd size.