Post by: whacker1 on August 25, 2022, 05:43:08 PM
i am sure many will disagree with this subject matter on both sides of the discussion, but August 31st Washington BHA is hosting an event in Washougal to Discuss Free the Snake.
i am disappointed so far that the presentation of the subject matter appears one-sided, and that both special guests are pro-removal of the Snake River Dams. While i understand that BHA is for less impact on the resources across our nation, i am also frustrated on how they don't bring the information forward on how this will affect our daily lives.
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams. i am sure I offended a dozen or more members that are commercial fisherman on the site, but we have to be honest with ourselves that isolating the dams as the cause is the most expensive solution for the short and long term gain to the various species.
i am disappointed to say the least.
Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 05:46:19 PM
Perhaps BHA isn't about debate, but an agenda?
Post by: Sandberm on August 25, 2022, 05:53:37 PM
So arrogant.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on August 25, 2022, 05:59:30 PM
Hello All,Let’s do both! :tup:
i am sure many will disagree with this subject matter on both sides of the discussion, but August 31st Washington BHA is hosting an event in Washougal to Discuss Free the Snake.
i am disappointed so far that the presentation of the subject matter appears one-sided, and that both special guests are pro-removal of the Snake River Dams. While i understand that BHA is for less impact on the resources across our nation, i am also frustrated on how they don't bring the information forward on how this will affect our daily lives.
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams. i am sure I offended a dozen or more members that are commercial fisherman on the site, but we have to be honest with ourselves that isolating the dams as the cause is the most expensive solution for the short and long term gain to the various species.
i am disappointed to say the least.
Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 06:02:41 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on August 25, 2022, 06:09:17 PM
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
Post by: grundy53 on August 25, 2022, 06:10:08 PM
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Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 06:11:35 PM
I do think it's important to point out that the pro-dam argument has a well-founded public and political campaign so that position has plenty of platform to share it's position as well.
I think a neutral, healthy and civically responsible conversation would be great, but I don't see it happening without conjecture, falsehoods, strawmen and misdirects causing a failure to launch right out the gate.
I do know that BHA has membership in the snake dam region and does have state members and leaders who care about those communities and people who rely on the dams.
be done in a way that respects the communities most affected.
Is what should be occupying everyone's energies (especially those opposed and representing those impacted stakeholders) but it never gets the time and attention it deserves in public. Because if it goes forward to remove those dams, affected communities don't need to be left high and dry. Now's the time to see what's possible if those dams were to come out, not just hope to figure it out later
Post by: grundy53 on August 25, 2022, 06:12:05 PM
Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?I wouldn't exactly call where these dams are "back country"
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
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Post by: D-Rock425 on August 25, 2022, 06:12:44 PM
I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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Post by: Jake Dogfish on August 25, 2022, 06:33:07 PM
How about starting with predators like seals and birds before nuking a vital to agriculture dam :dunno:
Let’s do that too!
How are run of the river dams vital to agriculture?
Post by: callturner on August 25, 2022, 06:38:20 PM
Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 06:44:40 PM
Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?I wouldn't exactly call where these dams are "back country"
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
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Backcountry Hunters & Anglers seeks to ensure North America's outdoor heritage of hunting and fishing in a natural setting, through education and work on behalf of wild public lands, waters, and wildlife.
BHA's mission
Post by: follow maggie on August 25, 2022, 06:54:07 PM
I looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 06:55:18 PM
Dams are vital for grain transportation. :tup:Is there existing rail banks?
Post by: jeffro on August 25, 2022, 07:01:07 PM
Got an idea!
Let’s turn Eastern Washington, some of Idaho and Oregon, back into the desert it’s suppose to be!
Let’s increase our carbon footprint 1000x with trucking, rail and building inefficient replacement power supplies
How stupid do we want this to get?
Hoover, Grand Coulee, plus all the others on the Columbia, Glen canyon
How about the Erie Canal? Panama Canal, intercoastal waterway?
Blow them all up, or fill em in
All to save a Southern resident orca,
Which are doing fine BTW
Post by: grundy53 on August 25, 2022, 07:06:20 PM
Hey!Exactly. But hey at least there will be salmon! Oh wait nope. The sea lions and commerants will still be slaughtering them....
Got an idea!
Let’s turn Eastern Washington, some of Idaho and Oregon, back into the desert it’s suppose to be!
Let’s increase our carbon footprint 1000x with trucking, rail and building inefficient replacement power supplies
How stupid do we want this to get?
Hoover, Grand Coulee, plus all the others on the Columbia, Glen canyon
How about the Erie Canal? Panama Canal, intercoastal waterway?
Blow them all up, or fill em in
All to save a Southern resident orca,
Which are doing fine BTW
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Post by: Platensek-po on August 25, 2022, 07:06:51 PM
On another note, every time some bashes BHA on this site they never have anything they can actually pinpoint as to why. Its always their “agenda”, which they cant seem to explain, or they support something like better rivers for salmon so therefor I don’t like them…
Post by: grundy53 on August 25, 2022, 07:10:35 PM
Knock out all the dams. Every last one. Ancient tech that’s extremely outdated and not needed. Seals and birds would do a lot less harm if the fish weren’t trapped at the bases of the dams. Cant think of anything better than seeing the snake and the Columbia completely free of dams.Lol. Ancient tech? Outdated? If we we take out all of the dams what is your solution to replace the power they supply? Or the loss of irrigation?
On another note, every time some bashes BHA on this site they never have anything they can actually pinpoint as to why. Its always their “agenda”, which they cant seem to explain, or they support something like better rivers for salmon so therefor I don’t like them…
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Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 07:19:32 PM
-fought tooth and nail to save washington spring bear hunting to the very end
-stood up to anti-hunting commissioners in public testimony during the blue mountain cougars
-publicly called out the failure of the commission to prioritize blue mountain elk
-crafted a letter to the governor co-signed by every major national hunting organization about appointing better commissioner
-went on a media blitz about the state of the WDFW commission and threat to hunting in op-eds and podcasts to a national level
-pulled miles of fencing in mule deer habitat
- cleaned up a handful of public shooting sites
-adopted an access site
-hosted meetings for the public to engage directly with WDFW scientists
-helped craft/propose legislation that would prevent bad commissioners from getting appointed
-donated funds and labor to the first hunt foundation's youth deer hunt
all in 2022 so far
I was worried ya'll were going soft on them
Post by: grundy53 on August 25, 2022, 07:39:40 PM
It's nice to see BHA getting so much heat, I was worried people had forgotten what a green decoy the org was after the WA chapterAre we not allowed to disagree with them?
-fought tooth and nail to save washington spring bear hunting to the very end
-stood up to anti-hunting commissioners in public testimony during the blue mountain cougars
-publicly called out the failure of the commission to prioritize blue mountain elk
-crafted a letter to the governor co-signed by every major national hunting organization about appointing better commissioner
-went on a media blitz about the state of the WDFW commission and threat to hunting in op-eds and podcasts to a national level
-pulled miles of fencing in mule deer habitat
- cleaned up a handful of public shooting sites
-adopted an access site
-hosted meetings for the public to engage directly with WDFW scientists
-helped craft/propose legislation that would prevent bad commissioners from getting appointed
-donated funds and labor to the first hunt foundation's youth deer hunt
all in 2022 so far
I was worried ya'll were going soft on them
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Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 07:43:47 PM
Knock out all the dams. Every last one. Ancient tech that’s extremely outdated and not needed. Seals and birds would do a lot less harm if the fish weren’t trapped at the bases of the dams. Cant think of anything better than seeing the snake and the Columbia completely free of dams.Lol. Ancient tech? Outdated? If we we take out all of the dams what is your solution to replace the power they supply? Or the loss of irrigation?
On another note, every time some bashes BHA on this site they never have anything they can actually pinpoint as to why. Its always their “agenda”, which they cant seem to explain, or they support something like better rivers for salmon so therefor I don’t like them…
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How they gonna charge up those e cars :chuckle:
They like to eat, but don't want irrigation pumping water to crops
It's sexy to think of uncorking the dams, but they never think of the consequences "oh we'll just ship it by train", not if there's no irrigation....
Destroying the dams comes with new laws and legislation, and those laws won't include moving irrigation pumps down a bank 300'...out through a native indian heritage site and pumping water up hundreds of feet higher and 1/2 mile or more further
How about all you remove the dams people get a copy of the fine print before you sign off on it huh?
Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 07:46:41 PM
It's nice to see BHA getting so much heat, I was worried people had forgotten what a green decoy the org was after the WA chapterAre we not allowed to disagree with them?
-fought tooth and nail to save washington spring bear hunting to the very end
-stood up to anti-hunting commissioners in public testimony during the blue mountain cougars
-publicly called out the failure of the commission to prioritize blue mountain elk
-crafted a letter to the governor co-signed by every major national hunting organization about appointing better commissioner
-went on a media blitz about the state of the WDFW commission and threat to hunting in op-eds and podcasts to a national level
-pulled miles of fencing in mule deer habitat
- cleaned up a handful of public shooting sites
-adopted an access site
-hosted meetings for the public to engage directly with WDFW scientists
-helped craft/propose legislation that would prevent bad commissioners from getting appointed
-donated funds and labor to the first hunt foundation's youth deer hunt
all in 2022 so far
I was worried ya'll were going soft on them
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Did anyone say you can't? I was just adding those dastardly actions to the list of reasons they're the worst. Just making sure we're getting the whole picture out there
Post by: mcrawfordaf on August 25, 2022, 07:54:12 PM
Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 07:59:32 PM
My dads been working for BPA damn near half his life. If you get rid of these dams you’ll start seeing rolling black ours like California. People always want to argue that they don’t “output” enough to justify their existence. But they increase the allowed load which is just as if not more important. WA is some 85% hydro power. Get rid of the dams and all your e-cars start running on what? Inslee damn well isn’t going to increase fossil fuels. They already increased taxes on natural gas. Sure tear the dams down - have fun powering your computers on wind and Inslees hot breathe.
Honestly it's really frustrating the nuclear is such a non starter on talks about relaxing the dams or fossil fuels. Bringing it up is radioactive...pun intended, but it would be a huge part of stabilizing power output levels
Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 08:01:46 PM
My dads been working for BPA damn near half his life. If you get rid of these dams you’ll start seeing rolling black ours like California. People always want to argue that they don’t “output” enough to justify their existence. But they increase the allowed load which is just as if not more important. WA is some 85% hydro power. Get rid of the dams and all your e-cars start running on what? Inslee damn well isn’t going to increase fossil fuels. They already increased taxes on natural gas. Sure tear the dams down - have fun powering your computers on wind and Inslees hot breathe.The mainstem Columbia dams are apples and oranges to the snake.
Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 08:04:04 PM
This cracks me up. I have had civil debates on many issues and never felt dislike much less hatred. But if you read it on the internet is probably true.I looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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Post by: Sandberm on August 25, 2022, 08:05:46 PM
Knock out all the dams. Every last one. Ancient tech that’s extremely outdated and not needed. Seals and birds would do a lot less harm if the fish weren’t trapped at the bases of the dams. Cant think of anything better than seeing the snake and the Columbia completely free of dams.
On another note, every time some bashes BHA on this site they never have anything they can actually pinpoint as to why. Its always their “agenda”, which they cant seem to explain, or they support something like better rivers for salmon so therefor I don’t like them…
Where do want everybody to get power from? All the stuff that gets barged up and down the rivers...how do want that stuff to get from here and there?
Is there going to be flooding?
The irrigation that comes from the columbia, the water that is diverted to the columbia basin...can you gurauntee it will still be reliable? A lot of food production happens off the Snake and Columbia.
Post by: follow maggie on August 25, 2022, 08:08:05 PM
This cracks me up. I have had civil debates on many issues and never felt dislike much less hatred. But if you read it on the internet is probably true.I looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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It is true. There own posts on their own page. Whether you believe me or not doesn’t mean *censored* does it?
Post by: mcrawfordaf on August 25, 2022, 08:11:20 PM
My dads been working for BPA damn near half his life. If you get rid of these dams you’ll start seeing rolling black ours like California. People always want to argue that they don’t “output” enough to justify their existence. But they increase the allowed load which is just as if not more important. WA is some 85% hydro power. Get rid of the dams and all your e-cars start running on what? Inslee damn well isn’t going to increase fossil fuels. They already increased taxes on natural gas. Sure tear the dams down - have fun powering your computers on wind and Inslees hot breathe.The mainstem Columbia dams are apples and oranges to the snake.
I’ll reiterate, it’s not a question of output. Of course they pale in comparison. It’s about CAPACITY. Remove them sure, but capacity needs to be increased somewhere else. Nuclear would be preferred.
Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 08:13:55 PM
This cracks me up. I have had civil debates on many issues and never felt dislike much less hatred. But if you read it on the internet is probably true.I looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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It is true. There own posts on their own page. Whether you believe me or not doesn’t mean *censored* does it?
The WA chapter page?? I went back to mid June and didn't see anything even close to hostile or combative.
Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 08:16:07 PM
Capacity? Production far outweighs need in Washington. That's why it's sold to grid. Are you talking storage? There is plenty of room to mitigate storage impacts.My dads been working for BPA damn near half his life. If you get rid of these dams you’ll start seeing rolling black ours like California. People always want to argue that they don’t “output” enough to justify their existence. But they increase the allowed load which is just as if not more important. WA is some 85% hydro power. Get rid of the dams and all your e-cars start running on what? Inslee damn well isn’t going to increase fossil fuels. They already increased taxes on natural gas. Sure tear the dams down - have fun powering your computers on wind and Inslees hot breathe.The mainstem Columbia dams are apples and oranges to the snake.
I’ll reiterate, it’s not a question of output. Of course they pale in comparison. It’s about CAPACITY. Remove them sure, but capacity needs to be increased somewhere else. Nuclear would be preferred.
Post by: Sandberm on August 25, 2022, 08:18:55 PM
Any vast plateau you live by was proposed for a solar farm?
Read the news. They want to line the Horse Heaven hills with windmills, cover the backside of Ratllesnake mtn with a solar farm and i just read they want to put another solar farm south of vantage.
Lets put all this in Puget sound eh? Lets see the west side of the state power everybody
Post by: emac on August 25, 2022, 08:27:24 PM
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Post by: MeepDog on August 25, 2022, 08:35:56 PM
Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.
Post by: dwils233 on August 25, 2022, 08:36:17 PM
Why is it always remove the dams on the snake and you never here anything about removing the dams on the Columbia. I know a couple people have said it here, but there is no rallies or get togethers or talking heads saying anything about the Columbia. Why is that? What makes the Columbia dams different? Don't the fish have to get by these dams before they even make it to the snake? I grew up on the snake and I will never be for removing the dams.these are the last dams the fish have to get past to spawn by which point, they've already crossed plenty over hundreds of miles. Additionally downstream migration over the snake dams is frequently barged with significant mortality. What isn't barged dies off in the snake before it can get to the larger, cooler and safer waters and dams on the Columbia
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At least that's how I understand it. Those dams have a higher mortality impact on salmon than the Columbia does
Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 08:38:35 PM
Why is it always remove the dams on the snake and you never here anything about removing the dams on the Columbia. I know a couple people have said it here, but there is no rallies or get togethers or talking heads saying anything about the Columbia. Why is that? What makes the Columbia dams different? Don't the fish have to get by these dams before they even make it to the snake? I grew up on the snake and I will never be for removing the dams.
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You don't go for the big enchilada right away, you peck away at the side dishes first
The Columbia dams would be next.
Post by: grundy53 on August 25, 2022, 08:40:08 PM
People in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.
Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.
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Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 08:40:36 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 25, 2022, 08:41:21 PM
How would you wet siders feel if every ridge line you looked at had windmills?You didn't get the WEF memo? You're supposed to move to the big city, ride public transport, eat bugs and work a lot. Get in the wheel, cog!
Any vast plateau you live by was proposed for a solar farm?
Read the news. They want to line the Horse Heaven hills with windmills, cover the backside of Ratllesnake mtn with a solar farm and i just read they want to put another solar farm south of vantage.
Lets put all this in Puget sound eh? Lets see the west side of the state power everybody
Post by: Limhangerslayer on August 25, 2022, 09:24:35 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on August 25, 2022, 09:46:31 PM
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams.
You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet. In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of. This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.
Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 09:46:54 PM
People in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.I don't think anyone is overlooking nuclear. It's definitely a component in the discussion and has been.
Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.
Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 09:48:39 PM
We’re the dams there 12 years ago or so when there were record runs of steelhead and salmon? And how would removing the dams change the ocean conditions. That would be the two questions I’d ask them then drop the mic and walk out.
The reality is that it's not about the fish, it's about rewilding America
Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 09:54:46 PM
:yeah:
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams.
You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet. In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of. This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.
In addition to dams we look at cormorant, pinniped and habitat. As long as your rhetoric fits your narrative, preach on.
Post by: wags on August 25, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
They are going to bite you in the arse.
Post by: KFhunter on August 25, 2022, 10:09:22 PM
:yeah:
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams.
You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet. In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of. This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.
In addition to dams we look at cormorant, pinniped and habitat. As long as your rhetoric fits your narrative, preach on.
Maybe you can speak to this Tbar, how interested would the tribes be in reclaiming historical lands once the dams were breached?
Do you anticipate the tribes allowing high and dry irrigation pumps to be extended down to the new waterline, potentially for quite a distance over old flood plains that were once utilized by the tribes for fishing and whatnot?
Post by: Tbar on August 25, 2022, 11:22:27 PM
I would have to separate dreams and reality. I think the realist in me needs to look at a cost benefit analysis to come to a conclusion of improved ecological function would be a significant positive. I would love land back but don't confuse optimism with facts. I don't have skin in the game of the snake but my understanding is the ecological function is the goal.:yeah:
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams.
You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet. In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of. This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.
In addition to dams we look at cormorant, pinniped and habitat. As long as your rhetoric fits your narrative, preach on.
Maybe you can speak to this Tbar, how interested would the tribes be in reclaiming historical lands once the dams were breached?
Do you anticipate the tribes allowing high and dry irrigation pumps to be extended down to the new waterline, potentially for quite a distance over old flood plains that were once utilized by the tribes for fishing and whatnot?
Post by: WRENCHMAN on August 26, 2022, 12:51:03 AM
We will never be 100% electric with the grid and technology we have now.
Post by: MeepDog on August 26, 2022, 07:34:40 AM
They're building new nuclear plants on the Hanford site within 5 years. Small modular reactors from x energy. Ballpark 400MWPeople in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.
Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.
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Post by: whacker1 on August 26, 2022, 08:25:51 AM
The subject matter is no different than suggesting that we remove commercial fishing from the lower Columbia. Both removal of commercial fishing and removal of dams will have an impact on returning salmon and steelhead runs on the snake, but we only ever talk about removal of dams.
You obviously don't know about the big license buyback and license retirement going on right now in the Washington gillnet fleet. In fact this is at least the 4th round of license reductions in Washington that I know of. This on top of all kinds of gear restrictions on the fleet and reduced fishing time. So while I'm not offended by what you wrote, I'm also not surprised by your ignorance on the subject either.
There is a lot to unpack in all of the posts so far. Thank you for the comments on the gillnet buyback. i am glad to hear that it has continued, i was not familiar with the 4th round. i thought they were done. You are correct that i am half ignorant to the subject, because it is rarely talked about.
to continue to the other comments on subject matter:
Hydro is the most reliable and consistent power generation we have with the exception of Nuclear, natural gas, and coal fired steam plants that can run full time. solar, wind are good for loads, but we are not there to be the main supported replacement to hydro, and natural gas. i wish we had the support to invest in Nuclear.
carbon footprint will go up if the agriculture is shipped downstream by way of train vs barge.
There were lots of other great points brought up. Improved fish ladders in the snake would be more effective than grand coulee as an example, lower rise and the water is still flowing down the 4 snake pools at a fairly fast turnover. Water temps will likely rise and peak time without the dams in the peak of summer, because they draw water from lower portions of the intake on the dam versus the top of the surface water, and not to mention allowing more water to move at what would be lower water times at peak of summer. Not every dam and reservoir is created that way, but the water turnover in the snake is pretty fast between the power production and the opening of the locks to move boats/barges.
For the record:
i am not against the removal of the dams, but we can't have the conversation without the conversation of the replacement of the power production and understanding what it does to Washington's largest export, agriculture/food production.
I am a BHA life member. I do appreciate all of the things that other mentioned on what Washington BHA. What i don't appreciate is providing only one side to the debate and providing a platform that one sided debate.
Post by: fishngamereaper on August 26, 2022, 08:28:58 AM
They're building new nuclear plants on the Hanford site within 5 years. Small modular reactors from x energy. Ballpark 400MWPeople in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.
Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.
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Hopefully at some point...just maybe they figure out how to stop the waste tanks from leaking.
But apparently the feds aren't to concerned about a few hundred gallons of nuke waste leaching into the soil that surrounds the same eco system they are apparently trying to revive with dam removal...
Post by: whacker1 on August 26, 2022, 08:31:20 AM
They're building new nuclear plants on the Hanford site within 5 years. Small modular reactors from x energy. Ballpark 400MWPeople in these debates always forget about nuclear. It's the superior power source no matter how you look at it. It runs at 100 capacity, doesn't dramatically alter its environment, and has a massive output/sq mile.I don't think people forget about nuclear it's just that it's pretty much a non starter. I highly doubt they will be building any new nuclear plants in washington anytime soon.
Also, running a generator to power an electric car is still better than driving a combustion engine car. High output generators are more efficient than your engine at producing and transferring power.
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Hopefully at some point...just maybe they figure out how to stop the waste tanks from leaking.
But apparently the feds aren't to concerned about a few hundred gallons of nuke waste leaching into the soil that surrounds the same eco system they are apparently trying to revive with dam removal...
Yes, we definitely have a focus on robbing peter to pay Paul. i hope that waste is sorted out in this next attempt at Nuclear.
Post by: fishngamereaper on August 26, 2022, 08:35:10 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on August 26, 2022, 10:40:36 AM
Then you have the exporters. BN/UP are already a nightmare. There’s not going to be extra infrastructure. You’re either starving for trains, or they shoved so many down your throat they put you on embargo. Not all the exporters have truck pits, nor do they want them in many cases. Too much security issue and I seriously doubt Portland/Vancouver is looking for extra semi traffic.
And the added freight is gonna hurt. I know some instances where facilities have rail access to direct ship to exporters, but it’s cheaper to take it out of an elevator, put it on a truck, and ship to a barge facility than put on rail. Not to mention the reliability factor. Exporters rely on a mix of delivery systems to be able to make export obligations. This would be a mess and give AUS and other exporters an added freight advantage, which they already have.
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Post by: Sandberm on August 26, 2022, 10:55:23 AM
So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.
Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.
Post by: buckfvr on August 26, 2022, 11:48:56 AM
Maybe you can speak to this Tbar, how interested would the tribes be in reclaiming historical lands once the dams were breached?
Do you anticipate the tribes allowing high and dry irrigation pumps to be extended down to the new waterline, potentially for quite a distance over old flood plains that were once utilized by the tribes for fishing and whatnot?
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I think in this feeling out process they are trying to determine who the most susceptible group is and then in the end, the weakest link gets the shaft. There will be winners and there will be losers.
Post by: MeepDog on August 26, 2022, 01:04:30 PM
As far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.That's an issue with the older style rod based reactors. The newer small modulars use a ball style uranium that doesn't melt down.
So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.
Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.
Post by: whacker1 on August 26, 2022, 01:30:59 PM
As far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.That's an issue with the older style rod based reactors. The newer small modulars use a ball style uranium that doesn't melt down.
So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.
Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.
Do you have a link or something for this info? i would like to educate myself on ball style uranium as that is a component i was not familiar.
Post by: MeepDog on August 26, 2022, 02:52:03 PM
https://x-energy.com/fuel/triso-xAs far as I know, the waste at Hanford has nothing to do with current power production. Its all from past weapons production.That's an issue with the older style rod based reactors. The newer small modulars use a ball style uranium that doesn't melt down.
So there is no correlation between the leaking tanks and building new nuclear power plants. There is a "what to do" with used rods however.
Anybody listen to Brett Weinsteins worries about nuclear energy? Bad guys hack into our power grid or a solar flare takes out the power grid for an extended period of time, no power to move cooling water through the reactor and it melts down. Huge disaster.
Do you have a link or something for this info? i would like to educate myself on ball style uranium as that is a component i was not familiar.
This is the style and manufacturer they are full tilt moving to put on the Hanford site. Small modular reactor Wikipedia page is also fascinating.
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 05:41:13 PM
Knock out all the dams. Every last one. Ancient tech that’s extremely outdated and not needed. Seals and birds would do a lot less harm if the fish weren’t trapped at the bases of the dams. Cant think of anything better than seeing the snake and the Columbia completely free of dams.
On another note, every time some bashes BHA on this site they never have anything they can actually pinpoint as to why. Its always their “agenda”, which they cant seem to explain, or they support something like better rivers for salmon so therefor I don’t like them…
Old fashioned and the MOST renewable energy source on the planet with no emissions. So California said nothing but electric vehicles by 2035. How are we going to power those? Coal fired power plants? That’s what you got without hydroelectric power. Sorry the windmills just aren’t quite getting it done. How about invest new technology INTO hydroelectric power? We could make fish ladders that clone salmon on the way over the damn with half the investment we have put into new “green” energy. We need to invest more in new and better hydroelectric power not get rid of it. It’s not the political correct renewable energy source but it’s by far the best.
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 05:47:10 PM
Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
This has been my question? What’s more renewable than hydroelectric power? Nothing and the river keeps flowing constantly. Why aren’t we investing in new technology for hydroelectric? With modern technology we could get every fish across any dam. I look at my iPhone I’m typing on and everything it can do and wonder why we don’t apply new technology to and old but reliable energy source. Hydroelectric was GREEN before it was cool ! Some people just don’t like to see a dam on their “backcountry “ fishing trip. Apparently giant wind farms don’t ruin their outdoor experience
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 06:02:14 PM
How would you wet siders feel if every ridge line you looked at had windmills?
Any vast plateau you live by was proposed for a solar farm?
Read the news. They want to line the Horse Heaven hills with windmills, cover the backside of Ratllesnake mtn with a solar farm and i just read they want to put another solar farm south of vantage.
Lets put all this in Puget sound eh? Lets see the west side of the state power everybody
They don’t know what they don’t know. When you put in a giant solar farm they sterilize all the soil in the area. You are PERMANENTLY removing habitat from the landscape forever. (Usually sage brush type mule deer habitat) in my opinion the one animal that can least afford habitat losses. Where is Bha on this? At least with an oil field the mule deer can still eat and winter in the area. The oilfield can be reclaimed and returned to prime habitat the solar field can’t and won’t. Hydroelectric is the original green energy but they refuse to invest in it. We’re still using 100 year old technology and it’s our cheapest, most renewable and dependable energy source. Think what could be done with a fraction of the investment thrown at new “green” energy. I don’t even have time to discuss windmills and the detriment they are to birds and the environment
Post by: grundy53 on August 26, 2022, 06:10:41 PM
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Post by: Jonathan_S on August 26, 2022, 06:20:17 PM
Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
The attrition to smolt heading downstream is a bigger problem than the return is what I have heard.
Post by: MeepDog on August 26, 2022, 06:29:51 PM
You're right we seriously need to improve adult fish passage. Even with adult passage at 100%, smolt survival from the predatory fish using the dams habitat will still hinder us. Walleye between priest rapids and mcnary eat 2.5 salmon smolts average per day and that's in one of the most free flowing stretches of water. Slow the water down like the snake and it can't be helping. Wind turbines suck, I work on them for a living, but with pump storage facilities that don't block the flow of the river they can be a reliable power source. Also they don't really kill birds, bats get it the worst.Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
This has been my question? What’s more renewable than hydroelectric power? Nothing and the river keeps flowing constantly. Why aren’t we investing in new technology for hydroelectric? With modern technology we could get every fish across any dam. I look at my iPhone I’m typing on and everything it can do and wonder why we don’t apply new technology to and old but reliable energy source. Hydroelectric was GREEN before it was cool ! Some people just don’t like to see a dam on their “backcountry “ fishing trip. Apparently giant wind farms don’t ruin their outdoor experience
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 06:38:53 PM
It's nice to see BHA getting so much heat, I was worried people had forgotten what a green decoy the org was after the WA chapter
-fought tooth and nail to save washington spring bear hunting to the very end
-stood up to anti-hunting commissioners in public testimony during the blue mountain cougars
-publicly called out the failure of the commission to prioritize blue mountain elk
-crafted a letter to the governor co-signed by every major national hunting organization about appointing better commissioner
-went on a media blitz about the state of the WDFW commission and threat to hunting in op-eds and podcasts to a national level
-pulled miles of fencing in mule deer habitat
- cleaned up a handful of public shooting sites
-adopted an access site
-hosted meetings for the public to engage directly with WDFW scientists
-helped craft/propose legislation that would prevent bad commissioners from getting appointed
-donated funds and labor to the first hunt foundation's youth deer hunt
all in 2022 so far
I was worried ya'll were going soft on them
So they don’t want dams. Fine, what is there stance on giant solar farms? Way more detrimental to habitat and the habitat loss is permanent. Every solar field proposed seems destined for prime mule deer habitat and winter range. They will sterilize all the soil beneath the solar farm. It’s permanently removing mainly mule deer habitat. The one animal that can least afford to lose any more winter range or habitat. Are they using your dollar effectively focusing on the snake river dams? What will replace hydroelectric and what affects will that have on wildlife? I guess we’ll find out. We could invest a fraction of the green energy billions into hydroelectric and come up with better solutions than basically guessing what might work and live with the consequences. We know what hydroelectric does we don’t know the long term affects of wind and solar. Except that solar most definitely permanently removes habitat forever and windmills kill birds and apparently a lot of bats
Post by: MeepDog on August 26, 2022, 06:46:42 PM
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 06:55:39 PM
You're right we seriously need to improve adult fish passage. Even with adult passage at 100%, smolt survival from the predatory fish using the dams habitat will still hinder us. Walleye between priest rapids and mcnary eat 2.5 salmon smolts average per day and that's in one of the most free flowing stretches of water. Slow the water down like the snake and it can't be helping. Wind turbines suck, I work on them for a living, but with pump storage facilities that don't block the flow of the river they can be a reliable power source. Also they don't really kill birds, bats get it the worst.Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
This has been my question? What’s more renewable than hydroelectric power? Nothing and the river keeps flowing constantly. Why aren’t we investing in new technology for hydroelectric? With modern technology we could get every fish across any dam. I look at my iPhone I’m typing on and everything it can do and wonder why we don’t apply new technology to and old but reliable energy source. Hydroelectric was GREEN before it was cool ! Some people just don’t like to see a dam on their “backcountry “ fishing trip. Apparently giant wind farms don’t ruin their outdoor experience
You are the 1 of only 2 people I know of that work on wind turbines. Both have said wind turbines suck :chuckle: thanks for the comment I think we have the technology to make fish passage and smolt survival way better. It’s just frustrating that no one will talk about it much less invest or throw government money at it. A guy that owned most of the land in north Idaho a long time ago was investing in getting hydroelectric from all the small creeks in the area. That was 40-50 years ago. Hydroelectric was green before it was cool ha ha. What’s more renewable? Nothing. What’s more reliable? Nothing. What are the emissions? Nothing. What do we invest in it? NOTHING :chuckle it’s frustrating to me that they want to destroy it when we should consider putting money and new technology into it. We have the technology to have great fish runs and abundant cheap hydroelectric power. There is just no desire from the people making the decisions
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 07:02:41 PM
Idaho guy, I've killed 10 x as many birds driving my truck to a turbine than I've found under a turbine dead. I could count on 1 hand the number of turbine killed birds I've found in 4 years of work.
I believe you :tup: i have no real first hand knowledge on turbines killing birds. But I did read about it on the internet lol. I am more opposed to the giant solar farms and the resulting permanent habitat loss. Mostly winter range. I have really become just a pro hydroelectric guy-we haven’t invested hardly anything in new ways to harness hydroelectric power and it makes no sense to me. Worse yet people are working to destroy it rather than improve it
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 26, 2022, 08:05:23 PM
Idaho guy, I've killed 10 x as many birds driving my truck to a turbine than I've found under a turbine dead. I could count on 1 hand the number of turbine killed birds I've found in 4 years of work.Turbines mostly kill large raptors and such--eagles, hawks, etc. For all species of birds, housecats in suburbia tend to kill over a billion birds annually, I'm guessing not too many eagles or hawks.
Post by: JBG on August 26, 2022, 08:06:22 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on August 26, 2022, 08:22:35 PM
Not to derail too much but a guy at work and I were both discussing these dams and neither of us has enough info to form an opinion but he asked why no one is talking about an improved fish ladder system or those fish cannons or? Surely for the financial cost of removing them a better fish return system could be funded maybe?
As for BHA, they're a mission focused organization and this seems on mission for them. Like them or not but they're doing what they say they do aren't they?
The attrition to smolt heading downstream is a bigger problem than the return is what I have heard.
See, told you I don't know enough! Maybe we fund salmon going up and down stream, that still has to be cheaper than taking down the dams and all the hullabaloo that goes with it.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 26, 2022, 09:45:32 PM
Saw their agenda 20 tears ago when I was a WSSA member and they can move in with their buddy Insleaze or your favorite commission membersI looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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Post by: Tbar on August 26, 2022, 10:37:33 PM
Saw their agenda 20 tears ago when I was a WSSA member and they can move in with their buddy Insleaze or your favorite commission membersI looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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It's funny where the attacks are coming from. Show me a more active group calling out the commission right now. Please! On a side note, I am not a BHA member but have tracked the commission pretty closely.
Post by: idaho guy on August 26, 2022, 10:53:10 PM
Idaho Guy, would you be good with the new nuclear energy start up at Hanford taking over the need for hydro dams? I gotta think cold, free flowing rivers would greatly benefit wildlife as the dams kind of act like the solar panels and greatly mess up anything under and above them.
I’m for nuclear just not by my house ha ha. I think we could have cold free flowing rivers with hydroelectric power. No one has tried anything new with dams they are just obsessed with removing them. It’s the safest renewable energy source we have. Not having had large scale nuclear energy production as a Country before, I think there could be dangers we aren’t even aware of. But I do think Nuclear should be part of the energy solution. Why not harness hydro? We just need to invest in new technology and ways of doing it. The technology is there but apparently there’s no money in it because the politicians etc won’t even talk about it. Just rip the old dams out ? Doesn’t make sense especially when they are working hard to double our electric power consumption.
Post by: KFhunter on August 27, 2022, 06:50:13 AM
Like a little mini sun
Post by: dwils233 on August 27, 2022, 10:43:00 AM
Saw their agenda 20 tears ago when I was a WSSA member and they can move in with their buddy Insleaze or your favorite commission membersI looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
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If you think BHA is working to undermine hunting via the commission I have to assume you have either not watched what they've been doing for the last 2 years, or you think they are playing a very underhanded and nefarious game to destroy hunting in this state by standing up for it.
In regards to the snake river dams, two things can be true at the same time
1. Removal of the dams is widely regarded as a critical requirement to stave off extirpation of salmon and steelhead in those waters
2. Removal of the dams poses massive deleterious outcomes that must be resolved first, if they can be resolved at all (barging, power replacement, etc)
I think BHA is advocating for #1 but I haven't seen anything dismissing #2. I would imagine that an event advocating for #1 would be a perfect place to discuss #2 with those parties, particularly with vocal advocates for removal. They should be asked how they have considered the impacts and mitigation ideas. I think it's reasonable that BHA, within their mission, would be in favor of removal and I don't think they are ignoring the facts that we have to answer all the questions around removal.
I don't think BHA is obligated to host an oppositional debate panel to something within their mission, any more than SCI is required to give equal time to PETA at their convention. I do think BHA is well served by listening to opposing views and answering questions and I bet that's something that can be done at this event. A debate between two entrenched and oppositional positions usually just results in talking points being lobbed across the room- I think thats less beneficial than showing up to an event held by opposition and just asking questions with honesty and transparency.
BHA is never going to be all things to all people, and it is likely going to take positions on things that some hunters, anglers and members might oppose. Some members didn't want them to weigh in on spring bear, others want them to stay out of salmon issues. The challenge therein, is choosing the right amount of energy and emphasis to apply, and hopefully doing it with enough nuance to be effective and intelligent. If you're looking for an organization that you agree with 100% of the time, I think it'll be a lifelong challenge. I work with BHA because I agree with most of what they do, not everything.
I think the WA chapter, which is just a bunch of volunteers, has proven to be sportsmen and women who really care about hunting/wildlife in washington. I think nationals can be a mixed bag. That means I'm about 75% in agreement with what they do and thats good enough for me. I can also tell that for some people, even if you agreed with 95% of what they did, it wouldn't be enough. Different strokes. What I don't understand is when people take any opportunity to attack an org (not accusing the OP of that).
Can BHA be better? absolutely and the same can be said of plenty of non-profits. But I think they are working hard to prove to this state that they do care about hunting and habitat. If you don't like the way they are engaging on an issue, talk to them and ask why they did it and give them hard questions. But there is a difference between good faith criticism and bad faith denigration. Only one of those fosters improvement. I would think that after the last 18 months or so, WA BHA had earned some wary trust from hunters but its obvious they will never be the right org for everyone.
As far as solar impacts on habitat, WA BHA has done a lot of work in the shrub steppe for sage grouse cover/feed and fence removal for mule deer habitat. I can't imagine a world where they would put that on the table as an easy trade for salmon/steelhead. Thats why its an important to question to ask them how they resolve the two.
Post by: NumaJohn on August 27, 2022, 11:01:52 AM
John
(full disclosure: I am a longtime and continuing BHA member)
Saw their agenda 20 tears ago when I was a WSSA member and they can move in with their buddy Insleaze or your favorite commission membersI looked at their Facebook page for a few weeks when I was thinking of joining. They have a deep and passionate hatred of anyone who doesn’t follow their agenda to the letter.. I changed my mind about joining,I'm not surprised one bit. I'm just disappointed I ever gave them money.me too. BHA Looks great at first glance but take a deeper look and :yike:
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
If you think BHA is working to undermine hunting via the commission I have to assume you have either not watched what they've been doing for the last 2 years, or you think they are playing a very underhanded and nefarious game to destroy hunting in this state by standing up for it.
In regards to the snake river dams, two things can be true at the same time
1. Removal of the dams is widely regarded as a critical requirement to stave off extirpation of salmon and steelhead in those waters
2. Removal of the dams poses massive deleterious outcomes that must be resolved first, if they can be resolved at all (barging, power replacement, etc)
I think BHA is advocating for #1 but I haven't seen anything dismissing #2. I would imagine that an event advocating for #1 would be a perfect place to discuss #2 with those parties, particularly with vocal advocates for removal. They should be asked how they have considered the impacts and mitigation ideas. I think it's reasonable that BHA, within their mission, would be in favor of removal and I don't think they are ignoring the facts that we have to answer all the questions around removal.
I don't think BHA is obligated to host an oppositional debate panel to something within their mission, any more than SCI is required to give equal time to PETA at their convention. I do think BHA is well served by listening to opposing views and answering questions and I bet that's something that can be done at this event. A debate between two entrenched and oppositional positions usually just results in talking points being lobbed across the room- I think thats less beneficial than showing up to an event held by opposition and just asking questions with honesty and transparency.
BHA is never going to be all things to all people, and it is likely going to take positions on things that some hunters, anglers and members might oppose. Some members didn't want them to weigh in on spring bear, others want them to stay out of salmon issues. The challenge therein, is choosing the right amount of energy and emphasis to apply, and hopefully doing it with enough nuance to be effective and intelligent. If you're looking for an organization that you agree with 100% of the time, I think it'll be a lifelong challenge. I work with BHA because I agree with most of what they do, not everything.
I think the WA chapter, which is just a bunch of volunteers, has proven to be sportsmen and women who really care about hunting/wildlife in washington. I think nationals can be a mixed bag. That means I'm about 75% in agreement with what they do and thats good enough for me. I can also tell that for some people, even if you agreed with 95% of what they did, it wouldn't be enough. Different strokes. What I don't understand is when people take any opportunity to attack an org (not accusing the OP of that).
Can BHA be better? absolutely and the same can be said of plenty of non-profits. But I think they are working hard to prove to this state that they do care about hunting and habitat. If you don't like the way they are engaging on an issue, talk to them and ask why they did it and give them hard questions. But there is a difference between good faith criticism and bad faith denigration. Only one of those fosters improvement. I would think that after the last 18 months or so, WA BHA had earned some wary trust from hunters but its obvious they will never be the right org for everyone.
As far as solar impacts on habitat, WA BHA has done a lot of work in the shrub steppe for sage grouse cover/feed and fence removal for mule deer habitat. I can't imagine a world where they would put that on the table as an easy trade for salmon/steelhead. Thats why its an important to question to ask them how they resolve the two.