Post by: Nilehunter on August 23, 2011, 08:25:42 PM
There will be a meeting held September 1st at the library on the Nile RD. The WDFW will be discussing whats going on with the hunting by these tribes in the area. I saw a posting at the Woodshed this last weekend. I believe the time is 7pm.
:bfg:
Post by: adamR on August 23, 2011, 08:46:27 PM
Post by: Nilehunter on August 23, 2011, 08:50:36 PM
Will you be attending?
Post by: adamR on August 23, 2011, 08:52:47 PM
Post by: sled on August 23, 2011, 09:09:29 PM
Post by: butcher98951 on August 23, 2011, 09:11:42 PM
Forgive me if this has been posted already.
There will be a meeting held September 1st at the library on the Nile RD. The WDFW will be discussing whats going on with the hunting by these tribes in the area. I saw a posting at the Woodshed this last weekend. I believe the time is 7pm.
:bfg:
It does not matter what you or anyone talk about it is ceded land and they will hunt it....
Post by: Nilehunter on August 23, 2011, 09:21:50 PM
Forgive me if this has been posted already.
There will be a meeting held September 1st at the library on the Nile RD. The WDFW will be discussing whats going on with the hunting by these tribes in the area. I saw a posting at the Woodshed this last weekend. I believe the time is 7pm.
:bfg:
It does not matter what you or anyone talk about it is ceded land and they will hunt it....
Well yea, I get that it is most likely an informational meeting. But there obviously has been enough unhappy people to warrant a meeting and that is a start.
Post by: butcher98951 on August 23, 2011, 09:26:56 PM
Yes you a right but i went to the wdfw and the tribal game wardens and was told the same thing it is ceded land the meeting is to please the people not the cause.. good luck and sorry for you on wasting your time...Forgive me if this has been posted already.
There will be a meeting held September 1st at the library on the Nile RD. The WDFW will be discussing whats going on with the hunting by these tribes in the area. I saw a posting at the Woodshed this last weekend. I believe the time is 7pm.
:bfg:
It does not matter what you or anyone talk about it is ceded land and they will hunt it....
Well yea, I get that it is most likely an informational meeting. But there obviously has been enough unhappy people to warrant a meeting and that is a start.
Post by: Nilehunter on August 23, 2011, 09:30:08 PM
Well if nothing else it will give me a reaoson to get out of Seattle and over to the cabin. Either way its win win.Yes you a right but i went to the wdfw and the tribal game wardens and was told the same thing it is ceded land the meeting is to please the people not the cause.. good luck and sorry for you on wasting your time...Forgive me if this has been posted already.
There will be a meeting held September 1st at the library on the Nile RD. The WDFW will be discussing whats going on with the hunting by these tribes in the area. I saw a posting at the Woodshed this last weekend. I believe the time is 7pm.
:bfg:
It does not matter what you or anyone talk about it is ceded land and they will hunt it....
Well yea, I get that it is most likely an informational meeting. But there obviously has been enough unhappy people to warrant a meeting and that is a start.
Post by: PlateauNDN on August 24, 2011, 09:10:00 AM
Post by: adamR on August 24, 2011, 09:02:16 PM
Yes you a right but i went to the wdfw and the tribal game wardens and was told the same thing it is ceded land the meeting is to please the people not the cause.. good luck and sorry for you on wasting your time...Forgive me if this has been posted already.
There will be a meeting held September 1st at the library on the Nile RD. The WDFW will be discussing whats going on with the hunting by these tribes in the area. I saw a posting at the Woodshed this last weekend. I believe the time is 7pm.
:bfg:
It does not matter what you or anyone talk about it is ceded land and they will hunt it....
Well yea, I get that it is most likely an informational meeting. But there obviously has been enough unhappy people to warrant a meeting and that is a start.
man I love your attitude on this!!! it's to bad you weren't there to tell our forefather's that it wasn't worth it to have a revolution, things could be so different!!! we need more people to not care about anything and not stand up for what they believe in
:bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: norsepeak on September 01, 2011, 09:28:51 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on September 02, 2011, 05:55:26 AM
Post by: colockumelk on September 02, 2011, 06:03:34 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 02, 2011, 06:21:25 AM
Post by: jackmaster on September 02, 2011, 06:49:12 AM
I just sat back too and watched some people get mad. I thought it was great that the residents did give respect to the Yakama's when they were up front. 4 elk 2 bulls, 2 cows and 2 bucks, 2 does are allowed which I thought was great. I was thinking maybe the muckleshoots can hunt on hanford and not hunt up in are units up here. That is a point that I want to see happen.i might be misunderstanding you but are you saying you would like to see the mucks be able to hunt hanford, and if so why? i think if anyone should get to hunt hanford it should be the youth hunters...
Post by: Huntbear on September 02, 2011, 06:50:44 AM
Or why don't they just gate off the road and give only a key to the residents like the residents wanted. This way you are not taking any rights or opportunities away from the Yakamas you are just forcing them to access the area like their ancestors did. On Foot!!!! The Treaty said they have the right to hunt all their ceded land. I don't see anything in the treaty that says the WDFW or DNR can't lock gates blocking vehicle access to the ceded land. A gate doesn't mean they can't hunt it, it just means that they will actually have to work for their harvest. :yike:
Not sure most of em would know how to hike in, then actually have to pack out the whole kill, one trip at a time.. like all of us do.... oh wait, that is right, they get special privileges, that we do not get.... dumb ass me.... sorry guys...
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 02, 2011, 08:56:21 AM
Or why don't they just gate off the road and give only a key to the residents like the residents wanted. This way you are not taking any rights or opportunities away from the Yakamas you are just forcing them to access the area like their ancestors did. On Foot!!!! The Treaty said they have the right to hunt all their ceded land. I don't see anything in the treaty that says the WDFW or DNR can't lock gates blocking vehicle access to the ceded land. A gate doesn't mean they can't hunt it, it just means that they will actually have to work for their harvest. :yike:
Not sure most of em would know how to hike in, then actually have to pack out the whole kill, one trip at a time.. like all of us do.... oh wait, that is right, they get special privileges, that we do not get.... dumb ass me.... sorry guys...
You're right most of them probably wouldn't know how to hike in, I for one would support a gate there to solve the issue of easy access. And unfortunately I'm one of the Indians that does know how to hike in and pack out so it's a plus for me when you eliminate the easy access for the lazy road hunters.
Post by: colockumelk on September 02, 2011, 11:51:45 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on September 02, 2011, 12:12:23 PM
Post by: norsepeak on September 02, 2011, 02:41:55 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 02, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
That's the problem most of them don't and they don't care to educate themselves about it. I agree some signs should be posted and I'm not defending those Indians for not reading our regs. but it would be more ammo for L.E. when they catch somebody violating the regs.
Again, the PR didn't help any either. Just as Yak-NDN stated I'm hearing more and more natives are trying to venture out to new areas and they don't know S#%t about the area but because they seen it on the news they want to try it out. I had a buddy tell me he read some Yakamas are going to start becoming "Ceded Land Warriors" because the news told them where they can find deer and elk.
More undue tension on an already over-strained situation.
Post by: dreamunelk on September 02, 2011, 09:09:57 PM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
That's the problem most of them don't and they don't care to educate themselves about it. I agree some signs should be posted and I'm not defending those Indians for not reading our regs. but it would be more ammo for L.E. when they catch somebody violating the regs.
Again, the PR didn't help any either. Just as Yak-NDN stated I'm hearing more and more natives are trying to venture out to new areas and they don't know S#%t about the area but because they seen it on the news they want to try it out. I had a buddy tell me he read some Yakamas are going to start becoming "Ceded Land Warriors" because the news told them where they can find deer and elk.
More undue tension on an already over-strained situation.
A gate doesn't mean they can't hunt it, it just means that they will actually have to work for their harvest. :yike:
Not sure most of em would know how to hike in, then actually have to pack out the whole kill, one trip at a time.. like all of us do.... oh wait, that is right, they get special privileges, that we do not get.... dumb ass me.... sorry guys...
You're right most of them probably wouldn't know how to hike in, I for one would support a gate there to solve the issue of easy access. And unfortunately I'm one of the Indians that does know how to hike in and pack out so it's a plus for me when you eliminate the easy access for the lazy road hunters.
Anyone else see the irony here? Just take out the tribal reference and we could very well be talking about many state hunters. I know not really the topic but, Just thought it was interesting that we have some of the same problems!
Post by: colockumelk on September 02, 2011, 09:20:45 PM
Post by: BENCHLEG on September 02, 2011, 09:55:26 PM
Post by: doyourtime89 on September 06, 2011, 12:05:19 PM
Post by: firefighter4607 on September 06, 2011, 12:33:34 PM
I totally agree with the technology thing. I have been saying that for years as far as the indians gill netting all the rivers around here. When they did it because they needed to, they didn't have gill nets set from one side of the river to the other, they weren't doing it in big boats with outboard motors. If they want to take wildlife they should have to do it like they used to.
:yeah: I will not say anymore :bash: :bash:
Post by: FC on September 06, 2011, 12:53:38 PM
I totally agree with the technology thing. I have been saying that for years as far as the indians gill netting all the rivers around here. When they did it because they needed to, they didn't have gill nets set from one side of the river to the other, they weren't doing it in big boats with outboard motors. If they want to take wildlife they should have to do it like they used to.
Agreed.
Post by: Nilehunter on September 06, 2011, 03:37:34 PM
Was anything discussed about what if anything, these tribes contribute to conservation and or wildlife management? That is another side to this discussion. Are we paying all the bills?
Post by: Yak-NDN on September 07, 2011, 09:43:43 AM
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 09, 2011, 03:01:47 PM
Post by: kirkl on September 09, 2011, 03:45:42 PM
Post by: Whitefoot on September 09, 2011, 06:34:55 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 09, 2011, 06:53:46 PM
!! Can we say cry me an effing river wasington.com or is it let me tell and complain about the Indians Washington.Com?? Either or it's always telling on the Indians or complaining... Beat the Horse... wait it's dead... get over it all ready!!! :sry:
ummm no the horses most definitely arent dead and cheval is good eats and the rez appears to be over run with them ;) just saying if I was hungry well I saw a whole lot more horses than anything else ...was hoping for a glimpse of the speed goats.
NO ONE should be hunting on the winter feeding grounds inside the fence....for elk
Post by: Special T on September 09, 2011, 06:55:03 PM
Tribes have a real opportunity to help this states Fish & Game population...
Fact Every one knows the WDFW is effing us..
Fact tribes have mush more power and latitude when it comes to game than the rest of us...
If i was a native (which i am not unfortunately)I would be pressing As hard as i could for all forms of predator contol. Wolves, Sealions, magpies, crows, you name it... I would do this for 2 reasons.
1 on the rez and i think on ceded lands all you have to do is follow fed laws, along with tribal.
2 to get an exception to fed laws you have a fast lane..
Take the Makah for example and their whale hunts... if Wa and Or tribes banded together to put the squeeze on sea lions (which no longer need ESA protection) and many other forms of predators Indians would help everyone...
Lets just look at the recent example of the antelope reintroduction... the WDFW bilked 300k out of people in studies! so the Yaks said " if you pay we'll bring them here." BOOM! Its done...
Don't you think that every White commercial fisherman would foot the bill for a layer challenging a tribal sea lion hunting season? Hell i'd give money for a bounty and i don't commercial fish!
I know a lot of Indians get tired of the hate, but i think you guys are missing the boat on a real opportunity.. :twocents:
Post by: runamuk on September 09, 2011, 07:22:54 PM
the "tribes" are political organizations just as is our "government"
the problem lies in "people" of America being screwed and treated unequally ..... its not even about fair...life aint fricken fair..... if it was I would be a real princess with all the perks.....I am not I am just a girl with few perks but lots of great people pulling for me ;)
anyone who cares about the true conservation of elk is not gonna think its a good idea to shoot them when penned up and being fed hay/pellets :dunno:
Post by: Nilehunter on September 09, 2011, 07:28:32 PM
Some of your native screen names crack me up! :chuckle: Wagon-Burner??? I can see your here to make friends... :chuckle:
Tribes have a real opportunity to help this states Fish & Game population...
Fact Every one knows the WDFW is effing us..
Fact tribes have mush more power and latitude when it comes to game than the rest of us...
If i was a native (which i am not unfortunately)I would be pressing As hard as i could for all forms of predator contol. Wolves, Sealions, magpies, crows, you name it... I would do this for 2 reasons.
1 on the rez and i think on ceded lands all you have to do is follow fed laws, along with tribal.
2 to get an exception to fed laws you have a fast lane..
Take the Makah for example and their whale hunts... if Wa and Or tribes banded together to put the squeeze on sea lions (which no longer need ESA protection) and many other forms of predators Indians would help everyone...
Lets just look at the recent example of the antelope reintroduction... the WDFW bilked 300k out of people in studies! so the Yaks said " if you pay we'll bring them here." BOOM! Its done...
Don't you think that every White commercial fisherman would foot the bill for a layer challenging a tribal sea lion hunting season? Hell i'd give money for a bounty and i don't commercial fish!
I know a lot of Indians get tired of the hate, but i think you guys are missing the boat on a real opportunity.. :twocents:
Hate has nothing to do with if for me. With spike only elk, 3pt min. deer, short enough season with little to no late season and the over 1k spent each year on lic tags and gear, yea I would just like a more even playing field and hold native hunters to the same standard as the rest of Washington hunters as in no hunting in obviouse areas for obviouse reasons. This state can afford to have washed out roads patroled during our hunting season but not enforce no hunting in or around the feeding station during the winter month??? LOL
Post by: Special T on September 09, 2011, 07:39:31 PM
Post by: Yak-NDN on September 09, 2011, 09:19:33 PM
Post by: Special T on September 09, 2011, 10:17:36 PM
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 10, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
Post by: colockumelk on September 10, 2011, 08:57:07 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 10, 2011, 09:18:50 PM
I have a serious question that maybe someone like plateau or coastal can answer for me. Since the tribes are entitled to 50% of the harvests. Shouldn't they then have to pay half the costs of maintaiming those resources? Why is the wdfw and US Americans paying all of it.
Because the WDFW and US Americans are afraid of their own shadows. What would it be like if WE had the laws of the old days now ? Different story I bet.
Post by: Yak-NDN on September 10, 2011, 10:09:08 PM
:stup:there u go acting inocent agin... well i just boughgt a snow machine.. so i am making a sled to pull behind it. has to be able to pull a large load... ;)... oh ya n chasing wolves cougars n yotes.. please... i blast yoties every time i see them.. and i ask state fish n game if they want me to shoot cougars when i see them because i see what they do to deer heards... but state fish and game say leave them alone. and the wolf thing i wouldnt mind blasting one. but thats another topic. there has been wovles on our rez for years and they havent been a problem. but i havent seen what they have done of the rez tho..
wagon burners are not so good for deer herds either, and they don't let us shoot them.
Post by: high country on September 11, 2011, 08:23:53 AM
I again apologize if you were offended, and to wagon burner, I hope to see you banned or change your user name to something that does not make people want to play cowboys and Indians again.
Post by: ribka on September 11, 2011, 09:31:43 AM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute. 4 tribal members shot 4 bull elk ( spikes) last Spring in the Wenas, at night, from the road, on private property with 22 mag. They then left the elk to rot. ( I posted pics on here) As far as I know they caught the 2 offenders and nothing was done to them to date.
Tribal members know this and constantly push the limit and shoot from the road, spotlight, tresspass and waste game.
They are never prosecuted or fined
I often run into tribal members hunting from vehicles. They stop and ask where the elk are. Every tribal member has responded that they want to be able to shoot from or near their vehicles and near the road so they do not have to hike to retrieve game. On a side note I often smell alcohol on their breath when the ask and see the empty beer cans in the back of their vehicles.
Does shooting from vehicles and drinking heavily while hunting somehow play into the hunting tribal ceremony/heritage?
Where is the honor in that?
I wish the tribes had more members like Coastal
Post by: CamoDup on September 11, 2011, 09:46:24 AM
Post by: bigtex on September 11, 2011, 10:29:20 AM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute.
WDFW will not seek prosecution because they CAN'T!
People need to understand that when a tribal member is in their legal hunting and fishing areas the only laws that apply to them is tribal. Even if that person is violating tribal laws all a WDFW Officer can do is type up a report and give it to the tribe, it is then up to the tribe to decide what they want to do.
When a tribal member is outside of their legal areas WDFW can seek prosecution just like any other citizen.
Post by: liljozie495 on September 11, 2011, 01:04:39 PM
Post by: ribka on September 11, 2011, 08:31:28 PM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute.
WDFW will not seek prosecution because they CAN'T!
People need to understand that when a tribal member is in their legal hunting and fishing areas the only laws that apply to them is tribal. Even if that person is violating tribal laws all a WDFW Officer can do is type up a report and give it to the tribe, it is then up to the tribe to decide what they want to do.
When a tribal member is outside of their legal areas WDFW can seek prosecution just like any other citizen.
A little puzzled.
WDFW cannot enforce tribal hunting on posted, private land, spot lighting and wasting game at night?
Not being a smart ass just trying to understand the WDFW and level of their jurisdiction pertaining tribal members
My experience and this is based upon multiple violations by tribal members is the Tribal LEO's will not prosecute their own for almost any crime. Maybe this can be attributed to their culture, relations of offenders to tribal council members, tribal vs state politics etc, etc??
Post by: colockumelk on September 11, 2011, 08:35:25 PM
I have a serious question that maybe someone like plateau or coastal can answer for me. Since the tribes are entitled to 50% of the harvests. Shouldn't they then have to pay half the costs of maintaiming those resources? Why is the wdfw and US Americans paying all of it.
Nothing huh??/
Post by: Coastal_native on September 11, 2011, 08:59:52 PM
I have a serious question that maybe someone like plateau or coastal can answer for me. Since the tribes are entitled to 50% of the harvests. Shouldn't they then have to pay half the costs of maintaiming those resources? Why is the wdfw and US Americans paying all of it.
Nothing huh??/
C'mon Colockum give me a chance, I didn't even see this thread :chuckle:
You'd be very surprised at how much money tribes spend on wildlife management out on the OP. You see tribes and WDFW collaborating and sharing resources to conduct population work and research quite a bit. A lot of it is federal and grant money, but look at it this way...if it's federal money, it's our tax money and it's going to manage wildlife in areas that we both hunt. I'll find you the reference to a new study that shows that when tribes receive money for fish and wildlife mgmt that they put it to better use than other agencies. It goes in to conducting actual work, instead of bureaucratic administrative growth. I would guess that some tribes spend more $/sq mile of mgmt area than other agencies.
Post by: colockumelk on September 11, 2011, 09:08:09 PM
Post by: colockumelk on September 11, 2011, 09:14:00 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on September 11, 2011, 09:22:22 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 11, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute.
WDFW will not seek prosecution because they CAN'T!
People need to understand that when a tribal member is in their legal hunting and fishing areas the only laws that apply to them is tribal. Even if that person is violating tribal laws all a WDFW Officer can do is type up a report and give it to the tribe, it is then up to the tribe to decide what they want to do.
When a tribal member is outside of their legal areas WDFW can seek prosecution just like any other citizen.
A little puzzled.
WDFW cannot enforce tribal hunting on posted, private land, spot lighting and wasting game at night?
Not being a smart ass just trying to understand the WDFW and level of their jurisdiction pertaining tribal members
Let me clarify myself. When I said tribal members in their legal hunting area I am referring to the lands defined as "open and unclaimed". So when a tribal member enters private property that is posted and appears to be claimed then they follow under the jurisdiction of WDFW.
But if a tribal member is on "open and unclaimed" land such as a national forest or DNR/WDFW lands within their treaty hunting areas then WDFW has no jurisdiction over tribal violations. So if a tribal member is within their treaty area, shoots an elk while spotlighting and doesn't retrieve the animal, all WDFW can do is write a report and send it to the tribe.
Post by: Jerbear on September 11, 2011, 09:54:09 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute. 4 tribal members shot 4 bull elk ( spikes) last Spring in the Wenas, at night, from the road, on private property with 22 mag. They then left the elk to rot. ( I posted pics on here) As far as I know they caught the 2 offenders and nothing was done to them to date.
Tribal members know this and constantly push the limit and shoot from the road, spotlight, tresspass and waste game.
They are never prosecuted or fined
I often run into tribal members hunting from vehicles. They stop and ask where the elk are. Every tribal member has responded that they want to be able to shoot from or near their vehicles and near the road so they do not have to hike to retrieve game. On a side note I often smell alcohol on their breath when the ask and see the empty beer cans in the back of their vehicles.
Does shooting from vehicles and drinking heavily while hunting somehow play into the hunting tribal ceremony/heritage?
Where is the honor in that?
I wish the tribes had more members like Coastal
Ribka, I've stated it here before and I'll state it again, if you see something take the info. down and if you don't want to report it then give it to me and I will report it. Document everything you can and don't bother them because that's a good way of escalating a siutation that can be avoided. The situation you described I already addressed here and I'm not quite sure which post it was but it was a few months ago now.
The Yakama was prosecuted in Tribal Court and last I heard he was barred of his hunting rights but not sure for how long and the other gentleman was Colville and he was turned over to the County Prosecutor. If they look Indian question their motives because nobody except Yakama's have rights east of the Cascades.
I also mentioned before the Tribal Police had turned over a couple of non-members that were caught poaching and although they may have been descendants they were not enrolled members so jurisdiction fell to the County and last time I was there they were facing some jail time and loss of hunting rights.
So to say "we" the Yakamas don't prosecute is a little bit immature and I can't speak for any other Tribe but I'm sure there are some bad apples that get away because nobody reports them. You don't want to do it then give it to me and I will be glad to do it.
Colockum, I agree with your statement about paying our portion. I know with fish we are paying a big portion but as far as big game we are not paying anything outside of the Rez and I think we should be doing more. It all falls back to politics within the Tribe. You have some that push the agendas of those that have paid for them to be in a position that allows them to govern what is best for the Tribe and what is not and then you have those that push their own agendas for the betterment of themselves and then you have the very few that are actually for the people but don't realistically have any power because of the majority swaying all the power their way.
Until a strong leader can be put in place we are not going to have much change if at all for quite a while and it sucks because we are capable of a lot but with the power struggle in place there is not a whole lot that can be done. I'll be there this fall to vote but again one vote can't do a whole lot when you have 50 that were bought and paid for by the opposition.
Them sandal and turtleneck wearing, wine sipping tree huggers love it when we're constantly at it because it gives them pleasure seeing others fighting and not them.
Sorry I rang in a little late but if you needed an expedited answer you could've shot me a PM Colockum and said check this thread and I could've jumped online for a few minutes and helped out Coastal, even though he provided some good input.
Post by: ribka on September 12, 2011, 09:14:00 AM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute. 4 tribal members shot 4 bull elk ( spikes) last Spring in the Wenas, at night, from the road, on private property with 22 mag. They then left the elk to rot. ( I posted pics on here) As far as I know they caught the 2 offenders and nothing was done to them to date.
Tribal members know this and constantly push the limit and shoot from the road, spotlight, tresspass and waste game.
They are never prosecuted or fined
I often run into tribal members hunting from vehicles. They stop and ask where the elk are. Every tribal member has responded that they want to be able to shoot from or near their vehicles and near the road so they do not have to hike to retrieve game. On a side note I often smell alcohol on their breath when the ask and see the empty beer cans in the back of their vehicles.
Does shooting from vehicles and drinking heavily while hunting somehow play into the hunting tribal ceremony/heritage?
Where is the honor in that?
I wish the tribes had more members like Coastal
Ribka, I've stated it here before and I'll state it again, if you see something take the info. down and if you don't want to report it then give it to me and I will report it. Document everything you can and don't bother them because that's a good way of escalating a siutation that can be avoided. The situation you described I already addressed here and I'm not quite sure which post it was but it was a few months ago now.
The Yakama was prosecuted in Tribal Court and last I heard he was barred of his hunting rights but not sure for how long and the other gentleman was Colville and he was turned over to the County Prosecutor. If they look Indian question their motives because nobody except Yakama's have rights east of the Cascades.
I also mentioned before the Tribal Police had turned over a couple of non-members that were caught poaching and although they may have been descendants they were not enrolled members so jurisdiction fell to the County and last time I was there they were facing some jail time and loss of hunting rights.
So to say "we" the Yakamas don't prosecute is a little bit immature and I can't speak for any other Tribe but I'm sure there are some bad apples that get away because nobody reports them. You don't want to do it then give it to me and I will be glad to do it.
Colockum, I agree with your statement about paying our portion. I know with fish we are paying a big portion but as far as big game we are not paying anything outside of the Rez and I think we should be doing more. It all falls back to politics within the Tribe. You have some that push the agendas of those that have paid for them to be in a position that allows them to govern what is best for the Tribe and what is not and then you have those that push their own agendas for the betterment of themselves and then you have the very few that are actually for the people but don't realistically have any power because of the majority swaying all the power their way.
Until a strong leader can be put in place we are not going to have much change if at all for quite a while and it sucks because we are capable of a lot but with the power struggle in place there is not a whole lot that can be done. I'll be there this fall to vote but again one vote can't do a whole lot when you have 50 that were bought and paid for by the opposition.
Them sandal and turtleneck wearing, wine sipping tree huggers love it when we're constantly at it because it gives them pleasure seeing others fighting and not them.
Sorry I rang in a little late but if you needed an expedited answer you could've shot me a PM Colockum and said check this thread and I could've jumped online for a few minutes and helped out Coastal, even though he provided some good input.
Thanks for your response and the info. I swear I saw one of them ( 22 mag) up in the area last week road hunting that is why I posted. I wish your tribe all the best for a strong leader
I think most on here do not have major issues with tribal hunting as long as it is performed in a responsible manner. By responsible I mean no shooting at feed stations, wintering grounds from vehicles, spot lighting and shooting on private property.
I run into tribal members up near where I live and they ask me where to find an elk for ceremonial purposes and I show tell them where they can find elk away from the roads and usually within a 1/2 mile from the road. Unfortunately almost all have responded they want to shoot from their vehicles. I will continue to help if asked but always direct away from developed roads.
Appreciate input from you and Coastal. You two really help keep the tribal hunting dialogue civil and I always learn something new from you two
Post by: colockumelk on September 12, 2011, 09:26:58 AM
You didn't see my post in the "other big game" section. I'll get to elk stories later. Right now I'm trying to dig up facts for you...unfortunately...I don't have any. All I have are more long winded posts loaded with conjecture. Are you hunting? or are you somewhere on the east coast wearing a turtle neck drinking white wine?
Ill have to look it up. No need to dig up facts. I know western tribes do help out alot. Now only if the eastern ones would follow your lead. As far as the turtle neck goes I prefer a dark blue one and red wine. But tomorrow I'm flying out to WA to go hunt for 10 days.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 09:30:48 AM
according to the tribal game dept. representatives that were at the meeting all the natives have to do is open up their game laws and actually read them. The representatives said it's all spelled out in their rules that the feed stations are safety zones and are off limits to hunting.
Tribla member know they can anything they want because WDFW will not prosecute and Tribal LEO's will not prosecute. 4 tribal members shot 4 bull elk ( spikes) last Spring in the Wenas, at night, from the road, on private property with 22 mag. They then left the elk to rot. ( I posted pics on here) As far as I know they caught the 2 offenders and nothing was done to them to date.
Tribal members know this and constantly push the limit and shoot from the road, spotlight, tresspass and waste game.
They are never prosecuted or fined
I often run into tribal members hunting from vehicles. They stop and ask where the elk are. Every tribal member has responded that they want to be able to shoot from or near their vehicles and near the road so they do not have to hike to retrieve game. On a side note I often smell alcohol on their breath when the ask and see the empty beer cans in the back of their vehicles.
Does shooting from vehicles and drinking heavily while hunting somehow play into the hunting tribal ceremony/heritage?
Where is the honor in that?
I wish the tribes had more members like Coastal
Ribka, I've stated it here before and I'll state it again, if you see something take the info. down and if you don't want to report it then give it to me and I will report it. Document everything you can and don't bother them because that's a good way of escalating a siutation that can be avoided. The situation you described I already addressed here and I'm not quite sure which post it was but it was a few months ago now.
The Yakama was prosecuted in Tribal Court and last I heard he was barred of his hunting rights but not sure for how long and the other gentleman was Colville and he was turned over to the County Prosecutor. If they look Indian question their motives because nobody except Yakama's have rights east of the Cascades.
I also mentioned before the Tribal Police had turned over a couple of non-members that were caught poaching and although they may have been descendants they were not enrolled members so jurisdiction fell to the County and last time I was there they were facing some jail time and loss of hunting rights.
So to say "we" the Yakamas don't prosecute is a little bit immature and I can't speak for any other Tribe but I'm sure there are some bad apples that get away because nobody reports them. You don't want to do it then give it to me and I will be glad to do it.
Colockum, I agree with your statement about paying our portion. I know with fish we are paying a big portion but as far as big game we are not paying anything outside of the Rez and I think we should be doing more. It all falls back to politics within the Tribe. You have some that push the agendas of those that have paid for them to be in a position that allows them to govern what is best for the Tribe and what is not and then you have those that push their own agendas for the betterment of themselves and then you have the very few that are actually for the people but don't realistically have any power because of the majority swaying all the power their way.
Until a strong leader can be put in place we are not going to have much change if at all for quite a while and it sucks because we are capable of a lot but with the power struggle in place there is not a whole lot that can be done. I'll be there this fall to vote but again one vote can't do a whole lot when you have 50 that were bought and paid for by the opposition.
Them sandal and turtleneck wearing, wine sipping tree huggers love it when we're constantly at it because it gives them pleasure seeing others fighting and not them.
Sorry I rang in a little late but if you needed an expedited answer you could've shot me a PM Colockum and said check this thread and I could've jumped online for a few minutes and helped out Coastal, even though he provided some good input.
Thanks for your response and the info. I swear I saw one of them ( 22 mag) up in the area last week road hunting that is why I posted. I wish your tribe all the best for a strong leader
I think most on here do not have major issues with tribal hunting as long as it is performed in a responsible manner. By responsible I mean no shooting at feed stations, wintering grounds from vehicles, spot lighting and shooting on private property.
I run into tribal members up near where I live and they ask me where to find an elk for ceremonial purposes and I show tell them where they can find elk away from the roads and usually within a 1/2 mile from the road. Unfortunately almost all have responded they want to shoot from their vehicles. I will continue to help if asked but always direct away from developed roads.
Appreciate input from you and Coastal. You two really help keep the tribal hunting dialogue civil and I always learn something new from you two
You got any info. on them? It's illegal to use anything smaller than a .25 for Yakamas when Elk hunting. I'd take any info. you had on them and pass it along myself because I'm getting tired of those that abuse their rights and are ignorant to the laws and regulations that have been established.
I know it is in some people's nature to help out those less fortunate (I'm guilty of this as well) but if they were supposedly hunting for ceremonial reasons I would've asked for paperwork and/or said go in that general direction. Also, Sept. 1 is opening day for female deer and elk so they don't need a permit for ceremonial purposes until after Dec. 31 so more than likely they were pulling your leg trying to make it easier for themselves.
I don't like road hunters and if you can't get out of your vehicle and walk a little than you don't deserve to know any info. I have to offer.
Good luck Colockum and don't forget story and pics! :tup:
Post by: ribka on September 12, 2011, 01:05:01 PM
My understanding, what little I possess, is the ceremonial elk is for the meat and not the horns.
If it is a legit ceremonial elk and they want to shoot a cow elk I usually will give them a hand
This is typically 2-3 times a year
Post by: Yak-NDN on September 12, 2011, 02:02:27 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on September 12, 2011, 02:04:19 PM
Have only dealt with tribal hunters in the Winter and Spring after season. I always talk to them awhile before giving out any help/info and can tell the legit hunters looking for a ceremonial elk from the others. And have only helped them find a cow elk for ceremonial services .Your a bigger man than me.
My understanding, what little I possess, is the ceremonial elk is for the meat and not the horns.
If it is a legit ceremonial elk and they want to shoot a cow elk I usually will give them a hand
This is typically 2-3 times a year
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 12, 2011, 04:10:27 PM
Almost Everyone road hunts some time or another that is a fact. I helped my cuz a few years back because he got drawn for a branch bull and *censored* it was like a traffic jam in the woods you guys are brave men It scared the hell put of me. *censored* the camp grounds were like small towns and they were camped on top of one another. And orange spots everywhere. And for that guy that almost went off the rd because I was daydreaming out into the wood this weekend Im sorry.
:chuckle: Yeah I've seen that quite a few times and last year when I got a late start heading up I ran into a guy that must've pissed off his hunting buddies because he was stuck on camp guard duty or something? :dunno: He had this sad look on his face like he got ditched in the woods or something... :dunno: :chuckle:
I went for a drive up hi-way 12 and took some side roads and it looked like tent city in some places kind of reminded me of the pow-wow at Legends last month with hunters everywhere! Caught a shocker when I was going down this steep hill with a lot of rocks and what do I see coming at me like a bat out of hell... :yike: Toyota Camry with a couple of hunters in it! That's hunting fever right there! :tup:
Post by: high country on September 12, 2011, 04:50:56 PM
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 17, 2011, 04:18:09 AM
Post by: Miles on September 17, 2011, 06:23:06 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on September 17, 2011, 06:31:19 AM
well i am back,,, i see every one cryed around about my name so the white man gave me a new name. funny how this of the past come back up . i am susprised they didnt ask me to cut my hair and pick a christian name. :tup: i gess people can call natives bad names on here and get away with it and not be banned but when an native puts the name he was called as his name itsd a crime and i need to be banned. i bet sence i posted this i will be banned agin. but remeber all the crying wont change the treaty. i will still hunt where my fathers fathers hunted and fish where there fathers fished. all the meetings and all the gates wont stop me or my people. and for the Yakamas on this page aggreeing with these people. Grow some balls and remeber your past. the roots where you came from. hunt fish as you need and hunt and fish for your people and there famlies. i gess you dont remeber were you come from. your lost you should just live there way and forget our way. and for the natives that aduse there rights. You bring shame and hated to our people. change you ways our it will chatch up to you. and for every one else. I am LITTLE RED WAGON...... with that bull in the back!
:bash:
Post by: rtspring on September 17, 2011, 06:45:39 AM
well i am back,,, i see every one cryed around about my name so the white man gave me a new name. funny how this of the past come back up . i am susprised they didnt ask me to cut my hair and pick a christian name. :tup: i gess people can call natives bad names on here and get away with it and not be banned but when an native puts the name he was called as his name itsd a crime and i need to be banned. i bet sence i posted this i will be banned agin. but remeber all the crying wont change the treaty. i will still hunt where my fathers fathers hunted and fish where there fathers fished. all the meetings and all the gates wont stop me or my people. and for the Yakamas on this page aggreeing with these people. Grow some balls and remeber your past. the roots where you came from. hunt fish as you need and hunt and fish for your people and there famlies. i gess you dont remeber were you come from. your lost you should just live there way and forget our way. and for the natives that aduse there rights. You bring shame and hated to our people. change you ways our it will chatch up to you. and for every one else. I am LITTLE RED WAGON...... with that bull in the back!
Maybe you should try using the same weapons you fathers, and fathers father used to hunt back when, Wanna use nets? how bout canoes instead of the WHITE MANS MANS MOTOR BOATS. Your treaty was wrote long ago and although I support you having some rights, they should not be abused!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Jerbear on September 17, 2011, 07:49:02 AM
Post by: runamuk on September 17, 2011, 09:06:27 AM
well i am back,,, i see every one cryed around about my name so the white man gave me a new name. funny how this of the past come back up . i am susprised they didnt ask me to cut my hair and pick a christian name. :tup: i gess people can call natives bad names on here and get away with it and not be banned but when an native puts the name he was called as his name itsd a crime and i need to be banned. i bet sence i posted this i will be banned agin. but remeber all the crying wont change the treaty. i will still hunt where my fathers fathers hunted and fish where there fathers fished. all the meetings and all the gates wont stop me or my people. and for the Yakamas on this page aggreeing with these people. Grow some balls and remeber your past. the roots where you came from. hunt fish as you need and hunt and fish for your people and there famlies. i gess you dont remeber were you come from. your lost you should just live there way and forget our way. and for the natives that aduse there rights. You bring shame and hated to our people. change you ways our it will chatch up to you. and for every one else. I am LITTLE RED WAGON...... with that bull in the back!
first off if you are gonna rant preview and all those red squiggles in the box are spelling errors...bold above for your ease of identification
I think all of us from pioneer stock need to take back our roots and heritage and say screw the system and hunt as our forefathers did and fish as they did too...There are some good old photos of stacks of bucks on cars I see no reason why we shouldn't hunt it is our right to feed ourselves and take care of our families to hell with the laws of this country, besides it will be self limiting once we run out of game and fish no one will be able to hunt anymore.....gawd damn that's it the anti's should be promoting unchecked hunting ( call it hunting Indian style) it would be a way faster way to end hunting altogether...
little red wagon if I see you out there with antlers in the back I am taking pictures and might start posting them online on a website I shall call native pride I will ask for contributions of pictures of all this pride and it will be done as a political art piece .... maybe I can get some start up money from the national endowment before it gets axed :chuckle: :chuckle:
you just don't get it some of us actually care about nature...some of you people speak a good line but no longer practice what they preach I know a whole lot of white men who are better Indians than you will ever be...just sayin (spelled incorrectly on purpose)
*disclaimer
and this entire diatribe is spewed directly at little red wagon and in no way reflects my feelings toward our other members on here who have acted civilly and like humans this guy is a jerk and as such there is no reason to respond to him with civility any more
Post by: Special T on September 17, 2011, 10:01:07 AM
I have a German Customer that lives in BC and moved there just for the hunting.. He often asks me "Was the Hunt Good?" Not necessarily if i got something, or how many or how big... I know Addicted has talked a little about his hunts with the Jagermeister over in Germany and the streckelegen ....
Now i don't give a damn if Indians hunt with a rifle, or use a 50 cal and a motor boat to kill a whale. But many of us (hunters)Search for our roots in the hunt... When people (in general) run their mouth its because they haven't engaged their brain. Some here like to get fired up that Indians aren't using bows and arrows, but i think that is just frustration. What i think what they, and others, would like to see is the tradition and reverence we believe tribes men have.
Its ironic that when i think of an Indian it isn't a "Wagon Burner" So much as they posses the superhuman ability to hunt, fish and track. Granted that image i have is from John Wayne westerns, and books by Louis Lamore and not real world experience.
From this forum I'm mostly interested What my brothers of the hunt, but specifically Tribesmen, are doing to keep our heritage alive. I don't care for for the finger pointing, i'm mostly interested in moving forward... I'm glad there are tribesmen on this forum that think the same way, and it is a shame that they are called and "Uncle tom".
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 17, 2011, 11:48:24 AM
it is cute what you wrote. but you dont now how i hunt or why i hunt so who r you to judge. and take my picture. whoop-dee-doo. is that spelled right. any ways it wouldnt be the first time or the last time some one has taken my picture and put it on the e net. like i said before. i know what i hunt for and why. you just see it as killing all the elk and you dont get a tag or something. and all you can do about it is point fingers and blame all the indians for killing the elk. And isnt the way you fourfathers hunted the reason you have tags beacuse the killed of elk, deer and buffalo heard? just to waste the meat. i have seen the pics and i gess if you proud of that then :tup:. i dont waste meat. every animal i kill serves a purpose. so there is my :twocents: . oh can you spell check this and let me know what i spelled wrong. thank you
Post by: mtbeav on September 17, 2011, 11:57:57 AM
1. Perceive with the ear the sound made by (someone or something).
2. Be told or informed of.
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 17, 2011, 12:02:28 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 17, 2011, 01:55:22 PM
runamuk
it is cute what you wrote. but you dont now how i hunt or why i hunt so who r you to judge. and take my picture. whoop-dee-doo. is that spelled right. any ways it wouldnt be the first time or the last time some one has taken my picture and put it on the e net. like i said before. i know what i hunt for and why. you just see it as killing all the elk and you dont get a tag or something. and all you can do about it is point fingers and blame all the indians for killing the elk. And isnt the way you fourfathers hunted the reason you have tags beacuse the killed of elk, deer and buffalo heard? just to waste the meat. i have seen the pics and i gess if you proud of that then :tup:. i dont waste meat. every animal i kill serves a purpose. so there is my :twocents: . oh can you spell check this and let me know what i spelled wrong. thank you
I don't know how you hunt or really care, you come on here name call and act like an ass that's the part I am judging....then say you will be out there killing and rubbing peoples noses in it...awesome dude enjoy
my people didn't kill stacks of animals :dunno: my people (forefathers) were not hunters :dunno: don't know what to tell you...
when I made that statement I was being facetious
I am done gonna just block all your posts from view it will make my reading here so much more relaxing
and I wont likely be hunting much anyway if at all....
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 18, 2011, 02:52:16 PM
runamuk
it is cute what you wrote. but you dont now how i hunt or why i hunt so who r you to judge. and take my picture. whoop-dee-doo. is that spelled right. any ways it wouldnt be the first time or the last time some one has taken my picture and put it on the e net. like i said before. i know what i hunt for and why. you just see it as killing all the elk and you dont get a tag or something. and all you can do about it is point fingers and blame all the indians for killing the elk. And isnt the way you fourfathers hunted the reason you have tags beacuse the killed of elk, deer and buffalo heard? just to waste the meat. i have seen the pics and i gess if you proud of that then :tup:. i dont waste meat. every animal i kill serves a purpose. so there is my :twocents: . oh can you spell check this and let me know what i spelled wrong. thank you
I don't know how you hunt or really care, you come on here name call and act like an ass that's the part I am judging....then say you will be out there killing and rubbing peoples noses in it...awesome dude enjoy
my people didn't kill stacks of animals :dunno: my people (forefathers) were not hunters :dunno: don't know what to tell you...
when I made that statement I was being facetious
I am done gonna just block all your posts from view it will make my reading here so much more relaxing
and I wont likely be hunting much anyway if at all....
Wagon Burner, you're sounding very hypocritical. Telling people on here not to judge you because they don't know you and yet, here you are judging me and other Yakamas on here by basically calling us "Uncle Toms". You don't know me so don't judge me. I and my family practice "OUR" traditions and if you want to question that then maybe we should meet in person and see who is actually telling the truth. I stand by what I say and have more than once offered an invitation to meet in person if it helps quell a situation.
By the way you describe yourself as being a hunter for sustenance and not wasteful of meat then we share some similarities whether you like it or not. I'm the same way and I for one do not like those that abuse their rights and have said so in person and on here that something needs to be done about them. I don't always agree with what is said on here but I do agree with the those that dislike some of our tribesmen's slaughter tactics. I don't hunt for trophy or sport, I hunt for food and also use the animal for more than one purpose.
If your comment wasn't directed at me then I apologize now for what I stated but, if it was then I'm not sorry and that is my :twocents: .
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 22, 2011, 01:25:00 AM
By the way you describe yourself as being a hunter for sustenance and not wasteful of meat then we share some similarities whether you like it or not. I'm the same way and I for one do not like those that abuse their rights and have said so in person and on here that something needs to be done about them. I don't always agree with what is said on here but I do agree with the those that dislike some of our tribesmen's slaughter tactics. I don't hunt for trophy or sport, I hunt for food and also use the animal for more than one purpose.
If your comment wasn't directed at me then I apologize now for what I stated but, if it was then I'm not sorry and that is my :twocents: .
[/quote]id
well it wasnt for you. but good job responding. it just goes to show you. that they are winning. turning you aginst one of your own. u should tread carefull. becuase know you are acting like an.... what did you say.. oh yes an "uncle Tom". i was pointing out people who dont stand up for us amd bring us down. i dont agree whit people and the way some of them hunt. but i gess those wre my :twocents:
Post by: demontang on September 22, 2011, 07:56:00 AM
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 23, 2011, 10:28:26 PM