Post by: gigharborguyjerry on May 28, 2011, 06:13:33 PM
NEW SECTION. Sec. 3. (1) A discover pass is required for any
motor vehicle to park or operate on any recreation site or lands,
except for short-term parking as may be authorized under section 8 of
this act.
Hunters got screwed on this bill and there is no more free lunch on DNR land. I for one will just roll the dice and rather pay a fine than buy this pass.
Post by: GlennGTR on May 28, 2011, 06:19:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 28, 2011, 06:31:04 PM
What about the pass you get when purchasing your license. If I remember right, you get that use permit your sapposed to hang on your rearview mirrow.
That pass is for Department of Fish & Wildlife lands ONLY, not Department of Natural Resources.
Post by: gigharborguyjerry on May 28, 2011, 06:37:03 PM
Yes, there is a lot of confusion and hunters are learning about this and are getting pissed.
This bill started out as a state park bill and the guys in Olympia got greedy and slipped in this provision to drain the hunters out of some more easy cash. Heck, with gas like it is I will have to chose. Either a tank of gas or a discover pass. Guess which one I will buy. This is just a sucker law and they will never enforce in the woods.maybe around parks.
Post by: bigtex on May 28, 2011, 07:22:42 PM
I have been in contact with the DNR and also read the HB 5622. According to DNR and the way I read the bill we will all need a discover pass to park, camp and hunt on ALL DNR land. They added a new section to include the word "lands" which are areas outside DNR rec. areas.
NEW SECTION. Sec. 3. (1) A discover pass is required for any
motor vehicle to park or operate on any recreation site or lands,
except for short-term parking as may be authorized under section 8 of
this act.
Hunters got screwed on this bill and there is no more free lunch on DNR land. I for one will just roll the dice and rather pay a fine than buy this pass.
The addition of "lands" doesn't do anything to which DNR areas you will need it because the definition of "lands" in this bill is not what you are implying:
(7) "Recreation site or lands" means a state park or fish and wildlife conservation sites including water access areas, boat ramps, wildlife areas, parking areas, roads, and trailheads, or department of natural resources developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads, and parking areas.
Only certain DNR lands fall under that definition. In comparison all WDFW owned land (that you can recreate on) is either a boat launch/water access area or apart of a wildlife area.
To see which DNR areas you will need the pass go to this website: http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx)
This is also the page referred to on the Discover Pass website as to which DNR lands/areas need the pass.
Post by: gigharborguyjerry on May 28, 2011, 09:43:20 PM
I thought so too until I called the spokesman for DNR.
If you have questions call Mark:
Mark Mauren
Assistant Division Manager Recreation Public Access and WCC Section
360-902-1047
mark.mauren@dnr.wa.gov
He will tell you that any road on any DNR land requires a Discover pass if you park, camp, hike or hunt.
I couldn't believe it either so you may want to talk to him yourself.
Post by: gigharborguyjerry on May 30, 2011, 01:25:56 PM
I heard back this AM from DNR and BigTex is right. You only in the Discover Pass in certain DNR areas not them all.
Thanks and a hat tip to BigTex for keeping me on target.
Post by: Scottystyle on June 01, 2011, 08:22:11 AM
Post by: Oldguy on June 01, 2011, 08:49:47 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2011, 09:13:14 AM
Post by: sebek556 on June 01, 2011, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2011, 09:33:32 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on June 01, 2011, 09:34:14 AM
isn't this what the vehicle access pass, you get with the licesince is for? It even says it one the clip above. :yeah:
It was, but now they want more money. If they had 1/2 a brain they would tax bicycles in Seattle. Even at $5 or $10 dollars they would get far more money. There is also no excuse for not charging Electric Cars to use the roads. I also see a difference between DNR & Parks. Our License should cover DNR during Hunting & Fishing Seasons.
Post by: sebek556 on June 01, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
Post by: Curly on June 01, 2011, 09:41:57 AM
:yeah:isn't this what the vehicle access pass, you get with the licesince is for? It even says it one the clip above. :yeah:
It was, but now they want more money. If they had 1/2 a brain they would tax bicycles in Seattle. Even at $5 or $10 dollars they would get far more money. There is also no excuse for not charging Electric Cars to use the roads. I also see a difference between DNR & Parks. Our License should cover DNR during Hunting & Fishing Seasons.
Post by: Nosferatu on June 01, 2011, 09:58:49 AM
Awesome.
Post by: bigtex on June 01, 2011, 10:06:01 AM
According to WDFW website, if you have purchased a big game combo, or annual fishing license you will be issued the discover pass. :dunno:
Your a little confused. There are basically three different passes:
1- WDFW Vechicle Use Permit- Only used for WDFW lands and this is the pass that is free with your fishing and hunting licenses and has been around for 10+ years
2- Singe Day Discover Pass- $10 for one day can be used for State Parks, DNR and WDFW lands
3- Annual Discover Pass- $30 for the year can be used at State Parks, DNR and WDFW lands.
Post by: bobcat on June 01, 2011, 10:06:33 AM
Hunting and fishing license fees don't go to the DNR, they go to the WDFW.
Post by: runamuk on June 01, 2011, 10:13:43 AM
I'm not sure why a hunting or fishing license would cover people on DNR lands. :dunno:
Hunting and fishing license fees don't go to the DNR, they go to the WDFW.
I dunno I could see the confusion Dept of natural Resources and Wa Dept Of Fish and Wildlife seems like they might have something to do with each other but we forget in WA state we divide all user groups then we divide from within those user groups....
I am not sure anymore which lands are which its so confusing BLM, DNR, State forest, National Park, State parks, County parks, Bureau of reclamation, WDFW, then all the private forests like green diamond has an elk area smack in the middle of it so is that elk area private or wdfw or some other designation? I know they decided to log it right in the middle of elk season last year that was pretty awesome so I never went back....
I have all kinds of maps and truth is anymore I just get confused trying to figure out what the heck I am doing...
Post by: Machias on June 01, 2011, 10:34:27 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on June 01, 2011, 10:56:53 AM
We'll all just need to layout all the different passes and licenses on our dashboards and hope we are covered. What a crock. :bash:
Or, you could do what they really want, STAY OUT OF "THE STATE'S LANDS!" Someone said it best, $100'00's spent on Licences, Permits, Taxes, and it's not enough. It will never be enough until you are unwilling to pay. I say shut all the Parks down. Lay all the people off, I've had it.
Post by: woodswalker on June 01, 2011, 11:23:33 AM
Quote
Exemptions to the Discover Pass
Your purchase of the Discover Pass supports recreation on state lands. However, you do not need to purchase the pass under the following circumstances:
Camping in a Washington state park: Your camping reservation stub or camping fee receipt will serve as your permit for the duration of your stay in the park where you have paid for a campsite. If you visit other state parks in the area, you will need an annual or daily Discover Pass. You will need a pass if you are camping on lands managed by the Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).
Hunting and fishing on WDFW-managed lands. When you buy certain types of hunting and fishing licenses, you will receive a vehicle access pass for WDFW-managed lands and won’t need the Discover Pass on those lands. You will still need the Discover Pass to hunt or fish on DNR or State Parks land. As a reminder, there is no hunting on State Parks lands.
:yike:
Tells me i need to bleed for one MORE pass...in addition to the ORV monies stolen by the Guv, the Wildlife License plate monies appropriated by the Guv.
:bash:
Post by: bigtex on June 01, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
QuoteExemptions to the Discover Pass
Your purchase of the Discover Pass supports recreation on state lands. However, you do not need to purchase the pass under the following circumstances:
Camping in a Washington state park: Your camping reservation stub or camping fee receipt will serve as your permit for the duration of your stay in the park where you have paid for a campsite. If you visit other state parks in the area, you will need an annual or daily Discover Pass. You will need a pass if you are camping on lands managed by the Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).
Hunting and fishing on WDFW-managed lands. When you buy certain types of hunting and fishing licenses, you will receive a vehicle access pass for WDFW-managed lands and won’t need the Discover Pass on those lands. You will still need the Discover Pass to hunt or fish on DNR or State Parks land. As a reminder, there is no hunting on State Parks lands.
:yike:
Tells me i need to bleed for one MORE pass...in addition to the ORV monies stolen by the Guv, the Wildlife License plate monies appropriated by the Guv.
:bash:
The ORV/NOVA funds are now going back to ORV related projects. Wildlife plate funds were never moved, it was talked about but never happened.
Post by: Curly on June 01, 2011, 11:58:31 AM
DNR and State Parks are different agencies and as such I really think they should have had separate passes for accessing their lands. DNR manages the state forests and makes money off of timber sales......they may not be making the amount of money they used to during good timber market times, but they are likely still making money. They do have some recreation areas, but their main purpose is to manage forests. State Parks manages recreation areas and provides campgrounds and parks for the citizens of the state.
DNR should have been charging fees all along for their campgrounds and fees for trail maintenance that the ATV'ers and cyclists use all the time. It's crazy to think that DNR should be maintaining their campgrounds and trails without charging the users. I'd say $30 is a bargain for the ATV guys and cyclists that use Capital Forest and other DNR recreation areas several times per year. But for a hunter that may only go one or two weekends per year, it kind of bites........plus a hunter may not be using the campgrounds and maintained trails anyway, so he's essentially funding the cyclists and ATV users.
This Discover Pass sucks. Basically, I think there should have been some pass for DNR recreation area use (since DNR is not in the recreation business) for cyclists, campers, motorcyclists, horse riders, and ATV riders (and maybe a fee for parking at some of the popular trail-heads). They should have come up with a tax or fee (whatever you want to call it) for ATV's, motorcycles, and mountain bikes that use State Forest lands and figured out something else for State Parks...........like close more of them down if they can't manage them correctly or find some other funding. I really think that State Parks benefit the whole society in the State and every citizen should be paying toward the State Parks (as long as they aren't being greatly mis-managed), so the cost should be spread out over every citizen of the state. Then they can collect the majority of the money for maintaining the park from user fees (campground and boat launch fees).
Lets say a single mother with a couple kids wants to get the kids outside for some exercise and fresh air. Wouldn't it be nice if she could take them to a State Park to enjoy a picnic or go to DNR lands to take a hike without having to pay an extra fee?
Other opinions will vary, but that is my take. :twocents:
p.s. - sorry for the long rant. :sry:
Post by: winshooter88 on June 03, 2011, 01:40:13 AM
First the WDFW proposed increasing fees, part of this proposal was a pass for non-consumptive users (hikers, bikers, bird watchers, etc..) to help maintain WDFW lands that they also use. I know this, because I was at a meeting where Dave Ware explained the WDFW fee proposal.
Next our Governor sent out her budget proposal. In her budget she removed all but $25.000.000.00 from the State Parks budget from the general fund over the next biennium. The reason was, that she couldn't raise taxes easily because of Tim Eyman's tax initiative. And there were other things she felt were more important than state parks.
The legislature saw the Governor's budget proposal and the fee increase proposal from WDFW. They decided to take the non-consumptive user permit from the WDFW proposal, tack on the State Parks and DNR to make what we now have as the Discover Pass. Then they set the price and divided up the projected income. Originally the WDFW and DNR were to get 7.5% each and State Parks were to get 86%. This was later adjusted to 8% each for WDFW and DNR, and 84% for State Parks. If the Discover Pass sales go over $71.000.000.00 Then anything over that is supposed to be split evenly between all three agencies.
When the legislature passed the Discover Pass bill and the Governor signed it, none of the plans to implement it even existed.
If you can find any copies of the WDFW's original fee hike proposals you will see the non-consumptive users pass on the list.
Just so you know the basics of how this came about.
Post by: dreamingbig on June 03, 2011, 05:50:49 AM
All users of Cougar Mountain have to have the pass... a lot of liberal dems in Seattle will be saying, "I need what to hike/trail run here?".
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 03, 2011, 05:55:53 AM
Post by: danderson on June 03, 2011, 06:03:51 AM
Post by: JLS on June 03, 2011, 06:37:40 AM
I say this is not right, we sportsman shouldnt have to buy another pass, we already buy the hunting licence, what good is the parking pass if it doesnt cover DNR land also. give me a break. Its time for a boycott.
It does cover DNR land. You just don't have to have it to hunt isolated and undeveloped pieces of DNR land.
What exactly are you boycotting?
Post by: yelp on June 03, 2011, 06:55:36 AM
Post by: CP on June 03, 2011, 07:04:59 AM
I just want to know if I buy a WA state parks annual boat launch decal for $70.00 does it include a discover pass? Or is that going to cost me another $30.00? :bash:
State Parks boat launch sites. You will not need a Discover Pass to launch your boat from a State Parks boat launch if you have the appropriate permit. You will need the Discover Pass for boat launches managed by DNR and WDFW.
http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/ (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/)
Post by: ICEMAN on June 03, 2011, 07:21:14 AM
I cannot wait until next year when they roll out the following:
Mushroom and Berry Picking tag.
Pull over to a gated side road to take a pee Pass.
And the "Can I stop and take a picture pass? !!!
Maybe this entire collapse of the economy that is poised to occur might be a good way to start over?
Post by: yelp on June 03, 2011, 07:24:35 AM
Yay! More licenses and fees!!!!! :drool:
I cannot wait until next year when they roll out the following:
Mushroom and Berry Picking tag.
Pull over to a gated side road to take a pee Pass.
And the "Can I stop and take a picture pass? !!!
Maybe this entire collapse of the economy that is poised to occur might be a good way to start over?
YOu forgot the breathing public air fee.
Post by: yelp on June 03, 2011, 07:28:01 AM
I just want to know if I buy a WA state parks annual boat launch decal for $70.00 does it include a discover pass? Or is that going to cost me another $30.00? :bash:
State Parks boat launch sites. You will not need a Discover Pass to launch your boat from a State Parks boat launch if you have the appropriate permit. You will need the Discover Pass for boat launches managed by DNR and WDFW.
http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/ (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/)
Thanks for the info...My interpretation...So it looks like I will still have to buy a boat launch permit. The cheaper discover pass doesn't cover boat launches at state parks.
Post by: NWHydroprint on June 03, 2011, 07:30:36 AM
So my take on it the wdfw should not plant trout at any of the state park lakes or enforce any game laws outside of wdfw land or open puplic lands. Let the parks and DNR manage their own why should us sportman pay to manage the whole state. It's a fact that we as a user group will be the ones buying most of the discover passes. So countinues the bleeding of the sportman along with the increase in licinses and tags.
NWH
Post by: bobcat on June 03, 2011, 09:54:22 AM
I just want to know if I buy a WA state parks annual boat launch decal for $70.00 does it include a discover pass? Or is that going to cost me another $30.00? :bash:
State Parks boat launch sites. You will not need a Discover Pass to launch your boat from a State Parks boat launch if you have the appropriate permit. You will need the Discover Pass for boat launches managed by DNR and WDFW.
http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/ (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/)
Thanks for the info...My interpretation...So it looks like I will still have to buy a boat launch permit. The cheaper discover pass doesn't cover boat launches at state parks.
Yes you will need to buy the boat launch permit, but you don't need the Discover Pass.
Post by: bobcat on June 03, 2011, 10:03:39 AM
It's a fact that we as a user group will be the ones buying most of the discover passes.
I don't think that's true. A whole lot of people will be needing it so they can hike the trails at Tiger Mountain and Mount Si (King County) and LOTS of people hike, mountain bike, and ride motorcycles/ATV's and horses in Capitol Forest (Thurston County). Many, if not most, of these people do not hunt or fish. And that's just a couple of examples. I think the Discover passes purchased by hunters will be a very small drop in the bucket overall. I'll be doing my part by not purchasing one. :chuckle:
Post by: Armadillo on June 03, 2011, 10:10:10 AM
I emailed the DNR and Discover Pass, they couldnt even tell me if I needed one for my area. The discover pass people said "you may need one" :bash: thanks for the clarification Disc Pass person :bash:
Post by: bobcat on June 03, 2011, 11:07:49 AM
Post by: winshooter88 on June 03, 2011, 03:24:01 PM
It's a fact that we as a user group will be the ones buying most of the discover passes.
I don't think that's true. A whole lot of people will be needing it so they can hike the trails at Tiger Mountain and Mount Si (King County) and LOTS of people hike, mountain bike, and ride motorcycles/ATV's and horses in Capitol Forest (Thurston County). Many, if not most, of these people do not hunt or fish. And that's just a couple of examples. I think the Discover passes purchased by hunters will be a very small drop in the bucket overall. I'll be doing my part by not purchasing one. :chuckle:
From the Discover Pass Website,
Off-Road Vehicle (ORVs): If your ORV is required to display an ORV tab, you do not need a Discover Pass for that vehicle. Generally, ORVs are non street-legal vehicles. You will need a Discover Pass for the street-legal vehicle that transports your ORV to a state recreation site. The trailer does not require a pass.
So ORV riders that have to have a ORV license will not need a Pass.
Post by: bigtex on June 03, 2011, 04:45:41 PM
Mushroom and Berry Picking tag.
Well actually state law requires you to have a specialized forest products permit for anything over 5 gallons of mushrooms. Then on top of that individual landowners (such as National Forests) can require you to get a permit to pick any amount of shrooms, berries and other forest products
Post by: bobcat on June 03, 2011, 06:37:25 PM
So ORV riders that have to have a ORV license will not need a Pass.
Yes they do. It says right there, in what you posted. The ORV itself doesn't need it, but the vehicle you use to get the ORV there DOES need to have the Discover pass.
Post by: winshooter88 on June 03, 2011, 07:25:57 PM
I was talking only about the actual orv, not the rig they use to get it to where they ride. The Discover Pass can only be used for one vehicle.
So they don't have to have two, only the one for their transport rig.
Post by: ck on June 03, 2011, 08:02:28 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on June 04, 2011, 06:03:47 AM
Mushroom and Berry Picking tag.
Well actually state law requires you to have a specialized forest products permit for anything over 5 gallons of mushrooms. Then on top of that individual landowners (such as National Forests) can require you to get a permit to pick any amount of shrooms, berries and other forest products
For private consumption I could care less if folks pick mushrooms/berries.... What bothers me is the depletion of the forest of Salal, all allowed so that illegal pickers have another revenue source.
Post by: mtman on June 04, 2011, 06:54:00 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 04, 2011, 07:09:43 AM
No, it doesn't say anything about a free Discover pass with the purchase of a hunting of fishing license.Ya know this seriously pi$$e$ me off ... When are we ever going to say we had enough with this crap.. everything has gates on it , can just take the family out and enjoy a ride up in the mountains like I always have .. its just bull sh$t..... this land is all of ours and I think we need to just take back !!!! :bash: :bash:
Post by: bigtex on June 05, 2011, 04:55:59 PM
Mushroom and Berry Picking tag.
Well actually state law requires you to have a specialized forest products permit for anything over 5 gallons of mushrooms. Then on top of that individual landowners (such as National Forests) can require you to get a permit to pick any amount of shrooms, berries and other forest products
For private consumption I could care less if folks pick mushrooms/berries.... What bothers me is the depletion of the forest of Salal, all allowed so that illegal pickers have another revenue source.
Quite honestly I think the issue with the illegal take of forest products (especially salal and bear grass) is the lack of enforcement because there are laws and permits required to pick but they rarely get followed. Under state law county sheriffs, DNR, WDFW, WSP and the US Forest Service are to be the enforcement authority for forest product picking.
I can never remember a time when a WSP Trooper did any type of this enforcement. About the only time I can remember a county deputy doing forest product enforcement are during emphasis patrols for forest products or when county budgets were big and many counties had “forest patrols” but since everybody is in the red for their budget you don’t see deputies doing this enforcement. DNR and USFS have to stick to their lands for law enforcement issues. WDFW obviously has a lot of other issues (fish and wildlife seasons) so forest product enforcement is done but not to a significant level, more often it’s a WDFW Officer who is out doing hunting enforcement and runs into a forest product violation.
For the sake of my examples let’s look at the Olympic Peninsula area since that’s where the large majority of forest product picking occurs. It is well known that DNR only has one law enforcement officer per DNR region. So there is one DNR Officer that covers law enforcement in Clallam, Jefferson, a good portion of Grays Harbor, and a corner of Mason County. Then with the USFS and the Olympic National Forest, in 2008/9 the USFS cut the amount of law enforcement positions on that forest in half, at the time the forest probably could have added 2 more officers, so they are also drastically understaffed in the area. Thats a couple officers to handle a TON of issues on a huge amount of land, and not just forest products.
Post by: Little Dave on June 14, 2011, 07:56:18 AM
Quite honestly I think the issue with the illegal take of forest products (especially salal and bear grass) is the lack of enforcement because there are laws and permits required to pick but they rarely get followed. Under state law county sheriffs, DNR, WDFW, WSP and the US Forest Service are to be the enforcement authority for forest product picking.
Children are shown films in third, fourth, and fifth grade that gloss over the concept of public lands... the seed for the idea that public lands are owned by everybody. This is where people form the idea that they can go in there and do pretty much what they want.
The fee concept is kind of new. I should probably be charging a fee for my kids to return home each day they retrun from school so that they can get used to the concept... or periodically change the locks and have them pay for the new key.
Got a chuckle this morning when I asked my son what the logo says. He couldn't see that the tree was supposed to be part of the letter A, he figured I...
So, according to my son, the cutesy artwork says Discover Piss. I guess we will be calling it that.
Post by: fireweed on June 19, 2011, 09:01:01 PM
Post by: huntingextremist on June 20, 2011, 10:16:05 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on June 20, 2011, 10:29:01 PM
Why is everyone so upset about a $30 pass to access DNR "recreation lands"? DNR land provides you with a place to hunt, fish, camp, berry pick, cut firewood, or just relax and go for a drive. You spend more than that taking the family out to dinner or going to the movies, and those activities only last a couple of hours! If you want to be upset about something be upset that DNR is only getting $2.55 per pass! How many of you can go hunting in State Parks? How about this for a question, when the morons rut up the roads, dump garbage, shoot up trees on DNR land is that recreation? If you camp on DNR land where there are not facilities, are you not doing it for recreation? I'm sure no one on this forum would leave a mess when they camp away from designated campsites. But it does happen so who should pay for that? It seems that there are no free rides any more and if I have to pay to access some of our state trust lands then I am willing. And as a point of clarification, DNR land is not "public land" even if that is what the commissioners title is. DNR land is state trust land that provides money to it's trust beneficiaries, like schools, colleges, and state capital.
My bitch is we already pay $10 per hunting license and $10 to fish per license for parking and they raided the funds. What makes you think they won't raid these funds in a few years? Or, when will they reallocate the DNR fund. I do not trust our Government to use their taxes for what they claim it is for. I would rather see a pass for DNR where it gets all it's funds and let people who use parks pay for that activity. We will get screwed again, we always do.
Post by: Special T on June 20, 2011, 10:30:23 PM
Post by: sebek556 on June 20, 2011, 10:31:01 PM
Post by: madmack76 on June 20, 2011, 10:32:45 PM
Post by: 300rum on June 20, 2011, 10:44:51 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 20, 2011, 11:14:59 PM
And for those saying we already pay enough fees through our hunting and/or fishing licenses- well those fees do not go to the DNR. They only go to the WDFW, so that's really not a valid argument.
Post by: winshooter88 on June 21, 2011, 01:07:09 AM
Just to add reality to this dicussion, the actual price of the Discover Pass will be $35.00 after you add in dealer and transaction fees. This to me makes it just that much harder to swallow.
Post by: turkey buster on June 21, 2011, 01:53:16 AM
Post by: grundy53 on June 21, 2011, 06:00:37 AM
Why is everyone so upset about a $30 pass to access DNR "recreation lands"? DNR land provides you with a place to hunt, fish, camp, berry pick, cut firewood, or just relax and go for a drive. You spend more than that taking the family out to dinner or going to the movies, and those activities only last a couple of hours! If you want to be upset about something be upset that DNR is only getting $2.55 per pass! How many of you can go hunting in State Parks? How about this for a question, when the morons rut up the roads, dump garbage, shoot up trees on DNR land is that recreation? If you camp on DNR land where there are not facilities, are you not doing it for recreation? I'm sure no one on this forum would leave a mess when they camp away from designated campsites. But it does happen so who should pay for that? It seems that there are no free rides any more and if I have to pay to access some of our state trust lands then I am willing. And as a point of clarification, DNR land is not "public land" even if that is what the commissioners title is. DNR land is state trust land that provides money to it's trust beneficiaries, like schools, colleges, and state capital.
We ALREADY pay for it. It's called taxes. Also, DNR land IS public land. Not all DNR land is trust land, but even the trust land is own by PUBLIC schools. Which means WE pay for it. This is just more redistribution of wealth and it makes me sick.
Post by: ErikN on June 21, 2011, 06:14:35 PM
So NW forest pass $30, + 2 snow park permits @$33 +3 sets of ORV tabs at $22 + hunting licences at about $150 for everything, that totals out to $312 a year just to be leagal to park already. Now I am supposed to give these worthless people more money to put up gates to keep me off of public land? This is ridiculous. I'm not planning on buying it.
Post by: Special T on June 21, 2011, 08:23:10 PM
Post by: bigtex on June 21, 2011, 10:41:53 PM
FYI the NOVA (ORV) funds are going back to ORV issues this year
Post by: True Sportsman on June 21, 2011, 11:21:44 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on June 22, 2011, 08:42:23 AM
Erik,
FYI the NOVA (ORV) funds are going back to ORV issues this year
Maybe , but what about money already STOLEN and spent?
Post by: turkey buster on June 23, 2011, 07:38:43 PM
Do state beaches fall under this discover pass? is it considered WDFW land or state park, or is it DNR?
Post by: bobcat on June 23, 2011, 07:43:11 PM
Post by: Hunterman on June 23, 2011, 07:50:44 PM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: turkey buster on June 23, 2011, 07:57:00 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 23, 2011, 08:00:20 PM
A. The pass is required on state recreation lands and water-access sites managed by Washington State Parks (State Parks), Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR). These lands include state parks, water-access points, heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads. The Discover Pass will be needed to access DNR’s developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads and parking areas.
Q. If I am driving through state recreation lands, will I need to buy a pass?
A. Yes. Unless you are exempt from pass requirements (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/), the pass is required anytime your vehicle is on state recreation lands managed by WDFW, DNR or State Parks. The pass is not required on roads managed by other jurisdictions, such as state highways or county roads that may pass through recreation lands.
Q. If I am gathering mushrooms, berries or firewood for my personal use or doing other dispersed recreation activities such as geocaching, driving forest roads, bird watching, etc., do I still need to purchase an access pass?
A. Yes. All street-licensed vehicles will need a Discover Pass to access state recreation lands managed by the agencies.
Q. Do I need a Discover Pass if I access state recreation lands by foot, horse, bicycle, boat, skateboard, etc.?
A. No. The Discover Pass is a vehicle permit and is only required for street-legal motor vehicles to access state-managed recreation lands. It is not required for access using other forms of transportation, such as bicycles, boats, horses or on foot. However, if motor vehicles are used to transport or tow boats, bicycles, horses, etc., the motor vehicle must display the pass. Boaters will still need to pay any moorage and boat pumping fees.
Q. Will I need a Discover Pass to drive on ocean beaches for clam digging or other recreation?
You will not need a Discover Pass to access the beach or to drive or park on the beach. However, you will need a Discover Pass to park in any developed State Parks parking areas upland from the beach.
Post by: wormfood on June 23, 2011, 08:00:59 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 23, 2011, 08:02:46 PM
Post by: turkey buster on June 23, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
Post by: sebek556 on June 23, 2011, 08:04:18 PM
Post by: wormfood on June 23, 2011, 08:36:37 PM
:bdid: :bs: :ass:I know its a bad Idea and B.S. but its past the time to get to vote on it and I would not of voted for it. I dont care for much of the people in state politics right now and if this is what it takes to keep a couple union brothers employed I support pay the B.S. pass price.Pay to play on state land is 100% bull @#it but I support my neighbor and it might be what keeps him from the unemployment line!
Post by: bigtex on June 23, 2011, 08:38:20 PM
I think the beaches are under the jurisdiction of state parks, but you don't need the Discover pass.
Here is the thing about beaches and this law. Coastal beaches are owned by WA St Parks but are not an actual State Park. The coastal beaches are classified as the "Seashore Conservation Area".
The Discover Pass bill requires the pass at state parks. Since the Seashore Conservation Area is not a state park it is not needed. Had the bill said the pass was needed at all lands owned by WA St Parks it would be a different story.
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on June 23, 2011, 09:30:45 PM
I went back and re-read the bill. Section 2 says this:
(7) "Recreation site or lands" means a state park or fish and wildlife conservation sites including water access areas, boat ramps, wildlife areas, parking areas, roads, and trailheads, or department of natural resources developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads, and parking areas.
Is the reason that the bill doesn't apply to the beach is because it says "state park" vs state park lands or state park managed areas?
Post by: DeerThug on June 23, 2011, 09:35:18 PM
waiting until the next election when McKenna is gov and wil reverse all of the crap that has happened.
Post by: bigtex on June 23, 2011, 09:36:18 PM
Bigtex, question.
I went back and re-read the bill. Section 2 says this:
(7) "Recreation site or lands" means a state park or fish and wildlife conservation sites including water access areas, boat ramps, wildlife areas, parking areas, roads, and trailheads, or department of natural resources developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads, and parking areas.
Is the reason that the bill doesn't apply to the beach is because it says "state park" vs state park lands or state park managed areas?
Correct
Post by: NW-GSP on June 23, 2011, 09:39:01 PM
Post by: OlympicElkJunkie on June 23, 2011, 09:57:51 PM
Post by: bradslam on June 23, 2011, 10:22:18 PM
Post by: Special T on June 23, 2011, 11:00:37 PM
Post by: elkman54 on June 24, 2011, 10:44:00 AM
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/discover_pass_statewide_dnr_locations.pdf (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/discover_pass_statewide_dnr_locations.pdf)
Post by: whacker1 on June 24, 2011, 11:02:18 AM
Post by: seth30 on June 24, 2011, 11:08:41 AM
I dislike the idea of the Discover Pass as much as the next guy and the fact that we need one for each vehicle is a crock , but if people keep voting for Tim Eyman's anti-tax initiatives, then user fees are what we will get. Let's face it, it takes money to maintain public lands. There are road and building maintenance costs, construction costs, patrol/enforcement costs, etc. How exactly we expect to fund those costs? Magic?where is all the funding going from us purchasing our tags :dunno:
Post by: whacker1 on June 24, 2011, 11:12:49 AM
I dislike the idea of the Discover Pass as much as the next guy and the fact that we need one for each vehicle is a crock , but if people keep voting for Tim Eyman's anti-tax initiatives, then user fees are what we will get. Let's face it, it takes money to maintain public lands. There are road and building maintenance costs, construction costs, patrol/enforcement costs, etc. How exactly we expect to fund those costs? Magic?
You forgot entitlement programs & costs of beauracracy
Post by: Machias on June 24, 2011, 01:18:04 PM
I dislike the idea of the Discover Pass as much as the next guy and the fact that we need one for each vehicle is a crock , but if people keep voting for Tim Eyman's anti-tax initiatives, then user fees are what we will get. Let's face it, it takes money to maintain public lands. There are road and building maintenance costs, construction costs, patrol/enforcement costs, etc. How exactly we expect to fund those costs? Magic?
I have to respectfully say :bs: . It's NOT a revenue problem it's a spending problem....... SPENDING problem!!!! Not a Revenue problem. Stop spending more then you take in, in fact cut out the waste and the :bs: programs and you don't need to raise additional taxes.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 24, 2011, 02:38:43 PM
Post by: Machias on June 24, 2011, 03:08:47 PM
Q. What is the penalty for not having a Discover Pass on my vehicle?
A. The penalty is $99. This penalty is reduced to $59 if an individual provides proof of purchase of the Discover Pass to the court within 15 days after the notice of violation.
Post by: Machias on June 24, 2011, 03:13:05 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 24, 2011, 03:17:33 PM
Post by: DeerThug on June 24, 2011, 05:47:16 PM
So suck more money out of the economy to give it to a brother - that is the mind set that has created this mess in the first place.
So cut education funding and then allow WSU to raise tuition 20% with that 20% reserved to fund free education...
I am sick of the redistribution...
Post by: Alan K on June 24, 2011, 05:51:52 PM
Post by: Curly on June 24, 2011, 05:59:40 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 24, 2011, 07:01:25 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on June 24, 2011, 07:08:14 PM
Post by: Curly on June 24, 2011, 07:34:29 PM
A. Yes. Unless you are exempt from pass requirements (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/), the pass is required anytime your vehicle is on state recreation lands managed by WDFW, DNR or State Parks. The pass is not required on roads managed by other jurisdictions, such as state highways or county roads that may pass through recreation lands.
I guess it depends on if the brush pickers fall under the exemptions....... :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on June 24, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
Quote
Exemptions to the Discover Pass
Updated: June 20, 2011
Your purchase of the Discover Pass supports recreation on state lands. However, you do not need to purchase the pass under the certain circumstances. Download the "Do I need a Discover Pass? (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/Do%20I%20need%20a%20Discover%20Pass.pdf)" chart (92KB PDF) or read the following information about exemptions to the Discover Pass:
Please note: Even though the pass is not required in these cases, your purchase helps to maintain, manage and operate state recreation lands. As funding for recreation shifts from tax support to user fees, the responsibility to cover the costs of these exemptions will shift from the general public to visitors. You also may continue to donate to Washington State Parks when you register a vehicle through the Department of Licensing.
- Camping in a Washington state park: Your camping reservation stub or camping fee receipt will serve as your permit for the duration of your stay in the park where you have paid for a campsite, vacation house, environmental learning center, yurt or cabin. If you visit other state parks in the area, you will need an annual or daily Discover Pass. You will need a pass if you are camping on lands managed by the Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).
- Hunting and fishing on WDFW-managed lands. The Discover Pass is not required for holders of certain hunting and fishing licenses on WDFW recreation lands and water-access sites. For those individuals, a "WDFW vehicle access pass" will be required for vehicle access to WDFW lands and boat launches. WDFW will honor WDFW vehicle use permits that were purchased prior to July 1, 2011, on WDFW lands through March 31, 2012.
Those license holders will need a Discover Pass to access DNR-managed lands that are developed or designated as recreation areas, sites, trailheads and parking areas. Signs will be posted in these areas. License holders will not need a Discover Pass to access small blocks of undesignated DNR-managed lands.
For vehicle access to lands managed by State Parks, all hunters or fishers will need to purchase the Discover Pass. As a reminder, hunting is not allowed on State Parks lands.
Note: The vehicle access pass is valid for the license's year (April 1 through March 31) and is issued free of charge with an individual's initial purchase of a big-game or small-game hunting license, western Washington pheasant permit, trapping license, Watchable Wildlife decal, or saltwater, freshwater or combination recreational fishing license.- Sno-Park seasonal permit holders: You do not need a Discover Pass to use a designated Sno-Park between Nov. 1 and March 31 for winter recreation activities. The Sno-Park (http://www.parks.wa.gov/winter/trails/) permit exception does not apply to non-winter recreation activities.
- Off-Road Vehicle (ORVs): If your ORV is required to display an ORV tab, you do not need a Discover Pass for that vehicle. Generally, ORVs are non-street-legal vehicles. You will need a Discover Pass for the street-legal vehicle that transports your ORV to a state recreation site. The trailer does not require a pass. Street-licensed vehicles, such as dual-sport motorcycles or four-wheel-drive vehicles, will be required to display a pass.
- Disabled veterans and other State Parks pass holders: Washington State Parks offers pass programs (http://www.parks.wa.gov/passes/) that reduce or waive camping, moorage and watercraft launch fees for limited-income senior citizens, disabled veterans, foster parents and people with disabilities who qualify for and receive a pass. These pass holders are not required to display the Discover Pass while visiting state parks but are required to display the Discover Pass while on WDFW or DNR lands. While on state park land, display your State Parks free or reduced pass on your dashboard in lieu of the Discover Pass.
- State Parks boat launch sites. You will not need a Discover Pass to launch your boat from a State Parks boat launch if you have the annual Natural Investment Permit. You will need the Discover Pass for boat launches managed by DNR and WDFW and in a state park using a daily launch permit.
- Volunteers. Volunteers who work 24 hours or more on agency-approved projects are eligible for a complimentary Discover Pass.
- Those with certain written agreements with agencies. Individuals with leases, easements, and other contracts may not need a Discover Pass if their contract with the agency specifically exempts them from the pass. The agencies are analyzing their existing contracts to determine which ones provide exemptions from the Discover Pass requirement.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 24, 2011, 08:37:55 PM
Ok for those that have commented - why do we have to give the govt more money. The state government does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. And this is not going to raise enough to amount to anything.:tup: Amen brother....
So suck more money out of the economy to give it to a brother - that is the mind set that has created this mess in the first place.
So cut education funding and then allow WSU to raise tuition 20% with that 20% reserved to fund free education...
I am sick of the redistribution...
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on June 25, 2011, 08:12:25 AM
User fees huh....
As funding for recreation shifts from tax support to user fees, the responsibility to cover the costs of these exemptions will shift from the general public to visitors.
So now should we require neighborhoods where Bear are moved at DFW expense to help pay? Why not? User fee
You also may continue to donate to Washington State Parks when you register a vehicle through the Department of Licensing.
How is it said?
When the government robs Peter to pay Paul, it can always rely on support from Paul. What happens when there are too many Pauls?
Post by: dreamingbig on June 29, 2011, 05:55:01 PM
Guys,
Just to add reality to this dicussion, the actual price of the Discover Pass will be $35.00 after you add in dealer and transaction fees. This to me makes it just that much harder to swallow.
I have heard the non hunting crowd complaining about the extra $5 the state snuck in as well. Apparently the NW forest service pass is sold to dealers at $27 and they get to sell it for $30 to cover their costs. It sounds like they were expecting the discover pass to be similar but it wasn't rolled out that way. They are buying them for $30 and get to sell them for $35 to cover their costs. I can't see $5 of costs in it even if it is purchased with a credit card. Interesting none the less. I don't think I have to buy one this year and probably won't every year.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on June 30, 2011, 10:07:49 AM
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov (http://wdfw.wa.gov)
July 2011
Contacts: (Fish) 360-902-2700
(Wildlife) 360-902-2515
July brings waves of salmon,
and new state Discover Pass
Salmon fishing kicks into high gear at this time of year, when the Washington coast, several areas of Puget Sound and many rivers around the state are open for business. Most areas of Puget Sound also open for recreational crabbing July 1, setting the stage for a great Independence Day weekend.
Also starting July 1, many anglers and others planning outdoor adventures will need to purchase a Discover Pass for vehicle access to state parks, campgrounds, boat launches and wildlife areas. The new requirement, approved this year by the state Legislature, is designed to help keep 7 million acres of state recreational lands open after steep budget cuts.
"The Discover Pass allows state natural-resource agencies to maintain public access to millions of acres of state recreation lands," said Phil Anderson, director of the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). "Sport fishers and hunters have traditionally supported WDFW wildlife areas and water access sites through their license fees; now all who enjoy these lands will share in their support."
A Discover Pass will generally be required for vehicle access to recreation lands and water-access sites managed by WDFW, the Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission and the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR). The fine for not displaying the pass is $99.
However, some exemptions apply to the new requirement. For example, holders of most annual fishing and hunting licenses will not be required to purchase a Discover Pass to use WDFW lands and water-access sites. Information about exemptions and other aspects of the pass is available at http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/ (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/) or by calling 1-866-320-9933.
An annual Discover Pass costs $35, when purchased from WDFW online ( https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/ (https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/) ) or by phone (1-866-320-9933) or from license vendors around the state. A one-day pass is also available for $11.50.
In addition, State Parks will sell the passes July 1-3 at its Olympia headquarters and at its Burlington and East Wenatchee regional offices in preparation for the Fourth of July weekend. The passes also will be sold at state park sites where staff is available.
Meanwhile, those afield on the Fourth of July and the rest of the month are asked to be careful not to spark a wildfire. Despite the delayed arrival of summer weather, wildfire danger is growing with warmer, drier weather, especially in eastern Washington.
DNR has banned burning from July through September in forested areas of the state. That means that campfires are allowed only in approved fire pits within designated state, county, municipal or other campgrounds. The use of gas and propane self-contained stoves and barbeques is allowed. For more information, see DNR’s website at http://1.usa.gov/jpjiZO (http://1.usa.gov/jpjiZO) .
WDFW’s own public conduct rules for wildlife areas and water access sites prohibit discharging of fireworks at any time.
For more information about fishing, hunting and wildlife viewing available this month, see the Weekender Regional Reports posted on WDFW’s website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/weekender/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/weekender/) . These reports are updated throughout the month to provide up-to-date information about recreational opportunities around the state.
How much would they spend to TRY to close it?
The new requirement, approved this year by the state Legislature, is designed to help keep 7 million acres of state recreational lands open after steep budget cuts.
Post by: Elkrunner on June 30, 2011, 10:17:56 AM
I'm thinking the brush pickers won't need it because they already have to have a special permit for picking brush.What is a brush picker? Is that similar to a carpet muncher? :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on June 30, 2011, 10:28:35 AM
I'm thinking the brush pickers won't need it because they already have to have a special permit for picking brush.What is a brush picker? Is that similar to a carpet muncher? :chuckle:
You obviously haven't spent any time in Capitol Forest.
Post by: Klyne3 on June 30, 2011, 10:40:22 AM
So if they are finally giving back the ORV funds does that mean that they are going to open up more riding area's or reopen reiter pit?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 30, 2011, 10:43:05 AM
Post by: bigtex on June 30, 2011, 01:33:24 PM
bigtex,
So if they are finally giving back the ORV funds does that mean that they are going to open up more riding area's or reopen reiter pit?
Well I don't know a whole lot about the NOVA funds. I would expect that the areas that were closed after the shifting of the funds would be reopened. I do know that there will be an increase in enforcement of ORV areas, atleast to what they were before the shifting of the funds. Most sheriff's offices that have ORV areas do get enforcement money from NOVA funds and when the shifting of funds happened the counties either had to fund the ORV patrols on their own or completely eliminate them. So now that the money is back the patrols will begin again.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 01, 2011, 08:45:22 AM
Post by: Wazukie on July 01, 2011, 11:25:13 PM
Post by: logger on July 02, 2011, 11:22:28 AM
Going to be interesting to see how they manage enforcing this pass where I live. It will also be interesting to see how the locals do with all this considering 90% of them have to drive through DNR designated recreation area's on a daily basis.I wouldn't take that bet for nothin, my guess would be the husum boy's have bigger fish to fry so I don't think enforcement is gonna be a big issue.And I'm damn sure they aren't gonna mess with the locals.
Post by: Wazukie on July 02, 2011, 01:31:20 PM
Post by: bullcanyon on July 03, 2011, 02:03:13 PM
Just too bad that our elected officials can't function with accountability. They spent like someone that was getting unlimited overtime and now barely getting their 40 in..... I don't mind paying for something that I use. But I honestly feel like I've already paid my fair share to utilize what this pass gives me access to.
What exactly was the role of government again?.........
Post by: bigtex on July 03, 2011, 06:40:17 PM
Maybe I missed it, but who gets the money from the fines that will be written? Can't be the g fund......
In regards to the funds from the fines. There are three different RCW's that are applicable for this violation, one for DNR lands, one for WDFW lands and the other for Park lands.
The fines from DNR and Park lands will go the state general fund just like every other DNR or Park violation.
For WDFW all fines that are for violations of RCW 77 (the fish and wildlife code) including this pass either get directed to the county where the ticket was written OR the state general fund. Counties can either retain the funds from RCW 77 violations or they can give those funds to the state general fund and if this happens then WDFW gives Payments In-Lieu of Taxes (PILT) for the lands WDFW owns within the county. So if counties keep the RCW 77 funds they don't get PILT payments, if they give the money to the state they get PILT money. Every year about 30 counties elect to give the RCW 77 money to the state and receive PILT payments.
So the easy answer is just about all the money from the fines will go into the state general fund. There is only about 10 or so counties which usually keep RCW 77 fine money and those are the counties that will get to keep the fines from this violation, and only the violations on WDFW lands.
Post by: bigtex on July 03, 2011, 06:42:59 PM
Don't really think it will be much of a problem though as there isnt really any enforcement officers out this way.
I thought I would bring this up in regards to DNR enforcement.
DNR has less then 10 armed enforcement officers to cover the state. HOWEVER DNR has about 70 or so limited commissioned employees which can write certain DNR tickets, including this violation. So for DNR areas it will not only be the armed DNR Officers writing tickets, but also also unarmed DNR employees. The USFS also has similar roles of unarmed limited authority employees who write tickets.
Post by: Wazukie on July 03, 2011, 10:06:39 PM
Post by: fair-chase on July 03, 2011, 10:23:01 PM
I guess all of you who like to hunt King Mountain in the West Klick. better get you pass cause from what I can tell fron the map, it's all been designated DNR recreation area. Going to be interesting to see how it all pans out.
If that's the case I will be parking inside the rez gate and walking back. I'm so fed up with this money grab I will try to find any legal way around it.
Post by: logger on July 03, 2011, 10:30:54 PM
Post by: Wazukie on July 03, 2011, 10:42:39 PM
Well wazukie, I have a hancock gate key I guess we can park just on the other side of the gate. All bsing aside I don't think enforcement in klickitat county is gonna be a issue, Our dnr guys live here and I don't think this hits their radar at all. :twocents:LOL, I agree, I usually park on Hancock land anyway.
Post by: logger on July 03, 2011, 11:08:34 PM
Post by: nocklehead on July 03, 2011, 11:51:07 PM
When your kids ask why you need this new pass to hunt where you always have say, "it helps maintain the land and protect our freedoms".
Wanna take an airplane to grandmas house for christmas? When your kid asks why you allowed them to be photographed naked, radiated, and then touched in thier genitals by a cross-eyed stranger, say "it helps maintain our country and protect our freedom".
Hey atleast we dont fill the check out DIRECTLY to Goldman Sachs or the IMF....not YET!!!
Post by: BENCHLEG on July 05, 2011, 06:48:51 PM
Post by: logger on July 05, 2011, 09:26:35 PM
Post by: BENCHLEG on July 06, 2011, 11:28:37 AM
Post by: CP on July 06, 2011, 11:40:17 AM
If we all ignore it maybe it will go the way of the Federal boat sticker that they came out with many seasons ago.
Post by: Special T on July 06, 2011, 01:54:08 PM
Post by: CP on July 06, 2011, 02:31:09 PM
What was the story on the FED boat sticker? never heard of it...
It was repealed after a lot of public outrage. Here’s an old Seattle PI article on it:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910710&slug=1293708 (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910710&slug=1293708)
Post by: Little Dave on July 06, 2011, 05:05:11 PM
If the state has more properties than it can afford to manage, it should sell them. Let somebody else manage them and provide a valuation that reflects loss of use because of regulations... or keep them, put them back into production and capture royalties from the sustainable use of the land, create jobs.
The state should measure success by fostering the creation of natural resource jobs and eliminating taxes rather than eliminating natural resource jobs and creating new taxes with much celebration and self-congratulation.
Post by: danderson on July 06, 2011, 08:12:27 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on July 06, 2011, 09:10:08 PM
Im so confused, let me see, I need a northwest forest pass for parking at trailheads, a car parking permit to park at wdfw boat launches, a snow park permit for parking at snow parks, and now a discover pass to drive on DNR land, how are all these permits fees going to help pay for anything, the cost of enforcment will exceed income.
It doesn't sound like you are confused to me.... Aggravating isn't it?
Post by: fireweed on July 08, 2011, 07:50:31 AM
Post by: d-rock on July 08, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
BUT it's not. It's another way to confuse and regulate and make extra money that is going...well nowhere, just seems to vanish. It's a scam and people will either take it or not. Just imagine how many more of the asinine things will be around in another 20 years. How many were here 20 years ago? Breathing Public Air Pass here we come.
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on July 08, 2011, 02:30:23 PM
If it was anything more than a money grab they would say OK here is the Discover Pass. All other passes will go away. This is to SIMPLIFY things and reduce all the confusion. Hunters and Fishermen will have a reduction in their License fees (as they no longer need their parking permits) and the guys who hike and snowmobile and ORV throughout the year won't have to pay for each season that they are using State (PUBLIC....) land to play on.
BUT it's not. It's another way to confuse and regulate and make extra money that is going...well nowhere, just seems to vanish. It's a scam and people will either take it or not. Just imagine how many more of the asinine things will be around in another 20 years. How many were here 20 years ago? Breathing Public Air Pass here we come.
Pay up you owe $20 for a b%^ and whine pass. :chuckle:
Look a Demolition man and the automatic tickets. We all laughed and thought it was rediculous.
Post by: nocklehead on July 09, 2011, 07:40:40 AM
Breathing Public Air Pass here we come.
Oh, you mean carbon taxes? Oxygen is free, exhaling it now theres an issue. :o
Post by: Little Dave on July 09, 2011, 08:31:39 AM
Tim Hawkins - The Government Can (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0#ws)
Post by: Jburke on July 09, 2011, 06:20:18 PM
My wife isn't really enthusiastic about the pass. She thought she was coverered by the complimentary parking pass that came with our son's hunting license. I explained how this works. I think that I have pretty much convinced her of the urgency to throw out of office the people that came up with this concept and how easily these shallow and apparently stupid people might damage any other aspect of our life or liberty by their inability or negligence.:yeah:
If the state has more properties than it can afford to manage, it should sell them. Let somebody else manage them and provide a valuation that reflects loss of use because of regulations... or keep them, put them back into production and capture royalties from the sustainable use of the land, create jobs.
The state should measure success by fostering the creation of natural resource jobs and eliminating taxes rather than eliminating natural resource jobs and creating new taxes with much celebration and self-congratulation.
You my friend are smarter than our elected officials. Can we get a campaign going for this man? We should be able to get enough support to at least have this ridiculous pass thrown down the crapper where it belongs.
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 11, 2011, 06:25:12 PM
Stupid Me!!
I called Colville today to ask about this. They confirmed that the pass is only good for one vehicle and they plate number needs to be wrote in the box in ink. I asked about the fact that I could be operating any one of 4 differant rigs. Reply was you will need to purchase a pass for each.
Told them I can only drive one at a time. I asked if I had purchased the pass didn't that cover the permit. Nope! Told them even the WDFG pass gives me 2 vehicle choices. Was told right now they are just in an info stage to let the folks know. I guess that now I'm going to have to get the pass I may also get my day in court!
Just a heads up to people with more than one rig.
Post by: bobcat on July 11, 2011, 06:33:30 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 11, 2011, 06:45:06 PM
Yep. I have been complaining about that on here for a couple of months now. I also have four vehicles. How do I choose which one I want the Discover pass for? I'm sure not going to pay $35 for all four vehicles, that would be $140. So, I've decided that instead, I will buy ZERO passes, and I will just avoid driving onto state land.
It's not just State land it applies to DNR lands according to Colville DNR office.
Post by: bigtex on July 11, 2011, 06:54:29 PM
Yep. I have been complaining about that on here for a couple of months now. I also have four vehicles. How do I choose which one I want the Discover pass for? I'm sure not going to pay $35 for all four vehicles, that would be $140. So, I've decided that instead, I will buy ZERO passes, and I will just avoid driving onto state land.
It's not just State land it applies to DNR lands according to Colville DNR office.
DNR land is state
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 11, 2011, 06:57:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 11, 2011, 07:40:26 PM
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx)
Post by: gator626 on July 14, 2011, 02:36:47 PM
Post by: washelkhntr on July 14, 2011, 02:42:57 PM
its people like you is why the rest of us take it in the shorts you just stand back and let the government control you instead of standind up and doing the right things saying enough is enough why should we pay for it all let them start putting their money where there mouths are
It is people like who? Pretty brazen post . . .
:twocents:
Post by: Special T on July 14, 2011, 03:22:13 PM
Post by: seth30 on July 14, 2011, 03:44:00 PM
its people like you is why the rest of us take it in the shorts you just stand back and let the government control you instead of standind up and doing the right things saying enough is enough why should we pay for it all let them start putting their money where there mouths are:bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :bdid:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 14, 2011, 04:03:47 PM
its people like you is why the rest of us take it in the shorts you just stand back and let the government control you instead of standind up and doing the right things saying enough is enough why should we pay for it all let them start putting their money where there mouths areWho are you refirring too ??
Post by: bobcat on July 14, 2011, 04:17:00 PM
its people like you is why the rest of us take it in the shorts you just stand back and let the government control you instead of standind up and doing the right things saying enough is enough why should we pay for it all let them start putting their money where there mouths areWho are you refirring too ??
:yeah:
Post by: gator626 on July 14, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
Post by: Tbar on July 14, 2011, 05:29:53 PM
Post by: gator626 on July 14, 2011, 06:42:12 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 14, 2011, 06:55:58 PM
thats his name
Okay?????????
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 14, 2011, 07:02:24 PM
Why is everyone so upset about a $30 pass to access DNR "recreation lands"? DNR land provides you with a place to hunt, fish, camp, berry pick, cut firewood, or just relax and go for a drive. You spend more than that taking the family out to dinner or going to the movies, and those activities only last a couple of hours! If you want to be upset about something be upset that DNR is only getting $2.55 per pass! How many of you can go hunting in State Parks? How about this for a question, when the morons rut up the roads, dump garbage, shoot up trees on DNR land is that recreation? If you camp on DNR land where there are not facilities, are you not doing it for recreation? I'm sure no one on this forum would leave a mess when they camp away from designated campsites. But it does happen so who should pay for that? It seems that there are no free rides any more and if I have to pay to access some of our state trust lands then I am willing. And as a point of clarification, DNR land is not "public land" even if that is what the commissioners title is. DNR land is state trust land that provides money to it's trust beneficiaries, like schools, colleges, and state capital.
Last post got me thinking........... this is from about page 4
THERE you go Guys.... another one poster
# *
# Posts: 1
# Location: Eastern Washington
Maybe we should give Gator a break.
Although Extremist hit THIS one dead ON!
"If you want to be upset about something be upset that DNR is only getting $2.55 per pass! How many of you can go hunting in State Parks? "
Post by: bobcat on July 14, 2011, 07:06:54 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 14, 2011, 07:14:30 PM
Post by: bosshogg112 on July 14, 2011, 08:04:04 PM
By the way, the DNR website has some new maps up that show where it is required:so is it only the green areas on the maps that it is required to have the pass???
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx)
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on July 14, 2011, 08:06:16 PM
I think the reason they came up with the higher percentage of the money going to State Parks, is that they assume the majority of people buying the pass will be using it mainly for accessing State Parks. It would make sense, if 84% of the passes purchased were purchased by people who only go to state parks. Most people don't hunt or fish, and many of those people may have no reason to ever access DNR or WDFW lands. If that is true, then State Parks would deserve to get the majority of the money.
The explaination that I read was Parks took the biggest funding cut so they needed more money than the other 2 agencies. But if you read the bill after they make 71 million every biennium they get to split the funds evenly. The counter resets to 0 in 2013.
Post by: bigtex on July 14, 2011, 08:09:20 PM
By the way, the DNR website has some new maps up that show where it is required:so is it only the green areas on the maps that it is required to have the pass???
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx (http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx)
Yes, and the red dots. The dark green areas are recreation areas. Light green are DNR natural areas. Red dots are recreation facilites and trailheads.
If the DNR land is not shown on the map then at this time the pass is not required.
Post by: Curly on July 15, 2011, 07:49:43 AM
I'd rather they would have had separate passes..........one for DNR lands, one for Parks, and one for WDFW (which we already had anyway when buying a hunting license). When I used to launch at State Parks a lot, I had a Parks Launch permit that was vinyl and stuck to the windshield........seems like they could have converted the launch permit to include access to Park lands. So the only agency that didn't already have a permit was DNR........they should have been the only one to have a new access pass; and if they were the only one then it sounds like the price could have been under $5.
But this whole thing is not about access to DNR or WDFW lands. It is about saving State Parks and they are using other user groups to pay for Parks. They must have mis-managed State Parks so bad that they can't afford to run them anymore. Maybe they should get rid of the Park Rangers (or most of them)........private parks are not closing down. The difference between private parks and State Parks is private parks rely on county law enforcement officers and State Parks have Rangers..........that is the only difference I can see. :twocents:
Post by: gator626 on July 15, 2011, 08:09:16 AM
Post by: fireweed on July 15, 2011, 08:18:04 AM
But this whole thing is not about access to DNR or WDFW lands. It is about saving State Parks and they are using other user groups to pay for Parks. They must have mis-managed State Parks so bad that they can't afford to run them anymore. Maybe they should get rid of the Park Rangers (or most of them)........private parks are not closing down. The difference between private parks and State Parks is private parks rely on county law enforcement officers and State Parks have Rangers..........that is the only difference I can see. :twocents:
[/quote]
Doing the Math (It's been awhile so check it for me), it looks like the VENDORS get more out of this pass that the DNR and WDFW combined. VENDORS get up to $5 for each pass. 8% of $30 is $2.40 which is what DNR and WDFW get EACH. Leaving $25.20 for Parks. This just ain't right folks.
Post by: Curly on July 15, 2011, 08:28:38 AM
The other thing I was thinking about..........isn't WDFW going to be getting the short end of the stick? People won't need to buy the WDFW parking pass anymore (since they will be getting the Discover Pass) and WDFW will make far less on the Discover Pass than they did with the parking permit.
Post by: bigtex on July 15, 2011, 08:41:38 AM
[
But this whole thing is not about access to DNR or WDFW lands. It is about saving State Parks and they are using other user groups to pay for Parks. They must have mis-managed State Parks so bad that they can't afford to run them anymore. Maybe they should get rid of the Park Rangers (or most of them)........private parks are not closing down. The difference between private parks and State Parks is private parks rely on county law enforcement officers and State Parks have Rangers..........that is the only difference I can see. :twocents:
Doing the Math (It's been awhile so check it for me), it looks like the VENDORS get more out of this pass that the DNR and WDFW combined. VENDORS get up to $5 for each pass. 8% of $30 is $2.40 which is what DNR and WDFW get EACH. Leaving $25.20 for Parks. This just ain't right folks.
[/quote]
That is false.
Vendors (the stores that sell the pass) get $2
Transaction fees (the licensing company) get $3
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 15, 2011, 08:51:43 AM
But it is true that a outside contractor gets more than either of the red headed step children,right?
Somewhere (on here I believe) I read that if you actually go to a state puke and buy one it only cost you the basic $30.
Post by: bigtex on July 15, 2011, 08:54:00 AM
Somewhere (on here I believe) I read that if you actually go to a state puke and buy one it only cost you the basic $30.
As far as I know if you buy it directly from a Park the vendor fee's are waived but the transaction fee's still apply. It may be the other way but I am almost positive that the vendor fees are the ones that don't apply.
Post by: bobcat on July 15, 2011, 09:17:03 AM
Quote
Q. How much does the Discover Pass cost?
A. An annual Discover Pass purchased from a recreational license dealer, by phone or online costs $35, which includes the $30 base fee, a 10 percent transaction fee and a $2 dealer fee. A one-day Discover Pass costs $11.50, which includes the $10 base fee, a 10 percent transaction fee and a 50-cent dealer fee. The annual pass is good for one year from purchase date.
Q. Why are transaction and dealer fees charged to purchase a Discover Pass?
A. The Discover Pass is sold through 600 retail stores, online and by phone, using the automated licensing system that also sells Washington sport fishing and hunting licenses. The 10 percent transaction fee on each purchase pays for computer system development and maintenance, dealer sales terminals and supplies, customer service, dealer training and support, financial accounting and reporting of sales transactions. The $2 dealer fee on each transaction is paid to retail outlets that sell the Discover Pass or to offset the costs associated with Internet and telephone sales, including processing of credit card sales, postage and staff time to print and mail the pass documents to those who have purchased the pass online or by phone.
Other purchasing options will be available, including purchasing the pass in park offices and in parks as staff is available, by July 1. In the fall, people will be able to purchase the pass when renewing vehicle license tabs. These two options will not have transaction fees.