MF hunters get better dates again

[Fullabull]

Ok, why is our state again providing special permit dates for MF hunters right in the middle of the best/prime rut dates? Also the ML's are also getting prime time hunts while archery keep getting pushed back on dates. This make absolutely no sense when these hunters can reach out so far with their weapons and archery hunters are so limited in their capabilities with the equipment we choose.
 I am so frustrated with this state, I am hunting Idaho where archery hunters get to actually hunt like they should!

[bobcat]

What exactly are you referring to? The 2017 seasons have been set for three years now and nothing has changed.

[Bigshooter]

 

[JimmyHoffa]

What exactly are you referring to? The 2017 seasons have been set for three years now and nothing has changed.

Think he's talking about the quality bull permit dates for Modern vs Muzzy vs Bow.  (Can use a bow in modern and put in for those permits.)

[bear hunter]

What exactly are you referring to? The 2017 seasons have been set for three years now and nothing has changed.

Think he's talking about the quality bull permit dates for Modern vs Muzzy vs Bow.  (Can use a bow in modern and put in for those permits.)

[bobcat]

Okay, but what I'm saying is the seasons were set three years ago so why complain now? Soon they will be setting the seasons for the next three year cycle (2018-2020) so that is where we could see some changes.

[Fullabull]

Sorry Bobcat, got an email today on providing input on 2017/18 proposed hunting season changes. I assumed there are added changes if they are asking for input.

[Antlershed]

Pretty much all the changes this year are just adjusting the number of permits for a few areas. Feel free to comment that they should swap the MF and Archery dates though. I'd switch back to rifle. 

[bobcat]

Well, the 2017 special permit numbers and seasons are posted so yes, that is new information, but it's all pretty much the same as it was in 2015 and 2016.

[bobcat]

Here's a link to it for anyone who hasn't already seen it:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2017/wsr_17-04-103.pdf

[Magnum_Willys]

Ok, why is our state again providing special permit dates for MF hunters right in the middle of the best/prime rut dates? Also the ML's are also getting prime time hunts while archery keep getting pushed back on dates. This make absolutely no sense when these hunters can reach out so far with their weapons and archery hunters are so limited in their capabilities with the equipment we choose.
 I am so frustrated with this state, I am hunting Idaho where archery hunters get to actually hunt like they should!

Why do the archery hunters always get the general season during the rut?  Wouldn't it make sense to rotate the seasons to be fair to all - every third year your weapon of choice would be in september be it archery / ml / mf

[Reidus]

Wow

[dreamunelk]

Ok, why is our state again providing special permit dates for MF hunters right in the middle of the best/prime rut dates? Also the ML's are also getting prime time hunts while archery keep getting pushed back on dates. This make absolutely no sense when these hunters can reach out so far with their weapons and archery hunters are so limited in their capabilities with the equipment we choose.
 I am so frustrated with this state, I am hunting Idaho where archery hunters get to actually hunt like they should!

It was all set in the three year package that was discussed on here with links to comment.  Did you comment?

Next one is coming up soon.  Take the time to read and then comment!

It is a very open process.  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

[dreamunelk]

Ok, why is our state again providing special permit dates for MF hunters right in the middle of the best/prime rut dates? Also the ML's are also getting prime time hunts while archery keep getting pushed back on dates. This make absolutely no sense when these hunters can reach out so far with their weapons and archery hunters are so limited in their capabilities with the equipment we choose.
 I am so frustrated with this state, I am hunting Idaho where archery hunters get to actually hunt like they should!

Why do the archery hunters always get the general season during the rut?  Wouldn't it make sense to rotate the seasons to be fair to all - every third year your weapon of choice would be in september be it archery / ml / mf

MF general rut hunt?  That would be a catastrophe in Washington.

[Buzz2401]

The seasons are actually very fair.  Archery guys get the start of the rut and get out before all other hunters.  Muzzleloader guys get the peak of the rut.  Rifle hunters get the post rut when all the animals have been pushed all to hell.

[garrett89]

Who cares? Bow hunters can hunt any season with their bow. And bow season is generally longer than the other two any ways. 3 chances to go hunt and extended on just archery season. If anyone bow hunts there's zero reason to complain.

[jackelope]

The seasons are actually very fair.  Archery guys get the start of the rut and get out before all other hunters.  Muzzleloader guys get the peak of the rut.  Rifle hunters get the post rut when all the animals have been pushed all to hell.

Seems legit to me.

[Katmai Guy]

Who cares? Bow hunters can hunt any season with their bow. And bow season is generally longer than the other two any ways. 3 chances to go hunt and extended on just archery season. If anyone bow hunts there's zero reason to complain.

That's incorrect.  Everybody picks a weapon choice and hunts that season.  Only multi season recipients can hunt all se as on with archery gear.  Apologies in advance if I misunderstood your reasoning.

[garrett89]

Who cares? Bow hunters can hunt any season with their bow. And bow season is generally longer than the other two any ways. 3 chances to go hunt and extended on just archery season. If anyone bow hunts there's zero reason to complain.

That's incorrect.  Everybody picks a weapon choice and hunts that season.  Only multi season recipients can hunt all se as on with archery gear.  Apologies in advance if I misunderstood your reasoning.

Ok. I interpreted the rules as use the weapon for that season or lesser weapon. I didn't see anything written that you had to be multi season permitted.

[bobcat]

It's not true that muzzleloader season is at the peak of the rut. October 7-13. How's that the peak when the rut is in September?

[Mfowl]

It's not true that muzzleloader season is at the peak of the rut. October 7-13. How's that the peak when the rut is in September?

I hate the ML season this year! I will be switching to full archery or Multiseason from ML just because of these dates. If you're an ML guy push to get the pregeneral season quality bull tags back during the next season setting process!

[bobcat]

The muzzleloader quality permit season opens September 30.

[Browndawg]

Peak of the rut falls between 4-5 days either side of the autumn equinox which I think is the 22nd or 24th of September this year. Washington sucks compared to Oregon for archery OTC. They have a full month that ends during the peak of the rut. Washington has two weeks. On the other hand, OTC for MF in WA West side is 12 days and OR is 4 for any bull on the coast.

Conclusion... hunt OR archery, hunt WA MF.

The issue I have... I hunt Lewis River unit with 3 point or better. Most bulls taken out of there are rag horned deformed bulls. I feel that ANY BULL or SPIKE ONLY would bring better genetics back to the herd. My

[JJB11B]

We should just go to a draw only system in Washington. No more OTC tags.

[garrett89]

We should just go to a draw only system in Washington. No more OTC tags.

How about no. It would only benefit those who input for a draw. I don't like a chance to go. I already miss out by buying my tags and something comes up for certain game seasons as is. It's already a chance if work or something else happens.

[JJB11B]

We should just go to a draw only system in Washington. No more OTC tags.

How about no. It would only benefit those who input for a draw. I don't like a chance to go. I already miss out by buying my tags and something comes up for certain game seasons as is. It's already a chance if work or something else happens.

see, it could always be worse...I wasn't serious about drawing. I was making a point

[M_ray]

  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

Tell me how the Muzzy guys got more opportunity? The Muzzy season is 6 days long and is a Saturday thru the next Friday. Its been this way for over ten years now and hasnt changed but for some reason many Archers are under the impression that the Muzzy guys got more on the last 3 year plan. 

[JJB11B]

  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

Tell me how the Muzzy guys got more opportunity? The Muzzy season is 6 days long and is a Saturday thru the next Friday. Its been this way for over ten years now and hasnt changed but for some reason many Archers are under the impression that the Muzzy guys got more on the last 3 year plan. 

Muzzy guys around here get the shaft as far as deer and elk...

[M_ray]

The seasons are actually very fair.  Archery guys get the start of the rut and get out before all other hunters.  Muzzleloader guys get the peak of the rut.  Rifle hunters get the post rut when all the animals have been pushed all to hell.

No not true the Muzzy season is Oct 7th-13 ... thats hardley the peak? but its winding down pretty good by the 7th 

[JimmyHoffa]

  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

Tell me how the Muzzy guys got more opportunity? The Muzzy season is 6 days long and is a Saturday thru the next Friday. Its been this way for over ten years now and hasnt changed but for some reason many Archers are under the impression that the Muzzy guys got more on the last 3 year plan. 

Probably referring to the opening up of around twenty additional units for the early season.  IMO, they really got a pretty good win with that.

[Buzz2401]

Where I hunt muzzleloader is almost right in the heart of the rut.  But the rut also runs from late august through late October.  Anyone who says rut is only in September must not spend much time out in the woods.  I hunt modern and am out every single week from mid august through mid November.  There is usually much more rut activity in early October then any other time.  At least where I hunt.

[dreamunelk]

  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

Tell me how the Muzzy guys got more opportunity? The Muzzy season is 6 days long and is a Saturday thru the next Friday. Its been this way for over ten years now and hasnt changed but for some reason many Archers are under the impression that the Muzzy guys got more on the last 3 year plan. 

Probably referring to the opening up of around twenty additional units for the early season.  IMO, they really got a pretty good win with that.

More GMU's in both early and late equal opportunity. 

[M_ray]

  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

Tell me how the Muzzy guys got more opportunity? The Muzzy season is 6 days long and is a Saturday thru the next Friday. Its been this way for over ten years now and hasnt changed but for some reason many Archers are under the impression that the Muzzy guys got more on the last 3 year plan. 

Probably referring to the opening up of around twenty additional units for the early season.  IMO, they really got a pretty good win with that.

Yes you are right but its still only 6 days so what it boils down to is limited time in the field. With as expensive as this state is muzzy hunting is not the best value. I would be nice if it were at least to full weekends.
   

[M_ray]

  The fact is the muzzy hunters made a good argument an got more opportunity.  Have to see how there harvest compares to others to really have an opinion.

Tell me how the Muzzy guys got more opportunity? The Muzzy season is 6 days long and is a Saturday thru the next Friday. Its been this way for over ten years now and hasnt changed but for some reason many Archers are under the impression that the Muzzy guys got more on the last 3 year plan. 

Probably referring to the opening up of around twenty additional units for the early season.  IMO, they really got a pretty good win with that.

More GMU's in both early and late equal opportunity.

Thats funny  Have you seen the late units? What are they? Almota, prescott, Alkili stuff like that? Not really your prime areas with large herds not to mention the areas they offer are mostly private so it doesnt really benifit the avarage hunter. It was just a way to say that the muzzy's got more but it isnt more for most its more for those with ground. 

[M_ray]

Where I hunt muzzleloader is almost right in the heart of the rut.  But the rut also runs from late august through late October.  Anyone who says rut is only in September must not spend much time out in the woods.  I hunt modern and am out every single week from mid august through mid November.  There is usually much more rut activity in early October then any other time.  At least where I hunt.

  Yeah I have a spot that I really think the best time to hunt it with the most rutting activity is the 1st thru 10th of Oct. But it seems this is the exception not the rule compared to most other areas I hunt. 

[Fullabull]

I hunt on St. Helen's and every year I'm able to get bulls t o respond to my calling. Not a lot but enough to have good fun chasing them around trying to get close. Last year, the first year after they opened the unit to ML's I did not hear a bugle the entire season. I only saw two cows taken out of there during the two weeks I was there.

[sled]

Ok, why is our state again providing special permit dates for MF hunters right in the middle of the best/prime rut dates? Also the ML's are also getting prime time hunts while archery keep getting pushed back on dates. This make absolutely no sense when these hunters can reach out so far with their weapons and archery hunters are so limited in their capabilities with the equipment we choose.
 I am so frustrated with this state, I am hunting Idaho where archery hunters get to actually hunt like they should!

Why do the archery hunters always get the general season during the rut?  Wouldn't it make sense to rotate the seasons to be fair to all - every third year your weapon of choice would be in september be it archery / ml / mf

. It's fair for you to be able to switch methods.

[NW SURVEYOR]

Modern Firearm elk and deer hunter for 40+ years.
I have always thought that the bow and M/L hunters had a big advantage.
Sure, you have to get closer, but the equipment's getting better.
And at that time the elk are less spooked and maybe rutting.
By the time my season rolls around things are pretty shook up where I hunt.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
I bet the elk are happy to see the seasons end.


 

[popeshawnpaul]

Sorry,l I missed this thread.  Here is how we calculated it and allocated permits.  It was done on a quality bull basis.  What is a quality bull?  We argued it's a 6 point or better.  Fact is, MF takes less quality bulls than archers statistically.  9 years ago MF got rut permits because their quality numbers are down.  Those numbers are better now, obviously.  Still, archers have no room to recommend a change to help big bulls survive in this circumstance.  If there is a bull problem, everyone across the board will take a hit as we are as close now as ever.  Archers do get a tiny bit more if you factor in 5 points, but we don't get smaller bulls.  Archers get a higher percentage of cows instead.  Generally one values a small bull more than a cow.  Archers need opportunity on cows when biologically possible to get our numbers within range.

[grundy53]

Makes sense to me

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[Fullabull]

Paul, if you factor in special permits MF always take more quality bulls than the rest. I have posted the numbers on here multiple times. I was glad to see archers get some years closer to a better rut time but we still never see prime rut. Archery special draw tags should get time during prime time also. It is true that ML get better rut hunts than archery. I have hunted during all season dates and Sept 20 - Oct 15 or so are best rutting times to hunt.
Use fixed dates, Archery Sept 13-25, let archery permit holders get a couple more days past the 25th, then let MF permit holders have their time. ML permit holders can have their time in units non permit holders can't hunt. Then ML get their time.