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Author Topic: Legal/ethical opinion  (Read 3998 times)

Online jrebel

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2022, 10:33:34 AM »
Another ethical problem that presents every time I travel from Wenatchee to my property in the NE corner.....  I also see coyotes in farm fields / grass fields ect. that are privately owned.  I drive right by them and always think to myself.....would the owner care if you were whacking these vermin.  Most ranchers and farmers I know would love to have them shot....but w/out permission, I drive right by thinking it was a wasted opportunity.   :bash: :bash:  Keeping in mind these are wide open fields with no houses, barns, etc. in sight and clearly shooting around any homes is a strong no go.  Wonder if the WDFW would promote talking to land owners and posting

"feel free to shoot coyotes here" signs.   :chuckle: :chuckle: 

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2022, 10:36:42 AM »
I was going to pose the exact same question.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2022, 11:00:53 AM »
Another ethical problem that presents every time I travel from Wenatchee to my property in the NE corner.....  I also see coyotes in farm fields / grass fields ect. that are privately owned.  I drive right by them and always think to myself.....would the owner care if you were whacking these vermin.  Most ranchers and farmers I know would love to have them shot....but w/out permission, I drive right by thinking it was a wasted opportunity.   :bash: :bash:  Keeping in mind these are wide open fields with no houses, barns, etc. in sight and clearly shooting around any homes is a strong no go.  Wonder if the WDFW would promote talking to land owners and posting

"feel free to shoot coyotes here" signs.   :chuckle: :chuckle: 

Good post jrebel, here are a few thoughts I would like to offer everyone:

 - Don't assume all farmers and ranchers hate coyotes, not all do. In my experience ranchers have a a more prevalent disliking due to past experiences of predators impacting their livestock. Some farmers like coyotes because they eat a lot of mice and gophers which damage their crops.

 - Unless you have permission it is not legal to hunt on private land, the best option is to get permission in advance so when you see coyotes in some particular fields you can legally shoot them

 - Recently a young hunter received a ticket for shooting a cougar decoy that a WDFW warden had set up along a busy unpaved county road on private land right next to a popular public land hunting area near Colville, the hunter reportedly shot a few minutes after shooting hours and did not have permission, he lives very close to where he shot and may have thought it was ok to shoot a cougar there, especially since there have been so many cougar problems in Stevens County, but he got written up and WDFW reportedly confiscated his rifle and truck

 - So even if you think something is ok, be sure what you do is legal, and always get permission if it's private land, so you don't end up losing your rifle and your truck
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2022, 11:10:19 AM »
What!!

WDFW is using Cougar and Wolf decoys now?

That's a game changer, a big fat middle finger to the rural residents in the hardest predator impacted area of the state.

Why didn't the department warn of this sting like WSP does for red light cameras, school zone sting operations, failure to yeild to police during traffic stops for people who zip by police when they got someone pulled over, warning the public they're doing construction zone operations etc etc etc

Deterrence

WDFW showing up out of the blue with a wolf and cougar decoy in Steven's county without public outreach is merely looking for an example, head hunting.

This will backfire. 

« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 11:16:36 AM by KFhunter »

Online jrebel

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2022, 11:17:56 AM »
What!!

WDFW is using Cougar and Wolf decoys now?

That's a game changer, a big fat middle finger to the rural residents in the hardest predator impacted area of the state.

Why didn't the department warn of this sting like WSP does for red light cameras, school zone sting operations, failure to yeild to police during traffic stops for people who zip by police when they got someone pulled over, warning the public they're doing construction zone operations etc etc etc

Deterrence

WDFW showing up out of the blue with a wolf and cougar decoy in Steven's county without public outreach is merely looking for an example, head hunting.

This will backfire.

Clearly a case of entrapment.   :chuckle: :bash:

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2022, 11:19:58 AM »
What!!

WDFW is using Cougar and Wolf decoys now?

That's a game changer, a big fat finger to the rural residents in the hardest predator impacted area of the state.

Why did the department warn of this sting like WSP does for red light cameras, school zone sting operations, failure to yeild to police during traffic stops for people who zip by police when they got someone pulled over, warning the public they're doing construction zone operations etc etc etc

Deterrence

WDFW showing up out of tbe blue with a wolf and cougar decoy in Steven's county without public outreach is merely looking for an example, head hunting.

I can see if I was a warden and wanted to write tickets, a good place to do that would be in Stevens County using predator decoys.

I do think that is going to create even more trust issues in the northeast, many people already view the WDFW as the enemy of the people due to the lack of action on predator impacts in the whole area!

The guy who shot the cougar decoy probably thought he was doing the neighborhood a favor?
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2022, 12:04:13 PM »
A single "warden" doesn't just grab a decoy out of storage and go hunting for farm kids for the day.

It's an operation

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2022, 12:10:06 PM »
It sends a strong message to the residents of rural predator impacted areas
 
I've always said if the dept rolls out predator decoys then its gloves off, they have no interest in working with the public, no interest in predator tolerance building

All of the positive work that wss done with existing with predators is out the window

This is a new era of regime enforcement, it will backfire.  There's going to be more poaching of all animals, not less.

Online jrebel

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2022, 12:21:01 PM »
It sends a strong message to the residents of rural predator impacted areas
 
I've always said if the dept rolls out predator decoys then its gloves off, they have no interest in working with the public, no interest in predator tolerance building

All of the positive work that wss done with existing with predators is out the window

This is a new era of regime enforcement, it will backfire.  There's going to be more poaching of all animals, not less.

Though I 100% agree with the premise of your stance....it is still bad practice to shoot said predator on private land w/o permission.  It sounds like the kid was ticketed for shooting after hours and for shooting on land he didn't have permission to be on. 

If a hunter is willing to shoot predators on land w/o permission, I would draw a conclusion they would also shood deer / elk on land w/o permission.  I am far less concerned about the "few minutes past hunting hours" as I find this is often subjective to a persons watch setting.  I know my wife's clock in her toyota speeds up as time goes on. 

With all that being said....I don't like WDFW using predators as a way to entrap hunters.  my guess is...had that been a dummy deer, the kid would have drove right by.  Still doesn't excuse the private property issue. 

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2022, 12:29:40 PM »
I understand it was a neighbors property, did the kid get criminal trespass?

I'm not sure we have enough details to go into trespass issues

I also do not believe "if they shoot a wolf or a couger, they'd also shoot a deer"

There's PLENTY of people who shoot turkey on private property, deer out of season or at night to keep any decoy operations plenty busy....

But instead of using a turkey on private property where birds are frequently poached, or deer after shooting hours, they choose to target predators

That is my beef

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2022, 12:32:04 PM »
Yeah, I'm not surprised about the wolf deek, but I think its crap.   I support deer deek operations, but predators just doesnt sit right.   I doubt this kid was a world class poacher either.   

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2022, 12:35:35 PM »
I know two guys that the dept tried to forever pinch for selling gall bladders to china

Never got them

The dept ain't gonna get world class wolf poachers or poisoners running deeks

They need to call in UC Warden for that type of activity, even then where there's no end consumer market to run down, very tough

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2022, 12:38:43 PM »
I understand it was a neighbors property, did the kid get criminal trespass?

I'm not sure we have enough details to go into trespass issues

I also do not believe "if they shoot a wolf or a couger, they'd also shoot a deer"

There's PLENTY of people who shoot turkey on private property, deer out of season or at night to keep any decoy operations plenty busy....

But instead of using a turkey on private property where birds are frequently poached, or deer after shooting hours, they choose to target predators

That is my beef

Totally understand....and I was not correlating because he shot a predator that he would also have shot a deer everything else being equal.  I am saying if he would have shot a predatory on private....I think it could be  that he assumed he would also shoot a deer w/o respect to private (assuming all else was legal...deer season, shooting hours, etc.).  Just a lack of overall respect for private property. 

And yes....we don't know the details of the trespass / private property issue, but I'm assuming the land owner allowed them to set this sting up because they don't like hunters.  I have a neighbor in the NE corner that would love nothing more than to torch every hunter in the area.....he is a first class anti hunting socialist pig....a real piece of work that uses his money to push others around.  Karma.....aka a bear, cougar or wolf....will bight this guy in the butt one of these days.  I'm personally hoping it's not the butt...but rather the neck.   :tup:

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2022, 12:46:05 PM »
They wanna run a decoy operation?

Put a big fat juicy phesant deek on the side of a paved road somewhere down by pomeroy  in the middle of nowhere

Put a big strutting tom on private property where the landowner is constantly getting poached on

A deer anywhere last few days of the season after legal light

A big mule buck in a late season whitetail only unit


They can keep decoy operations plenty busy if they wanted too, but they're doing this

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Re: Legal/ethical opinion
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2022, 12:49:03 PM »
Bottom line: if you are going to do what the kid did......shoot your worst rifle and walk to where you shoot. That way, they can only take a rusty old gun and a pair of boots. The possibility of losing a vehicle would prevent me from stretching the rules.

 


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