Post by: cboom on June 06, 2012, 11:33:00 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 06, 2012, 11:42:29 PM
And I agree about the current two car limit- it's still not good enough. If you buy a pass it should be valid on any vehicle you happen to be driving at the time.
Post by: RB on June 06, 2012, 11:53:00 PM
Post by: kentrek on June 07, 2012, 01:52:21 AM
Post by: RoyBoy on June 07, 2012, 02:04:59 AM
Post by: kentrek on June 07, 2012, 02:29:15 AM
well the only reason im so for it is because hopefully it will help keep out the people who dump trash and $h!t all over in the woods. maybe help clean some of the places up a bit too :twocents: :twocents:
no way is this going to stop peaple dumping trash...also im climbing mt st helens in a month or so and need a 25 dollor pass to go above 5k feet..what exactly does that money go toward ? do they maintian the mountain above 5k ? its a joke in my view with my current understanding...the mtn and woods seemd to be doing just fine befor the permits went up
Post by: boneaddict on June 07, 2012, 04:58:28 AM
Then enforce the damn thing. I am tired of seeing people without it using the same land I have "paid" for without one.
Post by: 3nails on June 07, 2012, 05:29:01 AM
Post by: Curly on June 07, 2012, 08:26:41 AM
Good post. I agree with all of it. I have the same issues with the Discover pass, yet, like you, I agree that it's fair for people to pay for the things that they use. I think State Parks should have their own pass and DNR should have their own pass. The DNR pass should only be required if you use developed recreational sites like campgrounds and ORV trailheads/parking lots. So for most of us hunters, we would not need a pass for DNR lands, and we are already covered on Fish & Wildlife lands with the pass that comes with our hunting license. So really what it boils down to, in my opinion, is that the Discover pass should have always been only for State Parks, especially since 84% of the revenue from the sales of the pass goes to them anyway. DNR should have come up with their own pass, or some other way of charging people for using campgrounds and such on state lands.:yeah:
And I agree about the current two car limit- it's still not good enough. If you buy a pass it should be valid on any vehicle you happen to be driving at the time.
The only place on DNR land the DP should be required is at campgrounds and to park at maintained trailheads. And it should be separate from Parks.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on June 07, 2012, 08:37:01 AM
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on June 07, 2012, 08:41:11 AM
Post by: lokidog on June 07, 2012, 08:42:14 AM
Good post. I agree with all of it. I have the same issues with the Discover pass, yet, like you, I agree that it's fair for people to pay for the things that they use. I think State Parks should have their own pass and DNR should have their own pass. The DNR pass should only be required if you use developed recreational sites like campgrounds and ORV trailheads/parking lots. So for most of us hunters, we would not need a pass for DNR lands, and we are already covered on Fish & Wildlife lands with the pass that comes with our hunting license. So really what it boils down to, in my opinion, is that the Discover pass should have always been only for State Parks, especially since 84% of the revenue from the sales of the pass goes to them anyway. DNR should have come up with their own pass, or some other way of charging people for using campgrounds and such on state lands.:yeah:
And I agree about the current two car limit- it's still not good enough. If you buy a pass it should be valid on any vehicle you happen to be driving at the time.
The only place on DNR land the DP should be required is at campgrounds and to park at maintained trailheads. And it should be separate from Parks.
:yeah:
I agree to pay to play, IF your playing costs the state something, like at maintained trailheads or campgrounds. The garbage dumpers will just drive through and dump anyways. :bash: I have not bought one, and not sure I will, until I have to. Do bicycles need one? Maybe I'll park on the side of a non-DNR road, then bike in to hunt. :chuckle:
Post by: washingtonmuley on June 07, 2012, 08:42:30 AM
Post by: buckfvr on June 07, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on June 07, 2012, 08:54:55 AM
ORV tags pay for facilities designated for ORVs....the state is double dipping, we already pay......and pay....and pay. Problem is they spend more than we pay, we pay more than enough, they spend way too much. :twocents:
NOVA funds come to mind ..... stolen from us !!
Post by: Mudman on June 07, 2012, 08:56:52 AM
I hate it. It's our land paid for with our taxes. I'll give you a different example. It's like you hired a maid to keep YOUR house clean. She/he gets greedy and decides to charge you an EXTRA $30 to use your own bathroom. Get out of MY house. YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!!!People seem to forget we already pay. Just because they spend money somewhere else then cut funding for public parks etc. doesnt give em excuse to invent new fees that sound reasonable. This fees crap is outta control. OMG how did they handle this 20 years ago? They spent the money they already raised from us responsibly. We were happy then right. Less fees/passes and more access 20yr ago and how quickly we forget.
Post by: fireweed on June 07, 2012, 08:58:36 AM
Originally the DNR was supposed to limit the pass to "developed and designated recreation sites". Goldmark (DNR head) took out a map and decided to start "designating" land on paper--even timblerland without any recreation improvments. last year Seattle changed the law.
It is awful to charge for operating a vehicle on state land. With all the county roads, easements, contractors, etc. this is sooooo STUPID. Not to mention dangerous. This is something the feds got right. Parking and Using a site only.
It's wrong for the DNR to be subsidizing the state parks. Two passes for two agencies (Park and DNR) is a bad idea, too (as if we aren't confused enough).
The way it is now I have to do a pass-check each time I head to the woods (discover? NW Forest? America the Beautiful? SNopark?
I would make the DP an additional small sticker for a license plate (get two stickers for $30 price).Stick it and forget it. And only enforced while parked at a DEVELOPED SITE. Then split the $$ more fairly, maybe with a citizen oversight committee to make sure it is used for recreation.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 07, 2012, 09:07:31 AM
I buy one because I'd be even more pissed if I had to pay a $99 fine.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 07, 2012, 09:29:19 AM
I find myself somewhat ok with it. I firmly believe people should pay costs for the things they use. Taking money out of the general coffer to cover the costs of parks and and other state lands is not really fair to the people that don't use it at all........ but I hate the fact my tax dollars are being spent on some art museum I will never set foot in. Same thing goes for sports stadiums and I love my sports
While I am very much against both the NWFP and the Discover Pass, I will point out that I disagree with your analogies. Both parks and museums are thought of as a way to improve the quality of life of the states citizens, and to preserve nature and culture. Just because I don't use some State Highways, should the state decrease its spending on roads in our less populace counties?
You are absolutely correct about the stadiums. Billionaires and millionaires are holding the emotions of the populace hostage all over (north) North America with the "new stadium or we move" mantra. Sports is absolutely morally corrupt as a business.
Post by: Huntbear on June 07, 2012, 09:41:15 AM
I do not use the state parks. I should not have to pay for them... There is no money coming out of the Discover Pass to help with anything on DNR wildlands.... IF it did, for example, they could use some of that money to create a shooting area in the WENAS area, vs. having to deal with meetings and homeowners filing complaints of bullets whizzing over their heads, horseback riders dealing with being shot over.. etc.... BUT, the money does not go to any of that... just to parks..
This state can not control its own spending... soooooooooooo lets create another fee and screw the sportsman in the state AGAIN! Even though I never step foot in a state park.. I have to pay for it???? BS! Let the people who use them, pay for them... if they can not work on a balanced budget.. then CLOSE THE PARKS! When enough people get pissed off about parks closing, maybe the state will learn to manage money better.... OH WAIT... I AM TALKING ABOUT GOVERNMENT HERE... Stupid me... :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: I am tired of being screwed every time the state wants more money, because they can not stop spending....
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 07, 2012, 09:44:32 AM
I find myself somewhat ok with it. I firmly believe people should pay costs for the things they use. Taking money out of the general coffer to cover the costs of parks and and other state lands is not really fair to the people that don't use it at all........ but I hate the fact my tax dollars are being spent on some art museum I will never set foot in. Same thing goes for sports stadiums and I love my sports
While I am very much against both the NWFP and the Discover Pass, I will point out that I disagree with your analogies. Both parks and museums are thought of as a way to improve the quality of life of the states citizens, and to preserve nature and culture. Just because I don't use some State Highways, should the state decrease its spending on roads in our less populace counties?
You are absolutely correct about the stadiums. Billionaires and millionaires are holding the emotions of the populace hostage all over (north) North America with the "new stadium or we move" mantra. Sports is absolutely morally corrupt as a business.
I don't have a problem with taxes to fund art. I only have a problem with those funds coming from DP, which is required for participation in outdoor activities. If they want to fund museums, it needs to be a tax everyone pays. When they collect fees from people who use the outdoors, those funds should stay in providing the service to those outdoor activities. The way it's set up now only invites abuse and irresponsible spending. Whenever you put more money into the General Fund, they spend it.
Post by: JohnVH on June 07, 2012, 09:49:06 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 07, 2012, 09:49:37 AM
I find myself somewhat ok with it. I firmly believe people should pay costs for the things they use. Taking money out of the general coffer to cover the costs of parks and and other state lands is not really fair to the people that don't use it at all........ but I hate the fact my tax dollars are being spent on some art museum I will never set foot in. Same thing goes for sports stadiums and I love my sports
While I am very much against both the NWFP and the Discover Pass, I will point out that I disagree with your analogies. Both parks and museums are thought of as a way to improve the quality of life of the states citizens, and to preserve nature and culture. Just because I don't use some State Highways, should the state decrease its spending on roads in our less populace counties?
You are absolutely correct about the stadiums. Billionaires and millionaires are holding the emotions of the populace hostage all over (north) North America with the "new stadium or we move" mantra. Sports is absolutely morally corrupt as a business.
I don't have a problem with taxes to fund art. I only have a problem with those funds coming from DP, which is required for participation in outdoor activities. If they want to fund museums, it needs to be a tax everyone pays. When they collect fees from people who use the outdoors, those funds should stay in providing the service to those outdoor activities. The way it's set up now only invites abuse and irresponsible spending. Whenever you put more money into the General Fund, they spend it.
I am in complete agreement
Post by: Annette on June 07, 2012, 10:02:02 AM
Post by: seth30 on June 07, 2012, 10:02:59 AM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on June 07, 2012, 10:41:45 AM
And no, I will not now or ever buy one. :twocents:
Post by: ghosthunter on June 07, 2012, 11:21:47 AM
Good post. I agree with all of it. I have the same issues with the Discover pass, yet, like you, I agree that it's fair for people to pay for the things that they use. I think State Parks should have their own pass and DNR should have their own pass. The DNR pass should only be required if you use developed recreational sites like campgrounds and ORV trailheads/parking lots. So for most of us hunters, we would not need a pass for DNR lands, and we are already covered on Fish & Wildlife lands with the pass that comes with our hunting license. So really what it boils down to, in my opinion, is that the Discover pass should have always been only for State Parks, especially since 84% of the revenue from the sales of the pass goes to them anyway. DNR should have come up with their own pass, or some other way of charging people for using campgrounds and such on state lands.
And I agree about the current two car limit- it's still not good enough. If you buy a pass it should be valid on any vehicle you happen to be driving at the time.
:yeah:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 07, 2012, 11:59:07 AM
Post by: lilshootergirl on June 07, 2012, 12:03:11 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on June 07, 2012, 12:33:55 PM
Fully against having to pay money to access public ground.
Post by: huntnphool on June 07, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
DP is NOT pay to play. Very little of the funding goes to the places/agencies where its use is required. This is a new tax on a small segment of our population (mostly sportsmen and women), with most of the revenues paying for services that all of our citizens use through the general fund. I'm against being singled out for a special tax for specific activities when 100% of that tax is not going directly to funding those activities.
I buy one because I'd be even more pissed if I had to pay a $99 fine.
+1
Post by: Gringo31 on June 07, 2012, 12:47:28 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on June 07, 2012, 12:50:13 PM
Post by: Special T on June 13, 2012, 12:43:00 PM
The DP was DESIGNED to take $$$ from one user group to give to another... People who use parks are not willing to pay for their use. 10 years ago there was a parking fee and attendance dropped. The hook and bullet crowd are willing to pay for their activities most parks users are not.
Pay to play is the most fair way to divide the bill. The state moves funds around as it sees fit and considers it "Their $" not yours... Stolen Nova funds, WDFW Lic plate funds and others.
I think a simplified pass is good. I like the idea of a DP but funds should be divided equally between at least the WDFW DNR and Parks for the purpose of Recreation, or even just WDFW and parks...
The game of divide and pit one group against each other is not new and will continue as long as we let them.
Post by: hunting4sanity on June 13, 2012, 01:23:13 PM
DP is NOT pay to play. Very little of the funding goes to the places/agencies where its use is required. This is a new tax on a small segment of our population (mostly sportsmen and women), with most of the revenues paying for services that all of our citizens use through the general fund. I'm against being singled out for a special tax for specific activities when 100% of that tax is not going directly to funding those activities.
I buy one because I'd be even more pissed if I had to pay a $99 fine.
What he said. :yeah:
Post by: mtman on June 13, 2012, 09:45:03 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on June 13, 2012, 09:56:56 PM
Post by: hoytem on June 13, 2012, 10:08:28 PM
Post by: chester on June 13, 2012, 10:12:51 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on June 15, 2012, 08:02:20 AM
I think i should point out some key points.
The DP was DESIGNED to take $$$ from one user group to give to another... People who use parks are not willing to pay for their use. 10 years ago there was a parking fee and attendance dropped. The hook and bullet crowd are willing to pay for their activities most parks users are not.
Pay to play is the most fair way to divide the bill. The state moves funds around as it sees fit and considers it "Their $" not yours... Stolen Nova funds, WDFW Lic plate funds and others.
I think a simplified pass is good. I like the idea of a DP but funds should be divided equally between at least the WDFW DNR and Parks for the purpose of Recreation, or even just WDFW and parks...
The game of divide and pit one group against each other is not new and will continue as long as we let them.
if you remember...in 2008 the Majority party in our state was selling "Hope and Change" right? the same party LOADED with these...
(from a CBU alert)
"The Forest Service and BLM are being run by environmental groups like Defenders of Wildlife, the National Wildlife Federation, World Wildlife Fund, Nature Conservancy and others to numerous to count. These groups have lots of money which has bought our land management agencies and corrupted the people in charge."
But how much is the state spending, or going to spend on the majority parties pet bill on gay marriage, all the while IGNORING the budget mess they had created?
Post by: Special T on June 15, 2012, 08:20:18 AM
Post by: norsepeak on June 15, 2012, 08:24:22 AM
Post by: Mudman on June 15, 2012, 04:35:54 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on June 15, 2012, 05:31:27 PM
I would probably be ok with it if they ticketed those that don't have it. Contrary to all of the reported tickets, I have yet to hear about (or see) anyone on state land in the Winston get tickets. I still see a ton of vehicles in the Capitol State Forest without the pass as well.
Yes, I understand that enforcement is stretched thin, but damn! Enforce the law.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 15, 2012, 08:28:58 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on June 16, 2012, 09:35:40 PM
Post by: Hermit on June 18, 2012, 09:21:46 PM
Post by: smdave on June 18, 2012, 09:38:57 PM
You needed one of these passes for day use.
Interagency Annual Pass (old Golden Eagle),
Senior Pass (old Golden Age)
Access Passport
Federal Duck Stamp
or an Annual Refuge Pass
One of us had one of the passes above we asked the lady in the interpretive center if we needed to put it on the dash she said and I quote "Only if you want to replace your windshield"
Not quite a discover pass reference but I had not thought about some one breaking out a window to steal a pass until right then.
Post by: Mudman on June 27, 2012, 10:37:39 PM
I am against it but I bought it to stay legal.Leos dont care much, they know how wrong these passes are.
I would probably be ok with it if they ticketed those that don't have it. Contrary to all of the reported tickets, I have yet to hear about (or see) anyone on state land in the Winston get tickets. I still see a ton of vehicles in the Capitol State Forest without the pass as well.
Yes, I understand that enforcement is stretched thin, but damn! Enforce the law.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on June 28, 2012, 07:44:39 PM
I am against it. and if I had one, I absolutely wouldn't display it while driving. :bdid: Can't stand hanging anything on the mirror, or laying on the dash making distracting reflections in the windshield. :bdid: who's assinine idea was that? :bash:
You mean you don't have a pair of fuzzy dice?
I can't stand anything hanging from the mirror either! Even if I bought into the Discover Pass BS I wouldn't hang it there. :sry:
Post by: Jack Diamond on July 03, 2012, 01:16:49 PM
Post by: Special T on July 03, 2012, 01:53:25 PM
Post by: jtw on July 07, 2012, 03:28:36 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 07, 2012, 03:44:00 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on July 07, 2012, 04:37:25 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 07, 2012, 05:15:10 PM
For or against is a moot point anyway. according to the reports I've read, the Discover Pass is a failure. The question is, what kind of crap are they going to try to foist onto us next?
No kididding !!! Next stupid idea by the democraps please ?
Post by: Jack Diamond on July 07, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 07, 2012, 05:44:44 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on July 07, 2012, 05:51:04 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on July 07, 2012, 05:54:19 PM
I am sure they would disown us, or hang us for treason!!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on July 07, 2012, 06:08:29 PM
And don't think it isn't happening here!
Post by: Jack Diamond on July 07, 2012, 06:18:56 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on July 07, 2012, 06:23:25 PM
So we should be grateful???
No, but we better be vigilant! Lest we end up like those poor bastiges...
Post by: CAMPMEAT on July 07, 2012, 06:40:50 PM
All that and we don't even get an apology--but everybody else does! :bash:
Agreed, 100 %.
Post by: billythekidrock on July 07, 2012, 07:14:51 PM
I am against it but I bought it to stay legal.Leos dont care much, they know how wrong these passes are.
I would probably be ok with it if they ticketed those that don't have it. Contrary to all of the reported tickets, I have yet to hear about (or see) anyone on state land in the Winston get tickets. I still see a ton of vehicles in the Capitol State Forest without the pass as well.
Yes, I understand that enforcement is stretched thin, but damn! Enforce the law.
That is exactly what I was told by a WDFW LEO.
Post by: oldcamper on July 12, 2012, 06:33:18 PM
Post by: RB on July 13, 2012, 09:10:45 PM
Post by: Swannytheswan on July 14, 2012, 02:58:59 AM
that is where your money is going...
Post by: Wenatcheejay on July 14, 2012, 07:31:27 AM
Against the administrators of the program. AKA the Democrats of Washington State. This is another one of their failed programs that are destroying our parks and destroying our wildlife/wild areas. If you look at it as a business they are running it into the ground and receiving huge amounts of money to do it. They should take State Parks that could be turned private or donated to local PUD/Counties willing to take control and do so.
I am saying the State which is broke should give up control of all that it can't properly manage. Instead of being responsible they just keep taxing and making more financially disastrous choices because there are no consequences.
"It's all Bush's fault" so they say.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on July 14, 2012, 07:42:20 AM
Post by: Sawbuck on July 14, 2012, 08:50:34 AM
DP is NOT pay to play. Very little of the funding goes to the places/agencies where its use is required. This is a new tax on a small segment of our population (mostly sportsmen and women), with most of the revenues paying for services that all of our citizens use through the general fund. I'm against being singled out for a special tax for specific activities when 100% of that tax is not going directly to funding those activities.:yeah:
I buy one because I'd be even more pissed if I had to pay a $99 fine.
If the state can't afford to keep the state land open to the public then they should sell it, and collect taxes on it.
If the pass is such a great solution then nobody should be exempt. The parkinglot at the capitol should be full of cars with passes hanging from the window.
Post by: Mudman on July 14, 2012, 11:36:40 AM
Post by: oldcamper on July 14, 2012, 07:21:31 PM
Post by: Dhoey07 on July 14, 2012, 08:10:19 PM
Something's wrong here. Very wrong
Post by: youngbuckslayer on July 14, 2012, 08:28:29 PM
Post by: logger on July 15, 2012, 09:02:11 AM
Post by: LiveandLearn on July 16, 2012, 01:19:01 PM
Post by: Mudman on July 16, 2012, 04:33:47 PM
Post by: wence5 on October 19, 2012, 12:13:35 PM
Post by: CedarPants on October 19, 2012, 12:55:54 PM
Post by: KNOPHISH on October 19, 2012, 01:06:25 PM
Post by: ironhead14 on October 23, 2012, 06:32:34 AM
Post by: Magnum40 on October 24, 2012, 07:31:28 PM
Post by: 400out on October 24, 2012, 07:34:40 PM
Post by: Jingles on October 24, 2012, 11:42:10 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on October 24, 2012, 11:44:48 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on October 24, 2012, 11:52:00 PM
Post by: csaaphill on October 25, 2012, 01:15:51 AM
Post by: Special T on October 25, 2012, 08:21:11 PM
Privatize the state parks.
They don't even have to privatize them all! :bash: There are just several parks that are a financial drain, and should either be unloaded(to a county or city) or in some way privatized like you said. there are MANY other parks that COULD pay their way, or close IF they made some changes. When was the last time you tried to book an RV spot at a camp ground? Some are booked all summer long to capacity! Some if they added just a but more could raise some serious revenue with out to much output of money, or increase in Maintenance cost.... I understand they WANT to keep the park in a time capsule and change nothing... Unfortunately that is not the real world, and at some point they will dragged kicking ad screaming to the hard choices. The bad part is IF they made some changes before the HAD to they could painlessly make the changes upgrades necessary to stay relevant with the times. :twocents:
Post by: fireweed on October 27, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
Post by: Curly on October 27, 2012, 03:19:13 PM
saw a Clint Didier (running for commissioner of public lands) said he would make state lands accessible again. Could just be empty promises, but we know goldmark screwed us hunters with the discover pass. Anyone who says he didn't do it, and the legislature did, is in the dark.
Cool. 8) I was hoping Didier would say that. Now I will just have to cross my fingers that he gets elected and actually helps do something about the discover pass. Then I can actually use DNR land again. :tup:
BTW - I was going to vote for Didier anyway, even if he hadn't said anything about the DP. I also think that with a little leadership from Goldmark, the DP would have been limited to only being req'd at Campgrounds and improved trailheads/rec areas.
Post by: Cap.Silver on October 27, 2012, 03:24:29 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 27, 2012, 03:44:08 PM
Post by: Highcountry360 on October 27, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Post by: KenPCPilot on October 27, 2012, 05:18:00 PM
Anyone who thinks that $30 goes to state land is blind. This is just an excuse for them to reallocate funds to pay for the TOP HEAVY government in this frickin state, Democrats have all these programs and no way to pay for them!!!!!!!!I don't mind paying for use of state land. with that said i agree we need to be in charge of allocating
Post by: jtw on October 28, 2012, 09:32:35 PM
I for one don't want to buy DP .The state has to have some sort of accounting system,right? It should be transparent and we should be able to see .........like quickbooks - you hit a button and you can see where funds went ,how much etc..... I would like to know ,what happens if one of us has to go to court because of the fine ,what would happen ? Last time I went to court it didn't play well ..........got Nazi judge ..... :chuckle:
I believe all financial data is open to public disclosure.
Post by: fireweed on October 29, 2012, 07:29:11 AM
Should the state continue to require drivers to pay for a Discover Pass to park on DNR recreation lands?
Clint Didier: Candidate response is not yet available.
Peter J. Goldmark: Absolutely. With the state budget in its current situation, we need our users to help share the costs of keeping our all state lands open for recreation.
Read more here: http://c3.thevoterguide.org/v/tacoma12/race-detail.do?id=10638901#storylink=cpy (http://c3.thevoterguide.org/v/tacoma12/race-detail.do?id=10638901#storylink=cpy)
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on October 29, 2012, 07:46:07 AM
Post by: 33 Winchester on November 17, 2012, 03:06:02 PM
Me too.
It is a regressive tax. Chump change to folks with money but punitive for poor people and seniors on fixed incomes.
Fees are perturbations; they constrain use. They can serve as a government social engineering tool, along with subsidies for favored groups and activities.
Pay to play programs have a poor performance record. If you follow the history and court cases of the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, you know the problems with the America The Beautiful Pass. Fees work where you have turnstiles or toll booths, but public lands agencies have inevitable trouble administering a broad access program such as the Discover Pass. I too have noticed several land users without passes.
In the free market, prices are agreed upon between buyer and seller by definition. Competition protects a range of options and moderates prices. No such mechanism exists in the public sector. For instance, in British Columbia some of the moving waters require a Classified Waters fishing license in addition to the nonresident alien license. In the cutthroat waters of SE BC the daily CW license for nonresidents started out at $20 per day, but went to $40 per day just because government has the power to charge anything they want to charge. Government fees are coercive by nature.
As far as I can recall, every state, province and country I have been in claims to be supportive of recreation and tourism. Recreation user fees are the greatest threat ever to those activities. Washington might as well hang out a NOT WELCOME sign at the border.
Here is the real question: If someone launched an initiative to kill the Discover Pass and require the state to adequately fund state lands, would you support the initiative?
Post by: Knocker of rocks on November 17, 2012, 03:43:09 PM
Clint Didier: Candidate response is not yet available.
The Didier campiagn in a nut shell.
Post by: Mudman on November 17, 2012, 03:44:47 PM
Post by: Curly on November 17, 2012, 03:57:07 PM
Here is the real question: If someone launched an initiative to kill the Discover Pass and require the state to adequately fund state lands, would you support the initiative?
Yes. :tup:
Post by: JakeLand on November 17, 2012, 10:32:22 PM
Post by: cuzsis on December 26, 2012, 10:22:27 PM
It's not like "Well, some people use it and some don't." Just about everyone uses public land at some point in their life, whether it's a trip to the park, to the beach, to the woods for a hike, going hunting, going fishing....
Public land is also the last recreation poor people have. I don't know how many other folks have been there, but when the only entertainment you can afford is a gallon of gas to get you to the lake (with your pb&j sandwiches) suddenly forking over another $10-$30 can put an end to the trip just like that.
The state has frittered away money on lots of useless and stupid ideas. Now they threaten to close things people use in order to twist their arms into paying more for stuff they already pay for through taxes! :bash:
I hate the Discover Pass and what it represents. :twocents:
Post by: villageidiot on January 06, 2013, 09:09:04 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 06, 2013, 09:15:42 AM
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2013, 09:34:48 AM
I think making people pay to use public land is terrible.
Get use to it. With the impending federal budget cuts don't be surprised to see more federal lands requiring some type of parking/access pass.
Post by: trophyhunt on January 06, 2013, 09:40:14 AM
I don't think getting use to it is the right attitude, so what's next, if they do decide to take other freedoms away (walking in our forest for free)like guns do we just get use to it? Those mountains are public land and they have already been paid for by a mulitude of taxes and fees, gov and state need to manage their money a little bit better in my opinion.I think making people pay to use public land is terrible.
Get use to it. With the impending federal budget cuts don't be surprised to see more federal lands requiring some type of parking/access pass.
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2013, 09:43:47 AM
I don't think getting use to it is the right attitude, so what's next, if they do decide to take other freedoms away (walking in our forest for free)like guns do we just get use to it? Those mountains are public land and they have already been paid for by a mulitude of taxes and fees, gov and state need to manage their money a little bit better in my opinion.I think making people pay to use public land is terrible.
Get use to it. With the impending federal budget cuts don't be surprised to see more federal lands requiring some type of parking/access pass.
I'm just saying don't be surprised when the federal agencies start charging for use/access.
Post by: trophyhunt on January 06, 2013, 09:51:18 AM
Post by: Taco280AI on January 06, 2013, 09:54:17 AM
You want to fish fresh water? Pay up. Oh, you want to fish this area of fresh water? Pay up some more. Oh you want this too... and so it goes.
Washington hunting license $xx. What can you hunt with it? Deer, no. Elk, no. Cougar, no. Turkey, no. Need tags if you actually want to hunt with your hunting license. Hunting license by itself is pretty much useless. You have a hunting license and appropriate tag and want to hunt in unit ______? Too bad! Now you need an access pass!
I like how Alabama does their hunting license system (first year hunting here). Spent $25.05 on it. What can I hunt with it? Deer, yes! And not just one, but three! Turkey, yes! Not just one, but five! Hogs, yes! As many as you want!
Post by: cooltimber on January 06, 2013, 09:54:53 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on January 06, 2013, 09:59:10 AM
I don't think getting use to it is the right attitude, so what's next, if they do decide to take other freedoms away (walking in our forest for free)like guns do we just get use to it? Those mountains are public land and they have already been paid for by a mulitude of taxes and fees, gov and state need to manage their money a little bit better in my opinion.I think making people pay to use public land is terrible.
Get use to it. With the impending federal budget cuts don't be surprised to see more federal lands requiring some type of parking/access pass.
I'm just saying don't be surprised when the federal agencies start charging for use/access.
They already are.
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2013, 10:03:35 AM
I don't think getting use to it is the right attitude, so what's next, if they do decide to take other freedoms away (walking in our forest for free)like guns do we just get use to it? Those mountains are public land and they have already been paid for by a mulitude of taxes and fees, gov and state need to manage their money a little bit better in my opinion.I think making people pay to use public land is terrible.
Get use to it. With the impending federal budget cuts don't be surprised to see more federal lands requiring some type of parking/access pass.
I'm just saying don't be surprised when the federal agencies start charging for use/access.
They already are.
Only in certain areas. The USFS it's mainly the USFS NW Forest Pass at trailheads. BLM as far as I know only has one day use area requiring a fee/pass and that is the Yakima River Canyon. I don't believe any of the USFWS lands on the eastside where you can hunt/fish require a pass
Post by: lokidog on January 06, 2013, 10:04:57 AM
I think making people pay to use public land is terrible.
Get use to it. With the impending federal budget cuts don't be surprised to see more federal lands requiring some type of parking/access pass.
Yeah, and if Gagoire gets in a management position, expect it to be even worse. After all, she did such a good job at t he state level. :bash:
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2013, 10:06:55 AM
Against, cause they will always come up with another fee for something else, just like with fishing.
You want to fish fresh water? Pay up. Oh, you want to fish this area of fresh water? Pay up some more. Oh you want this too... and so it goes.
Washington hunting license $xx. What can you hunt with it? Deer, no. Elk, no. Cougar, no. Turkey, no. Need tags if you actually want to hunt with your hunting license. Hunting license by itself is pretty much useless. You have a hunting license and appropriate tag and want to hunt in unit ______? Too bad! Now you need an access pass!
I like how Alabama does their hunting license system (first year hunting here). Spent $25.05 on it. What can I hunt with it? Deer, yes! And not just one, but three! Turkey, yes! Not just one, but five! Hogs, yes! As many as you want!
The economy is different in the south then here. Is that the reason things are more expensive here regarding hunting/fishing? Maybe yes, maybe no.
In terms of needing more licenses/permits. There are some other states that are worse. I know of states that if you want to fish a certain river system you need a permit. Imagine needing a puget sound river permit, a coastal washington river permit, columbia river permit, etc. All we have here is the columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement.
Post by: lokidog on January 06, 2013, 10:16:33 AM
Against, cause they will always come up with another fee for something else, just like with fishing.
You want to fish fresh water? Pay up. Oh, you want to fish this area of fresh water? Pay up some more. Oh you want this too... and so it goes.
Washington hunting license $xx. What can you hunt with it? Deer, no. Elk, no. Cougar, no. Turkey, no. Need tags if you actually want to hunt with your hunting license. Hunting license by itself is pretty much useless. You have a hunting license and appropriate tag and want to hunt in unit ______? Too bad! Now you need an access pass!
I like how Alabama does their hunting license system (first year hunting here). Spent $25.05 on it. What can I hunt with it? Deer, yes! And not just one, but three! Turkey, yes! Not just one, but five! Hogs, yes! As many as you want!
The economy is different in the south then here. Is that the reason things are more expensive here regarding hunting/fishing? Maybe yes, maybe no.
In terms of needing more licenses/permits. There are some other states that are worse. I know of states that if you want to fish a certain river system you need a permit. Imagine needing a puget sound river permit, a coastal washington river permit, columbia river permit, etc. All we have here is the columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement.
Not quite accurate there BigT, we also need freshwater and saltwater endorsements and in the saltwater you only get to fish for a couple of things.
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2013, 10:19:13 AM
Against, cause they will always come up with another fee for something else, just like with fishing.
You want to fish fresh water? Pay up. Oh, you want to fish this area of fresh water? Pay up some more. Oh you want this too... and so it goes.
Washington hunting license $xx. What can you hunt with it? Deer, no. Elk, no. Cougar, no. Turkey, no. Need tags if you actually want to hunt with your hunting license. Hunting license by itself is pretty much useless. You have a hunting license and appropriate tag and want to hunt in unit ______? Too bad! Now you need an access pass!
I like how Alabama does their hunting license system (first year hunting here). Spent $25.05 on it. What can I hunt with it? Deer, yes! And not just one, but three! Turkey, yes! Not just one, but five! Hogs, yes! As many as you want!
The economy is different in the south then here. Is that the reason things are more expensive here regarding hunting/fishing? Maybe yes, maybe no.
In terms of needing more licenses/permits. There are some other states that are worse. I know of states that if you want to fish a certain river system you need a permit. Imagine needing a puget sound river permit, a coastal washington river permit, columbia river permit, etc. All we have here is the columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement.
Not quite accurate there BigT, we also need freshwater and saltwater endorsements and in the saltwater you only get to fish for a couple of things.
You don't need a freshwater or saltwater endorsement. You either get a fresh license, a salt license, or a combo. An endorsement is something in addition to a license. For example you just can't go fishing with only having a columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement, you need that in addition to a license.
Post by: Wazukie on January 06, 2013, 10:21:41 AM
Post by: lokidog on January 06, 2013, 10:37:31 AM
Against, cause they will always come up with another fee for something else, just like with fishing.
You want to fish fresh water? Pay up. Oh, you want to fish this area of fresh water? Pay up some more. Oh you want this too... and so it goes.
Washington hunting license $xx. What can you hunt with it? Deer, no. Elk, no. Cougar, no. Turkey, no. Need tags if you actually want to hunt with your hunting license. Hunting license by itself is pretty much useless. You have a hunting license and appropriate tag and want to hunt in unit ______? Too bad! Now you need an access pass!
I like how Alabama does their hunting license system (first year hunting here). Spent $25.05 on it. What can I hunt with it? Deer, yes! And not just one, but three! Turkey, yes! Not just one, but five! Hogs, yes! As many as you want!
The economy is different in the south then here. Is that the reason things are more expensive here regarding hunting/fishing? Maybe yes, maybe no.
In terms of needing more licenses/permits. There are some other states that are worse. I know of states that if you want to fish a certain river system you need a permit. Imagine needing a puget sound river permit, a coastal washington river permit, columbia river permit, etc. All we have here is the columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement.
Not quite accurate there BigT, we also need freshwater and saltwater endorsements and in the saltwater you only get to fish for a couple of things.
You don't need a freshwater or saltwater endorsement. You either get a fresh license, a salt license, or a combo. An endorsement is something in addition to a license. For example you just can't go fishing with only having a columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement, you need that in addition to a license.
How disingenuous, it still costs $$ whatever you call it. But that is what most government is about, sucking more money out of citizens and trying to take more control. BigT, I appreciate your helpfulness on some things here, but you still represent the government that wants to take more and provide/allow less.
Sorry to the OP for getting off subject.
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2013, 10:44:31 AM
But to be fare, it wasn't that long ago that all you needed was a "fishing license".
From the 1997 WDFW Fishing regs:
Food Fish License: Typically saltwater, including salmon
Pugest Sound Enhancement: Required for food fish in MA 5-13 and Lk WA
Game Fish License: Typically lakes and rivers
Steelhead License: Pretty obvious
Warmwater Game Fish Enhancement: Reguired for bass, channel catfish, crappie, tiger musky, and walleye
Shellfish/Seaweed: Same as now
And in 2012:
Freshwater License
Saltwater License
Shellfish Seaweed
Combo
Columbia River Salmon/Steelhead Endorsement
So from 1997 to 2012 we no longer have a "Warmwater Game Fish Enhancement" endorsement, no longer have a steelhead license as it is included in your "regular" license, and no longer have the "Puget Sound Enhancement". The thing we have "gained" is the "columbia river salmon/steelhead endorsement"
Post by: duckmen1 on January 18, 2013, 10:34:29 AM
Post by: Fishmasterdan on January 20, 2013, 07:38:36 AM
For the record I am against the illegal pass. Public land is just that.
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 10:04:05 AM
I know several people that are so tired of this state they refuse to buy anything. Licenses, tags, pass, ect. A ticket is cheaper than the all the stupid things we have to buy.
Lets see
Discover Pass = $30
Fine For being parked without the pass = $99
Fine for driving without the pass = $203
Unless my math is wrong, the Pass is NOT cheaper then the ticket :dunno:
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 10:07:52 AM
I thought I'd pitch in my thought on the subject. I am against the discover pass because before this happened we were able to actually have fun in the state land responsibly. Now since the discover pass became, we have lost many roads, dug out to the point you can't even walk it. Makes hunting access harder to reach the areas you want to get off road. Target shooting has been affected, which is good and bad. The problem with this is signs are posted saying it is ok to target shoot as long as your not littering doing it, using explosive targets, shooting in safe direction with backstop, etc. But underneath that sign it says prohibited will be prosecuted. And my other problem is no body patrols the area, so everybody doesn't get the pass and we are the only ones paying. It's just been irritating since the pass was created.
I have not seen a single road closed since the Discover Pass law. All of the WDFW/DNR Roads I know of that have been closed were prior to the Discover Pass. I am sure there have been road closures, but to say "we have lost many roads" I can't see as being correct. In fact DNR has actually OPENED DNR areas that had been closed for several years since the Discover Pass went into effect.
WDFW, DNR, and Parks do patrol the areas and enforce the laws. Over a thousand Discover Pass tickets have been written since the law was enacted.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 20, 2013, 10:21:52 AM
I thought I'd pitch in my thought on the subject. I am against the discover pass because before this happened we were able to actually have fun in the state land responsibly. Now since the discover pass became, we have lost many roads, dug out to the point you can't even walk it. Makes hunting access harder to reach the areas you want to get off road. Target shooting has been affected, which is good and bad. The problem with this is signs are posted saying it is ok to target shoot as long as your not littering doing it, using explosive targets, shooting in safe direction with backstop, etc. But underneath that sign it says prohibited will be prosecuted. And my other problem is no body patrols the area, so everybody doesn't get the pass and we are the only ones paying. It's just been irritating since the pass was created.
WDFW, DNR, and Parks do patrol the areas and enforce the laws. Over a thousand Discover Pass tickets have been written since the law was enacted.
Writing tickets and collecting on them are two different things. I'll bet that tickets written to illegals are never collected on--if they even bother to write them.....
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 10:31:05 AM
I thought I'd pitch in my thought on the subject. I am against the discover pass because before this happened we were able to actually have fun in the state land responsibly. Now since the discover pass became, we have lost many roads, dug out to the point you can't even walk it. Makes hunting access harder to reach the areas you want to get off road. Target shooting has been affected, which is good and bad. The problem with this is signs are posted saying it is ok to target shoot as long as your not littering doing it, using explosive targets, shooting in safe direction with backstop, etc. But underneath that sign it says prohibited will be prosecuted. And my other problem is no body patrols the area, so everybody doesn't get the pass and we are the only ones paying. It's just been irritating since the pass was created.
WDFW, DNR, and Parks do patrol the areas and enforce the laws. Over a thousand Discover Pass tickets have been written since the law was enacted.
Writing tickets and collecting on them are two different things. I'll bet that tickets written to illegals are never collected on--if they even bother to write them.....
Well here's the thing. Under state law these violations are either a parking citation (for the parking violation) or a natural resource infraction (for the driving). Being that these are not criminal offenses no warrants are issued, since they are not a traffic infraction no licenses are suspended. Now technically under state law someone who does not pay their fine for an infraction can be charged with contempt of court. However there is no district court in this state that has the time to go after people who failed to pay the fine for a natural resouce or a non-traffic infraction.
Unfortunately it is just the nature of the game :dunno:
Post by: TheHunt on January 20, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 02:14:21 PM
Big text what area do you go out to maybe I'm in a different DNA chunk of land than you. Digging out roads within the past year was during the discover pass right. I know of a bridge and four other roads that have been taken out in the chunk I'm at alone. Digging out ditck cuts across the road down to the end making it almost impossible to walk even is not my imagination. On top of digging out they put as much trash wood and crap down it as possible.also even the main line was dug out and you have a round about way up the ridge and back down for no reason now.Only since the pass has things got more restricted in this area.
By the way I'm talking Elbe hills.
The DP has nothing to do with digging up roads or bridges. These are roads that have been designated for decommission. Probably been planned for years. Most of it due to upkeep and or stream damage.
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 02:38:28 PM
Big text what area do you go out to maybe I'm in a different DNA chunk of land than you. Digging out roads within the past year was during the discover pass right. I know of a bridge and four other roads that have been taken out in the chunk I'm at alone. Digging out ditck cuts across the road down to the end making it almost impossible to walk even is not my imagination. On top of digging out they put as much trash wood and crap down it as possible.also even the main line was dug out and you have a round about way up the ridge and back down for no reason now.Only since the pass has things got more restricted in this area.
By the way I'm talking Elbe hills.
The DP has nothing to do with digging up roads or bridges. These are roads that have been designated for decommission. Probably been planned for years. Most of it due to upkeep and or stream damage.
:yeah:
And duckmen. The DNR Officer that covers Pierce County as well as WDFW Officers patrol Elbe Hills pretty frequently, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't patrol it.
There are people that get checked by Officers 10x a year, others go years without even seeing one, doesn't mean they aren't out there.
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 02:57:31 PM
Big tex
There may be patrol some times but I think there should be more.
Once again sorry for thinking that some of the money used for the pass needs to get used toward what the pass is for.
Everyone wants more enforcement, and there are stats to support this. Doesn't matter if its DNR, WDFW, USFS, or BLM.
Up until a few months ago one DNR Officer covered King, Pierce, Mason, and Kitsap Counties. A new Officer position was created on the olympic peninsula so now the Officer won't have to patrol Mason and Kitsap Counties as often, and will be able to concentrate more on Pierce and King Counties. However with that said the majority of the DNR lands between King and Pierce Counties are in King County, as are many of the problems that occur on DNR lands, and the higher visitation. So this officer has historically patrolled King County DNR lands more then others in his patrol area. And even with the addition of the officer on the peninsula he still does need to patrol areas in Kitsap and Mason Counties, just not as often.
Also, only about 15% of DNR's portion of the Discover Pass funding goes to enforcement.
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 03:02:36 PM
56
Hunters Rights - Legislation - Activism - 2nd Amendment / Re: WDFW Vehicle Access Pass Legislation
« on: January 17, 2013, 05:29:07 PM »
Quote from: gaddy on January 17, 2013, 05:25:50 PM
i still dont see were allocations of funds are addressed? why is it that the state parks get the bulk & why are the counties in which citations are issued getting all funds instead of a split for the issuing agencies.
This bill does nothing to the funds.
FYI, actually effective summer 2012 the fines from citations went into the Discover Pass account. 8% to DNR, 8% to WDFW, and 84% to Parks.
Exactly my point. This is from one of your prior posts. As far as money going toward parks.my access this year changed at alder too. No launching your boat for the rest of the season at either boat launch on a year round fishing lake. Funny how this works. Always launch this time of year in the past.
I don't see what your point is. 8% of fines and sales go to WDFW, 8% to DNR, 84% to Parks.
Alder Lake has nothing to do with the Discover Pass since it is under Tacoma Power, not the state
Post by: trophyhunt on January 20, 2013, 03:14:25 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 03:15:07 PM
Your telling me that one officer four the past four counties and now present two counties is enough for that big of population in this area.
I think more of the money we are paying should go to enforcement not just a total of .53 percent of the over all money from the pass. That isn't even 1 percent. If you wonder how I got that number take the 8 percent of dnr funds divided by you 15 percent of the dnr funds.
No I am not saying one officer for King and Pierce is good. You could probably have 2 DNR Officers in King and one in Pierce which just covers Elbe since thats where most the land is. But as a law enforcement agency DNR is at it's highest staffing right now. There was a study done 3 years ago and it said WDFW should add 100 officers just to provide adequate staffing, not great, but adequate.
If you want more DNR and WDFW Officers tell your state rep. Under Gregoire's proposed budget the only state law enforcement agency set to gain officers is 10 more officers for the Liquor Control Board due to all of their issues under 1183 and now 502. WSP, WDFW, DNR, Gambling will not see an increase in officers. WDFW asked for one more officer and one more sergeant, it was denied.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 03:29:15 PM
And I don't think the discover pass was created by dnr or wdfw. Gregoire had a part in that to and you notice since she got in to office wdfw employes have been laid off because of her budgetting. Resulting in lack of enforcement. Not all her fault but she hasn't helped.
Those agencies may have not created the actual DP, but I know for a fact that those agencies have had ideas of there own passes for years.
I never liked Gregoire but if you haven't noticed, our whole country was in a recession. Not just WDFW employees lost their jobs and not just because of the former gov.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 03:30:41 PM
Probaly already commented on this post but when I see discover pass on this site I have to comment. They can suck my big toe, (for lack of a better phrase since everything on here is rated pg). NO way will I ever buy one, they need to manage OUR money a little better. You want to charge me to take a walk on public land.... :bash: :bash: :bash:. And after I just spent 114 dollars to get my license and tags as a resident hunter! I hope they lose money trying to sell these bull crap passes.
Not all of it is public land. Some of it is trust land that is managed by state agencies. You don't pay taxes on it.
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 03:32:52 PM
Probaly already commented on this post but when I see discover pass on this site I have to comment. They can suck my big toe, (for lack of a better phrase since everything on here is rated pg). NO way will I ever buy one, they need to manage OUR money a little better. You want to charge me to take a walk on public land.... :bash: :bash: :bash:. And after I just spent 114 dollars to get my license and tags as a resident hunter! I hope they lose money trying to sell these bull crap passes.
Not all of it is public land. Some of it is trust land that is managed by state agencies. You don't pay taxes on it.
WDFW also manages some land for private landowners.
Also, your license fees go 100% to WDFW. DNR sees no funding from fishing and hunting licenses.
Post by: madcow41 on January 20, 2013, 03:38:45 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 03:42:14 PM
Im for it, it keeps the riff raff out and holds them accountable however, it is a pain if joe random wants to go our and have fun with his family and annoying that I have to have both passes to get everywhere that I want to go. they should just bump up prices of tags by a dollar or so and have an all inclusive one for "Sportsman"
I wish it kept the riff raff out of the CF. Not enought enforcement most of the time, though I did see more during modern rifle. Even saw DNR turning people away. Not giving tickets, but telling them to leave.
Post by: trophyhunt on January 20, 2013, 03:51:24 PM
Im for it, it keeps the riff raff out and holds them accountable however, it is a pain if joe random wants to go our and have fun with his family and annoying that I have to have both passes to get everywhere that I want to go. they should just bump up prices of tags by a dollar or so and have an all inclusive one for "Sportsman"I don't think it keeps the riff raff out completly, I'm not riff raff but I've never bought a pass and I go hiking when I want with out a pass and I've never been ticketed. The state needs to budget our money better and not just come up with ways to get us to pay more. I bet there is a hundred ways to get more money out of us to get to pay for everything, and I'm sure they will come up with more ways but where does it stop?
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 03:52:16 PM
That's what I was saying but bigtex jumped my case for saying not enough enforcement. Well I must be different I guess.
I don't think it is about you being different. I think it is the way you are delivering your message and that some of that information is incorrect.
Honestly, I hate the pass myself, but I also hate to see misinformation being posted.
Post by: TheHunt on January 20, 2013, 03:57:13 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 04:03:48 PM
What miss info did I post other than alder being private owned not state. I even told I was wrong on that and deleted it not to miss inform. Everything I said about Elbe was not a lie
I'd like to know what you think I mis informed on. Roads dug out, signs posted, lack of patrol. Heck I have heard this from everyone else to at one point or another
Let's clarify. I did not say you lied. I said misinformation.
Below are three things you mentioned that are tied to the DP and are not entirely true. Again, I am not for the pass but just trying to keep the information factual.
1. we all already pay prior to the discover pass on things like taxes and such.
2. Now since the discover pass became, we have lost many roads, dug out to the point you can't even walk it.
3. Target shooting has been affected
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 04:05:38 PM
Let me ask rather than state a fact. The main line in Elbe hills was re routed instead of going straight through. It now makes you go up and around the ridge by the Orv area instead of staying on the flat road
How does the DP contribute to that?
Post by: bigtex on January 20, 2013, 04:16:00 PM
Go up and look at the signs about target shooting
Do you not pay taxes to the state
And roads have been dug out
All I said is since I started paying for the discover pass things have gotten harder to do up there.
And you said it yourself there was lack of patrol
I'm saying the same thing others have said.
No you are blaming the Discover Pass for target shooting problems, road closures, etc. Nobody else has said that
Post by: billythekidrock on January 20, 2013, 04:47:17 PM
Like I said this was not to mis inform or get on someone's bad side. It ask for opinion on discover pass and I gave mine. Sorry
No reason to be sorry.
I don't think your on anyones bad side. I think you are having a hard time communicating your points and from my side it looks like you are blaming the DP for the problems listed above.
Post by: duckmen1 on January 20, 2013, 04:51:59 PM