An offer to help

[Todd_ID]

Colockumelk:  My recommendation is to use what you've got unless either you are having poor broadhead flight or love spending money.  If flight issues are there, then maybe try turning your bow down one full turn on each limb bolt and see how that works; if it gets better but not great, then try another full turn.  Going to 100 grain heads with the Epics you have would also help, but that means spending money and giving up weight.  If you simply want to switch arrows and broadheads, then the ST Axis 340 and 100 grain heads looks pretty good, but it's about the same as what you've got just with a different head weight.

Bottom line: your stuff now will go through elk no problem without spending money.  Turning the bow dow to fix flight problems is free, and you don't lose very much in doing so.

[Todd_ID]

I'll take what info you can give.

Bow~ Martin, Magnum "Phantom" 2002 +/-
Draw~ 29"
Weight~ 55-70 set @ #63
Arrow~ Gold Tip, Pro Hunter 5575 w/ standard nock/inserts & 5" arrow wrap
Vanes~ FOB
Broadhead~ 100gr. 3 blade Slick Trick Magnum

Shoot a release w/ string loop & fall away rest. I'm shooting out to 70 yards.

Didn't see an arrow length there, so I'll give you the numbers at 29" arrows.  Looks like your setup (with a 29" arrow) has a recommended spine of .372, and your 5575's are .400, so you're a bit weak, but I don't see it being a problem (Slick Tricks are great at hiding form and spine errors).  The numbers: 273 fps, 396 grain arrow weight, 10.3% FOC, 65 ft-lbs KE.

Arrow drop 20-50: 30.3", KE @ 50: 60 ft-lbs

12" hit window yardage range with:
30 pin: 6-37 yds
40 pin: 31-45 yds
50 pin: 45-54 yds
60 pin: 56-63 yds
70 pin: 67-73 yds

I don't see any major problems there.  If your arrows are longer than the 29" guess, then you might be in the neighborhood of spine too weak.

[Hornseeker]

Sweet...thanks man!!

[Gobble Gobble]

Todd

Thanks for the info and Yes, I am shoot a 29" arrow. Good to know about being under spined, would explain flight issues last year shooting 125gr BH's. Thought shooting FOB's might throw you program off as a lot of people don't know what they are.

Depending on weather conditions and how many rounds shot I'm grouping 6-18" at 70 yards for 5 arrows since changing to 100gr BH and FOB's.

[colockumelk]

Colockumelk:  My recommendation is to use what you've got unless either you are having poor broadhead flight or love spending money.  If flight issues are there, then maybe try turning your bow down one full turn on each limb bolt and see how that works; if it gets better but not great, then try another full turn.  Going to 100 grain heads with the Epics you have would also help, but that means spending money and giving up weight.  If you simply want to switch arrows and broadheads, then the ST Axis 340 and 100 grain heads looks pretty good, but it's about the same as what you've got just with a different head weight.

Bottom line: your stuff now will go through elk no problem without spending money.  Turning the bow dow to fix flight problems is free, and you don't lose very much in doing so.

I don't mind spending the money to get the best setup possible.  If I switched to a ST Epic 300 and kept the 125 grain head would that give me a better FOC, a proper spine and also more KE?  Thanks again.  This will be the first season that I will have 100% confidence in my stuff because of you.

Here's my dope again.
2009 Hoyt Alpha Max 32
28" Draw Length
70# Pull
Easton Epic Black 300's (10.00 GPI)
Cut Length 27.5"
2" Blazers.
3 Fletches
125 Grain BH
3 Blades
Peep Sight (without the bungee chord)
D-Loop
QAD Ultra Rest

[Todd_ID]

Colockumelk:
Really I don't see any big benefit in switching to the .300 spine Epics with 125 grain heads.  The numbers for your setup with the 300s are: 276 fps, 442 grains, 14.4% FOC, 75.2 ft-lbs KE.  Arrow Drop 20-50, 30.5", 63.9 ft-lbs KE @ 50.  That isn't a big enough gain to warrant the expense of new arrows, in my book. 

Here're the numbers that it gives for your setup if you turn each limb bolt down 1 turn (to 67# draw weight) with your 340s and 125 grain heads: Recommended spine of .330, 274 fps, 14.9% FOC, 71.5 ft-lbs KE, 428 grain arrow.  Arrow drop 20-50: 31.2", KE @ 50: 60.8 ft-lbs.  That one turn is free, and it could be the answer you're looking for; giving up 2.4 ft-lbs KE at 50 yards is nothing when your bow starts out with so much.

Again, I don't want to advocate any changes if your arrows are flying well with broadheads.  Your setup is just one of those that's on the borderline for POSSIBLE flight problems not PROBABLE.  This software is a starting point, but it is not the final say in what works or doesn't.  Remember that the software assumes that the bow is well tuned and that the broadheads spin true with the shafts; either of these places could be good starting points in a quest for better grouping.  My guess in your case is that your continued practice in the off season will do more than any amount of money that you could throw at equipment.  If practice alone doesn't lead to good broadhead grouping, then try taking one turn off the limb bolts.  If that still doesn't help, then maybe try a different style of broadhead (think Slick Trick or Shuttle T) that are designed to fly exceptionally well.  Your 340s aren't far enough underspined to cause many problems, in my opinion.

Remember, confidence comes from having average equipment that you are well practiced with not from perfect equipment alone!

[colockumelk]

Thank you for all of the help.  I'll go with your recommendation and go down to 67#.  I have one quick question.  What is the range that I want my FOC to be?

[Todd_ID]

Thank you for all of the help.  I'll go with your recommendation and go down to 67#.  I have one quick question.  What is the range that I want my FOC to be?

FOC ranges depend on many things: form, hand torque, bow tuning, etc.  The normal recommended for broadheads to fly well is 12-15%.  For target only many like to get down to 8-10% to get the flatter trajectory.  Basically the more FOC you have on your arrow, then the more leverage the fletching has available for steering.  Get to an extreme FOC, say 19%+, and you start seeing penetration benefits through bone because the concentration of mass up front is pulling the arrow through the animal instead of the weight of the arrow pushing it.

[colockumelk]

You should probably write a book.  Again thanks for the help. 

[jackelope]

You should probably write a book.  Again thanks for the help. 

you should see him in person...
 

[Emptyhanded]

Hey Todd i was wondering if you could run my set up again with 27" arrows? I need to know if i need 400 spine or 340. Thanks!
My set up:
2006 Martin Jaguar
29 inch draw
27 inch arrow
60#
I am currently shooting some cheap Satellite arrows so i don't know the spine or gpi, but i would like to know what spine i need when I buy new arrows. I will probably buy Beman ICS Bowhunters or Cabelas Stalker extremes ( not sure if you need this info or not).
Thanks again, I appreciate it.

[Todd_ID]

You should probably write a book.  Again thanks for the help. 

you should see him in person...
 

Certainly a face fit for radio!

[Todd_ID]

Hey Todd i was wondering if you could run my set up again with 27" arrows? I need to know if i need 400 spine or 340. Thanks!
My set up:
2006 Martin Jaguar
29 inch draw
27 inch arrow
60#
I am currently shooting some cheap Satellite arrows so i don't know the spine or gpi, but i would like to know what spine i need when I buy new arrows. I will probably buy Beman ICS Bowhunters or Cabelas Stalker extremes ( not sure if you need this info or not).
Thanks again, I appreciate it.

Looks like a 27" arrow with your 125 grain heads needs a .370 spine.  Cabelas Stalker Extreme 55/75 are .390, so that should work.  I'd rather suggest someone go stiffer on the spine though, and the Beman ICS Bowhunter 340s would fit that bill.  The Beman 340s would be a 425 grain arrow, and the Cabelas 5575s would be a 387 grain arrow; Beman 340s win again.  The Stalker Extreme 65/80s are a .320 spine, and that's a bit much for what you need, puls they'd only end up being a 408 grain arrow. 

The numbers for the 27" ICS Bowhunter 340s and 125 grain heads: 267 fps, 14.8% FOC, 67.7 ft-lbs KE, Arrow Drop 20-50: 33", KE @ 50: 64 ft-lbs.

Should you elect to go with the 5575 Stalker Extremes, then the numbers are: 275 fps, 16.1% FOC, 65.2 ft-lbs KE, Arrow Drop 20-50: 30.8", KE @ 50: 55.6 ft-lbs.

You're probably not going to shoot 50 yards without using a rangefinder or having the ability to judge accuartely, so I don't think the 3" difference in drop is a problem, and you'd be gaining 14% more KE at 50 with the heavier Bemans.

[Emptyhanded]

Ok. Thanks a lot Todd!

[colockumelk]

Could you give me some advice for my wifes bow.  Here's her setup.  I'm wondering what would be better.  If she had an 85grain head and a 100grain head.  Again I'm more concerned with KE, proper spine and FOC than with speed.  Thanks again.

2009 Hoyt Kobalt
IBO:  290FPS @60lb
27" Draw Length
45lb Draw
Easton Epic Black 500's (7.3gpi)
Cut 26.5"
2" blazers
3 fletchings
100grain or 85grain broad head.
3 bladed broad head
Peep sight (without bungee chord)
D-Loop
Whisker Bisquit Rest.

Again thank you so much for you time and efforts Todd.  I'll be in the south so I can't offer you any good hunts other than hogs.  But you're welcome anytime.