Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 10:06:50 PM
Post by: Guano on November 23, 2010, 10:16:48 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 10:19:14 PM
Post by: Guano on November 23, 2010, 10:27:55 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 10:30:33 PM
Ill call you friday to help me drag one out...might be a couple inches shy???? Going up to do one last check tomorrow!That would be awesome brother...as long as I am the first to get the story ;)
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 10:35:49 PM
Ill call you friday to help me drag one out...might be a couple inches shy???? Going up to do one last check tomorrow!
Those genetics were roughly 18 miles as the crow flies from your sets. I am sure they could spread that far in nearly two decades.
Post by: jnevs23 on November 23, 2010, 10:42:17 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 10:48:34 PM
The buck was taken in Stevens County.
Northwest Big Game Inc. puts out a record book that focuses on the NW and B&C has an outstanding online database with many filters so you can find exactly what you want (of course it cost $$$.. I think 50-60 bucks per year last time I purchased it)
Post by: bobcat on November 23, 2010, 10:49:58 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 11:00:09 PM
Thanks for posting that. I'll have to see if Cabelas has North American Whitetail on the shelf.
The Cabelas in Post Falls, ID carries North American Whitetail. I am not sure if all of them do.
Post by: bobcat on November 23, 2010, 11:01:16 PM
Post by: huntnnw on November 23, 2010, 11:22:10 PM
Post by: Guano on November 23, 2010, 11:23:03 PM
Ill call you friday to help me drag one out...might be a couple inches shy???? Going up to do one last check tomorrow!
Those genetics were roughly 18 miles as the crow flies from your sets. I am sure they could spread that far in nearly two decades.
I just hope the local residents are still around and moving by the time I get in the stand...ill call when im driving back tomorrow from pulling cards. Work on thursday, then Chris and I heading up Friday. Give me a heads up what your going to do...
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 11:23:44 PM
if I remember, it was taken outside of elk, blanchard areaNear Hunters.
Post by: bow4elk on November 23, 2010, 11:24:23 PM
Post by: huntnnw on November 23, 2010, 11:25:08 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 11:27:10 PM
Ill call you friday to help me drag one out...might be a couple inches shy???? Going up to do one last check tomorrow!
Those genetics were roughly 18 miles as the crow flies from your sets. I am sure they could spread that far in nearly two decades.
I just hope the local residents are still around and moving by the time I get in the stand...ill call when im driving back tomorrow from pulling cards. Work on thursday, then Chris and I heading up Friday. Give me a heads up what your going to do...
I look forward to hearing what you find on camera. I think the bucks will keep moving. I will be checking cameras one last time tomorrow too. I plan to hunt Thursday - Tuesday.
Post by: huntnnw on November 23, 2010, 11:29:05 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 23, 2010, 11:33:46 PM
Man the deer in 127 today were moving mid day, saw 6 bucks just driving to and from standWhen will you be able to hunt?
Post by: huntnnw on November 23, 2010, 11:40:46 PM
Post by: jnevs23 on November 23, 2010, 11:54:57 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on November 24, 2010, 12:54:18 AM
:chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on November 24, 2010, 12:55:07 AM
Post by: bearpaw on November 24, 2010, 12:56:07 AM
FYI - The reason this story did not really get out is because the main beam was broken on one side, so it could not be entered in the B&C. Sad that a deer of such caliber did not get his due, he has truly an amazingly beautiful buck.... :twocents:
If I remember correctly he grossed over 208...
Post by: gravestaxidermy on November 24, 2010, 01:01:19 AM
Post by: bearpaw on November 24, 2010, 01:19:23 AM
I remember when Adams killed the two big bulls back to back in MT, lots of people were convinced he was breaking the law, but everything I have heard locally in Montana indicates he was completely legal and too many people are just jealous.
Post by: agchawk on November 24, 2010, 01:27:01 AM
I'll have to head to WalMart and see if I can get a copy.
Post by: 400out on November 24, 2010, 06:57:08 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 07:42:13 AM
FYI - The reason this story did not really get out is because the main beam was broken on one side, so it could not be entered in the B&C. Sad that a deer of such caliber did not get his due, he has truly an amazingly beautiful buck.... :twocents:
The buck finally got his due. You are correct his mainbeam was broken. B&C changed their rules over the years and now they except trophies with damaged material as long as no additional material that doesn't belong to the animal is present. This buck was entered into B&C this past year. I was scored and examined by their Director of Big Game Records.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 07:47:39 AM
FYI - The reason this story did not really get out is because the main beam was broken on one side, so it could not be entered in the B&C. Sad that a deer of such caliber did not get his due, he has truly an amazingly beautiful buck.... :twocents:
If I remember correctly he grossed over 208...
Correct again. Originally he was picked up by Northwest Big Game as the WA state record. I think at the time they had him at 198 and something/8 net. I can't remember what they had him for gross. B&C scored him at 215 gross typical and 224 4/8 gross non-typical.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 07:52:51 AM
As wth every big buck there is controversy. Cartwright told me the buck was running and toppled, breaking the antler in the fall. I have heard other people say that he accidentally hit it at night on the highway or that he poached it, and even that someone else poached it. But until I see some kind of proof, I am going to believe Cartright. I had the mount hanging in my house for 6 months and never noticed any marks or indication that the rack had any contact with a car. Other than the break which was still obvious, I saw no noticeable marks indicating it had been hit by a car. When some reliable evidence surfaces, then I will beleive the other stories, until then I think it is unfair to say the buck was poached or that Cartwright didn't take it as he said. I want to hope the buck was taken legally.
I remember when Adams killed the two big bulls back to back in MT, lots of people were convinced he was breaking the law, but everything I have heard locally in Montana indicates he was completely legal and too many people are just jealous.
Dale,
You are absolutely 100% right again. Controversy always surrounds big animals. The rack was also examined by one of the head scorers at B&C. I spoke with Mr. Carwright at length and I see no reason to doubt his story. It is unfortunate that such rumors nearly always surround bucks of a lifetime. I have heard from some hunters that it ruins the entire experience. There are cases were people have experienced full investigations only to be found not guilty.
Post by: bearpaw on November 24, 2010, 01:53:46 PM
Just look at the comments that hit this forum regarding many big animal photos that are posted.
On Another Note:
I am of the opinion that when it is determined an animal was poached, it should remain in the books but listed as poached, without the poachers name. Records should show all the big animals and area they came from, don't let the animal be lost from history because some jerk poached it. The animal and the geographic area deserve to be recognized. :twocents:
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on November 24, 2010, 01:58:04 PM
As wth every big buck there is controversy. Cartwright told me the buck was running and toppled, breaking the antler in the fall. I have heard other people say that he accidentally hit it at night on the highway or that he poached it, and even that someone else poached it. But until I see some kind of proof, I am going to believe Cartright. I had the mount hanging in my house for 6 months and never noticed any marks or indication that the rack had any contact with a car. Other than the break which was still obvious, I saw no noticeable marks indicating it had been hit by a car. When some reliable evidence surfaces, then I will beleive the other stories, until then I think it is unfair to say the buck was poached or that Cartwright didn't take it as he said. I want to hope the buck was taken legally.
I remember when Adams killed the two big bulls back to back in MT, lots of people were convinced he was breaking the law, but everything I have heard locally in Montana indicates he was completely legal and too many people are just jealous.
Dale,
You are absolutely 100% right again. Controversy always surrounds big animals. The rack was also examined by one of the head scorers at B&C. I spoke with Mr. Carwright at length and I see no reason to doubt his story. It is unfortunate that such rumors nearly always surround bucks of a lifetime. I have heard from some hunters that it ruins the entire experience. There are cases were people have experienced full investigations only to be found not guilty.
There was a story a few years ago where awhere a guy had his deer stolen by the game dept. Many slanderous stories later and around 2 years later, he got his buck back (minus the cape).
Forget the magazine I saw the story in. Seems like it ran in two or three....
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 05:13:00 PM
I'm not sure that it"s always bad intentions that causes these rumours. I think one guy may say something like "He must have shot it at night" then the next guys says " I was told he shot it at night", the next guys says "Everyone knows he shot it at night". No one had bad intentions, but the suspicious nature of people mixed with possibly a little jealousy has a way of developing ficticious stories from out of nowhere.
Just look at the comments that hit this forum regarding many big animal photos that are posted.
On Another Note:
I am of the opinion that when it is determined an animal was poached, it should remain in the books but listed as poached, without the poachers name. Records should show all the big animals and area they came from, don't let the animal be lost from history because some jerk poached it. The animal and the geographic area deserve to be recognized. :twocents:
I agree on all counts.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 05:13:51 PM
As wth every big buck there is controversy. Cartwright told me the buck was running and toppled, breaking the antler in the fall. I have heard other people say that he accidentally hit it at night on the highway or that he poached it, and even that someone else poached it. But until I see some kind of proof, I am going to believe Cartright. I had the mount hanging in my house for 6 months and never noticed any marks or indication that the rack had any contact with a car. Other than the break which was still obvious, I saw no noticeable marks indicating it had been hit by a car. When some reliable evidence surfaces, then I will beleive the other stories, until then I think it is unfair to say the buck was poached or that Cartwright didn't take it as he said. I want to hope the buck was taken legally.
I remember when Adams killed the two big bulls back to back in MT, lots of people were convinced he was breaking the law, but everything I have heard locally in Montana indicates he was completely legal and too many people are just jealous.
Dale,
You are absolutely 100% right again. Controversy always surrounds big animals. The rack was also examined by one of the head scorers at B&C. I spoke with Mr. Carwright at length and I see no reason to doubt his story. It is unfortunate that such rumors nearly always surround bucks of a lifetime. I have heard from some hunters that it ruins the entire experience. There are cases were people have experienced full investigations only to be found not guilty.
There was a story a few years ago where awhere a guy had his deer stolen by the game dept. Many slanderous stories later and around 2 years later, he got his buck back (minus the cape).
Forget the magazine I saw the story in. Seems like it ran in two or three....
I read about a story like this in one of the whitetail magazines but I can't remember which one and not sure if it is the same story.
Post by: C-Money on November 24, 2010, 05:24:54 PM
Post by: Elkslayer on November 24, 2010, 07:04:45 PM
Here is a picture of the Sheds!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy204%2FElkslayer%2Fsheds+2008%2Fcartwright003.jpg&hash=7b934c8274d7585433906d9b97d20d6520e72f9c)
Post by: BAR C3 on November 24, 2010, 08:41:11 PM
Stevens County holds some serious genetics! Some of the biggest sheds we have found have come from that county.
Matter of fact, much larger then the ones being held up! :drool:
Post by: gravestaxidermy on November 24, 2010, 08:44:46 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 09:01:17 PM
Could careless about the real story but I'am curious how this buck was killed in September of 09 and is already been scored by B&C, mounted, and on the circuit?
Stevens County holds some serious genetics! Some of the biggest sheds we have found have come from that county.
Matter of fact, much larger then the ones being held up! :drool:
This buck was taken in 1992.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 09:02:14 PM
Not saying that it was really poached but just a story I heard. You guys are right that no matter what big animal gets shot that there always seems to be things said about it. This is a huge buck and it is a shame that it can't be in the b&c book.
It is in the B&C record book. B&C changed their rules over time and now allow animals with damaged material in the record book.
Post by: boneaddict on November 24, 2010, 09:05:44 PM
I had NO IDEA they changed that rule. That is a MAJOR change.
Post by: Elkslayer on November 24, 2010, 09:07:19 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 24, 2010, 09:12:20 PM
WOW! Way to step up elkslayer.
I had NO IDEA they changed that rule. That is a MAJOR change.
Yes...of course the rack is subject to inspection and only the natural antler material can be included in measurements.
Post by: Basket Rack on November 25, 2010, 08:55:33 AM
Post by: Elkslayer on November 25, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
The sheds were actually both found the same year. I picked up the right side and a farmer picked up the left side. The right side had been stained that is why it is darker. The sheds were found in 1991 and were a year old. As far as I know his set from 1991 was never found. I have had them scored twice. One person scored them at 178 and one at 181 I believe. This buck did put on a lot of growth in two years.
Post by: bearpaw on November 25, 2010, 01:34:50 PM
I was going to purchase the rack from Cartwright myself just because it's from our county and I didn't want to see it go back east somewhere. At the time, I couldn't really afford to buy it but now wished I would have found a way as it is a beautiful rack. I hope this deer stays somewhere near Washington and at least it is being credited as being from the country where it grew. :twocents:
Post by: MtnMuley on November 25, 2010, 01:58:10 PM
Post by: daydreamn on November 25, 2010, 08:40:01 PM
Post by: jnevs23 on November 25, 2010, 10:15:50 PM
Post by: bow4elk on November 25, 2010, 10:49:59 PM
I know im gonna get flamed for this but this kind of stuff pisses me off. I personally know the whole story on this buck and I also have the sheds to this buck and have posted the pictures on here before. Jim Cartwright did not shoot this buck and I am not the only one that knows this. Yes Jim is great guy, I have worked for him in the past and he has done some truck hauling for me and my brother in law and still does for my brother in law. I have not seen or talked to Jim far about three years know and to find out that he is claiming to have shot this buck disappoints me. This buck was poached by a pot head in mid september of 1992. The guy spotlighted it in an alfalfa field and in a haste to get it loaded backed his truck over it. Thus the broken main beam. Jim Cartwright then purchased the rack from him a few weeks later for $700.00. This buck still had velvet on its tines that had not been completely rubbed off yet. Jim has been a hunter for along time he knew exactly the caliber of this rack that is why he bought it. Funny how he never once told me or anyone else that knew the real story the he killed this buck. Whenever we brought the subject up about the buck he would just quit talking. Just got done reading the story and if he claims to have shot it just down the road from his farm then this buck would have to have traveled 13 miles and over two mountain ranges from where I found his sheds. DBHAWTHORNE and BEARPAW I will glady pm you my phone number and you can call and I will tell you everything I know about this buck. I will even meet you in person and sit down and talk. I agree this buck deserves to be in the record book. BUT JIM CARTWRIGHT DID NOT SHOOT IT! and I would bet my career on it.
If this is true - and I believe you based on your claims of personal knowledge, then this animal is not eligible for B&C's Records Program. This information should be brought to the attention of the Records Office, and I hope you will do this. This has nothing to do with my own opinions, rather the strict rules of the B&C Club's Records Program.
Post by: huntnnw on November 25, 2010, 11:14:13 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 25, 2010, 11:25:19 PM
Great article, glad to see Washington state getting some pub for big bucks. I was surprised to read that #2 in the state is 181, I would have figured bigger. After reading the accusations that this buck was poached it's kind of ironic that the next article in the magazine is about a poached deer.
181 is just the next biggest entered. I know of more bucks not entered (that qualify) than ones that are entered.
I can almost guarantee a couple of our counties would place amongst the top in the nation for P&Y class whitetail if all of them were entered each year.
Post by: huntnnw on November 25, 2010, 11:27:40 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 25, 2010, 11:37:21 PM
Post by: huntnnw on November 26, 2010, 12:01:21 AM
Post by: bearpaw on November 26, 2010, 12:59:44 AM
I know im gonna get flamed for this but this kind of stuff pisses me off. I personally know the whole story on this buck and I also have the sheds to this buck and have posted the pictures on here before. Jim Cartwright did not shoot this buck and I am not the only one that knows this. Yes Jim is great guy, I have worked for him in the past and he has done some truck hauling for me and my brother in law and still does for my brother in law. I have not seen or talked to Jim far about three years know and to find out that he is claiming to have shot this buck disappoints me. This buck was poached by a pot head in mid september of 1992. The guy spotlighted it in an alfalfa field and in a haste to get it loaded backed his truck over it. Thus the broken main beam. Jim Cartwright then purchased the rack from him a few weeks later for $700.00. This buck still had velvet on its tines that had not been completely rubbed off yet. Jim has been a hunter for along time he knew exactly the caliber of this rack that is why he bought it. Funny how he never once told me or anyone else that knew the real story the he killed this buck. Whenever we brought the subject up about the buck he would just quit talking. Just got done reading the story and if he claims to have shot it just down the road from his farm then this buck would have to have traveled 13 miles and over two mountain ranges from where I found his sheds. DBHAWTHORNE and BEARPAW I will glady pm you my phone number and you can call and I will tell you everything I know about this buck. I will even meet you in person and sit down and talk. I agree this buck deserves to be in the record book. BUT JIM CARTWRIGHT DID NOT SHOOT IT! and I would bet my career on it.
If this is true - and I believe you based on your claims of personal knowledge, then this animal is not eligible for B&C's Records Program. This information should be brought to the attention of the Records Office, and I hope you will do this. This has nothing to do with my own opinions, rather the strict rules of the B&C Club's Records Program.
I think that bow4elk has made a good point, daydreamn and elkslayer should report what they know to the B&C if you they solid first hand information. The B&C has a track record for following up on claims and setting the record straight. :twocents:
Post by: jnevs23 on November 26, 2010, 08:17:40 AM
Post by: whacker1 on December 03, 2010, 04:47:52 PM
Post by: hunt4 on December 03, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
Post by: wehunt1 on December 09, 2010, 07:01:41 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 24, 2010, 10:29:50 AM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on December 24, 2010, 10:59:14 AM
Hard to be certain it is the same deer unless you know something specific.
:twocents:
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on December 24, 2010, 11:05:01 AM
I am Sam that missed this buck the year before it was poached. I was sick for a year after that shot and was looking forward to hunting that great buck the next season. Then I found out it had been poached and cartwright has swapped a 338 win mag for it, I was just sick. I called cartwright and ask if i could go to his house and look at the buck, which he let me do and after looking it over I am sure it was the same deer. It was shot with a 22 and backed over with the poachers pickup, which broke the antler. I hunted the property this buck came from for years and saw a lot of very nice bucks and did see 1 other buck in the 190 class that i screwed up on and did shoot a 165 5X5 there, but that has been years ago and I don't hunt up there anymore. The genetics are there and someday there will be another giant come from that area.
How do you know for a fact it was shot with a 22? :dunno:
Post by: daydreamn on December 24, 2010, 09:58:29 PM
Post by: Decker on December 26, 2010, 11:19:15 PM
There are a lot of differences and some similarities in the racks.
Hard to be certain it is the same deer unless you know something specific.
:twocents:
DNA test it. ...then clone it ;)
Post by: bearpaw on December 27, 2010, 10:00:14 AM
There are a lot of differences and some similarities in the racks.
Hard to be certain it is the same deer unless you know something specific.
:twocents:
DNA test it. ...then clone it ;)
Cloning for big bucks??? For sure a good topic for discussion...LOL
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 27, 2010, 10:46:25 AM
Just make sure they drop that cloned deer off in my backyard.There are a lot of differences and some similarities in the racks.
Hard to be certain it is the same deer unless you know something specific.
:twocents:
DNA test it. ...then clone it ;)
Cloning for big bucks??? For sure a good topic for discussion...LOL
Post by: grundy53 on December 27, 2010, 11:08:24 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 27, 2010, 11:28:42 AM
it's gonna be interesting following this saga...
OK, I will make the first comment....
As interesting as it sounds, I don't agree with the idea. I'm afraid if we started messing with DNA that something unnatural would happen that would dramatically impact our deer. I think selective breeding is OK where it is accomplished by culling poor quality bucks, but I don't agree with trying to clone our wild game.
Can you imagine 100 years from now, all the bucks look the same in the photos we post....LOL
(remember: you shouldn't mess with mother nature)
Perhaps this should be in another thread so we don't jack this thread...LOL
Post by: grundy53 on December 27, 2010, 11:36:03 AM
it's gonna be interesting following this saga...
OK, I will make the first comment....
As interesting as it sounds, I don't agree with the idea. I'm afraid if we started messing with DNA that something unnatural would happen that would dramatically impact our deer. I think selective breeding is OK where it is accomplished by culling poor quality bucks, but I don't agree with trying to clone our wild game.
Can you imagine 100 years from now, all the bucks look the same in the photos we post....LOL
(remember: you shouldn't mess with mother nature)
Perhaps this should be in another thread so we don't jack this thread...LOL
:chuckle: i wasn't actually refering to the cloning. i was refering to whether this buck was poached or not. now i'm going to grab some popcorn and fade into the background.... :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on December 27, 2010, 11:51:33 AM
it's gonna be interesting following this saga...
OK, I will make the first comment....
As interesting as it sounds, I don't agree with the idea. I'm afraid if we started messing with DNA that something unnatural would happen that would dramatically impact our deer. I think selective breeding is OK where it is accomplished by culling poor quality bucks, but I don't agree with trying to clone our wild game.
Can you imagine 100 years from now, all the bucks look the same in the photos we post....LOL
(remember: you shouldn't mess with mother nature)
Perhaps this should be in another thread so we don't jack this thread...LOL
:chuckle: i wasn't actually refering to the cloning. i was refering to whether this buck was poached or not. now i'm going to grab some popcorn and fade into the background.... :chuckle:
LOL :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Actually it will be interesting to follow either.
Post by: 25wssm on December 27, 2010, 11:14:25 PM
The store owner took the head to the spostsmans show in yakima and had it scored and entered in his name. He was smart enough not to take it to spokane where it would easily have been recognized by locals. The owner found out about the fraud and took the head back from the store. My neighbor purchsed the mount. Big antlers make people do stupid SH**.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 28, 2010, 01:35:45 AM
The 181 buck refered to in this thread hangs in my neighbors house. It was not killed by the person listed in the books. It was found dead by a logger. A beginning taxidermist mounted the deer and put it on display in his store as advertisement.
The store owner took the head to the spostsmans show in yakima and had it scored and entered in his name. He was smart enough not to take it to spokane where it would easily have been recognized by locals. The owner found out about the fraud and took the head back from the store. My neighbor purchsed the mount. Big antlers make people do stupid SH**.
Very interesting. In the spring I will be starting a project to research and compile the history/heritage of Washington whitetail for a book I am going to write. It sounds like it will be quite a challenge with many twists and turns. Despite where the truth in everything lies I just hope that people appreciate the magnificent whitetails from our region. I think recognizing the animal and where it is from is what it is all about.
Post by: daydreamn on December 28, 2010, 05:57:32 AM
The 181 buck refered to in this thread hangs in my neighbors house. It was not killed by the person listed in the books. It was found dead by a logger. A beginning taxidermist mounted the deer and put it on display in his store as advertisement.Sounds like your talking about the buck that [D.C.] picked up which hung in the Miles store for awhile? :dunno:
The store owner took the head to the spostsmans show in yakima and had it scored and entered in his name. He was smart enough not to take it to spokane where it would easily have been recognized by locals. The owner found out about the fraud and took the head back from the store. My neighbor purchsed the mount. Big antlers make people do stupid SH**.
Another awsome Washington buck. I thought that buck scored somewhere around 190 though, im not sure. Mabye your talking about something totally different. But your post made me think of that buck.
Post by: Hornseeker on December 28, 2010, 06:37:39 AM
I am going to check in one something for you though....
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 28, 2010, 09:24:45 AM
That should be fun DB... hopefully it wont increase the hunting pressure too much though... I doubt it. Unfortunately, I know several guys who have incredible collections of whiteys that you'll never get in your book... kind of a shame, but then again, hunting is a fairly private affair...if someone wants to be mondest and quiet...so be it.
I am going to check in one something for you though....
I don't think it will have much of an impact on our hunting pressure. I think the market for such a thing would be primarily local. Of course it may attract the attention of certain individuals and bring them our way but those same individuals are more likely to run across this website than that book. In our recent history we have had a lot of interest drawn to WA anyway. Our 200 3/8 state record entered into the record books by Bass Pro was one of them...that will bring some but not many because a lot of people will ignore it since it was killed 18 years ago (that and the gap to the next biggest buck entered is nearly 20 inches). In addition to this Realtree Outdoors filmed here this year for their Monster Buck series (probably the highest selling annual monster whitetail dvd). I think the lack of people entering their trophies is what has helped keep our pressure low. On Pope & Young class bucks I have no doubt a few of our counties would rank near the top in the nation if more of us entered our deer.
An endeavor such as this is more a work of passion and never really a money maker but hopefully I can recover my expenses. I would just like to record the history before it is lost. Whitetails, while being hunted heavily aren't one of the "cherished" animals by many in this part of the country and thus their history and the whitetail hunters legacy has largely been ignored compared to other states.
I have no doubts there are some great collections/trophies out there that will never be in the spotlight. I know of a couple.
Thanks for checking up on something for me. I look forward to hearing back from you.
Post by: Hornseeker on December 29, 2010, 06:09:14 AM
I'll give my dad a call and see if he can talk to this guy...I have NO idea if the guy will be interested...
Ernie
Post by: boneaddict on December 29, 2010, 06:14:57 AM
Quote
Very interesting. In the spring I will be starting a project to research and compile the history/heritage of Washington whitetail for a book I am going to write. It sounds like it will be quite a challenge with many twists and turns. Despite where the truth in everything lies I just hope that people appreciate the magnificent whitetails from our region. I think recognizing the animal and where it is from is what it is all about.
I've been thinking about doing the same thing with Muleys DB. Fun project even if it doesn't work out.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 29, 2010, 08:22:36 AM
I agree there are some good numbers of big bucks taken that aren't entered, but do you think the proportion not entered is any different from anywhere else? I generally feel like the proportions are probably pretty standard across the country. Therefore, take a state like Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin or Minnesota... they have a LOAD of P&Y entries, but they also have a humongous number that are not entered... I am not slighting NE WA in the least, but I really dont believe it holds a candle to some of the mid west states... Just my opinion...
I'll give my dad a call and see if he can talk to this guy...I have NO idea if the guy will be interested...
Ernie
I do believe we (in this region more so than just this state) enter less proportionally than the rest of the nation. There is no doubt a lot of guys in the midwest with sizable collections that haven't entered their deer. I know of a few. Whitetail hunting in most of the nation is big business. Here (comparatively) it is more of an afterthought for many people and the concern of bringing outsiders to the state by entering animals in the book is stronger than any place I have ever seen.
On the hoof, I have seen a lot of P&Y bucks in the midwest. However, I see way more bucks in the 125-150 class than is found across the midwest. I believe this region (WA, ID, MT) and specifically WA is amongst the top in the nation for bucks of that caliber. The midwest has a lot more top-end bucks than we do.
Almost every year I have shot opportunities at 10-15 P&Y class whitetail in the 125-150 range. About 10 years ago I saw 15 P&Y bucks in a field on my first hunt of the season. In 2006 I saw 6 P&Y bucks from one stand in a one week late season hunt (I was stationed out of state at the time). This year was worst ever with only 4 shot opportunities at whitetail 125-145ish the whole season. If I count up all of the P&Y class deer I see while scouting/driving/on stand/trail cam we are talking 30-60 a year. Again this year was worst ever for that (this is my first year hunting the whole season here since the hard winters); I didn't keep an accurate count at this moment but the number is right around 20-25.
This year alone I personally know of nearly 30 (I will have to count them up later) pope and young class whitetails killed in this state ranging from 125-190 inches (I am sure I only know of a fraction of the number taken). I personally had only seen 2 of these bucks before so now we are looking at 20 something additional whitetail of that size that were roaming the hills. I bet only 5-10 of them are entered in the books.
All these animals seen by one guy in only a few counties and in dense forest habitat with lots of security cover...in addition to the ones I know of taken by everyone else. I have no doubt we are a P&Y factory and our counties could easily be on par with the top counties in the nation when it comes to this size animal. I believe our B&C numbers are closer to accurate...how do they stack up? Stevens County has had 12 non-typical bucks entered over the course of history. That would tie it for 28th place with several other counties across the nation for all time non-typical entires (the top county has 35 and they drop off quickly from there). Stevens County has at least one 200 inch typical whitetail that was taken. There are only 17 200+ whitetail in B&C so the fact our habitat/genetics can produce a 200 inch typical whitetail is really saying something.
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on December 29, 2010, 08:48:44 AM
Post by: Ray on December 29, 2010, 08:50:29 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 29, 2010, 09:03:33 AM
Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?
I think the opportunities for P&Y class are pretty even amongst public/private. However, there is a huge advantage to hunting the public land.....your rarely limited by borders and you have access to way more land. We have some high quality public lands for trophy whitetail. If someone consistently want to find 150+ whitetail year after year you will likely have to focus on the public lands or a large amount of private land. I have permission to hunt some great private lands but they don't hold 150+ deer on an annual basis. One exception to this would be finding a smaller place with exceptionally low hunting pressure. For years I only looked for properties in no shooting (ie..bow only) areas surrounding Spokane County. I have one 15 acre piece that would consistently have traffic from 150+ whitetail...but I never connected over anything bigger than a couple 148 inch bucks. In the past 10 years the pressure has really picked up in these areas and it makes hunting those big bucks extremely difficult.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 29, 2010, 09:06:56 AM
That thing is a monster and I read about it at the grocery store magazine stand. A lot of my friends back east don't even know we have whitetails.
It is indeed a monster. It's amazing what this place can produce.
My wife had a guy from Arkansas trying to tell her that the buck she killed this year was a Mule Deer because we don't have Whitetail here. Another friend from TX sent us a pic of his 100 inch (140 class) buck and then told us there was no way my wife's buck could be a 140 class buck and was at least 180.
Post by: bearpaw on December 31, 2010, 09:33:12 AM
Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?
I think the opportunities for P&Y class are pretty even amongst public/private. However, there is a huge advantage to hunting the public land.....your rarely limited by borders and you have access to way more land. We have some high quality public lands for trophy whitetail. If someone consistently want to find 150+ whitetail year after year you will likely have to focus on the public lands or a large amount of private land. I have permission to hunt some great private lands but they don't hold 150+ deer on an annual basis. One exception to this would be finding a smaller place with exceptionally low hunting pressure. For years I only looked for properties in no shooting (ie..bow only) areas surrounding Spokane County. I have one 15 acre piece that would consistently have traffic from 150+ whitetail...but I never connected over anything bigger than a couple 148 inch bucks. In the past 10 years the pressure has really picked up in these areas and it makes hunting those big bucks extremely difficult.
I think there are more big bucks on public land. We have done mostly private land hunts for years and we enjoy 90% success or better almost every year on our guided hunts. However, we don't get many top end bucks on the private because we can't afford to not hunt it for 2 or 3 years to let them get really big. Most of the private land gets hunted enough to keep many bucks from getting really big, or else they wander onto a neighboring property and get whacked there. There are very few properties bigger than 640 acres in NE WA.
While we intend to keep doing our private land hunts because of the extremely high success on nice bucks, we are expanding our public land hunting next year so we can try to get more of the top end bucks. There are huge jungles of thick cover and that's where the smart bucks hide during deer season. Many of these really big bucks on public land die of old age, bad winters, or get eaten by predators. The biggest bucks I have seen have mostly been on public land and never were taken by hunters. They simply eventually vanished, most likely due to one of the causes mentioned.
So we actually intend to ramp up our public land mountain hunting. Hope that helps to answer the question about public land hunting in NE Washington. But be warned, you will likely not see as many deer like you see on the private lands as it's much tougher hunting on the public land. :twocents:
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on December 31, 2010, 11:26:06 AM
Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?
I think the opportunities for P&Y class are pretty even amongst public/private. However, there is a huge advantage to hunting the public land.....your rarely limited by borders and you have access to way more land. We have some high quality public lands for trophy whitetail. If someone consistently want to find 150+ whitetail year after year you will likely have to focus on the public lands or a large amount of private land. I have permission to hunt some great private lands but they don't hold 150+ deer on an annual basis. One exception to this would be finding a smaller place with exceptionally low hunting pressure. For years I only looked for properties in no shooting (ie..bow only) areas surrounding Spokane County. I have one 15 acre piece that would consistently have traffic from 150+ whitetail...but I never connected over anything bigger than a couple 148 inch bucks. In the past 10 years the pressure has really picked up in these areas and it makes hunting those big bucks extremely difficult.
I think there are more big bucks on public land. We have done mostly private land hunts for years and we enjoy 90% success or better almost every year on our guided hunts. However, we don't get many top end bucks on the private because we can't afford to not hunt it for 2 or 3 years to let them get really big. Most of the private land gets hunted enough to keep many bucks from getting really big, or else they wander onto a neighboring property and get whacked there. There are very few properties bigger than 640 acres in NE WA.
While we intend to keep doing our private land hunts because of the extremely high success on nice bucks, we are expanding our public land hunting next year so we can try to get more of the top end bucks. There are huge jungles of thick cover and that's where the smart bucks hide during deer season. Many of these really big bucks on public land die of old age, bad winters, or get eaten by predators. The biggest bucks I have seen have mostly been on public land and never were taken by hunters. They simply eventually vanished, most likely due to one of the causes mentioned.
So we actually intend to ramp up our public land mountain hunting. Hope that helps to answer the question about public land hunting in NE Washington. But be warned, you will likely not see as many deer like you see on the private lands as it's much tougher hunting on the public land. :twocents:
Great stuff. I agree, for most of us the public land hunting is going to be better.. especially if you want 150+ bucks. Public land gives me a lot more freedom to move around and find those bucks....and I can get away from people/pressure.