Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 01:43:55 PM
Four hours left to get your bids in. Sitting at $92,000 right now.
Post by: asmith on April 04, 2024, 01:49:30 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 01:49:57 PM
It’s fun to watch the last few minutes of all of the auctions they are doing as the numbers just keep going up.
They add time on to the auction if bids keep coming in to get maximum dollars.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 02:01:20 PM
Only $92k? Pocket change to these bidders :chuckle: :chuckle:Here is where the real money is
Post by: trophyhunt on April 04, 2024, 02:04:04 PM
Post by: asmith on April 04, 2024, 02:13:23 PM
Only $92k? Pocket change to these bidders :chuckle: :chuckle:Here is where the real money is
I saw those, hence why I said pocket change :chuckle:
If I could, I definitely would. One day when I hit the lottery for sure.
Post by: brokenvet on April 04, 2024, 02:30:04 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 04, 2024, 02:33:16 PM
Geez, for that much money, you can take an Africa hunt and harvest more game.
...or three.
Post by: deerlick on April 04, 2024, 03:00:37 PM
Post by: time2hunt on April 04, 2024, 04:38:28 PM
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Post by: elkrack on April 04, 2024, 04:42:11 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 04:52:23 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 04, 2024, 04:55:59 PM
Post by: Gentrys on April 04, 2024, 05:14:45 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 04, 2024, 05:30:05 PM
Must be a really good target bull this year
I'm not trying to argue, but how would they know that in April?
Post by: kentrek on April 04, 2024, 05:40:12 PM
Must be a really good target bull this year
I'm not trying to argue, but how would they know that in April?
Because it's there job
Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 05:42:46 PM
I’m guessing a good one showed up on winter ground.Must be a really good target bull this year
I'm not trying to argue, but how would they know that in April?
It’s a gamble. We had a 400” bull drop antlers and then never to be seen again.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 05:46:25 PM
Post by: pickardjw on April 04, 2024, 05:56:08 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 04, 2024, 05:57:56 PM
Must be a really good target bull this year
I'm not trying to argue, but how would they know that in April?
Because it's there job
Yeah, but a prime mega bull doesn't always come back as big or bigger.
I just don't see how they can have a target bull iun April, and was hoping someone could shed some light on that.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 04, 2024, 06:17:14 PM
Post by: elkrack on April 04, 2024, 06:20:48 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 04, 2024, 08:38:14 PM
Dang $213K is a good chunk of change for a WA elk tag for sure.
Post by: kentrek on April 04, 2024, 08:51:02 PM
Must be a really good target bull this year
I'm not trying to argue, but how would they know that in April?
Because it's there job
Yeah, but a prime mega bull doesn't always come back as big or bigger.
I just don't see how they can have a target bull iun April, and was hoping someone could shed some light on that.
I would assume they have multiple target bulls and a good sales pitch and the right client
You can't predict if a bull is going to blow up or be stagnant but if you had 4-5 380-420 type bulls
The odds are in your favor...if the top end was 450 you would have a heck of a carrot and thus the price is accordingly
Or it's just by chance, hard telling the driver... if I was old and semi wealthy and just got bad news from the doc you know dang well I'd be buying up tags before the government took another chuck in inheritance tax lol
Post by: Dan-o on April 04, 2024, 09:46:40 PM
Must be a really good target bull this year
I'm not trying to argue, but how would they know that in April?
Because it's there job
Yeah, but a prime mega bull doesn't always come back as big or bigger.
I just don't see how they can have a target bull iun April, and was hoping someone could shed some light on that.
I would assume they have multiple target bulls and a good sales pitch and the right client
You can't predict if a bull is going to blow up or be stagnant but if you had 4-5 380-420 type bulls
The odds are in your favor...if the top end was 450 you would have a heck of a carrot and thus the price is accordingly
Or it's just by chance, hard telling the driver... if I was old and semi wealthy and just got bad news from the doc you know dang well I'd be buying up tags before the government took another chuck in inheritance tax lol
Copy.
Thanks.
Post by: Gentrys on April 04, 2024, 10:20:30 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 08, 2024, 06:45:51 AM
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on April 08, 2024, 06:57:28 AM
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 08, 2024, 04:46:50 PM
As usual on here, I will most likely get flogged on here for saying this.......
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
I don't think auction hunters are the problem with the herds, they might be one of the few reasons we get to keep hunting. I think it is great people give this type of money to support wildlife as opposed to funding things I am against.
Post by: kentrek on April 08, 2024, 05:25:22 PM
Wouldn’t it be just mud in their eye ……. If the wolves got their target bull.
Who knows maybe they don't even have a target bull...maybe it's an older guy going on his last hunt and just wants to enjoy a cool experience and share it with as many friends and family as possible...probably using a lever action 45/70 and hunting in blue jeans :hello:
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 08, 2024, 06:38:29 PM
As usual on here, I will most likely get flogged on here for saying this.......
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
I don't think auction hunters are the problem with the herds, they might be one of the few reasons we get to keep hunting. I think it is great people give this type of money to support wildlife as opposed to funding things I am against.
No, not the problem, but def. not good for our sport. I would be hugely surprised if any of these monies spent actually went to support hunting....my hunch is it prolly does more for the wolf/griz than the ungulates. We ALL know how well the commish & WDFW have done at maintaining ungulates. ;)
This type of "hunting" is nothing more than the wealthy buying public resources, AND, can only be viewed as Trophy hunting. Any guesses on how many of these $$$$$ hunts are about filling the freezer........or about the "400"
Ask some non hunters what they think about a guy paying 100K+ to shoot 1 elk
I have said this before, If these $$$$ guys are so concerned about supporting the ungulates.......pony up the $$ and don't shoot a bull.........but that is not what its about for them.......gotta grip and grin a 400"r and put it up in the man cave next to the last 12 they shot.
Post by: time2hunt on April 08, 2024, 06:54:47 PM
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Post by: idahohuntr on April 08, 2024, 07:23:24 PM
To be clear...they aren't giving anything. They are paying FMV.As usual on here, I will most likely get flogged on here for saying this.......
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
I don't think auction hunters are the problem with the herds, they might be one of the few reasons we get to keep hunting. I think it is great people give this type of money to support wildlife as opposed to funding things I am against.
I agree with Nock...more harm than good...mostly a negative for the average sportsmen. Glad AZ is ending them...and I doubt they'll exist in WA, CO, and other states in the near future.
Post by: highcountry_hunter on April 08, 2024, 08:12:14 PM
Agreed. However I am very much in support of raffle hunts. For a small fee everyone has a chance. I’ve heard on podcasts that in other states the money raised goes directly to supporting the species that the tag is for, not sure if that’s the case in Washington or not. I doubt they’d tell us anyways and I wouldn’t believe them if they did.To be clear...they aren't giving anything. They are paying FMV.As usual on here, I will most likely get flogged on here for saying this.......
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
I don't think auction hunters are the problem with the herds, they might be one of the few reasons we get to keep hunting. I think it is great people give this type of money to support wildlife as opposed to funding things I am against.
I agree with Nock...more harm than good...mostly a negative for the average sportsmen. Glad AZ is ending them...and I doubt they'll exist in WA, CO, and other states in the near future.
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Post by: 2MANY on April 08, 2024, 08:39:15 PM
Post by: time2hunt on April 08, 2024, 09:42:38 PM
Your ok with raffle tags but it’s the same people that are bidding on the Governor tag that are buying the raffle tags and winningAgreed. However I am very much in support of raffle hunts. For a small fee everyone has a chance. I’ve heard on podcasts that in other states the money raised goes directly to supporting the species that the tag is for, not sure if that’s the case in Washington or not. I doubt they’d tell us anyways and I wouldn’t believe them if they did.To be clear...they aren't giving anything. They are paying FMV.As usual on here, I will most likely get flogged on here for saying this.......
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
I don't think auction hunters are the problem with the herds, they might be one of the few reasons we get to keep hunting. I think it is great people give this type of money to support wildlife as opposed to funding things I am against.
I agree with Nock...more harm than good...mostly a negative for the average sportsmen. Glad AZ is ending them...and I doubt they'll exist in WA, CO, and other states in the near future.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 09, 2024, 06:28:54 AM
Sucky that the wealthy can basically (like idaho said, buy / not give) the raffles. But at the same time, at least an average hunter can have a chance as opposed to the auction.
As hunters we need to project a likeable/understandable/good image of our sport if it's going to have ANY chance of surviving.
Dads/Grandpas in the field with their kids smiling.........or rich guys paying unworldly prices and having a mob of "employees" scouting 400"rs for them just to add another trophy to the pile.
Which image best supports hunting? Shouldn't have any disagreement on this :dunno:
Post by: Ironhead on April 09, 2024, 07:09:09 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 09, 2024, 07:24:43 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2024, 07:58:35 AM
A limit on raffle tags would give the same odds as the special permit draws would if we got rid of the point system and those odds suck.That would be my preference...every limited tag/permit goes in the regular draw. Instead of an Eastern WA auction tag...its a quality permit, valid for all of Eastern WA Sep 1- Dec 31. Yes, odds will not be great, but that's the most consistent with NAMWC.
Post by: Ironhead on April 09, 2024, 08:04:58 AM
A limit on raffle tags would give the same odds as the special permit draws would if we got rid of the point system and those odds suck.
How do you think the odds are now for people spending 50.00 compared to someone dropping 10,000.00 or more. Those odds suck as well.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 09, 2024, 08:12:10 AM
Im talking odds of drawing not odds compared to others in the pool.A limit on raffle tags would give the same odds as the special permit draws would if we got rid of the point system and those odds suck.
How do you think the odds are now for people spending 50.00 compared to someone dropping 10,000.00 or more. Those odds suck as well.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 09, 2024, 08:22:24 AM
How's one of these guys chasing a 400 bull any different then one of us drawing a coveted tag and looking for a 400. Besides them dropping 200k to do it and us waiting 20 years living on a prayer...
Or any quality tag for that matter. Isn't that the goal.. opportunity at an quality animal.
The only thing I wouldn't mind seeing how the money is spent but that requires transparency from wdfw...
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 09, 2024, 10:10:44 AM
As usual on here, I will most likely get flogged on here for saying this.......
Makes me want to :puke:
Go ahead with the "I'm Jealous" or "How much money these spenders are providing for the species" ....... yet most of our herds are in decline, or the dumps.
Then tomorrow we'll all go back to complaining about how horrible ungulate hunting is in WA, and "predator pit" talk.
Glorifying things that are detrimental to our sport/heritage/passions........we are our own worst enemy!.......Hunting, in any resemblance of how we want it to be, is MOST Definitely doomed!
I don't think auction hunters are the problem with the herds, they might be one of the few reasons we get to keep hunting. I think it is great people give this type of money to support wildlife as opposed to funding things I am against.
No, not the problem, but def. not good for our sport. I would be hugely surprised if any of these monies spent actually went to support hunting....my hunch is it prolly does more for the wolf/griz than the ungulates. We ALL know how well the commish & WDFW have done at maintaining ungulates. ;)
This type of "hunting" is nothing more than the wealthy buying public resources, AND, can only be viewed as Trophy hunting. Any guesses on how many of these $$$$$ hunts are about filling the freezer........or about the "400"
Ask some non hunters what they think about a guy paying 100K+ to shoot 1 elk
I have said this before, If these $$$$ guys are so concerned about supporting the ungulates.......pony up the $$ and don't shoot a bull.........but that is not what its about for them.......gotta grip and grin a 400"r and put it up in the man cave next to the last 12 they shot.
So if they just donate the $200k you are ok with that, but if they get to shoot a bull for donating the $200k then that is a problem? I agree that the money should be accountable to go to that species (and in other states it absolutely does, and they show where it goes). If I could donate any amount of money, or donate the same amount and get something for it, I will take something for it.
The world is set up to benefit those with more resources, those people live in nicer neighborhoods, drive nicer cars, take nicer vacations, and also pay a lot more taxes to help run all the free programs.
Are you against people going on guided hunts on outfitter allocated tags too? It is really the same thing, except auction tags go to the organization who sells them to be spent on conservation, instead of just into another persons hands.
We can agree to disagree, but I couldn't disagree more. If they had more of these tags, that would be problematic, but 1 tag per species to help raise funds that otherwise wouldn't get spent, I feel is a win for conservation if the money is used correctly.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2024, 10:27:38 AM
If they had more of these tags, that would be problematic, but 1 tag per species to help raise funds that otherwise wouldn't get spent, I feel is a win for conservation if the money is used correctly.The 'funds for conservation' argument doesn't hold water. It is a charade to allow for some deviation from the NAMWC. It is just not logical to suggest auction tags amount to anything remotely meaningful when it comes to wildlife conservation and management.
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 09, 2024, 10:54:39 AM
How is it not logical. It provides additional funding that can be spent to support conservation. I am not saying in WA, it is used how it should be, but the funds are there and if used correctly, provide a great opportunity for conservation, I don't think that in anything other than logical. If you argue that, you just don't like the tags, and that is your choice, but I am don't intend to argue my point any further.If they had more of these tags, that would be problematic, but 1 tag per species to help raise funds that otherwise wouldn't get spent, I feel is a win for conservation if the money is used correctly.The 'funds for conservation' argument doesn't hold water. It is a charade to allow for some deviation from the NAMWC. It is just not logical to suggest auction tags amount to anything remotely meaningful when it comes to wildlife conservation and management.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2024, 11:01:27 AM
We all have the chance to score a big bull. The record books don't only contain a list of rich people. And, we all have the opportunity to become rich and buy expensive tags. Adding this tag to the annual draw would only result in the loss of $200K in conservation funds. I wish the hunter best of luck in filling that tag with the bull of a lifetime. And I hope we can all concentrate more on the real threats to our hunting heritage.
Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2024, 11:11:39 AM
I don't feel that this opposes the NAMWC. I think it supports it with money that'll be used by F&W for whatever purpose (other than raises for the Commission). I would prefer that the money specifically go for elk habitat restoration, etc.[/b]
We all have the chance to score a big bull. The record books don't only contain a list of rich people. And, we all have the opportunity to become rich and buy expensive tags. Adding this tag to the annual draw would only result in the loss of $200K in conservation funds. I wish the hunter best of luck in filling that tag with the bull of a lifetime. And I hope we can all concentrate more on the real threats to our hunting heritage.
These tags are a deviation and an absolute threat to the future of hunting, specifically to the rank and file hunter.
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 09, 2024, 11:21:47 AM
I don't feel that this opposes the NAMWC. I think it supports it with money that'll be used by F&W for whatever purpose (other than raises for the Commission). I would prefer that the money specifically go for elk habitat restoration, etc.[/b]
We all have the chance to score a big bull. The record books don't only contain a list of rich people. And, we all have the opportunity to become rich and buy expensive tags. Adding this tag to the annual draw would only result in the loss of $200K in conservation funds. I wish the hunter best of luck in filling that tag with the bull of a lifetime. And I hope we can all concentrate more on the real threats to our hunting heritage.
These tags are a deviation and an absolute threat to the future of hunting, specifically to the rank and file hunter.
I'm a rank and file hunter and I respectfully disagree, TBar. The threats to our hunting are far more pressing than the auction of a single elk tag. And, they include a radical left influence on our Wildlife Commission which is daily limiting our opportunity, statewide and in every aspect of our hunting.
Post by: time2hunt on April 09, 2024, 11:36:10 AM
Once again Tbar there are more 400 inch bulls shoot by tribal members then one Governor or raffle tag holder Is that not devastating the herds?I don't feel that this opposes the NAMWC. I think it supports it with money that'll be used by F&W for whatever purpose (other than raises for the Commission). I would prefer that the money specifically go for elk habitat restoration, etc.[/b]
We all have the chance to score a big bull. The record books don't only contain a list of rich people. And, we all have the opportunity to become rich and buy expensive tags. Adding this tag to the annual draw would only result in the loss of $200K in conservation funds. I wish the hunter best of luck in filling that tag with the bull of a lifetime. And I hope we can all concentrate more on the real threats to our hunting heritage.
These tags are a deviation and an absolute threat to the future of hunting, specifically to the rank and file hunter.
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Post by: Tbar on April 09, 2024, 11:46:32 AM
I don't disagree at all. It's a deviation of the namwc and conflicts several of the pillars. The threat is not in devastating herds but the future of hunting.Once again Tbar there are more 400 inch bulls shoot by tribal members then one Governor or raffle tag holder Is that not devastating the herds?I don't feel that this opposes the NAMWC. I think it supports it with money that'll be used by F&W for whatever purpose (other than raises for the Commission). I would prefer that the money specifically go for elk habitat restoration, etc.[/b]
We all have the chance to score a big bull. The record books don't only contain a list of rich people. And, we all have the opportunity to become rich and buy expensive tags. Adding this tag to the annual draw would only result in the loss of $200K in conservation funds. I wish the hunter best of luck in filling that tag with the bull of a lifetime. And I hope we can all concentrate more on the real threats to our hunting heritage.
These tags are a deviation and an absolute threat to the future of hunting, specifically to the rank and file hunter.
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Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2024, 11:59:10 AM
Its not logical because it doesn't move the needle one bit. The WDFW has a $1 billion+ biennium capital and operating budget. The auction revenue isn't even a drop in the bucket. Yet, the deviation from NAMWC and the management strategies required to support interest/revenue from auction tags requires a disproportionate sacrifice from the average hunter. Bottom line - I'm not willing to look the other way on the most basic premise of wildlife management and the public trust doctrine for fractions of decimals in the overall budget allocated to conservation/wildlife management.How is it not logical. It provides additional funding that can be spent to support conservation. I am not saying in WA, it is used how it should be, but the funds are there and if used correctly, provide a great opportunity for conservation, I don't think that in anything other than logical. If you argue that, you just don't like the tags, and that is your choice, but I am don't intend to argue my point any further.If they had more of these tags, that would be problematic, but 1 tag per species to help raise funds that otherwise wouldn't get spent, I feel is a win for conservation if the money is used correctly.The 'funds for conservation' argument doesn't hold water. It is a charade to allow for some deviation from the NAMWC. It is just not logical to suggest auction tags amount to anything remotely meaningful when it comes to wildlife conservation and management.
And I want to be crystal clear: I have no ill-will towards any auction tag buyer/participant. They are playing by the rules and I'm sure most are wonderful people. Its the rules/laws allowing auction tags that I despise.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 09, 2024, 12:49:36 PM
I’m guessing 2024 will be higher than 2023.
I think the WDFW budget is $1.02 billion dollars for two years so $500 million a year. I think more than half of it goes to marine projects like salmon restoration. So let’s say $220 million goes to big game, that means $600,000 from auction tags is adding 0.27% to the big game budget if I’m doing my math correct.
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 09, 2024, 12:53:00 PM
Auction revenue the past two years 2022 was $572,250 and 2023 was $609,500.
I’m guessing 2024 will be higher than 2023.
I think the WDFW budget is $1.02 billion dollars for two years so $500 million a year. I think more than half of it goes to marine projects like salmon restoration. So let’s say $220 million goes to big game, that means $600,000 from auction tags is adding 0.27% to the big game budget if I’m doing my math correct.
A lot of that is salaries too, that are a fixed cost. It would be interesting to see what is what a family would consider as disposable revenue, I have a feeling the auction proceeds are a decent portion of that, if it was pooled for several years, land could be bought and turned into a trust and kept public forever. If managed correctly this money does can make a significant difference.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2024, 01:08:06 PM
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 09, 2024, 01:12:12 PM
So - if the need is $6-700k in additional revenue to do good things for wildlife - is auctioning a bunch of tags the only option? Of course not. I'm all for properly resourcing conservation and wildlife management...but I'm not supportive of violating principles of the NAMWC and engaging in actions that threaten the future of hunting to get that extra $700k. The publicity of even a small number of these tags can significantly influence public perception and support for hunting. Just not worth it...especially in states where ballot box biology is alive and well.
How specifically is it violating the NAMWC? I understand your argument that it can be viewed poorly, but in our world today, pick any topic and a portion of people will view positive and a portion negative, so we can't control that. I support these auction tags, but if you are saying this is against NAMWC please show me, convince me, and turn my opinion.
Post by: dvolmer on April 09, 2024, 01:14:22 PM
These tags are a deviation and an absolute threat to the future of hunting, specifically to the rank and file hunter.
[/quote]
Well said. I totally agree!
Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2024, 01:25:29 PM
It violates the NAMWC in that it offers wildlife to the highest bidder, reserving for them a greater opportunity/access to public wildlife (a contradiction to at least 2 of the 7 principles). Auction tags are much more akin to the European system we so correctly deviated from...where it was the "Kings" game...not for the peasants.So - if the need is $6-700k in additional revenue to do good things for wildlife - is auctioning a bunch of tags the only option? Of course not. I'm all for properly resourcing conservation and wildlife management...but I'm not supportive of violating principles of the NAMWC and engaging in actions that threaten the future of hunting to get that extra $700k. The publicity of even a small number of these tags can significantly influence public perception and support for hunting. Just not worth it...especially in states where ballot box biology is alive and well.
How specifically is it violating the NAMWC? I understand your argument that it can be viewed poorly, but in our world today, pick any topic and a portion of people will view positive and a portion negative, so we can't control that. I support these auction tags, but if you are saying this is against NAMWC please show me, convince me, and turn my opinion.
The logical counter-argument is - well its just a small number of tags and it raises a lot of money to help the publics wildlife. Which is where I've been arguing that I don't think the money is hard to replace and I don't think it moves the needle in helping the public wildlife...so why dip our toe into the Euro system of reserving the best game for "kings"?
I'm not trying to convince you to change your opinion of auction tags - you are absolutely entitled to your view and many good folks hold a different opinion than mine.
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 09, 2024, 01:35:59 PM
In 2023 here is what was raised in raffle tag proceeds.
Sheep 6,296 tickets @ $11.50/each = $72,404
Blacktail 1,4898 tickets @ $6/each = $8,988
Mule Deer 4,569 tickets @ $6/each =$27,414
White Tail 1,905 tickets @ $6/each = $11,430
Eastside Elk 11,301 tickets @ $6/each =$67,806
Westside Elk $2,481 tickets @ $6/each = $14,886
Moose with (2) tags 8,011 tickets @ $6/each = $48,066 or $24,033/each
Mountain Goat 4,524 tickets @ $6/each = $27,144
Three Deer 1,657 tickets @ $17each = $28,169
That is a total of $306,307
The auction proceeds for those same animals were:
Sheep = $256,500
Blacktail = $7,500
Mule Deer = $42,500
White Tail = $7,500
Eastside Elk = $132,000
Westside Elk = $50,000
Moose with (1) tag = $50,000
Mountain Goat = $26,000
Three Deer = $37,500
That is a total of $609,500
These tags do the exact same thing, but the raffle brings in 1/2 the money. You also had one less Moose tag that would have brought close to another $50,000 given it was bid up that high. Only difference is everyone has a fraction of an opportunity. How are these any different for the NAMWC.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 09, 2024, 06:16:55 PM
So - if the need is $6-700k in additional revenue to do good things for wildlife (wildlife is also cats/griz/wolves)- is auctioning a bunch of tags the only option? Of course not. I'm all for properly resourcing conservation and wildlife management...but I'm not supportive of violating principles of the NAMWC and engaging in actions that threaten the future of hunting to get that extra $700k. The publicity of even a small number of these tags (think Bullwinkle) can significantly influence public perception and support for hunting. Just not worth it...especially in states where ballot box biology is alive and well.
THIS, :yeah: with a couple of emphasis
Shane, that is showing current results,........What if....... raffle permits were capped at say 5/10? I know I would buy more than my current 2-3 of the ones I buy. I would bet a large sum of money that capping the raffle would increase sales (knowing that a persons 1-5 tickets are not competing with the dude that spend $5k+
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 09, 2024, 06:32:20 PM
How many massive sheep/elk/moose/etc. does one guy need to kill?
If I was in the position to spend 20-$200k every year to kill one animal.................knowing that there are average dudes out there who would give their left dangler for a chance to shoot just 1.........I would feel like a total Dbag about my self being so unfriendly to another hunter.
Just because your wealthy.......does not mean you have to have no respect for your fellow sportsman.
Me, I'd buy the auction permit, in the name of a pre selected fellow hunter whom I felt deserved it...... more than me, shooting 5 sheep/elk/moose cause I could.
I was taught to share my good fortunes!
Peace out!
Post by: highcountry_hunter on April 09, 2024, 07:53:59 PM
You guys all support the raffle tags, but they don't work as well.Thanks for putting this together for us! That’s good info. Maybe instead of bickering amongst ourselves we should be asking WDFW where the money from these raffles auctions went to and why they weren’t used for habitat restoration and improvement for each species.
In 2023 here is what was raised in raffle tag proceeds.
Sheep 6,296 tickets @ $11.50/each = $72,404
Blacktail 1,4898 tickets @ $6/each = $8,988
Mule Deer 4,569 tickets @ $6/each =$27,414
White Tail 1,905 tickets @ $6/each = $11,430
Eastside Elk 11,301 tickets @ $6/each =$67,806
Westside Elk $2,481 tickets @ $6/each = $14,886
Moose with (2) tags 8,011 tickets @ $6/each = $48,066 or $24,033/each
Mountain Goat 4,524 tickets @ $6/each = $27,144
Three Deer 1,657 tickets @ $17each = $28,169
That is a total of $306,307
The auction proceeds for those same animals were:
Sheep = $256,500
Blacktail = $7,500
Mule Deer = $42,500
White Tail = $7,500
Eastside Elk = $132,000
Westside Elk = $50,000
Moose with (1) tag = $50,000
Mountain Goat = $26,000
Three Deer = $37,500
That is a total of $609,500
These tags do the exact same thing, but the raffle brings in 1/2 the money. You also had one less Moose tag that would have brought close to another $50,000 given it was bid up that high. Only difference is everyone has a fraction of an opportunity. How are these any different for the NAMWC.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 09, 2024, 08:05:29 PM
Over 3 million came from sheep tags alone...
Are these auctions a bad look and bad for average hunters.. :dunno:
I'm certainly not offended.
Apparently neither is NACM spokesman Mahoney.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 10, 2024, 05:46:06 AM
Is it not selling of public property to the highest bidder?
Wild Animals being "public property" is another hard one for me. They are, and should be free roaming, and owned by no one. Managed of course, but not owned. Auction permits are not managing, simply a money grab. If WDFW does anything that costs hunters more we complain, but this type of deal we celebrate. :dunno:
Post by: huntnnw on April 10, 2024, 06:48:21 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 10, 2024, 06:51:26 AM
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 10, 2024, 08:02:53 AM
what these auction tags in AZ did was a lot! and AZ was the most transparent western state when it came to these tags and how money was spent. These auction tags for sheep have helped put alot more sheep on the mountain which in turn give the avg joe more tags to apply for.
Exactly, we can't control what WA does with the money, but suggesting the tag sells don't generate more opportunity for conservation is crazy. Arizona, Utah and other states have put more sheep on the mountain through auction tags. You need the right people in control of the purse strings.
One thing Utah does right is giving the the tags to conservation organizations to auction, that way they control the proceeds and how they are spent.
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2024, 08:25:50 AM
what these auction tags in AZ did was a lot! and AZ was the most transparent western state when it came to these tags and how money was spent. These auction tags for sheep have helped put alot more sheep on the mountain which in turn give the avg joe more tags to apply for.
Exactly, we can't control what WA does with the money, but suggesting the tag sells don't generate more opportunity for conservation is crazy. Arizona, Utah and other states have put more sheep on the mountain through auction tags. You need the right people in control of the purse strings.
One thing Utah does right is giving the the tags to conservation organizations to auction, that way they control the proceeds and how they are spent.
Utah is the (Crown) jewel of the conservation fears. It's managed for the sale of wildlife. What do you define as conservation? More opportunity? Or more inches and less opportunity like Utah? If we are talking about damage to rank and file, Utah is a prime example of a switch to a hybrid kings model. If we want opportunity and to stick to the principle of democratic rule we quickly switch from broad support within the non hunting public to almost complete damnation. Society rejection of strict trophy hunting is very clear. While support for general hunting is at least in the ~70% range.
Post by: Houndhunter on April 10, 2024, 08:29:32 AM
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2024, 08:40:54 AM
Why wouldn't a state utilize a renewable resource to raise money? It's a handful of tags that raises an incredible amount of money for wildlife.
Is it a commodity or a public trust resource?
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 10, 2024, 08:51:40 AM
what these auction tags in AZ did was a lot! and AZ was the most transparent western state when it came to these tags and how money was spent. These auction tags for sheep have helped put alot more sheep on the mountain which in turn give the avg joe more tags to apply for.
Exactly, we can't control what WA does with the money, but suggesting the tag sells don't generate more opportunity for conservation is crazy. Arizona, Utah and other states have put more sheep on the mountain through auction tags. You need the right people in control of the purse strings.
One thing Utah does right is giving the the tags to conservation organizations to auction, that way they control the proceeds and how they are spent.
Utah is the (Crown) jewel of the conservation fears. It's managed for the sale of wildlife. What do you define as conservation? More opportunity? Or more inches and less opportunity like Utah? If we are talking about damage to rank and file, Utah is a prime example of a switch to a hybrid kings model. If we want opportunity and to stick to the principle of democratic rule we quickly switch from broad support within the non hunting public to almost complete damnation. Society rejection of strict trophy hunting is very clear. While support for general hunting is at least in the ~70% range.
I couldn't disagree more. The damage to rank and file hunter is the greed of having to have a tag every year, we don't have the resources to support the demand. All tags in this state should be on a draw system. We have way more hunters than resources available, so public land hunting has mostly become a joke.
It could easily be argued that WA is the worst model of hunting in the country. Our management of OTC tags and our draw system is atrocious.
This is democracy though, so you have your opinion and I have mine, we will never agree, and that is ok.
Post by: Tbar on April 10, 2024, 09:14:02 AM
what these auction tags in AZ did was a lot! and AZ was the most transparent western state when it came to these tags and how money was spent. These auction tags for sheep have helped put alot more sheep on the mountain which in turn give the avg joe more tags to apply for.
Exactly, we can't control what WA does with the money, but suggesting the tag sells don't generate more opportunity for conservation is crazy. Arizona, Utah and other states have put more sheep on the mountain through auction tags. You need the right people in control of the purse strings.
One thing Utah does right is giving the the tags to conservation organizations to auction, that way they control the proceeds and how they are spent.
Utah is the (Crown) jewel of the conservation fears. It's managed for the sale of wildlife. What do you define as conservation? More opportunity? Or more inches and less opportunity like Utah? If we are talking about damage to rank and file, Utah is a prime example of a switch to a hybrid kings model. If we want opportunity and to stick to the principle of democratic rule we quickly switch from broad support within the non hunting public to almost complete damnation. Society rejection of strict trophy hunting is very clear. While support for general hunting is at least in the ~70% range.
I couldn't disagree more. The damage to rank and file hunter is the greed of having to have a tag every year, we don't have the resources to support the demand. All tags in this state should be on a draw system. We have way more hunters than resources available, so public land hunting has mostly become a joke.
It could easily be argued that WA is the worst model of hunting in the country. Our management of OTC tags and our draw system is atrocious.
This is democracy though, so you have your opinion and I have mine, we will never agree, and that is ok.
We are not in the majority on either side so our opinions are mostly irrelevant. The optics of places like Utah will be very detrimental to our hunting future. Meanwhile hunting like the member @buglebuster does with his family annually may save our collective interests.
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on April 10, 2024, 09:19:58 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 10, 2024, 09:42:50 AM
Well said.what these auction tags in AZ did was a lot! and AZ was the most transparent western state when it came to these tags and how money was spent. These auction tags for sheep have helped put alot more sheep on the mountain which in turn give the avg joe more tags to apply for.
Exactly, we can't control what WA does with the money, but suggesting the tag sells don't generate more opportunity for conservation is crazy. Arizona, Utah and other states have put more sheep on the mountain through auction tags. You need the right people in control of the purse strings.
One thing Utah does right is giving the the tags to conservation organizations to auction, that way they control the proceeds and how they are spent.
Utah is the (Crown) jewel of the conservation fears. It's managed for the sale of wildlife. What do you define as conservation? More opportunity? Or more inches and less opportunity like Utah? If we are talking about damage to rank and file, Utah is a prime example of a switch to a hybrid kings model. If we want opportunity and to stick to the principle of democratic rule we quickly switch from broad support within the non hunting public to almost complete damnation. Society rejection of strict trophy hunting is very clear. While support for general hunting is at least in the ~70% range.
And Utah politicians should be in jail for how they've managed the public trust resource...but thats a whole different thread.
Post by: kentrek on April 10, 2024, 10:03:35 AM
. Society rejection of strict trophy hunting is very clear. While support for general hunting is at least in the ~70% range.
This is simply because of a lack of education and understanding.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 10, 2024, 05:39:23 PM
Why wouldn't a state utilize a renewable resource to raise money? It's a handful of tags that raises an incredible amount of money for wildlife.
Is it a commodity or a public trust resource?
pigtailing on this one......
OP, of course they will use everything they can to grab your money........just wait.....pretty soon they will be controlling food costs more than they do already. It's a commodity....might as well make a buck or thousands.
Also, seen this statement multiple times on this thread, "Auction permit monies support wildlife.
Those who have used this statement, do you support the introduction of griz, lack of pred management, wolves, cats, etc........REMEMBER, these are "WILDLIFE" too.
Post by: NWWA Hunter on June 01, 2024, 09:42:41 AM
Only $92k? Pocket change to these bidders :chuckle: :chuckle:Here is where the real money is
In my opinion it is pretty crazy how expensive the tags in Nebraska have gotten. It is a 370-400 hunt on almost all private lands. Pennsylvania is definitely way more fun.