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Author Topic: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd  (Read 5581 times)

Offline TriggerMike

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2019, 11:25:17 PM »
https://www.yakimaherald.com/sports/outdoors/troubling-decline-falling-elk-populations-bring-hunting-reductions/article_f8725d29-b19e-503d-af9a-0c1c18054831.html

Full article at the link above but two specific paragraphs in this that were the biggest takeaways for me are:

1.) "Local Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist Jeff Bernatowicz said no studies have been done on area calves and researchers don’t know why their survival numbers are historically low. Until that trend reverses, hunters must pay the price with fewer permits available and shortened seasons for archers."

Why have no studies been done on this?

2.) "Bernatowicz noted hunters could also see negative effects from a pair of factors outside their control. Access to the Yakima Training Center will be limited this fall by heavy training activity, and unofficial reports from one tribe show total tribal harvest may be exceeding the number of new branched bulls in the herd, according to the wildlife department."

So the tribe is self reporting that they're literally killing off the bulls? Killing more bulls then are being recruited as calves each year. Wow. Also the Colockum herd has declined as well. They're currently at 4,133 elk up there and the WDFW's goal is 6,000.
The colockum was an intentional herd reduction.  I believe they reduced their objectives as well....

According to the hunting prospects that were published last week, both herds are below their population objectives. And just a few years ago the Colockum herd was over 6,000 elk.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/02103/district_8_hunting_prospects_2019.pdf
The population objective was 6500 they reduced the objective to 4500 and still over killed the animals. It was a targeted reduction by the department to adress social tolerance. You seem to know all so I'll stop.
I'm not claiming to "know all". I quoted a news article and a published government document. And posted the links to both of those sources.

Offline jackson7

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2019, 11:28:47 PM »
Perhaps another part of the equation.
Anyone have a handle on how many deer and elk are poached by non natives.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2019, 11:30:49 PM »
I think some local bios need to take a walk around the woods. I've spent an absurd amount of time in the hills this year looking for elk and as I predicted, the cuts were very knee jerk. So many elk around and calf numbers are off the charts.
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Offline rtspring

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2019, 04:00:40 AM »
I think some local bios need to take a walk around the woods. I've spent an absurd amount of time in the hills this year looking for elk and as I predicted, the cuts were very knee jerk. So many elk around and calf numbers are off the charts.

You don’t say!!! Some people don’t know what the hell they are talking about!!!
I kill elk and eat elk, when I'm not, I'm thinking about killing elk and eating elk.

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Offline dvolmer

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2019, 08:33:08 AM »
It's hard to manage anything when the rules are so different between the parties involved.

Bingo!!!!  And now the increased demand for trophy hunting (driven by outdoor TV, Governor tags, and magazines etc, etc) the Natives are cashing in.  15 years ago, the natives took animals to feed their families. They could care less about horns and trophy size.  They just wanted a fat cow to get them through the winter. Now with the increase demand for trophy animals their hunting has changed.  Non-Native hunting has changed too.  The demand for trophy animals and the "trophy animal hunting experience" has had an interesting affect on hunting and future hunting opportunities.  A good matching set of elk sheds is worth hundreds of dollars.  a Great skull mount of trophy antlers are worth in the thousands.  There isn't an answer to all of this because their is no accountability and our liberal state will never be able to hold the natives accountable if they are actually over-harvesting.  It looks really bad for the long term for the non-resident native hunters in this state and the elk herds of the state.
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Offline dreamingbig

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2019, 10:23:45 AM »
It is a combination of factors.

1.  Increased predators - bear and cougar problem since baiting and hounds were banned

2.  Introduction of wolf - no management plan to speak of

3.  Continued Indian harvest with no intention of pulling back.  I say Indian because I have seen multiple bumper stickers lately that state, “you are on Indian land.”  So if they use the term I guess it is fair  game.

Idaho non resident tags sold out this year for a reason.


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Offline elkboy

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2019, 11:28:55 AM »
Perhaps another part of the equation.
Anyone have a handle on how many deer and elk are poached by non natives.
In most states, estimated to be equal to legal harvest.

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2019, 12:01:42 PM »
Alright, there's to much scientific possibilities being presented and that wasn't the purpose of this thread so let's keep this on track. Indians did it, all of it and only the Indians and that's final.







 :chuckle:
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Offline Tinmaniac

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2019, 12:30:41 PM »
Alright, there's to much scientific possibilities being presented and that wasn't the purpose of this thread so let's keep this on track. Indians did it, all of it and only the Indians and that's final.







 :chuckle:
Perhaps you could educate all of us on what your allowed to do while the rest of aren't.Seasons,bag limits what rules do you follow when off the rez while hunting and fishing.?.When off rez do the tribes follow rules set by the state to help sustain management objectives?Do the tribes open their doors and allow non -natives to hunt on the rez free of charge?What happens if I get caught hunting on the rez without permission?

Offline Special T

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2019, 12:44:42 PM »
I think some local bios need to take a walk around the woods. I've spent an absurd amount of time in the hills this year looking for elk and as I predicted, the cuts were very knee jerk. So many elk around and calf numbers are off the charts.

A couple of points that need to be highlighted. While anecdotal examples are useful they cannot be extrapolated across the whole herd. 2 years ago there was no snow to speak of to drive the elk down for a good count, and the season before had a bad winterkill. https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-01/district08.pdf

I understand that there are frustrations with Biologists, and some have a particular point or issue to drive home. If you think this about   Jeff Bernatowicz i suggest you ask around.

We know that high numbers of predators are an issue. We also know that while the Department doesnt have any wolves documented S of I 90 they know they are there. The combination of Cats and influence of wolves forcing elk back into the timber will have a huge effect. The yakima herd is the crown jewel of the state because of its size. WHEN predators are shown to reduce numbers, and then License purchases the department will take note. I believe some already understand this. My evidence is the change in how the director has treated predator related issues compared to past leadership
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Offline Special T

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2019, 12:46:47 PM »
Alright, there's to much scientific possibilities being presented and that wasn't the purpose of this thread so let's keep this on track. Indians did it, all of it and only the Indians and that's final.
 :chuckle:

So whats it gonna take for you and your buddies to start running more dogs on cats?

The Skagit valley has more than a few Tar Heals we could send you to train you up!
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2019, 01:50:35 PM »
Alright, there's to much scientific possibilities being presented and that wasn't the purpose of this thread so let's keep this on track. Indians did it, all of it and only the Indians and that's final.







 :chuckle:
Perhaps you could educate all of us on what your allowed to do while the rest of aren't.Seasons,bag limits what rules do you follow when off the rez while hunting and fishing.?.When off rez do the tribes follow rules set by the state to help sustain management objectives?Do the tribes open their doors and allow non -natives to hunt on the rez free of charge?What happens if I get caught hunting on the rez without permission?

Why should I continue to try? There's more than enough tribal experts already here. I've spent time upon time, I've done my due diligence, I've made the case and when I asked for a little help I got chastised here and within my own community.

After a while it just gets tiresome, old and eventually you just move on. I haven't quite moved on but I also haven't quit. I just pick an choose my battles even more carefully.

 :tup:
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2019, 01:51:51 PM »
Alright, there's to much scientific possibilities being presented and that wasn't the purpose of this thread so let's keep this on track. Indians did it, all of it and only the Indians and that's final.
 :chuckle:

So whats it gonna take for you and your buddies to start running more dogs on cats?

The Skagit valley has more than a few Tar Heals we could send you to train you up!

It would take a lot of scientificy stuff and someone to really push it
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
Not as Lean, Just as Mean, Still a Marine!
He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

"Around this camp, there's only one Chief; the rest are Indians!"

"Give me 15 more minutes, I was dreaming of Beavers!"

Offline dvolmer

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2019, 02:29:49 PM »
Another issue is the question, "What does it take to be native??".  The state fish biologist that I fish with told me that they have blue eyed blond haired "natives" that are using Native rights to fish and hunt in Washington and Oregon.  is it half? (not even close) or what to be considered native?  I think it is less than 1/4 or 1/8th.
Zonk Volmer

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2019, 02:52:30 PM »
Well when jerky is in demand you need to kill bulls
This *censored* and his followers have a lot to do with the destruction of OUR elk, Plat knows how many he kills, but I don't blame him for not throwing whitefoot to the flames, he is a tribal member.  I'd defend my family to the death as well. We will never know just how many bulls this guy and his buddies kill to sell jerky and antlers, but you know damn well its too many.  I respect the heck out of you plat, you know that, but it's time to call it like it is.  The yakama's need limits to the amount they kill, they need to follow their own rules.  Are the yakama's the only reason this herd is declining, no, but I'd bet my paycheck they are a huge part of it.  Cats, wolves, native over harvest by a FEW, and poaching by non natives.  But even poaching by non natives don't add up to the fast decline we have seen.  Flame on folks


Edit to remove name calling. Rainier10
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 12:11:51 PM by Rainier10 »
“In common with”..... not so much!!

 


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