Post by: Todd_ID on January 17, 2010, 06:52:10 PM
Post by: SilkWWU on January 17, 2010, 07:07:51 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on January 17, 2010, 07:12:32 PM
Do you know if there's a similar program for Rifles?There's got to be something out there like that. Post a question about it in the guns and ammo section. Someone on here will know.
Post by: TheKid#10 on January 17, 2010, 07:23:20 PM
what can you tell me about my setup? best spine, yardage drops, best weight broadhead. ect.
2009 Bear Truth II 29" draw 50#-70# range set at 64/65# gold tip arrows 30 1/2" cut 3 blazer vanes 125 gr broadheads 3 blade Montecs standard nock w d loop over and under the nock
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on January 17, 2010, 07:44:39 PM
2010 Mathews Z7, 25 inch draw, set to 60#, Easton Axis ST 400's (9.8 grains per inch) cut to 26 inches with HIT inserts, 3 blazers, 100 grain 3 blade Hellrazor broadhead, standard nock, with a d loop.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 17, 2010, 09:02:21 PM
Cool Todd!
what can you tell me about my setup? best spine, yardage drops, best weight broadhead. ect.
2009 Bear Truth II 29" draw 50#-70# range set at 64/65# gold tip arrows 30 1/2" cut 3 blazer vanes 125 gr broadheads 3 blade Montecs standard nock w d loop over and under the nock
Ok, with your setup I came up with:
Your recommended spine is .329, so for 125 grain heads in a Gold Tip it's the XTHunter series in 7595 (.340).
That will fly at 271 fps with 14.03% FOC and 71.37 ft-lbs KE with arrow weight of 415 grains (all very good)
Go to 100 grain heads and you get 276, 11.82, 69.8, 390
Drop from 20-50 yds, KE at 50 yds
125 gr: 30.95", 59.17
100 gr: 29.61", 57.7
I'd stick with the 125 grain and 7595 arrows if you like them. If you have the 5575 arrows, then I'd guess they aren't flying too well because they are way under-spined (.400) at that length.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 17, 2010, 09:18:24 PM
I'd like to know what I can expect from my new set up in terms of velocity and kinetic energy:
2010 Mathews Z7, 25 inch draw, set to 60#, Easton Axis ST 400's (9.8 grains per inch) cut to 26 inches with HIT inserts, 3 blazers, 100 grain 3 blade Hellrazor broadhead, standard nock, with a d loop.
For you I see:
Recommended spine is .453, so the .400 is stiff with the 100 grain heads but will probably fly fine with 12.5% FOC, 54.15 ft-lb KE, at 248 FPS with arrow weight of 396 gr.
Switch to 125 grain broadheads and you'll be at .434 recommended spine. It'd be 14.7%, 55.22 ft-lbs, 243 FPS, 421 gr.
Drop from 20-50, KE at 50
125 gr: 41.2", 47.4
100 gr: 39.2", 46.5
My recommendation for you is longer arms :chuckle: Sorry, couldn't resist.
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on January 17, 2010, 09:23:59 PM
Post by: lokidog on January 17, 2010, 10:18:16 PM
Post by: Shootmoore on January 18, 2010, 12:01:21 AM
Unkown year, Howatt, The Stick, 60#@28, Easton, feathers, 3, 125gr, 3 blaid, not.
Prefer Alum over Carbon, while Im not a total Trad shooter I prefer metal over wood or carbon.
Thanks
Shootmoore
Post by: jackelope on January 18, 2010, 07:20:50 AM
2009 hoyt alphamax 32, 30" cams, 70#.
I am currently shooting 31.5" Easton Camo ST Axis 340's, 4 blazer vanes and 4 blade 100 grain slick tricks, 3" wraps, HIT inserts and standard old nocks.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 09:48:34 AM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on January 18, 2010, 09:55:10 AM
No expert here but I am pulling 60+ with my 29 1/2" DL on my voodoo stick and 2016's shoot real well. I thought at first they might be a little light but I am shooting regular inserts (20 GR?) with 5" feathers and 125 gr tips. I am experimenting with heavier arrows for hunting, Grizzly STik Alaskans with 70 gr inserts, and 125 gr Tips or 125 Gr Snuffer heads. They are much heavier than the Easton 2016's. I have also tried the CE Heritage 250's with the same setup as the Eastons, they fly well.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 10:31:08 AM
OK....I wanna make sure I'm shooting the right arrows.For your setup it says the recommended spine is .293, so the 340's are quite a bit underspined. Even turning down the bow to 60# it wanted a .323 spine, so it'd still be a little weak but would work with the Slick Tricks. You, however, being a large, strong man (I've shot with him) didn't have any trouble with 70#, so my recommendation is to go with a 300 spine arrow. I don't mind the under 10% FOC in your case, because you said you are shooting Slick Trick's, and I know that they are very well known for flying well at lower FOC's. If you had said Magnus Stinger or Muzzy, then I would have said go up to 125 grains to get more FOC. Maybe keep the 340's for 3D shoots this spring and put a 65 grain field point on it...or sell them to me....then get some 300's for elk hunting.
2009 hoyt alphamax 32, 30" cams, 70#.
I am currently shooting 31.5" Easton Camo ST Axis 340's, 4 blazer vanes and 4 blade 100 grain slick tricks, 3" wraps, HIT inserts and standard old nocks.
Here are the numbers for your setup now: 292 FPS, 9.66% FOC, 89.5 ft-lbs KE, 473 grain arrow.
Here is what a 300 spine would do: Hit like a freight train and fly predictably...oh, you probably want numbers: 284 FPS, 9.0%, 91.58 ft-lbs, 511 gr
Arrow Drop 20-50 yds, KE at 50 yds
300 spine: 29.4", 75.2
340 spine: 27.3", 73.7
Post by: jackelope on January 18, 2010, 10:58:04 AM
i did chrono the arrows i'm shooting now at 282fps so the program is reasonably accurate i guess.
here's another one for you...
2009 diamond iceman, 66# draw weight, 27.5" draw length shooting 340 st axis arrows, 3 blazers and 100 grain muzzy 3 blades, hit inserts and no wraps.
what say ye all knowing pooter??
Post by: mossback91 on January 18, 2010, 11:05:34 AM
2006 Hoyt Trykon XL 30" inch draw 70#
currently shooting 29" goldtip 5575 with 100 grain slick trick and fobs with 7 inch wraps
Im curious cause ive shot both 7595 and 5575 and the 7595 dont seem to fly right.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 12:06:11 PM
Post by: bonkellekter on January 18, 2010, 12:23:03 PM
2007 Browning Illusion 64/65# Gold Tip 7595 (8.9 grains/in.), 28.5" draw length, 28.5" arrow cut length, muzzy 100gr 3-blade, 4" straight fletch, standard gold tip inserts & nocks
Post by: Emptyhanded on January 18, 2010, 12:24:28 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 12:29:23 PM
Cool offer toddHere's what I found:
2006 Hoyt Trykon XL 30" inch draw 70#
currently shooting 29" goldtip 5575 with 100 grain slick trick and fobs with 7 inch wraps
Im curious cause ive shot both 7595 and 5575 and the 7595 dont seem to fly right.
Your setup is between the spines of the 5575 (.400) and 7595 (.340) since the program is saying it should shoot a .364-.370 spine. The 5575 work, stick with them, I say. The numbers for your setup with the 5575 are: 297 FPS, 10.96% FOC, 76.8 ft-lbs KE, 391 gr arrow. With 7595 it's: 290, 8.8%, 79.5, and 423 gr. Seeing that, it's possible that the under-9% FOC could have been the problem. Get too far under 10% FOC with a fixed blade head and you'll need perfect form to control them. The solution, if you're looking for weight gains in the arrow would be to go to 125 grain broadheads and the 7595 shafts. That would be: 285, 11.1, 81.25, and 448. That's a killing machine, but I probably wouldn't advise the switch unless you've got plenty of extra money to spend.
Arrow drop differences for the 3 at 20-50, KE at 50yds:
5575 and 100 gr: 25", 71.4
7595 and 100 gr: 25.9", 72.8
7595 and 125 gr: 27", 74.4
Post by: TheKid#10 on January 18, 2010, 12:30:29 PM
Cool Todd!
what can you tell me about my setup? best spine, yardage drops, best weight broadhead. ect.
2009 Bear Truth II 29" draw 50#-70# range set at 64/65# gold tip arrows 30 1/2" cut 3 blazer vanes 125 gr broadheads 3 blade Montecs standard nock w d loop over and under the nock
Ok, with your setup I came up with:
Your recommended spine is .329, so for 125 grain heads in a Gold Tip it's the XTHunter series in 7595 (.340).
That will fly at 271 fps with 14.03% FOC and 71.37 ft-lbs KE with arrow weight of 415 grains (all very good)
Go to 100 grain heads and you get 276, 11.82, 69.8, 390
Drop from 20-50 yds, KE at 50 yds
125 gr: 30.95", 59.17
100 gr: 29.61", 57.7
I'd stick with the 125 grain and 7595 arrows if you like them. If you have the 5575 arrows, then I'd guess they aren't flying too well because they are way under-spined (.400) at that length.
Awesome, thanks so much Todd. That's exactly what I'm shooting. 125 gr Montecs with Gold Tip XT Hunters in 7595. Funny you should talk about the 5575's. The guy that sold me my bow said what you'll want to shoot are the 5575's and sold me a dozen. I shot them and every shot stuck into the target at a different side to side angle. (Weak Spine) So I took them back and told him what was going on and he breaks out a Gold Tip pamphlet and says whoops I sold you the wrong arrows. He took them back and gave me the 7595's and all was good. Thanks again and it sounds like from you my setup is pretty good so I'll leave it alone. Shoot straight Bud and I owe you a beverage of you choice should we ever meet. KID
Post by: jackelope on January 18, 2010, 12:31:32 PM
What arrow length on the IceMan's arrows?apparently we don't know exactly. lets say 29" for *censored*s and grins.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 12:51:46 PM
I appreciate the offer - How much and where did you get the software?http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ and $27.95. The free trial version doesn't have many selections but does have all the functions active, then you download the upgrade once you buy it.
2007 Browning Illusion 64/65# Gold Tip 7595 (8.9 grains/in.), 28.5" draw length, 28.5" arrow cut length, muzzy 100gr 3-blade, 4" straight fletch, standard gold tip inserts & nocks
Here's what I found for you:
The recommended spine with your setup is .401, which is exactly the spine of the 5575's. Maybe stepping up to 125 grains is feasible? Your setup shows: 275 fps, 9.76% FOC, 69.8 ft-lbs KE and 415 grain arrow. Go to 7595's with 125 grains is: 270 fps, 12.7%, 71.3 ft-lbs, and 440 gr. Probably fly better and hit harder, but if the way you have it now works, then stick with it, for sure. 5577 and 100 gr is: 276 fps, 8.5%, 69.3 ft-lbs, 407 gr (not enough FOC for Muzzy, in my opinion). Go with 5575 and 125 gr, then: 271fps, 10.9%, 70.9 ft-lbs, 432 gr. The last is the best choice if you didn't already own the stuff, but if you're having tuning/grouping problems, then the spine and FOC issues are possibly why.
Arrow drop 20-50, KE @ 50 yds
7595 and 100 gr: 32.2" 55.2
7595 and 125 gr: 33.6", 56.3
5575 and 100 gr: 31.7", 54.9
5575 and 125 gr: 33.1", 56.1
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 01:00:23 PM
I'll take the grins by themselves, thank you very much! :chuckle:What arrow length on the IceMan's arrows?apparently we don't know exactly. lets say 29" for *censored*s and grins.
It says: recommended spine is .400, so the 340's are a bit stiff. The numbers: 258 fps, 11.4% FOC, 65 ft-lbs KE, 438 gr.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
35.8" and 55.4 ft-lbs
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 18, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
Post by: bonkellekter on January 18, 2010, 01:11:19 PM
Thanks again
Ryan
Post by: mossback91 on January 18, 2010, 01:19:27 PM
Cool offer toddHere's what I found:
2006 Hoyt Trykon XL 30" inch draw 70#
currently shooting 29" goldtip 5575 with 100 grain slick trick and fobs with 7 inch wraps
Im curious cause ive shot both 7595 and 5575 and the 7595 dont seem to fly right.
Your setup is between the spines of the 5575 (.400) and 7595 (.340) since the program is saying it should shoot a .364-.370 spine. The 5575 work, stick with them, I say. The numbers for your setup with the 5575 are: 297 FPS, 10.96% FOC, 76.8 ft-lbs KE, 391 gr arrow. With 7595 it's: 290, 8.8%, 79.5, and 423 gr. Seeing that, it's possible that the under-9% FOC could have been the problem. Get too far under 10% FOC with a fixed blade head and you'll need perfect form to control them. The solution, if you're looking for weight gains in the arrow would be to go to 125 grain broadheads and the 7595 shafts. That would be: 285, 11.1, 81.25, and 448. That's a killing machine, but I probably wouldn't advise the switch unless you've got plenty of extra money to spend.
Arrow drop differences for the 3 at 20-50, KE at 50yds:
5575 and 100 gr: 25", 71.4
7595 and 100 gr: 25.9", 72.8
7595 and 125 gr: 27", 74.4
Thanks Todd!
I'll prolly switch to the heavy side in the spring.....I dont really like flinging illegal arrow weight :chuckle: But Id rather be illegal with great arrow flight than legal with horrible flight.........Plus heavier is always better!
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 01:21:29 PM
Could you tell me the spine for a 2006 Martin Jaguar 29" draw 60# draw. I hope that's enough info. Thanks Todd!
Some assumptions I made are:
125 grain heads
29" Easton ST Axis arrows
3 Blazer fletched
The 340 ST Axis would be right on the money for spine for these assumptions. It would be: 259 fps, 12.9% FOC, 69.6 ft-lbs KE, and 467 grain arrow. That looks like a damn good hunting rig! It said it needed a .352 spine for 125 grain heads and .364 for 100 grain heads. For 100 grain heads it is: 264, 10.85, 68.5, and 442 gr. Nothing wrong there, either, but the 125 grain heads get you closer to matching the spine of the needs of the bow with each weight head.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
100 gr: 34", 58.4
125 gr: 35.6", 59.3
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 01:25:56 PM
If you happen to know the arrow speed and/or arrow weight you have now, then let me know, and I can tweak the program to be almost perfect.
Also, the 20-50 yard drops that I am giving mean that if you shot at a 50 yard target with your 20 yard pin, then that's how much drop you would see.
Post by: Emptyhanded on January 18, 2010, 01:29:04 PM
Post by: Hillbilly270 on January 18, 2010, 01:35:55 PM
I have a 07 Ross Cardiac and i believe its 33" cam to cam
29" DL @ 70#
340 Easton ST Axis @ 29" long with three blazer vanes
3 blade 100gr broadhead
thanks again.
Post by: bonkellekter on January 18, 2010, 01:48:58 PM
thanks for the help todd. I am new to bowhunting so what is FOC?
Percent Front Of Center represents the percentage of forward weight on your arrow. For indoor match shooting, the ideal %FOC is between 7% and 9%. For hunting situations using broadheads, the ideal %FOC is between 9% and 15%.
Post by: Galpster on January 18, 2010, 01:49:44 PM
I started one in the guns section. I hope someone is as nice as you are. Great job sir. Very cool!!
Post by: bonkellekter on January 18, 2010, 02:00:49 PM
I appreciate the offer - How much and where did you get the software?http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ and $27.95. The free trial version doesn't have many selections but does have all the functions active, then you download the upgrade once you buy it.
2007 Browning Illusion 64/65# Gold Tip 7595 (8.9 grains/in.), 28.5" draw length, 28.5" arrow cut length, muzzy 100gr 3-blade, 4" straight fletch, standard gold tip inserts & nocks
Here's what I found for you:
The recommended spine with your setup is .401, which is exactly the spine of the 5575's. Maybe stepping up to 125 grains is feasible? Your setup shows: 275 fps, 9.76% FOC, 69.8 ft-lbs KE and 415 grain arrow. Go to 7595's with 125 grains is: 270 fps, 12.7%, 71.3 ft-lbs, and 440 gr. Probably fly better and hit harder, but if the way you have it now works, then stick with it, for sure. 5577 and 100 gr is: 276 fps, 8.5%, 69.3 ft-lbs, 407 gr (not enough FOC for Muzzy, in my opinion). Go with 5575 and 125 gr, then: 271fps, 10.9%, 70.9 ft-lbs, 432 gr. The last is the best choice if you didn't already own the stuff, but if you're having tuning/grouping problems, then the spine and FOC issues are possibly why.
Arrow drop 20-50, KE @ 50 yds
7595 and 100 gr: 32.2" 55.2
7595 and 125 gr: 33.6", 56.3
5575 and 100 gr: 31.7", 54.9
5575 and 125 gr: 33.1", 56.1
Todd - I have also been wanting to turn my bow back up to 70#, what would the numbers look like using 7595 & 125's @ 70#
Thanks
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 02:21:30 PM
7585 with 125 grains and 70# draw weight want .373 spine, so it looks fine with the 7595's having a .340 spine. The numbers: 276 fps, 10.47% FOC, 76.8 KE, 452 grains.I appreciate the offer - How much and where did you get the software?http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ and $27.95. The free trial version doesn't have many selections but does have all the functions active, then you download the upgrade once you buy it.
2007 Browning Illusion 64/65# Gold Tip 7595 (8.9 grains/in.), 28.5" draw length, 28.5" arrow cut length, muzzy 100gr 3-blade, 4" straight fletch, standard gold tip inserts & nocks
Here's what I found for you:
The recommended spine with your setup is .401, which is exactly the spine of the 5575's. Maybe stepping up to 125 grains is feasible? Your setup shows: 275 fps, 9.76% FOC, 69.8 ft-lbs KE and 415 grain arrow. Go to 7595's with 125 grains is: 270 fps, 12.7%, 71.3 ft-lbs, and 440 gr. Probably fly better and hit harder, but if the way you have it now works, then stick with it, for sure. 5577 and 100 gr is: 276 fps, 8.5%, 69.3 ft-lbs, 407 gr (not enough FOC for Muzzy, in my opinion). Go with 5575 and 125 gr, then: 271fps, 10.9%, 70.9 ft-lbs, 432 gr. The last is the best choice if you didn't already own the stuff, but if you're having tuning/grouping problems, then the spine and FOC issues are possibly why.
Arrow drop 20-50, KE @ 50 yds
7595 and 100 gr: 32.2" 55.2
7595 and 125 gr: 33.6", 56.3
5575 and 100 gr: 31.7", 54.9
5575 and 125 gr: 33.1", 56.1
Todd - I have also been wanting to turn my bow back up to 70#, what would the numbers look like using 7595 & 125's @ 70#
Thanks
All that looks good!
Arrow drop 20-50, KE at 50
31.8", 60.7 ft-lbs
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 02:34:41 PM
thanks for the help todd. I am new to bowhunting so what is FOC?Bone had FOC correct: it's the percentage forward of the measured center of the arrow to where it balances versus its overall length.
I have a 07 Ross Cardiac and i believe its 33" cam to cam
29" DL @ 70#
340 Easton ST Axis @ 29" long with three blazer vanes
3 blade 100gr broadhead
thanks again.
You setup numbers:
The software says you need a .333 spine, so the .340 spine is perfect. The spine is nothing more than a measurement in inches: suspend the arrow at 28" centers and put a 2# weight in the middle: yours would bend .340", hence the 340 designation. It shows 285 fps, 11.46% FOC, 79.4 ft-lbs KE, and 438 gr arrow weight. Nothing wrong with that, especially for anything on this continent.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
28.25", 67.7 ft-lbs
Post by: bonkellekter on January 18, 2010, 02:35:56 PM
(PS) - my bow shot the chrono @ 276 fps w/ my current setup. So the program is right on.
Post by: LittleJohn on January 18, 2010, 05:18:33 PM
I want them set at 67 lbs 29.5" draw, and shoot a GT 7595 arrow cut at 28.5" with a 120 gr tip.
do u need more info???
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 06:32:41 PM
I want to compare the Z7 to the DestroyerGot the PM on the clarifications.
I want them set at 67 lbs 29.5" draw, and shoot a GT 7595 arrow cut at 28.5" with a 120 gr tip.
do u need more info???
What I found:
Z7: 302 fps, 13.6% FOC, 84.4 ft-lbs KE, 417 gr arrow (didn't even have to adjust to meet your PM weight). It shows the spine should be .323, so the .340 would be fine with good form on each shot.
Deystroyer 350: 312 fos, 13.6%, 90.1 ft-lbs, 417 gr. The spine should be .295, so you need to go to a .300 spine arrow to get decent flight. I put in a ST Axis 300 to see how it would change: 296 fps, 12.34%, 96.4 ft-lbs, 495 grains using a 125 gr head w/o your weighted inserts. This arrow was perfect spine for your setup.
Arrow Drops 20-50, KE at 50
Destroyer, Axis, 125 gr: 25.9", 82 ft-lbs
Z7, your arrow and head: 24.7", 71.4 ft-lbs.
Hope this helps in the decision. Just remember to shoot them both. A fast miss is still a miss if you don't like either one.
Post by: LittleJohn on January 18, 2010, 06:41:06 PM
Post by: lokidog on January 18, 2010, 07:13:44 PM
31" Cabelas carbon hunter 65/80, 4" vanes. Muzzy MX3, 100gr
Try with the bow at 60 and 70# please. I don't know the current draw weight but want to get back to 70. Thanks.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 18, 2010, 08:11:45 PM
Golden Eagle Splitfire I early 90's? can't remember when I got it, bow is set at 29" draw 75% let off.I guess the program doesn't have anything before 2002 for some reason.....didn't notice that before. Sorry! Also, 90's was pretty much pre-internet information storage by-and-large, so I dind't find any information on it from back then either. Did find that Golden Eagle was bought out by Bear Archery in the early 2000's.
31" Cabelas carbon hunter 65/80, 4" vanes. Muzzy MX3, 100gr
Try with the bow at 60 and 70# please. I don't know the current draw weight but want to get back to 70. Thanks.
Post by: lokidog on January 18, 2010, 08:20:49 PM
You could try my wife's for me.
Martin Cheetah 55-70, 2009, 25" draw length set at 45lbs shooting 100gr Muzzy MX3 and 25" Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/70 with blazer fletches.
Thanks again.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 19, 2010, 05:30:53 PM
Figures.....Ok, that one I can do. Been a busy day at work, so it took me a while. It says she needs a .728 spine and the ones she has are .390, so it's way too stiff... If it's flying well enough, then leave it alone, but if you've got problems with flight, then it's probably the stiff spine. The numbers: 214 fps, 14.5% FOC, 35.3 ft-lbs, 346 gr arrow weight. If you decide to by new arrows for her sometime in the future, then PM me, and I can run the numbers again and the software has a bunch of recommended arrows in the correct spine range that I can give you to research.
You could try my wife's for me.
Martin Cheetah 55-70, 2009, 25" draw length set at 45lbs shooting 100gr Muzzy MX3 and 25" Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/70 with blazer fletches.
Thanks again.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE @ 50
54.8", 30.2 ft-lbs
Post by: lokidog on January 19, 2010, 06:01:45 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on January 19, 2010, 06:13:37 PM
Todd, thanks. Could you run this with her bow at 55 pounds? We figured they might be a bit stiff at 45 pounds. She is working on increasing it as she can.At 55 lbs, it looks like it needs a .604 spine, so it's still too stiff, but getting better. The numbers at 55# are: 232fps, 14.59% FOC, 41.5 ft-lbs KE, 346 grain arrow. Again, if you have problems getting it to shoot well, then arrow spine is most likely the place to start.
Arrow drop 20-50, KE @ 50
45.7", 35.6 ft-lbs
Post by: nitro on January 19, 2010, 08:34:42 PM
Post by: GoldTip on January 19, 2010, 08:59:59 PM
2008 Bowtech Guardian at 29.5 draw length, set at 72lbs
Goldtip 7595's cut at 29.5", 3 blazer vanes
Sonic 125gr coc broadheads.
Trophy Taker drop away.
Thanks in advance for the info, cool program you have.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 20, 2010, 07:47:58 AM
Todd, thanks for doing this for everyone, would appreciate what you can tell me for info. Have not chrono'd my bow but it shoots well.It's been fun seeing the different setups and how they perform. What I found for you: Recommended Spine .312 (yours are .340), they're a little weak, but not terrible. 293 fps, 14.1% FOC, 82 ft-lbs KE, 428 gr arrow weight. Seeing the high FOC, I'm not surprised to hear that you're able to shoot the marginally weak spine with good results. Switch broadheads to one with less desirable flight characteristics, and you'd probably need to drop to 100 grain heads to get it to fly well. The numbers for 100 grain heads: recommended spine .322, 299 fps, 11.9%, 80 ft-lbs, 403 grains.
2008 Bowtech Guardian at 29.5 draw length, set at 72lbs
Goldtip 7595's cut at 29.5", 3 blazer vanes
Sonic 125gr coc broadheads.
Trophy Taker drop away.
Thanks in advance for the info, cool program you have.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
125 gr: 26.5", 69.2 ft-lbs
100 gr: 25.3", 67.4 ft-lbs
I say stick with what you've got unless you just can't quit buying equipment (like me). :chuckle:
Post by: Todd_ID on January 20, 2010, 07:59:56 AM
Todd like to see some numbers for my new bow. hoyt maxxis 31 70lbs 27 inch draw easton 340 axis, muzzy 3 blade oh ya 4 blazer vanes.I had to make an assumption of 27" arrows and head weight, so I'll show it with both 100 and 125 grain heads on 27" arrows.
100 grain: Recommended spine is .367, so that's fine at your .340. 278 fps, 12.46% FOC, 68 ft-lbs KE, 396.5 gr arrow weight.
125 grain: recommended spine is .355, so that's better using the slightly stiffer .340's. 273 fps, 14.67%, 69.7 ft-lbs, 421.5 gr.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
100 gr: 30", 58.4 ft-lbs
125 gr: 31.4", 59.8
Post by: luvtohnt on January 20, 2010, 08:01:20 AM
2006 Martin Tracer-71#, 28" draw
Easton ST epic 340 cut to 29" with 4" vanes
125 gr. Montec G5 broadheads.
Whisker Bisquit rest
Thanks for running the numbers for me.
Brandon
Post by: GoldTip on January 20, 2010, 08:26:00 AM
Todd, thanks for doing this for everyone, would appreciate what you can tell me for info. Have not chrono'd my bow but it shoots well.It's been fun seeing the different setups and how they perform. What I found for you: Recommended Spine .312 (yours are .340), they're a little weak, but not terrible. 293 fps, 14.1% FOC, 82 ft-lbs KE, 428 gr arrow weight. Seeing the high FOC, I'm not surprised to hear that you're able to shoot the marginally weak spine with good results. Switch broadheads to one with less desirable flight characteristics, and you'd probably need to drop to 100 grain heads to get it to fly well. The numbers for 100 grain heads: recommended spine .322, 299 fps, 11.9%, 80 ft-lbs, 403 grains.
2008 Bowtech Guardian at 29.5 draw length, set at 72lbs
Goldtip 7595's cut at 29.5", 3 blazer vanes
Sonic 125gr coc broadheads.
Trophy Taker drop away.
Thanks in advance for the info, cool program you have.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
125 gr: 26.5", 69.2 ft-lbs
100 gr: 25.3", 67.4 ft-lbs
I say stick with what you've got unless you just can't quit buying equipment (like me). :chuckle:
Todd, thanks a lot for the info. To be honest have been pretty darned happy with the setup thus far. Had contemplated changing to Shuttle T broadheads, but to be honest after seeing the poor results on animals with good hits that my cousin got this year, I'll be sticking with my Sonics.
Post by: bonkellekter on January 20, 2010, 12:53:39 PM
thanks
Post by: Todd_ID on January 20, 2010, 01:19:17 PM
Quick question: I downloaded the trial version of this program and I have to enter alot of the equipment (mainly bows) manually. There is only like 10-12 options in the trial version. Do you get a better selection once purchased.Yeah, the trial version only has a few selections, but the rest come when you buy it and do the database update.
thanks
Post by: GoldTip on January 20, 2010, 01:40:17 PM
Diamond Marquis, 29" draw set at 64lbs, 80% letoff
5575 Goldtip XT Hunters at 29.5"
3 blazer vanes
125gr Sonics.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 20, 2010, 01:48:07 PM
It sounds like you have a way cool programCouldn't find a Tracer in the lists until 2004. IBO speed was listed as 305, so it probably didn't change much if it is a 2006 model. Says it needs a .371 spine, so you're good with the .340, just a little stiff. The numbers for your setup: 258 fps, 11.75% FOC, 68.57 ft-lbs, 463.8 grain arrow weight
2006 Martin Tracer-71#, 28" draw
Easton ST epic 340 cut to 29" with 4" vanes
125 gr. Montec G5 broadheads.
Whisker Bisquit rest
Thanks for running the numbers for me.
Brandon
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
37.5" 54.2 ft-lbs
Don't see anything wrong in any of that!
Post by: Todd_ID on January 20, 2010, 02:02:39 PM
OK one more if you don't mind for my buddies bow.
Diamond Marquis, 29" draw set at 64lbs, 80% letoff
5575 Goldtip XT Hunters at 29.5"
3 blazer vanes
125gr Sonics.
Didn't see a year on there, but they only made it in 08 and 09. Neither year had an 80% let-off, so I used their max of 75. If it is 80, then it only makes a 1-4 fps difference. The 5575 (at .400 spine) are a bit too weak since it calls for a .356 spine arrow. A 100 grain broadhead helped, but not enough to warrant a change. However, the 7595's at .340 might solve any problems you guys find. I'll show the numbers for both: 5575 and 125 grains: 278 fps, 14.8% FOC, 70 ft-lbs KE, 407.3 grain arrows. 7595 and 125 grains: 271 fps, 12.42%, 72 ft-bls, 440 gr.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
5575: 30.2", 59.2 ft-lbs
7595: 32.0", 61 ft-lbs
Post by: uplandhunter870 on January 20, 2010, 03:20:29 PM
2008 reflex bighorn, 27" draw, 70#, beman ics hunters 340s @9.3gpi 28.5" long, 100gr. field points, 100gr. 3 blade wasp boss bullets. 3 quick spin ST speed hunter 2in w/ bohning wraps, shooting out of a D-loop and a drow away.
thanks Steve
Post by: Todd_ID on January 20, 2010, 04:39:52 PM
would you mind running some numbers for me please? mainly interested in best spine, need to buy arrows but im thinking im a tad underspinedNo problem....With your setup it shows the recommended spine to be .407, so the 340's are off the charts stiff, even with 125 grain heads. Stick with what you've got unless you want to change something, and then maybe think about the .400 spine arrows. The numbers now: 254 fps, 10.46% FOC, 61 ft-lbs KE, 426 grain arrow weight. Go to 400's and 100 grain heads and it becomes: 259 fps, 11.1%, 59.7 ft-lbs, 400.4 grains. Again, stick with what you've got unless you're having flight problems during/after tuning.
2008 reflex bighorn, 27" draw, 70#, beman ics hunters 340s @9.3gpi 28.5" long, 100gr. field points, 100gr. 3 blade wasp boss bullets. 3 quick spin ST speed hunter 2in w/ bohning wraps, shooting out of a D-loop and a drow away.
thanks Steve
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
340's and 100 gr: 37.6", 51.6 ft-lbs
400's and 100 gr: 35.7", 50.6
Post by: uplandhunter870 on January 20, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
Post by: GoldTip on January 20, 2010, 05:47:37 PM
Post by: low97ram on January 20, 2010, 08:52:05 PM
09 bowtech carnivore
65lb 28" draw 65% letoff
100 grain broadheads (slick trick mag)
3" vanes beeman ics hunters 400 (cut 26 5/8 w/o noc, 27 3/8 with)
hostage rest
if you need anything else let me know
thanks
pete
Post by: Todd_ID on January 21, 2010, 06:13:19 AM
hey todd..if you got time could you run this:You didn't mention which one it was 31, 34, or 37, so I ran the numbers on the 31 and the 34, since the 37 was intended to be a target and/or finger shooter's model. The numbers for the Carnivore 31 and 34 with your specs: recommended spine is .429, so the 400's are good. 271 fps, 11.2% FOC, 63.4 ft-lbs, 389 grain arrow. I think the database must have used Ross' range of IBO speeds as a starting point for speeds and performance with both bows because both showed the same performance. Meaning that Ross lists the IBO speed of both bows as a range of 312-320. The 31 should be a bit faster than the 34, maybe like 3-5 fps. My input is that your arrow is pretty darn light and 125 grain heads should help penetration with less than desirable shots. The numbers with 125 grain heads: recommended spine .413, so the 400's are still good, 265 fps, 13.53% FOC, 65 ft-lbs, 414 grain arrow.
09 bowtech carnivore
65lb 28" draw 65% letoff
100 grain broadheads (slick trick mag)
3" vanes beeman ics hunters 400 (cut 26 5/8 w/o noc, 27 3/8 with)
hostage rest
if you need anything else let me know
thanks
pete
Penetration ability is best measured in momentum at the target. The momentum for the 125 grain heads is .4466, and the momentum for the 100 grain heads is .4277, both at 50 yards. That's a 5% gain in energy delivered to the shoulder blade you are trying to break through, and, in my mind, is probably worth considering when you need to buy new broadheads. Stick with what you know and shoot well, but if you are thinking about changing or are out of broadheads, then these are the numbers to inform the decision.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
100 gr: 40", 53 ft-lbs
125 gr: 41.7", 54.5 ft-lbs
Post by: low97ram on January 21, 2010, 06:18:41 AM
pete
Post by: konrad on January 21, 2010, 04:49:41 PM
07 Bear Truth (hard cam)
60 pound draw
29 inch shaft
27 inch draw length
2 inch Blazers
The question is: What spine arrow and weight broadhead will give me a 19% FOC balance point?
I currently use a 2413 with 100 grain points, Bohnig signature nocks and 2 inch blazers.
My FOC is almost 11%.
Thanks for the help,
Konrad
Post by: Todd_ID on January 21, 2010, 06:15:31 PM
Sounds interesting!
07 Bear Truth (hard cam)
60 pound draw
29 inch shaft
27 inch draw length
2 inch Blazers
The question is: What spine arrow and weight broadhead will give me a 19% FOC balance point?
I currently use a 2413 with 100 grain points, Bohnig signature nocks and 2 inch blazers.
My FOC is almost 11%.
Thanks for the help,
Konrad
Your current setup: Recommended spine: .434, your spine: .365, so it's off the charts stiff. The numbers: 231 fps, 10.68% FOC, 58.1 ft-lbs KE, 489.5 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50: 58", KE at 50: 47.1 ft-lbs
To get above 19% FOC....You can stay with your current arrows and unglue the inserts and cut them to 28" (too weak at 29") and use a 225 grain broadhead. I'm guessing you got the >19% from Dr. Ashby's research on penetration, and this is what he used to get that FOC: Grizzly broadheads and steel weight adapters. I followed the same logic this year and bought from these guys with no problems, but I haven't sent one through an elk yet to give you a report, but I can tell you that they get sharper than ****:
http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_5.htm
http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_23.htm
With your newly cut 28" 2413 arrows and 225 grain broadhead, then the recommended spine becomes .369, and your arrows are .365, so you're good there. The numbers for this new arrow: 207.8 fps, 19.11% FOC, 57.9 ft-lbs KE, and 604 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50, KE @ 50: 73.1", 47.1 ft-lbs.
To go with a carbon, I'll pick a weight forward arrow by design, Carbon Express Maxima Hunter, and the best broadhead made, Silver Flames. For a 29" arrow and 210 grain Silver Flames, the recommended spine would be .373, and the Maxima Hunter 350's are .337 spine, so they'd be stiff but should work just fine. The numbers for this setup: 226.6 fps, 19.43% FOC, 58.4 ft-lbs KE, 512 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50, KE at 50: 59.8", 48.6 ft-lbs.
Good luck in your pursuit!
Post by: littlebuf on January 21, 2010, 07:21:47 PM
07 bowtech commander
30 inch draw-Dloop
70/72 pound draw
125 grain shuttle T's
3-3.15 quik spin vains
LT cheeta 300 carbon arrows
those pretty see through green knocks :)
307 with a IBO
274-278 with hunting wieght arrows
what da ya say
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on January 22, 2010, 07:20:07 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on January 22, 2010, 10:10:59 AM
i wanna play, tho i dont know what spine arrow i currantly have. here goesI say it takes a big dog to weigh a ton, and an even bigger one to **** a ton!
07 bowtech commander
30 inch draw-Dloop
70/72 pound draw
125 grain shuttle T's
3-3.15 quik spin vains
LT cheeta 300 carbon arrows
those pretty see through green knocks :)
307 with a IBO
274-278 with hunting wieght arrows
what da ya say
There ends the philosophy lesson. I'm guessing that you mean 307 with an IBO arrow, since that's what the program came up with, also. I'm also guessing that you mean CT Cheetah, as in Carbon Tech, so that's what I used. However, the CT Cheetah at 29" show as weighing 402 grains and flying at 296, and it took a 502 grain arrow to slow your bow down to the quoted 276 FPS. So my thoughts are this: you know the speed of your hunting arrows, which are not CT Cheetah's, but you want to know the numbers on your 3D/target arrows. So that's what I can do. Also, I didn't see a length on the arrows, so I'm going to guess it at 29". Any of these assumptions will change the numbers some, so let me know which assumptions I made that are way out of line, and I can run it again. The numbers for a CT Cheetah 55/80 (.330 spine) and 125 grain heads: recommended spine is .321, so you're good there, 294 fps, 12.22% FOC, 79.74 ft-lbs KE, 414.5 grain arrow.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE @ 50
33", 65.7 ft-lbs
Let me know which assumptions are wrong, and I'll let you know what the changes are.
Post by: Todd_ID on January 22, 2010, 10:45:08 AM
My friend shoots the Mathews (Hard time calling him a friend now ;) ) XLR8 Monster, 70# (set at 65) 30" DL, currently shooting Easton 2216 Super Slams, cut to 31", 100 grain tips. I have advised him these seem to be heavy and to switch to a carbon, such as ST Epics. Could you run this for him? Thanks!
I can do that. The numbers for his current arrows: recommended spine is .269, and the 2216's are .376 spine, so he's WAY underspined, 303 fps, 9.1% FOC, 111.1 ft-lbs KE, 545.1 grain arrows. Man, I don't know about switching to carbon just because those are heavy because that bow is simply laying the lumber to the critters. I'd advise switching arrows to get the proper spine because they aren't flying well and to get a heavier arrow to slow it down to a more controllable speed, but I don't know if either of these are concerns for him. The complete lack of spine that arrow has versus what is needed, however, is something that probably should be addressed for safety reasons alone: off-the-charts stiff isn't a major problem, but off-the-charts weak like this is can explode arrows. Here's a better aluminum in the right spine: 2613's at 30" and 125 grain heads look good to me: .265 spine, 293 fps, 11.9% FOC, 113 ft-lbs KE, 592 grain arrows. To get the right spine in carbon, there're only 2 made: GrizzlyStiks and Easton Axis FMJ Dangerous Game, so I'll do it with the Axis DG 250's and 125 grain heads. Recommended spine at 31" is .237, so that'll work with those arrows being .250 spine, 263 fps, 10.6% FOC, 113.6 ft-lbs KE, 739.3 grain arrow.
I went to the 125 grain heads because the FOC was so small with the 100 grain heads.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
2216 w/ 100 grain heads: 31.1", 90.5 ft-lbs
2613 w/ 125 grain heads: 34", 90.1 ft-lbs
Axis w/ 125 grain heads: 43", 93.7 ft-lbs
Post by: littlebuf on January 22, 2010, 09:29:57 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on January 23, 2010, 06:55:16 AM
yes the IBO i was referring to was the chrony on a IBO arrow, all be it a too short IBO arrow. the other speed i mentioned was with my field points, i have not had my shuttle T's chrony'd. i put them on my digital scale and they weigh 438.6grains. i forgot to measure them but i know when i had them cut there was not much to cut off so 29 or maybe a little longer.
I'm still missing something if you weighed the Carbon Tech Cheetah arrows with 125 grain points at 438.6 grains, unless you are shooting a 33.5" shaft, and I think they come in 31" shaft length max. I came up with 402 grains with a 29" shaft and 125 grain points. Is there an insert weight or nock adapter that I don't know about? My wife's CT Cheetah's use standard nocks and the normal CT insert, but maybe you've got something else? Look over my results post for you and see if I screwed something up, because the speed shouldn't be that far off, maybe 1 or 2 fps, but not 20 fps.
Post by: littlebuf on January 23, 2010, 08:55:43 AM
"They are made by Carbon Tech which is McKinney's company. There are two versions of the Cheetah. The Cheetah Hunter and the Cheetah 3D. The latter are about $40/doz more - supposed to be tighter tollerance.
These shafts are one of the lighter weight of the higher end carbon shafts. They are even lighter than Easton's Lightspeed. 400 spine Cheetah goes 6.4g/inch while the 400 Lightspeed runs 7.4g/inch.
I have been told McKinney's carbon arrows are among the best as to spine, as well as weight and straightness. According to Limbwalker, consistant spine may be the most important."
im pretty sure its a LT on the shaft if its a C it would take some imagination to see it as one :dunno: just measured the arrows at 28 7/8 from tip insert to knock. maybe the chrony was off :dunno:
Post by: Todd_ID on January 23, 2010, 09:29:15 AM
I know the symbol you're talking about, and it is a C, just a weird one. No big deal. The quote you had off the search is correct; they are about the best for consistency of spine. I hate to say it, but it's a good chance that the chrony was off. The way to tell would be to use the arrow drop numbers that I gave you above. Shoot at a point that is 33" above the center dot of your target from 50 yards with your 20 yard pin. The arrow should hit the center of the target if the software is correct and should be significantly lower if your chrony numbers are right.
im pretty sure its a LT on the shaft if its a C it would take some imagination to see it as one :dunno: just measured the arrows at 28 7/8 from tip insert to knock. maybe the chrony was off :dunno:
Post by: littlebuf on January 23, 2010, 11:01:09 AM
Post by: konrad on February 01, 2010, 08:16:17 PM
Sounds interesting!
07 Bear Truth (hard cam)
60 pound draw
29 inch shaft
27 inch draw length
2 inch Blazers
The question is: What spine arrow and weight broadhead will give me a 19% FOC balance point?
I currently use a 2413 with 100 grain points, Bohnig signature nocks and 2 inch blazers.
My FOC is almost 11%.
Thanks for the help,
Konrad
Your current setup: Recommended spine: .434, your spine: .365, so it's off the charts stiff. The numbers: 231 fps, 10.68% FOC, 58.1 ft-lbs KE, 489.5 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50: 58", KE at 50: 47.1 ft-lbs
To get above 19% FOC....You can stay with your current arrows and unglue the inserts and cut them to 28" (too weak at 29") and use a 225 grain broadhead. I'm guessing you got the >19% from Dr. Ashby's research on penetration, and this is what he used to get that FOC: Grizzly broadheads and steel weight adapters. I followed the same logic this year and bought from these guys with no problems, but I haven't sent one through an elk yet to give you a report, but I can tell you that they get sharper than ****:
http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_5.htm (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_5.htm)
http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_23.htm (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_23.htm)
With your newly cut 28" 2413 arrows and 225 grain broadhead, then the recommended spine becomes .369, and your arrows are .365, so you're good there. The numbers for this new arrow: 207.8 fps, 19.11% FOC, 57.9 ft-lbs KE, and 604 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50, KE @ 50: 73.1", 47.1 ft-lbs.
To go with a carbon, I'll pick a weight forward arrow by design, Carbon Express Maxima Hunter, and the best broadhead made, Silver Flames. For a 29" arrow and 210 grain Silver Flames, the recommended spine would be .373, and the Maxima Hunter 350's are .337 spine, so they'd be stiff but should work just fine. The numbers for this setup: 226.6 fps, 19.43% FOC, 58.4 ft-lbs KE, 512 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50, KE at 50: 59.8", 48.6 ft-lbs.
Good luck in your pursuit!
Thanks Todd,
Your program’s speed and FOC calculations are right on for my arrow configuration.
Yes, I have read almost all of the good doctor’s reports.
I choose the 2413’s using the Easton shaft selector program and they seem to work admirably as far as I can reliably see (60 yards).
I will save your data for reference as I will be going to the 19% some time soon for experimentation.
The Grizzly single bevels make a lot of sense and that is on the list too.
I like the idea of using battleship technology (Grizzly/EFOC/600 grain total arrow weight) with supersonic power systems (modern compound platform)!
Thanks again,
K
Post by: PYSEEKER on February 01, 2010, 10:23:47 PM
Can you run these numbers?
2006 Allegiance
28" draw
set @ 64#
Trophy Taker full capture
28" AC Super Slim 400's X knock
100 grain Shuttle T 3 blade
2" Blazers
D-loop
Post by: Todd_ID on February 02, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
Todd,No problem. This is all figured at 65% letoff, but going to 80% only drops the speed by about 1.5 fps, so it'd be very similar numbers. It looks like the recommended spine for your setup is .378, so your .400 spines are a little weak, but not too bad. If you went to a 125 grain head, then you might have troubles with them flying straight, but they probably are flying fine with the 100 grain heads. You are at 281 fps, 12.01% FOC, 72.4 ft-lbs KE, and 411.6 grain arrow weight.
Can you run these numbers?
2006 Allegiance
28" draw
set @ 64#
Trophy Taker full capture
28" AC Super Slim 400's X knock
100 grain Shuttle T 3 blade
2" Blazers
D-loop
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
29.2", 62 ft-lbs
Wind drift in 15 mph 90 degree crosswind at 50 yards is 6.1", and that's about as low as I've seen, so the Super Slims are looking pretty good there!
Post by: PYSEEKER on February 02, 2010, 12:05:06 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on February 05, 2010, 06:35:12 PM
2009 Hoyt Alphamax
27" draw
set @ 70#
Fuse double prong drop away..(dont know exact model)
Dont know arrow length, but would like to use Axis Camo 400's (they are 9.8 per inch)
No preference on broadhead yet... would probably like 125 though??
3 Fletch, blazers or standard, whatever...
D-loop
Need anymore info?? I guess my main question is what length to cut these 400's to in order to get them to spine good with this bow and a 125 point? Or will I have to go with a 100 point??? Hope not, I like a little more FOC.
Ernie
Post by: Hornseeker on February 06, 2010, 09:49:18 AM
Also Todd...can you tell me what I'd need to do to get a big old broadhead and high FOC going? I am talking about a 175 grain head WITH a 100 grain steel adptor.. Or... a 175 head screwed into a 100 grain brass insert...
Do I need the 300s???
Thanks!
Post by: Todd_ID on February 07, 2010, 09:11:11 AM
Cool Todd, I just got this bow yesterday... is this program to give me the results of my setup or to help me Get setup??? I know almost nothing about compounds and tuning them... I do know this.. I have like 5 dozen brand new axis 400 shafts... so am hoping to use them.... Here's what I know...Ernie,
2009 Hoyt Alphamax
27" draw
set @ 70#
Fuse double prong drop away..(dont know exact model)
Dont know arrow length, but would like to use Axis Camo 400's (they are 9.8 per inch)
No preference on broadhead yet... would probably like 125 though??
3 Fletch, blazers or standard, whatever...
D-loop
Need anymore info?? I guess my main question is what length to cut these 400's to in order to get them to spine good with this bow and a 125 point? Or will I have to go with a 100 point??? Hope not, I like a little more FOC.
Ernie
At first glance I thought there was no way the 400's would be stiff enough for that hot new bow. The saving grace is the shorter draw length allows a shorter arrow; they will work perfect cut at 27" with 125 grain heads since the recommended spine is .402. The numbers: 261.9 fps, 14.64% FOC, 65.38 ft-lbs KE, 430 grain arrow weight.
To use the heavy stuff you mentioned, then you'd be looking for a .320-.330 spine: I'll give you numbers from the Cabela's Stalker Extreme in 65/80 which is a .320 spine. Most likely any of the 340 class arrows would likely work, though, as long as you kept them 27" or shorter. Cabela's w/ 275 grain heads: 235 fps, 24.85% FOC, 68.6 ft-lbs KE, 559 grains.
Arrow drop 20-50, KE at 50
Axis 400's w/ 125 grain: 34.6", 56 ft-lbs
Cabela's 65/80 w/ 275 grain: 44.5", 58.5 ft-lbs
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 07, 2010, 10:21:29 AM
hoyt aphamax 35
65 pounds
27 draw
28 gold tip pros 5575
85 grain tips
QAD ultra rest
2 blazers
d-loop
I think total arrow weight is about 350 grains
Post by: Hornseeker on February 07, 2010, 02:44:33 PM
Thanks...
Post by: Todd_ID on February 07, 2010, 08:23:22 PM
can you run these numbers
hoyt aphamax 35
65 pounds
27 draw
28 gold tip pros 5575
85 grain tips
QAD ultra rest
2 blazers
d-loop
I think total arrow weight is about 350 grains
No problem! I don't see any problems on your setup. Recommended spine is .440, and yours are .400, so they're a bit stiff, but probably ok. The numbers: 268 fps, 11.6% FOC, 56 ft-lbs KE, 355 grain arrow weight. With enough stiffness to spare, you could go to 100 grain heads with no problems to get a little heavier. The numbers for 100 grain heads: 265 fps, 13.2% FOC, 57.7 ft-lbs, 370 grains.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
85 gr: 33", 48 ft-lbs
100 gr: 33.8", 49.02 ft-lbs
Post by: Hornseeker on February 08, 2010, 07:29:27 AM
Run the number for that same bow, Axis 340, 26" with 100 grain brass insert, 125 grain broadhead, 3 fletch... What kind of FOC and FPS and KE am I getting there??
Does your program pump out momentum numbers?
Ernie
Post by: Hornseeker on February 08, 2010, 07:30:13 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 08, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
thank you todd IDcan you run these numbers
hoyt aphamax 35
65 pounds
27 draw
28 gold tip pros 5575
85 grain tips
QAD ultra rest
2 blazers
d-loop
I think total arrow weight is about 350 grains
No problem! I don't see any problems on your setup. Recommended spine is .440, and yours are .400, so they're a bit stiff, but probably ok. The numbers: 268 fps, 11.6% FOC, 56 ft-lbs KE, 355 grain arrow weight. With enough stiffness to spare, you could go to 100 grain heads with no problems to get a little heavier. The numbers for 100 grain heads: 265 fps, 13.2% FOC, 57.7 ft-lbs, 370 grains.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
85 gr: 33", 48 ft-lbs
100 gr: 33.8", 49.02 ft-lbs
Post by: Hornseeker on February 09, 2010, 08:24:28 AM
Will this program run these extreme numbers? I need to buy some stiffer shafts and I'm trying to figure out if I can go with 340's or need to jump to 300's...
Here's my thought as above.. and you gave me the Cabelas arrow I needed, but I am going to buy axis arrows... IF I go with the 300, and need a 320 spine, I can just cut it a little longer right? OR...I can probably stick with the 340 and use it at 26"?
It is conceivable that I will have the Axis shaft, on the 70# AM 35... 27" draw... with a 100 grain insert and possibly up to a 290 grain head, but most likely something from 175-220... (I know, its retarded, but its fun!!)
Thanks for your help!
Ernie
Post by: Todd_ID on February 09, 2010, 07:01:08 PM
Todd,OK, the Axis 340 would work at 27" with 275 grain head. 23.4% FOC, 593 grains, 228 fps, momentum at 40: .5652. The 340 at 26.5" with 320 grain head: recommended spine is .328, 25.5 % FOC, 220 fps, momentum at 40: .5818. Your previous 400's with 125 grain momentum at 40: .4697.
Will this program run these extreme numbers? I need to buy some stiffer shafts and I'm trying to figure out if I can go with 340's or need to jump to 300's...
Here's my thought as above.. and you gave me the Cabelas arrow I needed, but I am going to buy axis arrows... IF I go with the 300, and need a 320 spine, I can just cut it a little longer right? OR...I can probably stick with the 340 and use it at 26"?
It is conceivable that I will have the Axis shaft, on the 70# AM 35... 27" draw... with a 100 grain insert and possibly up to a 290 grain head, but most likely something from 175-220... (I know, its retarded, but its fun!!)
Thanks for your help!
Ernie
Post by: 7mag. on February 09, 2010, 09:06:00 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on February 10, 2010, 09:43:15 AM
Hey Todd, I wonder if you could help me out. I am pretty new to bow hunting and I don't really know much about setting up my bow. I have an '09 Matthews Reezen 6.5 at 65 lbs., 29" draw length, with a D loop. I am shooting Beeman ICS Hunter 400, 9.1 gpi., with 100 grain muzzy 4 blades. I am changing broadheads to 3 blades, but I'm not sure witch ones yet, either G5 Montec's or Shuttle T locks. I am wondering if I'm shooting the right arrows and the right weight broadheads. Thanks.I can do that. At 9.1 gpi, then you must have the Camo Hunter, so that's what I'll use. Also, you didn't have an arrow length, so I'll use the same 29" as your draw length (this is the length of the carbon part of the arrow only for the purposes of this program, most arrow length references in archery are from the end of the insert to the bottom of the V of the nock). And I'll assume that you have them fletched with 3 2" Blazers. If one of these is a little off, then it's not a major problem.
It shows a recommended spine with your setup and my guesses to be .330", so your .400's are pretty weak. If you've got any flight problems at all, then that's a very likely candidate, and switching to .340's would likely help. Also, with that weak of a spine, make certain to regularly flex-and-roll the arrows listening for creaks and cracks, and never shoot one that your hear cracking because that is a broken arrow to be thrown out (just a little safety tip!). The numbers for your setup: 300 fps, 11.4% FOC, 84.5 ft-lbs KE, and 421 grain total arrow weight. If you do switch to the 340's, then the numbers would be: 295 fps, 10.8% FOC, 86.6 ft-lbs KE, 447 grain arrow.
Arrow Drop 20-50, KE at 50
400's: 25", 71.5 ft-lbs
340's: 26", 73.3 ft-lbs
Post by: Hornseeker on February 10, 2010, 11:27:55 AM
Lets say I only use this bow for Antelope..and I want a lightweight, FLAT and fast shooting setup... What arrow and broadhead combo can I use to get near 350 grains? Is that too much to ask/too little info?
And...how about a good middle of the road FOC here... How about the 400, cut to 26 inches (this is the 9.8 gpi 400) with a 175 grain head... (3 fletch)...
If you tire of amusing me here....I understand!! :chuckle:
Post by: LittleJohn on February 10, 2010, 07:26:21 PM
29.5" draw
67 lbs
I plan on shooting a 340 Easton FMJ with a wrap and 3 blazer veins. 28" arrow with a 125 grain tip. Total arrow weight is 490 grains.
Do u need any more info than this??? I am wondering what my FPS and Kenetic energy will be. THANKS ALLOT JOHN
Post by: 7mag. on February 10, 2010, 10:24:09 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 11, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
2009 Hoyt Alpha Max 32
28" Draw Length
70# Pull
Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5 GPI)
Cut Length 27.5"
2" Blazers.
3 Fletches
125 Grain BH
3 Blades
Peep Sight (without the bungee chord)
D-Loop
QAD Ultra Rest
Question #1. What is my Arrow Weight, Arrow Speed, Kinetic Energy, and FOC for this setup
Question #2.
I am debating between four different Arrow/Broad Head Combos. Could you help me see which one would be the best setup for me. FOC and KE is the most important. Here are the four combos I am looking at.
#1Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5) w/100g BH. #2Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5) w/125g BH
#3Easton Axis Camo 340s (10.3) w/100g BH #4Easton Axis Camo 340s (10.3) w/125g BH
Question #3. Is a 27.5" arrow the best cut length for a 28" draw?
Post by: Todd_ID on February 11, 2010, 07:19:54 PM
OK, I dont want to be a Todd Hog here, but this fascinates me..Sorry for the delay...internet service on a boat comes and goes sometimes. Here's what I found for you:
Lets say I only use this bow for Antelope..and I want a lightweight, FLAT and fast shooting setup... What arrow and broadhead combo can I use to get near 350 grains? Is that too much to ask/too little info?
And...how about a good middle of the road FOC here... How about the 400, cut to 26 inches (this is the 9.8 gpi 400) with a 175 grain head... (3 fletch)...
If you tire of amusing me here....I understand!! :chuckle:
The Axis 400's you have at 26" with an 85 grain Slick Trick heads would be a 381 grain arrow, 274 fps, 11.04% FOC, 63.6 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine is .421, so you'd be fine there. Arrow drop 20-50: 31", KE at 50: 54.6, Momentum @ 40: .4364, 7" hit window (meaning the yardages you would hit a 7" target ('lope kill) by putting your 40 yard pin in the center) with 40 yard pin: 36-43 yards.
Another option to get right to the 350 grains would be using Gold TIp XT Hunters (black not camo) in 5575 at 27" with 85 grain Slick Tricks to get a 350 grain arrow, 280.7 fps, 11.4% FOC, 61.1 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine is .408, 20-50 drop: 29.5%, KE at 50: 52.0, momentum at 40: .4083, 7" hit window with 40 yard pin 36-43 yards.
I don't see any reason to change to the Gold Tips unless you just need to spend some money for a tax break.....
The numbers for an Axis 400 @ 26" with 175 grain heads: 470 grain arrow, 256 fps, 18.8% FOC, 68.3 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine is .366, so they may be a little weak, but would probably work, 20-50 drop: 36.6", KE @ 50: 58.7, momentum at 40: .5022, 12" hit window (elk) for different pins: 30 pin: 0-36 yds, 40 pin: 33-45, 50 pin: 46-53, 60 pin: 57-63.
Post by: Todd_ID on February 11, 2010, 07:48:11 PM
Question #1. What is my Arrow Weight, Arrow Speed, Kinetic Energy, and FOC for this setup
Question #2.
I am debating between four different Arrow/Broad Head Combos. Could you help me see which one would be the best setup for me. FOC and KE is the most important. Here are the four combos I am looking at.
#1Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5) w/100g BH. #2Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5) w/125g BH
#3Easton Axis Camo 340s (10.3) w/100g BH #4Easton Axis Camo 340s (10.3) w/125g BH
Question #3. Is a 27.5" arrow the best cut length for a 28" draw?
OK, for your setup: 428 grain arrow, 280 fps, 14.9% FOC, 74.3 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine is .319, so you're a bit weak and may or may not explain flight problems. 20-50 drop: 29.8", KE @ 50: 63.2
Go to a 100 grain broadhead, and you get: 403 grain arrow, 284.8 fps, 12.7% FOC, 72.6 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop: 28.5", KE @ 50: 61.7 ft-lbs, recommended spine of .330, so that's quite a bit better.
Switch to ST Axis Camo 340's at 27.5" and 100 grain heads: .330 recommended spine, 423 grain arrow, 280 fps, 11.9% FOC, 74 ft-lbs, Drop 20-50: 29.4", KE at 50: 63.3 ft-lbs. Go with those arrows with 125 grain heads and you get: recommended spine of .320, 448 grain arrow, 275 fps, 14.05% FOC, 75.5 ft-lbs KE, drop 20-50: 30.8", KE at 50: 64.6 ft-lbs.
To answer the last question, it depends on how you like the arrow and broadhead in relation to your fingers on the bow at full draw. Less than draw length arrows are generally considered short, and draw length +1" is generally considered safer. With the recommended spines that you see above for your setup, then I'd say stick to as short as you can go because you are borderline spine-weak, and cutting them longer would only make them weaker. You could turn your bow down two turns (around 5#) and probably get away with longer arrows, but that's up to you.
Post by: Todd_ID on February 11, 2010, 07:54:57 PM
Hey Todd. I just ordered a Destroyer 340. It will be here in a couple weeks. I am going to shoot it at
29.5" draw
67 lbs
I plan on shooting a 340 Easton FMJ with a wrap and 3 blazer veins. 28" arrow with a 125 grain tip. Total arrow weight is 490 grains.
Do u need any more info than this??? I am wondering what my FPS and Kenetic energy will be. THANKS ALLOT JOHN
Looks like you'll be at 288.3 fps, 12.6% FOC, 89.3 ft-lbs KE
Post by: Hornseeker on February 12, 2010, 07:21:21 AM
Post by: Hornseeker on February 12, 2010, 07:25:04 AM
If so.. here...
31 inch Axis 400
260 grain head
3 @4 inch feathers
3 feet in front of bow, traveling at 186 fps
Post by: Todd_ID on February 12, 2010, 12:56:52 PM
Todd, can you plug in FPS and arrow weight/length broadhead numbers and get the energy/momentum/drop #'s even if I dont give you a bow to work with? Just curious... if I was to give you numbers from my Longbow...I think so...I just dropped the IBO speed of the bow down until the calculated speed was the same as your known speed. Launch speed and arrow configuration are all it takes to figure trajectory and drag, so they should be close. I'll give numbers that you would need with a longbow instead of a compound...I think.
If so.. here...
31 inch Axis 400
260 grain head
3 @4 inch feathers
3 feet in front of bow, traveling at 186 fps
Calculated weight 598 grains, 22.3% FOC, 46.23 ft-lbs KE.
Momentum, Speed
@ 0 yds: .4956, 186 fps,
@ 10 yds: .4819, 181 fps,
@20 yds: .4686, 176 fps,
@30 yds: .4557, 171 fps,
@40 yds: .4432, 167 fps.
Drop numbers are as if you shot the shot for the first range and the animal was actually at the second range.
Drop
10-15: 1.85"
10-20: 6.4"
10-30: 24"
10-40: 53"
20-30: 14"
20-40: 40.5"
30-40: 21.3"
10-100: 518"
40-100: 384"
Post by: Gobble Gobble on February 12, 2010, 02:39:32 PM
Bow~ Martin, Magnum "Phantom" 2002 +/-
Draw~ 29"
Weight~ 55-70 set @ #63
Arrow~ Gold Tip, Pro Hunter 5575 w/ standard nock/inserts & 5" arrow wrap
Vanes~ FOB
Broadhead~ 100gr. 3 blade Slick Trick Magnum
Shoot a release w/ string loop & fall away rest. I'm shooting out to 70 yards.
Post by: colockumelk on February 12, 2010, 03:07:08 PM
Question #1. What is my Arrow Weight, Arrow Speed, Kinetic Energy, and FOC for this setup
Question #2.
I am debating between four different Arrow/Broad Head Combos. Could you help me see which one would be the best setup for me. FOC and KE is the most important. Here are the four combos I am looking at.
#1Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5) w/100g BH. #2Easton Epic Black 340's (9.5) w/125g BH
#3Easton Axis Camo 340s (10.3) w/100g BH #4Easton Axis Camo 340s (10.3) w/125g BH
Question #3. Is a 27.5" arrow the best cut length for a 28" draw?
OK, for your setup: 428 grain arrow, 280 fps, 14.9% FOC, 74.3 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine is .319, so you're a bit weak and may or may not explain flight problems. 20-50 drop: 29.8", KE @ 50: 63.2
Go to a 100 grain broadhead, and you get: 403 grain arrow, 284.8 fps, 12.7% FOC, 72.6 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop: 28.5", KE @ 50: 61.7 ft-lbs, recommended spine of .330, so that's quite a bit better.
Switch to ST Axis Camo 340's at 27.5" and 100 grain heads: .330 recommended spine, 423 grain arrow, 280 fps, 11.9% FOC, 74 ft-lbs, Drop 20-50: 29.4", KE at 50: 63.3 ft-lbs. Go with those arrows with 125 grain heads and you get: recommended spine of .320, 448 grain arrow, 275 fps, 14.05% FOC, 75.5 ft-lbs KE, drop 20-50: 30.8", KE at 50: 64.6 ft-lbs.
To answer the last question, it depends on how you like the arrow and broadhead in relation to your fingers on the bow at full draw. Less than draw length arrows are generally considered short, and draw length +1" is generally considered safer. With the recommended spines that you see above for your setup, then I'd say stick to as short as you can go because you are borderline spine-weak, and cutting them longer would only make them weaker. You could turn your bow down two turns (around 5#) and probably get away with longer arrows, but that's up to you.
Okay one last question and then I'll leave you alone. Looking at my data what would you recommend I shoot. I really want to stay at 70# since I am very comfortable at that weight. What spine #/BH weight/Epic or Axis/Arrow Shaft length combination would you recommend I shoot. Again I am more concerned with proper FOC and best KE. Again thanks for the help.
Post by: Machias on February 12, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
10-100: 518"
40-100: 384"
No wonder I keep missing!!!!!!!! :)
Post by: Todd_ID on February 12, 2010, 05:59:10 PM
Bottom line: your stuff now will go through elk no problem without spending money. Turning the bow dow to fix flight problems is free, and you don't lose very much in doing so.
Post by: Todd_ID on February 12, 2010, 07:17:39 PM
I'll take what info you can give.Didn't see an arrow length there, so I'll give you the numbers at 29" arrows. Looks like your setup (with a 29" arrow) has a recommended spine of .372, and your 5575's are .400, so you're a bit weak, but I don't see it being a problem (Slick Tricks are great at hiding form and spine errors). The numbers: 273 fps, 396 grain arrow weight, 10.3% FOC, 65 ft-lbs KE.
Bow~ Martin, Magnum "Phantom" 2002 +/-
Draw~ 29"
Weight~ 55-70 set @ #63
Arrow~ Gold Tip, Pro Hunter 5575 w/ standard nock/inserts & 5" arrow wrap
Vanes~ FOB
Broadhead~ 100gr. 3 blade Slick Trick Magnum
Shoot a release w/ string loop & fall away rest. I'm shooting out to 70 yards.
Arrow drop 20-50: 30.3", KE @ 50: 60 ft-lbs
12" hit window yardage range with:
30 pin: 6-37 yds
40 pin: 31-45 yds
50 pin: 45-54 yds
60 pin: 56-63 yds
70 pin: 67-73 yds
I don't see any major problems there. If your arrows are longer than the 29" guess, then you might be in the neighborhood of spine too weak.
Post by: Hornseeker on February 12, 2010, 07:24:02 PM
Post by: Gobble Gobble on February 13, 2010, 09:03:48 PM
Thanks for the info and Yes, I am shoot a 29" arrow. Good to know about being under spined, would explain flight issues last year shooting 125gr BH's. Thought shooting FOB's might throw you program off as a lot of people don't know what they are.
Depending on weather conditions and how many rounds shot I'm grouping 6-18" at 70 yards for 5 arrows since changing to 100gr BH and FOB's.
Post by: colockumelk on February 16, 2010, 09:32:30 AM
Colockumelk: My recommendation is to use what you've got unless either you are having poor broadhead flight or love spending money. If flight issues are there, then maybe try turning your bow down one full turn on each limb bolt and see how that works; if it gets better but not great, then try another full turn. Going to 100 grain heads with the Epics you have would also help, but that means spending money and giving up weight. If you simply want to switch arrows and broadheads, then the ST Axis 340 and 100 grain heads looks pretty good, but it's about the same as what you've got just with a different head weight.
Bottom line: your stuff now will go through elk no problem without spending money. Turning the bow dow to fix flight problems is free, and you don't lose very much in doing so.
I don't mind spending the money to get the best setup possible. If I switched to a ST Epic 300 and kept the 125 grain head would that give me a better FOC, a proper spine and also more KE? Thanks again. This will be the first season that I will have 100% confidence in my stuff because of you.
Here's my dope again.
2009 Hoyt Alpha Max 32
28" Draw Length
70# Pull
Easton Epic Black 300's (10.00 GPI)
Cut Length 27.5"
2" Blazers.
3 Fletches
125 Grain BH
3 Blades
Peep Sight (without the bungee chord)
D-Loop
QAD Ultra Rest
Post by: Todd_ID on February 16, 2010, 10:11:55 AM
Really I don't see any big benefit in switching to the .300 spine Epics with 125 grain heads. The numbers for your setup with the 300s are: 276 fps, 442 grains, 14.4% FOC, 75.2 ft-lbs KE. Arrow Drop 20-50, 30.5", 63.9 ft-lbs KE @ 50. That isn't a big enough gain to warrant the expense of new arrows, in my book.
Here're the numbers that it gives for your setup if you turn each limb bolt down 1 turn (to 67# draw weight) with your 340s and 125 grain heads: Recommended spine of .330, 274 fps, 14.9% FOC, 71.5 ft-lbs KE, 428 grain arrow. Arrow drop 20-50: 31.2", KE @ 50: 60.8 ft-lbs. That one turn is free, and it could be the answer you're looking for; giving up 2.4 ft-lbs KE at 50 yards is nothing when your bow starts out with so much.
Again, I don't want to advocate any changes if your arrows are flying well with broadheads. Your setup is just one of those that's on the borderline for POSSIBLE flight problems not PROBABLE. This software is a starting point, but it is not the final say in what works or doesn't. Remember that the software assumes that the bow is well tuned and that the broadheads spin true with the shafts; either of these places could be good starting points in a quest for better grouping. My guess in your case is that your continued practice in the off season will do more than any amount of money that you could throw at equipment. If practice alone doesn't lead to good broadhead grouping, then try taking one turn off the limb bolts. If that still doesn't help, then maybe try a different style of broadhead (think Slick Trick or Shuttle T) that are designed to fly exceptionally well. Your 340s aren't far enough underspined to cause many problems, in my opinion.
Remember, confidence comes from having average equipment that you are well practiced with not from perfect equipment alone!
Post by: colockumelk on February 17, 2010, 11:56:41 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on February 17, 2010, 01:38:34 PM
Thank you for all of the help. I'll go with your recommendation and go down to 67#. I have one quick question. What is the range that I want my FOC to be?FOC ranges depend on many things: form, hand torque, bow tuning, etc. The normal recommended for broadheads to fly well is 12-15%. For target only many like to get down to 8-10% to get the flatter trajectory. Basically the more FOC you have on your arrow, then the more leverage the fletching has available for steering. Get to an extreme FOC, say 19%+, and you start seeing penetration benefits through bone because the concentration of mass up front is pulling the arrow through the animal instead of the weight of the arrow pushing it.
Post by: colockumelk on February 17, 2010, 05:01:43 PM
Post by: jackelope on February 17, 2010, 05:11:10 PM
You should probably write a book. Again thanks for the help.
you should see him in person...
:chuckle:
Post by: Emptyhanded on February 17, 2010, 06:32:05 PM
My set up:
2006 Martin Jaguar
29 inch draw
27 inch arrow
60#
I am currently shooting some cheap Satellite arrows so i don't know the spine or gpi, but i would like to know what spine i need when I buy new arrows. I will probably buy Beman ICS Bowhunters or Cabelas Stalker extremes ( not sure if you need this info or not).
Thanks again, I appreciate it.
Post by: Todd_ID on February 17, 2010, 08:38:27 PM
Certainly a face fit for radio!You should probably write a book. Again thanks for the help.
you should see him in person...
:chuckle:
Post by: Todd_ID on February 17, 2010, 08:55:44 PM
Hey Todd i was wondering if you could run my set up again with 27" arrows? I need to know if i need 400 spine or 340. Thanks!Looks like a 27" arrow with your 125 grain heads needs a .370 spine. Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/75 are .390, so that should work. I'd rather suggest someone go stiffer on the spine though, and the Beman ICS Bowhunter 340s would fit that bill. The Beman 340s would be a 425 grain arrow, and the Cabelas 5575s would be a 387 grain arrow; Beman 340s win again. The Stalker Extreme 65/80s are a .320 spine, and that's a bit much for what you need, puls they'd only end up being a 408 grain arrow.
My set up:
2006 Martin Jaguar
29 inch draw
27 inch arrow
60#
I am currently shooting some cheap Satellite arrows so i don't know the spine or gpi, but i would like to know what spine i need when I buy new arrows. I will probably buy Beman ICS Bowhunters or Cabelas Stalker extremes ( not sure if you need this info or not).
Thanks again, I appreciate it.
The numbers for the 27" ICS Bowhunter 340s and 125 grain heads: 267 fps, 14.8% FOC, 67.7 ft-lbs KE, Arrow Drop 20-50: 33", KE @ 50: 64 ft-lbs.
Should you elect to go with the 5575 Stalker Extremes, then the numbers are: 275 fps, 16.1% FOC, 65.2 ft-lbs KE, Arrow Drop 20-50: 30.8", KE @ 50: 55.6 ft-lbs.
You're probably not going to shoot 50 yards without using a rangefinder or having the ability to judge accuartely, so I don't think the 3" difference in drop is a problem, and you'd be gaining 14% more KE at 50 with the heavier Bemans.
Post by: Emptyhanded on February 17, 2010, 09:34:17 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 22, 2010, 01:00:02 PM
2009 Hoyt Kobalt
IBO: 290FPS @60lb
27" Draw Length
45lb Draw
Easton Epic Black 500's (7.3gpi)
Cut 26.5"
2" blazers
3 fletchings
100grain or 85grain broad head.
3 bladed broad head
Peep sight (without bungee chord)
D-Loop
Whisker Bisquit Rest.
Again thank you so much for you time and efforts Todd. I'll be in the south so I can't offer you any good hunts other than hogs. But you're welcome anytime.
Post by: Todd_ID on February 22, 2010, 01:39:31 PM
Could you give me some advice for my wifes bow. Here's her setup. I'm wondering what would be better. If she had an 85grain head and a 100grain head. Again I'm more concerned with KE, proper spine and FOC than with speed. Thanks again.
2009 Hoyt Kobalt
IBO: 290FPS @60lb
27" Draw Length
45lb Draw
Easton Epic Black 500's (7.3gpi)
Cut 26.5"
2" blazers
3 fletchings
100grain or 85grain broad head.
3 bladed broad head
Peep sight (without bungee chord)
D-Loop
Whisker Bisquit Rest.
Again thank you so much for you time and efforts Todd. I'll be in the south so I can't offer you any good hunts other than hogs. But you're welcome anytime.
No problem.. The numbers for 85 grain heads: recommended spine is .751, so the 500's are stiff, but probaby still fly fine, 195 fps, 320 grain arrow, 13.5% FOC, 27.2 ft-lbs KE, arrow drop 20-50: 67", KE @ 50: 23.3 ft-lbs.
The numbers for the same setup with 100 grain heads: recommended spine .720, 192 fps, 335 grain arrow, 15.1% FOC, 27.6 ft-lbs, arrow drop 20-50: 69", KE @ 50: 23.6 ft-lbs.
Get her up to 50# draw weight through the summer practice, and you'll be increasing the KE by 10% to 201 fps, and 30.2 ft-lbs KE with the 100 grain heads and the 85 grain heads will be 204 fps, 29.7 ft-lbs KE.
Momentum is more important than KE for potential penetration, at 45# and 85 grain heads the initial momentum is .2784, and the momentum at 30 is .2657. At 45# and 100 grain heads, initial is .2869, and at 30 yards is .2738.
Basically the decision comes down to a 3% gain in momentum at 30 yards between the two heads. My take is that either head is acceptable, and that shot placement is going to be critical with either head. My uncle has killed dozens of elk with a 40# bow that has less energy than your wife's bow has, so don't let anyone tell you it won't work; the caveat is that it has to be a good shot, away from the shoulder; it'll break elk ribs, but not the shoulder by any means.
Post by: colockumelk on February 22, 2010, 02:24:23 PM
Oh I also made a mistake. The IBO is 310 fps. Sorry :DOH:
Post by: Todd_ID on February 22, 2010, 06:42:50 PM
In regards to all of the above would you recommend her shooting Easton's Flatlines that are only 6.5gpi? I havn't bought any arrows yet so I just want to figure out what would be the best thing to start off with. Thanks again.I'd stick with what you've got on the Epics. Heavier is better every time. The extra spine from the arrows being too stiff will most likely be whittled away as she shoots more and more and the draw weight gets turned up.
Oh I also made a mistake. The IBO is 310 fps. Sorry :DOH:
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 10, 2010, 04:37:15 PM
27 inch draw
64pounds
D-loop
QAD ultra rest
first arrow gold tip pro 5575 28 inches long.
fletched with three 2 inch blazers
85 grain field tip.
the second arrow is a 400 easton light speed 3D (i think 7.4 GPI)
28 1/2 long
2 inch blazers
g-nocks
85 grain glue in tips
Post by: Todd_ID on March 10, 2010, 09:43:20 PM
I'm thinking about buying the hoyt aphaburner but i was wanted to know if you could run some numbers on two different arrows first. 340 IBO i thinkGold Tip: recommended spine .350, so the .400 spine 5575 are pretty weak. 292 fps, 355 grain arrow, 11.5% FOC, 67.4 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop: 26.7", KE @ 50: 57.2 ft-lbs.
27 inch draw
64pounds
D-loop
QAD ultra rest
first arrow gold tip pro 5575 28 inches long.
fletched with three 2 inch blazers
85 grain field tip.
the second arrow is a 400 easton light speed 3D (i think 7.4 GPI)
28 1/2 long
2 inch blazers
g-nocks
85 grain glue in tips
Easton: rec spine: .352, so 400's are still weak. 299 fps, 323 grain arrow, 9.4% FOC, 64 ft-lbs KE, 25.2" drop, 54.6 ft-lbs KE @ 50. Cut these to 26" and you get 303 fps, 9.8% FOC, 304 grain arrow, 24.3" drop with recommended spine of .384, so it'd be more in the ballpark.
Post by: PacificNWhunter on March 11, 2010, 07:44:59 AM
63 lbs draw weight
D-loop
Mathews fallaway rest
400 Easton ST Axis 28" arrows
3, 2" blazer veins
peep site
100 grn field tips
forgot to ad, IBO of 342
Post by: Todd_ID on March 11, 2010, 01:34:34 PM
27.5 inch drawDidn't see the type of bow that you're thinking about, so I used the 2010 Mathews Monster 7, because it has the same IBO rating. Recommended spine for that arrow is .362, so the 400's are a little weak, and I think broadheads would fly much more reliably with the 340's, but that's up to you. Looks like the 400's would be 289 fps, 392 grain arrow, 12.6% FOC, 73 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop: 27.2", KE @ 50: 62.6 ft-lbs. The 340's would be 287 fps, 406 grain arrow, 12.2% FOC, 74.2 ft-lbs KE, 27.8" drop, KE @ 50: 63.5 ft-lbs.
63 lbs draw weight
D-loop
Mathews fallaway rest
400 Easton ST Axis 28" arrows
3, 2" blazer veins
peep site
100 grn field tips
forgot to ad, IBO of 342
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 11, 2010, 03:49:13 PM
Thanks toddI'm thinking about buying the hoyt aphaburner but i was wanted to know if you could run some numbers on two different arrows first. 340 IBO i thinkGold Tip: recommended spine .350, so the .400 spine 5575 are pretty weak. 292 fps, 355 grain arrow, 11.5% FOC, 67.4 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop: 26.7", KE @ 50: 57.2 ft-lbs.
27 inch draw
64pounds
D-loop
QAD ultra rest
first arrow gold tip pro 5575 28 inches long.
fletched with three 2 inch blazers
85 grain field tip.
the second arrow is a 400 easton light speed 3D (i think 7.4 GPI)
28 1/2 long
2 inch blazers
g-nocks
85 grain glue in tips
Easton: rec spine: .352, so 400's are still weak. 299 fps, 323 grain arrow, 9.4% FOC, 64 ft-lbs KE, 25.2" drop, 54.6 ft-lbs KE @ 50. Cut these to 26" and you get 303 fps, 9.8% FOC, 304 grain arrow, 24.3" drop with recommended spine of .384, so it'd be more in the ballpark.
Post by: PacificNWhunter on March 11, 2010, 04:01:26 PM
Post by: colockumelk on March 12, 2010, 03:03:45 PM
I have one question for my wifes bow. (I gave you the wrong stats last time sorry) Ive narrowed it down to three different arrow shafts. Could you please recommend to me which arrow setup would be better. I'm just currious about what the FPS, KE, FOC and drop would be for the following set up. The three arrow choices would be Axis 500 Camo (8.9gpi) The Axis 500 Black (8.1gpi) or the Epic 500 Black (7.3gpi)
I tried to find a 600 spine arrow but that doesn't seem to be too common of an arrow spine. So even though the 500 spine would be too stiff would it be okay? Thanks again.
Hoyt Kobalt
330fps IBO
27" draw length
50#pull weight
Arrow Length 27" Either (8.9gpi, 8.1gpi or 7.3 gpi)
100 grain G5 Stryker 3 blade.
Whisker Bisquit Rest
Peep sight
D-Loop
Post by: Todd_ID on March 12, 2010, 08:22:21 PM
I'm just currious about what the FPS, KE, FOC and drop would be for the following set up. The three arrow choices would be Axis 500 Camo (8.9gpi) The Axis 500 Black (8.1gpi) or the Epic 500 Black (7.3gpi)Axis Camo 500: 192 fps, 380 grain arrow, 13.2% FOC, 31.2 ft-lbs, 20-40 drop: 34.8"
I tried to find a 600 spine arrow but that doesn't seem to be too common of an arrow spine. So even though the 500 spine would be too stiff would it be okay? Thanks again.
Axis black 500: 197 fps, 358 gr, 13.9%, 30.8 ft-lbs, 34" drop
Epic 500 black: 201 fps, 339 gr, 14.9%, 30.3 ft-lbs, 32.5" drop.
Too stiff is way better than a little weak. Practice is going to be much more important than perfect equipment choices.
Post by: colockumelk on May 26, 2010, 04:05:18 PM
Post by: MasterMisser on May 26, 2010, 05:10:47 PM
Im shooting a 2010 Hoyt Maxxis. 80-70# draw. the bow maxed out is actually 84lbs. So 84# draw weight. 29" draw and Beman hunter elites cut at 27" with 3 AAE Max Hunter Fletchings, 100 grn field point, and Easton G-Nocks with UNI bushings. I think thats all you need... It chronos at 321.5 fps and if my math is right its Kenitic Energy is 86.77ft lbs with a total arrow weight of 378 grains.... O and my arrows are a 400 spine 8.4grains per inch....
whats your program show?????
Post by: Todd_ID on May 28, 2010, 07:06:49 AM
Hey Todd hows it going? Could you let me know the performance I can expect from my bowset up and my wifes bow set up. Such as the arrow speed, KE and arrow drop from 20yds out to 50yds. My bow is shooting a 455g arrow at 262 FPS. My wifes bow is shooting a 353g arrow at 229 FPS. Thanks. BTW thank you for the advice. Heavier is awsome. I have never shot so accurate. Love it or had so much trouble pulling arrows out of a target. (Awsome penetration) Thanks.
Need more info here. Point weights, fletch type, etc. all have an effect on the flight. Basically list out everything again, and I can make it happen, but there are too many variables to make guesses and end up anywhere near accurate results.
Post by: Todd_ID on May 28, 2010, 07:21:26 AM
Hey Todd could you please run my numbers...
Im shooting a 2010 Hoyt Maxxis. 80-70# draw. the bow maxed out is actually 84lbs. So 84# draw weight. 29" draw and Beman hunter elites cut at 27" with 3 AAE Max Hunter Fletchings, 100 grn field point, and Easton G-Nocks with UNI bushings. I think thats all you need... It chronos at 321.5 fps and if my math is right its Kenitic Energy is 86.77ft lbs with a total arrow weight of 378 grains.... O and my arrows are a 400 spine 8.4grains per inch....
whats your program show?????
Ok...looks like your setup should be somewhere near: 12.5% FOC, 20-50 drop: 21.1", KE @ 50: 73.4 at 296 fps. Recommended spine is .300 even, so you are way underspined with the 400's; better make damn sure to test every arrow before every shot and only use them with field points: that's the type of underspining that gets your picture on the internet with 10,000 pieces of carbon in your hand. I'm not saying that they can't work, but I personally wouldn't shoot your setup without a stiffer arrow. You'll most likely not have too good of luck getting a broadhead to fly without getting much closer to the proper spine.
Post by: MasterMisser on May 28, 2010, 09:55:53 AM
Post by: mtbiker on May 28, 2010, 10:02:25 AM
Post by: colockumelk on May 28, 2010, 05:48:36 PM
Hey Todd hows it going? Could you let me know the performance I can expect from my bowset up and my wifes bow set up. Such as the arrow speed, KE and arrow drop from 20yds out to 50yds. My bow is shooting a 455g arrow at 262 FPS. My wifes bow is shooting a 353g arrow at 229 FPS. Thanks. BTW thank you for the advice. Heavier is awsome. I have never shot so accurate. Love it or had so much trouble pulling arrows out of a target. (Awsome penetration) Thanks.
Need more info here. Point weights, fletch type, etc. all have an effect on the flight. Basically list out everything again, and I can make it happen, but there are too many variables to make guesses and end up anywhere near accurate results.
No problem here's my bow info.
Hoyt AM32. IBO is 321.
My draw weight is 68lbs and my draw length is 28"
My arrow is an Easton Axis 300 spine that is 10.7gpi
My tip is a 125g head. The insert weighs 19grains. (Havnt decided on the head. Deciding between the Shuttle T or the Slick Trick)
My arrow's are cut to 27" (if you include the nock. If not then 26.5") The nock weighs 9 grains
My fletchings are 2" blazers with a 3 degree offset to the left. Each vane is 6grains for a total of 18grains
The total arrow weight is 455grains and the chrono said it is shooting 262 fps.
My wifes bow is a Hoyt Kobalt. Its IBO is 310fps
Her draw weight is 46# and her draw length is 27"
Her arrow is an Easton Axis 500 that weighs 8.1gpi
Her tip is a 100g with a 19grain insert.
Her arrows are cut to 26" (if you include the nock. If not then 25.5")n The nock weighs 9 grains.
Her fletchings are 2" blazers with a 3 degree offset to the left. Each vane weighs 6 grains for a total of 18grains
The total arrow weight is 353 grains and the chrono said it is shooting 229fps
Hope this helps Todd. Thanks again. Hey do you recommend the Slick Trick magnum or the Shuttle T-Loc.?
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 30, 2010, 05:27:50 PM
The bow is a 2O1O hoyt maxxis 35, at 65lbs 29" draw.
My arrows are carbon express maxima hunter 35O's cut at 28". 1OOgr tip, 3 blazers and a blazer wrap, bulldog nock collar and the standard inserts and nocks for them.
Thanks!
Post by: Todd_ID on May 31, 2010, 05:13:27 AM
this was the set up that was recamended to me to maximize my arrows speed. I was told it would work just fine. Can you do me a fav and calculate the numbers using an 80lb draw... as well as switching over to the beman elites .340 spine? i would like to know the kinetic energy with the .340 spine and 80/84lbsWhy not just try and get the right spine? Speed should come third in line after safety and reliability of flight (proper spine), at least in my opinion.
Since you asked about the .340's and 80#, though, here it is: 311 fps, 398 grain arrow, 13.3% FOC, 85.4 ft-lbs KE
Go to 80# and the .300 spine ICS Hunter Elites and you get: 309 fps, 403 grain arrow, 13.1% FOC, 86 ft-lbs KE.
Post by: Todd_ID on May 31, 2010, 05:28:37 AM
Your bow: 13.8% FOC, 69.6 ft-lbs KE, 35" 20-50 drop, 58.1 ft-lbs KE @ 50 @ 239 fps.
Your wifes: 14.15%, 41 ft-lbs, 47.2" 20-50 drop, 35.3 ft-lbs @ 50 @ 212.5 fps.
I'd gladly recommend either broadhead. The Slick Tricks have killed several deer for me; with new blades they are scary sharp, they fly great, and I can resharpen them on my Lansky. The Shuttle T's I haven't shot, but I've seen 2 deer and an elk that have been killed with them, and they punch a nasty big hole all the way through because of the design, and everyone says they fly great.
Post by: Todd_ID on May 31, 2010, 05:40:55 AM
I want to see if my spine is correct.
The bow is a 2O1O hoyt maxxis 35, at 65lbs 29" draw.
My arrows are carbon express maxima hunter 35O's cut at 28". 1OOgr tip, 3 blazers and a blazer wrap, bulldog nock collar and the standard inserts and nocks for them.
Thanks!
No problem. Here's what it says for your setup: 287 fps, 391 grain arrow, 11.5% FOC, 71.3 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop is 28", KE @ 50 is 60.5 @ 264 fps. The recommended spine shows .379", so your .337" Maxima's are a bit stiff but not so much so that you'd notice any difference by spending hundreds for new arrows just to get a little closer to the proper spine. You could go to a 125 grain head and get a recommended spine of .366", 281 fps, 416 grain arrow, 13.9% FOC, 73.2 ft-lbs KE, 29.3" drop, 62.1 ft-lbs KE @ 50 @ 259.4 fps.
You're in a good spot to be able to play around a bit with point weights and see which flys best. If you''ve already got everything you could possibly want and are happy with it, then I say don't monkey with a not broke system. The biggest advantage I see in your setup going from 100 grains to 125 grains is the gain in FOC; you'll see better broadhead flight the higher you get.
Post by: colockumelk on May 31, 2010, 10:24:35 AM
Colockum,
Your bow: 13.8% FOC, 69.6 ft-lbs KE, 35" 20-50 drop, 58.1 ft-lbs KE @ 50 @ 239 fps.
Your wifes: 14.15%, 41 ft-lbs, 47.2" 20-50 drop, 35.3 ft-lbs @ 50 @ 212.5 fps.
I'd gladly recommend either broadhead. The Slick Tricks have killed several deer for me; with new blades they are scary sharp, they fly great, and I can resharpen them on my Lansky. The Shuttle T's I haven't shot, but I've seen 2 deer and an elk that have been killed with them, and they punch a nasty big hole all the way through because of the design, and everyone says they fly great.
Thanks Todd for the info. I think I'm gonna go witht he Slick Tricks. I've heard too much good stuff not to go with them. Plus I watched a broad head test where they shot an 55 galon barrel with various broadheads and the slick trick looked like it hadn't even been shot AND put a HUGE hole in the barrel as well.
Post by: Todd_ID on June 01, 2010, 06:08:38 AM
Post by: colockumelk on June 02, 2010, 03:00:39 PM
I've even bought a pack of Rage 2-blade mechanicals to try on some deer. Just because I'm a gear whore and I like to try everything. I will admit the nice thing about them is there isn't any broadhead tuning involved. I really like how tight my G5 Strykers group but I just don't like how far below my rest my nock point is to get them to group with my field points. Again thanks for the advice Todd. Good luck this weekend in La Grande.
Post by: Todd_ID on June 03, 2010, 08:37:50 AM
Post by: colockumelk on June 03, 2010, 09:13:08 PM
You mentioned that the Snuffer SS was too hard to sharpen. Why was that? Also how did they fly and did they penetrate well. I like the COC and looks of the Snuffer. So that is what I'll probably get. Any case what did you think of them other than the problems with sharpening them??
Post by: Todd_ID on June 04, 2010, 07:48:00 AM
Post by: colockumelk on June 04, 2010, 11:23:56 AM
Oh BTW I'm sorry I jacked this thread Todd. I didn't mean to get it off track.
Post by: Button Nubbs on June 04, 2010, 09:35:59 PM
I want to see if my spine is correct.
The bow is a 2O1O hoyt maxxis 35, at 65lbs 29" draw.
My arrows are carbon express maxima hunter 35O's cut at 28". 1OOgr tip, 3 blazers and a blazer wrap, bulldog nock collar and the standard inserts and nocks for them.
Thanks!
No problem. Here's what it says for your setup: 287 fps, 391 grain arrow, 11.5% FOC, 71.3 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop is 28", KE @ 50 is 60.5 @ 264 fps. The recommended spine shows .379", so your .337" Maxima's are a bit stiff but not so much so that you'd notice any difference by spending hundreds for new arrows just to get a little closer to the proper spine. You could go to a 125 grain head and get a recommended spine of .366", 281 fps, 416 grain arrow, 13.9% FOC, 73.2 ft-lbs KE, 29.3" drop, 62.1 ft-lbs KE @ 50 @ 259.4 fps.
You're in a good spot to be able to play around a bit with point weights and see which flys best. If you''ve already got everything you could possibly want and are happy with it, then I say don't monkey with a not broke system. The biggest advantage I see in your setup going from 100 grains to 125 grains is the gain in FOC; you'll see better broadhead flight the higher you get.
hey todd
125's have helped in tuning. thanks for the idea! if i was to up the poundage on my bow how high would i have to go to get my arrow as close to perfectly spined as possible? the reason i ask is because the broadheads i wanna shoot are very spine sensitive.
thanks!
Post by: Todd_ID on June 05, 2010, 08:31:09 AM
hey toddWith your setup you've most likely got 70# limbs turned down to 65#. I think a Hoyt maxxes out its limbs about 2# over, so that'd be 72#. And that would make the numbers with the 125 grain heads: 294 fps, 79.9 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine .342, and your's are .337. That's as close to perfect as you'll find. Also, maybe the broadheads you want have a 150 grain version? Increased FOC, closer to your proper spine, don't have to sacrifice turning your bow up to a point where you can't get it pulled back when the blood's pumping and the bull is screaming; win-win-win.
125's have helped in tuning. thanks for the idea! if i was to up the poundage on my bow how high would i have to go to get my arrow as close to perfectly spined as possible? the reason i ask is because the broadheads i wanna shoot are very spine sensitive.
thanks!
Post by: Button Nubbs on June 05, 2010, 11:01:38 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on June 09, 2010, 10:58:23 PM
Thanks again! Is that the archers advantage program?
No problem! I use OnTarget2 by Pinwheel Software, but Archer's Advantage will get you the same information.
Post by: flinger on June 11, 2010, 06:50:42 PM
125 g tips
3 2in blazer vanes
67lbs
29 in. draw
Hope this is enough
Thanks
Post by: Todd_ID on June 11, 2010, 07:41:48 PM
Post by: flinger on June 11, 2010, 08:19:20 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on June 11, 2010, 08:36:49 PM
Post by: flinger on June 12, 2010, 11:45:35 AM
2010 Z7
70Lbs
30 in draw
30 in ICS Hunter elite 340 3vein 4 in.
100 grn tip
thanks again todd
Post by: Todd_ID on June 12, 2010, 05:19:35 PM
how bout my buddysLooks like 304 fps, 456 grain arrow, 8.7% FOC, 93.8 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop 25.2", KE @ 50: 74 ft-lbs @ 270 fps, recommended spine of .308".
2010 Z7
70Lbs
30 in draw
30 in ICS Hunter elite 340 3vein 4 in.
100 grn tip
thanks again todd
I'd say he needs stiffer arrows if he's going to be shooting broadheads and wants them to fly consistently at all, and the 8% FOC is a bit light for most broadheads. When he gets new stuff because his isn't flying well, tell him to get the ICS Hunter Elite 300's at 30" with 125 grain broadheads. Then his numbers would be: 298 fps, 487 grain arrow, 10.8% FOC, 96.1 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 26.6", KE @ 50: 75.7 ft-lbs@ 265 fps., recommended spine of .298". All of those are better for hunting, and they should fly like darts.
Post by: bowhunterforever on August 14, 2010, 01:36:03 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on August 14, 2010, 09:03:53 AM
What can you tell me about my setup? 2010 matthews Z7, 29inch draw set at 70#, 29 inch Beman 340 ics hunters with 2 inch maxium vanes and 100 grain tips. ThanksNo problem. According to the program, you're right at the edge of legal with 6.067 gr/lb. Shows 300.8 fps, 424 grain arrow, 11.42% FOC, 85.3 ft-lbs KE at launch. Recommended spine is .314, so your .340's are weak, but may fly ok. 20-50 drop of 24.9", KE @ 50: 72.2 ft-lbs.
If you turn it down to 65# to get spine closer, then you'd get: easier draw with cold muscles, 291 fps, 6.5 gr/lb, 80.2 ft-lbs, recommended spine of .331", 20-50 drop of 26.9", KE @ 50: 68 ft-lbs.
To my way of thinking, there's simply not enough loss in any of the categories to not turn it down, and there are plenty of benefits: the second most important being much easier tuning when you get the proper spine, and the most important is not having to move bow a bit at an odd angle when drawing 10 yards from a monster bull. :twocents:
Post by: bowhunterforever on August 14, 2010, 10:42:47 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on August 15, 2010, 09:58:55 AM
What arrows should i be shooting beman ics 400?The 400's would be way too weak. Think of spine as the amount an arrow bends. They put the arrow on supports at the ends of the arrow then put a 2# weight in the middle and measure the amount it bends. One that bends .300" is called a 300 spine; one that bends more, say .400", is weaker and named a 400 spine. Make sure to ask before you buy, though, because each manufacturer uses different spine-naming conventions.
Lots of IFs in the answer to your question:
IF you want to keep the 70# draw weight
and
IF you are having poor arrow flight
and
IF you need more arrows
and/or
IF you WANT to spend some money on arrows
and
IF you want to stick with the Beman ICS Hunter arrows
then
Look for the ICS Hunter 300's; they'll be a .300" spine vs your .340" spine
also IF you go with the 300's, then you could go to a 125 grain head and be dead center perfect spine with a 29" arrow and get better weight, FOC, and penetration. Other .300" spine arrows would work fine, too; think Easton Axis or Beman MFX.
Next series:
If you are not stuck on the 70# draw weight
and
If you don't need more arrows
or
If you don't want to spend more money
then
Turn the bow down to 65#. That solves all your concerns without giving much up. Look again at the numbers between 65 and 70 pound draw weights above, and you'll find that not much is lost in energy, speed, or trajectory. Lots, however, is gained by having 5 less pounds to try and draw in the moment of truth.
My strong suggestion is to back both limb bolts out 2 turns and shoot what you have. You already have more than enough horsepower to blow through a cape buffalo, so dial it down to where it'll just blow through a polar bear.
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2010, 10:02:10 AM
Post by: MIKEXRAY on August 15, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
Post by: PolarBear on August 15, 2010, 10:35:13 AM
HEY NOW! Watch it with the shooting polar bear talk! :chuckle:What arrows should i be shooting beman ics 400?You already have more than enough horsepower to blow through a cape buffalo, so dial it down to where it'll just blow through a polar bear.
Post by: bowhunterforever on August 15, 2010, 01:37:44 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on August 15, 2010, 02:52:48 PM
Thanks for the help, i'll probably just turn it down to 65#. I was showing my buddy this topic and he was wondering if you could check his out too. 2007 elite synergy , 28 1/2 draw with smooth modules, set at70# with gold tip XT hunter 5575 cut 29 1/2 and 100grain tips.For your buddy: shows 5.5 gr/lb, so a bit under legal for hunting (but this is only for target, right?). 307 fps, 385 gr arrow, 12.26% FOC, 81 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 23.5", KE @ 50: 68.5 ft-lbs. Recommended spine is .301", so his .400" 5575's are way underspined :bdid: . Cutting them to 27" doesn't even come close (rec. spine of .328" with 70#), and a 27" arrow and 60# draw still needs .367" spine. Best recommendation is to go to 7595's (.340" spine) cut at 28.5" and 65# draw with the 100 grain heads. That'd be 294 fps, 6.28 gr/lb (now legal), 408 grain arrow, 10.2% FOC, 78.4 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 26.4", KE @ 50: 66.4 ft-lbs. Or he could cut the 7595's at 28" and use 125 grain heads to get to 12.6% FOC and a better flying arrow. :twocents:
Post by: Todd_ID on August 15, 2010, 02:58:25 PM
Arrows are getting expensive !
No doubt! I've bought the last several sets of arrows on classifieds just because of the price problem. I did pay full price for my target arrows, though. You've got to pay to play that game!
Post by: Hornseeker on August 16, 2010, 08:02:59 AM
My buddy is trying to get setup.... see if you have data for this outfit.
Its a Martin Magnum Panther (Maybe 10 yrs old???) set at 65# and 29". He's shooting a whisker biscuit... He is trying to shoot 7595's with a 250 grain point weight (175 grain Snuffers with 75 grain steel adaptors)... will these shafts work? Cut to what length?
Thanks, let me know if you need more info.
Post by: Gamblin Guy on August 16, 2010, 08:27:03 AM
I just found this thread, looks like a cool program. I had one called "TAP" several years ago but didn't keep up with all the upgrades. Can you give me the numbers on this set up?
2010 PSE Vendetta XS L6
65#'s at 29"
PSE Radial Crossweave STL 300's cut 29" 3 blazers and 100 grain tips.
Thanks Todd!
Post by: Todd_ID on August 17, 2010, 12:06:02 PM
Hey Todd,
My buddy is trying to get setup.... see if you have data for this outfit.
Its a Martin Magnum Panther (Maybe 10 yrs old???) set at 65# and 29". He's shooting a whisker biscuit... He is trying to shoot 7595's with a 250 grain point weight (175 grain Snuffers with 75 grain steel adaptors)... will these shafts work? Cut to what length?
Thanks, let me know if you need more info.
At 65# he needs a .300 spine arrow for any length. At 60#, he could get away with a 27" arrow (recommended spine of .329"). Basically not going to get a .340 spine to work great with a rest that allows that short of an arrow. You could try, though. Try cutting an old arrow at 27" and putting his head on and see if it hits the rest on the draw or if he can pull it off by overdrawing (like happens with a big bull in front of you) when excited.
60# and 27" is 229 fps, 22.5% FOC, 62.1 ft-lbs KE, 533 gr arrow.
Post by: Todd_ID on August 17, 2010, 12:12:44 PM
Hey Todd,No problem,
I just found this thread, looks like a cool program. I had one called "TAP" several years ago but didn't keep up with all the upgrades. Can you give me the numbers on this set up?
2010 PSE Vendetta XS L6
65#'s at 29"
PSE Radial Crossweave STL 300's cut 29" 3 blazers and 100 grain tips.
Thanks Todd!
Shows 289 fps, 389.4 gr arrow, 5.991 gr/lb, 11.79% FOC, 72.5 ft-lbs KE, recommended spine of .312", so your .359" 300's are a bit weak. 20-50 drop 27.4", KE @ 50: 61.5 ft-lbs. If you're having any issues with tuning, then I'd look close at arrow spine. If they're flying perfect, then make double sure to check them quite often to avoid a handful of carbon splinters.
Post by: Gamblin Guy on August 17, 2010, 01:34:24 PM
I thought they might be under a bit, i'll back off the poundage a little bit for him and then we'll get him some 340's next year. I'll probably replace the WB next spring too and go to a drop away. I can cut the 300's down and shoot them out of my old enforcer.
It's pretty cool for you to do this for everyone, thanks again.
Dan
Post by: doekillrssuck on August 17, 2010, 06:09:14 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on August 18, 2010, 03:14:55 PM
i have an elite e-500 set @ 58# 28in. draw muzzy 75gr. broadheads that actually weigh 81grains. carbon express maxima hunter 250's cut to 27 1/4'' long nap quick fletch vanes.. would like to know what you come up with thanks..Found a 2007 E-500 with smooth mods, hope that's it, otherwise it'll be darn close. Looks like 277 fps, 348 gr arrow, 8.9% FOC, 59.7 ft-lbs KE, 6.01 gr/lb, 20-50 drop: 30.7", KE @ 50: 49.6 ft-lbs. Recommended spine is .419", so your .417" 250's are perfect. The only reason you would have any trouble at all is the low FOC for Muzzy's. They have a reputation for poor flight, but if they're working for you, then stick with them. If flight is a problem at all, then try a 100 grain head; it only changes the recommended spine down to .406", so you'd still be fine with your arrows, but it takes your FOC to 11.1%, and that's a good thing for a tough-to-steer broadhead.
Post by: micahash1 on August 18, 2010, 03:22:15 PM
2008
Martin
Firecat
26"
60lbs
ARROW INFO
Maxima 250
25.5" shaft
2" Blazer Veins (3)
100G field points
100G 3 blade broadheads
Nock collar
Post by: Todd_ID on August 18, 2010, 03:32:23 PM
BOW INFO
2008
Martin
Firecat
26"
60lbs
ARROW INFO
Maxima 250
25.5" shaft
2" Blazer Veins (3)
100G field points
100G 3 blade broadheads
Nock collar
271 fps
345 grain arrow
12.6% FOC
5.76 gr/lb (oops! not quite legal)
56.6 ft-lbs KE
20-50 drop: 31.75"
KE @ 50: 48.6 ft-lbs
Recommended spine of .451"
Your spine: .417"
Post by: croix on August 18, 2010, 03:37:57 PM
'09 Hoyt AM32
~72 lbs (limbs are maxed)
28" draw
arrows are the 400 spine full metal jackets cut to 27.25"
100 gr. montec broadhead
4" vanes
thanks
Post by: Todd_ID on August 18, 2010, 04:26:10 PM
i'm having a hard time getting broadheads tuned and think i may be at the edge of my recommended spine.Your recommended spine is .328", so your 400's are weak, like you thought. Drop to 60#, and the recommended spine is .377", so the 400's would be a lot closer. Maybe borrow a buddy's 340's to try for a while to decide if you want to go to them or drop the poundage.
'09 Hoyt AM32
~72 lbs (limbs are maxed)
28" draw
arrows are the 400 spine full metal jackets cut to 27.25"
100 gr. montec broadhead
4" vanes
thanks
Post by: croix on August 19, 2010, 06:38:57 AM
i'm having a hard time getting broadheads tuned and think i may be at the edge of my recommended spine.Your recommended spine is .328", so your 400's are weak, like you thought. Drop to 60#, and the recommended spine is .377", so the 400's would be a lot closer. Maybe borrow a buddy's 340's to try for a while to decide if you want to go to them or drop the poundage.
'09 Hoyt AM32
~72 lbs (limbs are maxed)
28" draw
arrows are the 400 spine full metal jackets cut to 27.25"
100 gr. montec broadhead
4" vanes
thanks
wow! i would have never guessed something so stiff as a .328 until i was drawing more like 80 #. i guess that just illustrates how much fudge factor is in the easton charts. good to know.
what if i went to an 85 grn broadhead? does that get me close to the .400 spines that i have?
Post by: doekillrssuck on August 19, 2010, 11:21:03 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on August 19, 2010, 02:52:38 PM
That gets you to a recommended spine of .338". Try going to 65# and trying that. The recommended spine then is .353", so that's closer. Find a happy medium between my program and the Easton charts, and you should be fine.i'm having a hard time getting broadheads tuned and think i may be at the edge of my recommended spine.Your recommended spine is .328", so your 400's are weak, like you thought. Drop to 60#, and the recommended spine is .377", so the 400's would be a lot closer. Maybe borrow a buddy's 340's to try for a while to decide if you want to go to them or drop the poundage.
'09 Hoyt AM32
~72 lbs (limbs are maxed)
28" draw
arrows are the 400 spine full metal jackets cut to 27.25"
100 gr. montec broadhead
4" vanes
thanks
wow! i would have never guessed something so stiff as a .328 until i was drawing more like 80 #. i guess that just illustrates how much fudge factor is in the easton charts. good to know.
what if i went to an 85 grn broadhead? does that get me close to the .400 spines that i have?
Post by: mallard79 on August 20, 2010, 01:54:40 PM
What can you tell me about my set ups?
2008 Diamond Rock, 70#, 29" draw, 29 1/2" (340 spined) Cabelas Stalker Extremes with 3 blazer vanes, 100 grain 3 blade Muzzy's
Not sure of the year....PSE Nova, 60#, 28 1/2" draw, 29 1/2" Gold Tip Pro Hunter 5575's with 4" vanes, 100 grain 3 blade Muzzy's
Also if you could run the number for both bows at 5# less (65 and 55) draw weight I would appreciate it.
Thanks again for what you are doing!! :brew: I owe you one
Post by: Todd_ID on August 21, 2010, 11:34:04 AM
This is an awesome thing you are doing Todd.No problem.
What can you tell me about my set ups?
2008 Diamond Rock, 70#, 29" draw, 29 1/2" (340 spined) Cabelas Stalker Extremes with 3 blazer vanes, 100 grain 3 blade Muzzy's
Not sure of the year....PSE Nova, 60#, 28 1/2" draw, 29 1/2" Gold Tip Pro Hunter 5575's with 4" vanes, 100 grain 3 blade Muzzy's
Also if you could run the number for both bows at 5# less (65 and 55) draw weight I would appreciate it.
Thanks again for what you are doing!! :brew: I owe you one
For the Diamond at 70#: I guessed that you're using the 65/80 arrows (they're .320" spined). It shows a recommended spine of .321", 284 fps, 405 gr arrow, 5.79 gr/lb (oops!), 12.1% FOC, 72.9 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 28.5", KE @ 50: 62 ft-lbs. 125 grain head would be fine: recommended spine of .310" and would be 6.15 gr/lb.
Diamond @ 65#: 275 fps, 6.24 gr/lb, 68.4 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop 30.8", KE @ 50 58.2 ft-lbs, recommended spine of .337". I like this better than buying new broadheads!
PSE @ 60: 230 fps, 406 gr arrow, 9.25% FOC, 6.8 gr/lb, 47.8 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 48.7", KE @ 50: 37.9 ft-lbs, rec. spine of .440" (those are .400" spine arrows), so not bad at all.
PSE @ 55: 221 fps, 7.4 gr/lb, 44.1 ft-lbs KE, 53.2" drop, 35 ft-lbs @ 50, rec. spine of .473".
Post by: mallard79 on August 21, 2010, 04:38:04 PM
I am new to bow hunting, but when I calculated my arrow weight I came up with 423.35 grains. Am I wrong in adding the weight of the nock, insert, and vanes to the total arrow weight? I used 9.3gpi, 5 grains per vane, 21 grains for the insert and 13 grains for the nock(taken from the Cabelas description on their customer review page). I want to make sure I am doing my math correctly in the future.
If you wouldn't mind, could you tell me what dropping to an 85 grain broadhead with the PSE would do to it's numbers?
Thanks again!
Post by: Todd_ID on August 21, 2010, 07:50:51 PM
The program shows the Stalker Extremes at 8.7 gpi, so there's the difference. Your numbers are right as they are 9.3 gpi, so you'll be a little slower (maybe 5 fps), a little less FOC (very little), grains per inch legal.
Post by: mallard79 on August 21, 2010, 09:55:22 PM
Going lighter on broadheads for the PSE makes for a 7.7% FOC, and that's almost impossible to get to fly well. I'd stick with the 100's.
The program shows the Stalker Extremes at 8.7 gpi, so there's the difference. Your numbers are right as they are 9.3 gpi, so you'll be a little slower (maybe 5 fps), a little less FOC (very little), grains per inch legal.
That is what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure. I will stick with the 100's in the PSE. I am going to try both 100 and 125's from the Diamond this week and go with whatever fly's best.
Thanks for all the help!
Post by: et1702 on August 30, 2010, 01:14:25 PM
I have a 2007 Hoyt Trycon XL, 76lbs, 31-inch draw, 75/95 Gold Tip XT Hunters, Magnus Buzzcut 4-blades 125gr, 29-inch shaft length, HP vanes (three per shaft), string loop w/Cater release.
Post by: Todd_ID on August 30, 2010, 03:14:18 PM
Hi Todd,It shows 308fps, 426 gr arrow, 5.9 gr/in (oops), 13.7% FOC, 89.9 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 23.4", KE @ 50: 76.4 ft-lbs, recommended spine of .295", so your .340" Gold Tips are pretty weak. Drop it to 65#, and it's still weak with a recommended spine of .315", but not quite so bad. Plus, you'd be legal with 6.5 gr/lb and still getting 295 fps and 82.7 ft-lbs KE. Better all the way around: :twocents:
I have a 2007 Hoyt Trycon XL, 76lbs, 31-inch draw, 75/95 Gold Tip XT Hunters, Magnus Buzzcut 4-blades 125gr, 29-inch shaft length, HP vanes (three per shaft), string loop w/Cater release.
Post by: et1702 on August 30, 2010, 04:48:22 PM
Do Carbon Express Maxima Hunters change the equation much? I think they are the same gr/in of shaft. But, are they a stiffer spine? I'd rather not go below 70lbs if I can help it (i.e., 426gr/70lb = 6.08gr/lb).
Thanks,
ET
Post by: Todd_ID on August 30, 2010, 07:27:55 PM
Yikes, I just switched to the 8.9gr/in shafts and didn't do the math. At 426gr total weight, I get 5.6gr, not 5.9. legal is 6.0gr/lb...right?Shows the CE Maxima Hunter 450's at .298" spine, so that'd be pretty much perfect to leave your setup the way it is. That's a 450 grain arrow with your 125's. The gr/lb on your current setup is 426/72=5.9. Maybe my grains are off on the program, but probably not more than a couple. My opinion is it's not worth the $120 for another dozen arrows when all you need to do is turn the bow down some, but that's just me. Most guys are pulling about 10# too much weight, so it's generally a safe recommendation. If you can sit in a chair, lift your legs off the floor, and draw the bow straight out in front of you with no more movement than you want to have with a whitetail looking at you, then your draw weight is ok. Most can't pass this test.... Your bow has a ton of energy stored in it that you can afford to draw lesser draw weights and still blow through a cape buffalo.
Do Carbon Express Maxima Hunters change the equation much? I think they are the same gr/in of shaft. But, are they a stiffer spine? I'd rather not go below 70lbs if I can help it (i.e., 426gr/70lb = 6.08gr/lb).
Thanks,
ET
Post by: et1702 on August 30, 2010, 08:02:20 PM
There aren't many arrows out there with a spine at around .300 or stiffer. I found some Beeman ICS hunters at 9.5gpi with .300 spine. Otherwise its the Maxima 450's, CE Pile drivers (too heavy), or Gold Tip Big Game Hunters. FYI, I know what you mean about too much draw weight. My buddy sat on his stand for two to 3 hours in below freezing temps and when a 150 class whitetail stepped out in front of him he couldn't pull his bow back to save his life! My bow is 70 to 80lb range. Most compounds are more efficient closer to the top of their range, and I don't have any problems pulling back after sitting three hours in below freezing temps. So, I'd rather use the right spine arrows for the job (and ones that are legal). Regarding KE of this bow, I love it! The last few elk, deer, and bears have all been complete pass thru's! In fact, none of them went more than 30 yards. The last elk I shot took four or five steps, stood there a moment and then fell over in his tracks. I think KE is more important than speed. Just like torque is really what gets your truck, or race car moving! However, since it's one week from opening morning for ELK, I may just turn her down to 70lbs so I'm legal. BTW, although spine is marginal. I tune my bow thru paper every year, and these shafts w/ broadheads are hitting the same point of impact as my field points.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 30, 2010, 08:23:51 PM
et1702 you might look at the easton fmj's they should get you to the weight of arrow you need and you can keep that ke up and the arch down :IBCOOL:
Post by: et1702 on August 30, 2010, 09:47:05 PM
I did shoot 84lbs...with only 35% let-off. Remember the Golden Eagle bows??? I shot that thing from 1986 thru 2006. Now I'm dating myself. But, I did start bow hunting at 15 years old with an old Darton over 31 years ago. BTW, if I crank my Hoyt all the way down, she will go over 80#. But, I already start my sight pins at 30yrds (i.e., no 20yrd pin), and can shoot very tight groups all the way out to 60yrds. But, everything I've shot over the years has been 30yrds or less.
Also, thanks for the suggestion. I'll look at the FMJ's
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 30, 2010, 09:54:30 PM
Post by: engelwood on September 02, 2010, 09:44:44 AM
60-70# PSE X-Force Dream Season (7 inch brace height). Shooting 70# draw weight, 29" draw. Currently shooting 30" Easton Axis 340's with 100gr. Montec G5's. Fletchings are blazer veins. Thanks man!
Mike
Post by: Todd_ID on September 04, 2010, 08:37:20 AM
Todd, it is awesome of you to tell everyone what they got going on. Is the offer still good? Here is what I got.Hunting season, sorry it took a while to get back to you.
60-70# PSE X-Force Dream Season (7 inch brace height). Shooting 70# draw weight, 29" draw. Currently shooting 30" Easton Axis 340's with 100gr. Montec G5's. Fletchings are blazer veins. Thanks man!
Mike
Your setup shows: 303 fps, 425 gr arrow, 11.7% FOC, 6.07 gr/lb, 86.4 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 24.5", KE @ 50: 73.7 ft-lbs. Recommended spine of .303".
Post by: Hornseeker on September 17, 2010, 08:41:20 AM
Nuther buddy needs some help here. He is shooting a Guardian, 60# @27"...off a bodoodle rest I believe... hopefully not too important... wants to shoot 125 heads... what spine/length of arrow? He is shooting some skinny Carbon express 250's right now and is getting great field tip flight but horrible magnus stinger flight....
Ernie
Post by: Todd_ID on October 03, 2010, 09:39:52 AM
Todd,Ernie,
Nuther buddy needs some help here. He is shooting a Guardian, 60# @27"...off a bodoodle rest I believe... hopefully not too important... wants to shoot 125 heads... what spine/length of arrow? He is shooting some skinny Carbon express 250's right now and is getting great field tip flight but horrible magnus stinger flight....
Ernie
It looks like a 27" arrow length is recommending a .383" spine for 125 grain heads and .398" for 100 grain heads. Most likely those Carbon Express's are .417" spine. Therein lies the problem, me thinks. Try finding a .340 spine laying around and have him shoot that a while to see how it works.
Post by: Klyne3 on November 15, 2010, 08:42:05 PM
If the offer is still available I would love the help. Just getting back in to Archery and got my early Christmas gift. I have a 2010 Diamond Razor Edge. 26" Draw @ 40 lbs with D loop for the moment, working my way upwards. For target I am using 27" Carbon Express Thunderstorm Predator Vanes (3) weight is 8.3 and spline is .499 with a 100 grain tip and standard nock. I will be looking to pick up some broadheads soon to switch it up some. Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Post by: BushMonster on November 16, 2010, 10:25:41 AM
2010 Quest Hammer, 28" draw @ 62 lbs. Current arrows are Gold Tip Expeditions 7595 29.5" with 100grn field points. For broadheads, have G5 Montecs 100grn.
Thanks for the help
Post by: Todd_ID on November 25, 2010, 11:01:11 AM
Todd,Sorry about the delay...didn't see your post.
If the offer is still available I would love the help. Just getting back in to Archery and got my early Christmas gift. I have a 2010 Diamond Razor Edge. 26" Draw @ 40 lbs with D loop for the moment, working my way upwards. For target I am using 27" Carbon Express Thunderstorm Predator Vanes (3) weight is 8.3 and spline is .499 with a 100 grain tip and standard nock. I will be looking to pick up some broadheads soon to switch it up some. Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Your setup looks fine, although the arrow is plenty stiff. It shows a recommended spine of .651", so your .499" ones will be good up to about 55# draw weight with the 100 grain heads (that sounds like what your "working my way upwards" meant). It shows now 205 fps, 363 gr arrow, 12.3% FOC, 34.1 ft-lbs KE, 9 gr/lb draw weight. Nothing wrong with any of those numbers. As for broadheads, stay away from the chisel point style as you don't carry enough momentum to bust through bone; you'll want to go with a cut on contact head, and I'd stick with a good 2 blade instead of a 3 or 4 blade. A good choice would be a 2 blade Magnus Stinger: it'll do the job and give you a lifetime warranty.
Post by: Todd_ID on November 25, 2010, 11:31:12 AM
Todd- Also wanted to see best arrow for my setup. Thinking of moving to GoldTip XT Hunter or something similar, good deals on GoldTip Trophy Hunter HPs, but not sure on those as look to be old stock.
2010 Quest Hammer, 28" draw @ 62 lbs. Current arrows are Gold Tip Expeditions 7595 29.5" with 100grn field points. For broadheads, have G5 Montecs 100grn.
Thanks for the help
Your setup looks to be a recommended spine of .402", so anything in Gold Tip's line that is labeled as 55-70 should be a .400 spine; stick with the expensive end of Gold Tip's stuff, though, because you get what you pay for in arrows, and the bottom end (XT Hunters) are tough to get to fly right since they moved production to Mexico. Your 7595's are .340" spine, so they're stiff for your setup.
Your current setup: 261 fps, 402 grains, 11.7% FOC, 6.5 gr/lb, 60.7 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop of 35.1", KE @ 50 of 51.6 ft-lbs.
Switch to XT Hunter 5570 and you'd get: 265 fps, 382 grains, 12.3%, 6.1 gr/lb, 59.6 KE, 20-50 drop 33.8", KE @ 50 of 50.6.
If you've got lots of the Expedition 7595 now, then another option is to go with a heavier head: lots of benefits there. A 150 grain head on those would be: 250 fps, 452 grains, 15.8% FOC, 7.3 gr/lb, 63 ft-lbs KE, 20-50 drop 38.6", KE at 50 of 53.5.