A New Direction - Federal's 80,000 psi 7mm Backcountry Rifle Cartridge

[bearpaw]

I like watching Ron Spomer, he always has a lot of data and practicality in his media and he's not boring to watch. Here he talks about a new offering by Federal that is already being chambered by several cutting edge high performance rifle companies.

[trophyhunt]

That’s a flat shooter, interesting. A lot to like in that bullet.

[bearpaw]

The whole concept is pretty revolutionary, I bet we see the creation of a whole new family of cartridges. They say it can be handloaded with additional steps, that was my main concern after seeing it uses a steel case.

[Lowedog]

I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out once rifles and ammo make their way to the market.  Hopefully it doesn't turn out like the 7PRC where it doesn't perform as advertised with factory ammo after the initial offering. 

Allterra Arms was one of the rifle manufacturers approached by Federal to build rifles chambered in the 7mm Backcountry.  They put out a video showing results and although the velocities were impressive the accuracy left a lot to be desired.  In the end they stated they won't be chambering rifles in the cartridge at this time because accuracy doesn't meet their standards and currently it can't be reloaded.

I've read that Federal said that the powder they are using isn't available to the consumer as well as RCBS has been working on developing a die without much success.  Apparently it is taking up to 12 cycles through a die to get the case back into spec. 

The reloading part may be what keeps a lot of people from diving in. 

[Magnum_Willys]

Alterra is focused on accuracy - if they couldn’t make it shoot that scares me off. 

[safehunter]

  Ron is a great speaker! 
  I have had my eye on this cartridge for a while now also, along with Sig's 277. 
  If Seekins ever gets my 7prc Slam built, I might have to order another barrel for it!

[Lowedog]

Alterra is focused on accuracy - if they couldn’t make it shoot that scares me off.

They said they built several rifles also and had pretty much the same results with them all.

t=1382s

[Mtnwalker]

Pretty much sums it up. Language warning for all you sensitive folks 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shoot2hunt/id1668626771?i=1000683232840

[nwmein199]

https://remiwarren.com/pages/live-wild-podcast-network


Live Wild with Remi Warren
Ep. 164 | Is this the best elk cartridge available?

Remi talking about this new cartridge

[kselkhunter]

80,000 PSI special alloy steel case.  Federal currently will not allow other manufacturers access to their special alloy steel case....whether they continue to hold that position or eventually share the recipe later is TBD.  RCBS is making special carbide dies to be able to reform this special alloy steel case, but as of yet don't have a solution that works reliably.  The initial test dies are requiring a dozen passes through the die to get close to the original specs.  According to Federal, the special alloy steel cannot be annealed. 

The other issue is the powder.  The powder that Federal uses in their ammo to get these velocities is proprietary and not available to the general public.  So far Hogdon and others haven't come up with a commercial solution that can reach the same velocities. 

Outdoor Life has a detailed review of positives and negatives of this new cartridge:  https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/federal-7mm-backcountry-review/

I'm skeptical as I have a 450 Marlin.  Hornady designed that case to be unique so you can't form it from another cartridge.   And then Hornady discontinued it, including not making the brass anymore....thus entirely killing the cartridge (thankfully I have a large stockpile of brass and ammo).  My concern is the same for this new 7mm Backcountry.  If it doesn't hit the sales targets in the allotted time, Federal could choose to dump it and stop making the ammo.   And if Federal continues to refuse to allow their competitors access to the special alloy steel for the cases, then it's a dead cartridge at that point.   

[bearpaw]

I'm thinking that with the gains in velocity and other benefits, someone is going to make this work. It may end up bring a different cartridge that is ultimately successful, but enthusiasts now see too much potential, something will work out and be successful.

[Lowedog]

From what I have read Federal (and probably others) was in the running for the military contract along with Sig.  The contract went to Sig with the .277 Fury and I'm guessing Federal saw moving this cartridge to the general public as a way to recoup on their investment. 

If you think about it, it was a pretty cunning move by Federal marketing wise.  Hornady developed the 7mm PRC with Alliant RL26.  Federal and Alliant are owned by the same company.  Hornady ran out of the powder they developed the PRC with and weren't able to find another powder to produce published velocities and achieve the same accuracy, so they had to settle for lower velocities to get the accuracy they required.  Federal on the other hand had their 7PRC ammo out, including one offering with the 175 ELD-X and from everything I have seen, Federal's ammo did achieve stated velocities of 3000fps with a 175.  It seems that Federal stopped producing 7mm PRC ammo in the lead up to the introduction of the 7mm BC.  Pretty strategic moves in my opinion. 

[brocka]

Pretty much sums it up. Language warning for all you sensitive folks 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shoot2hunt/id1668626771?i=1000683232840

This is a MUST LISTEN podcast episode.....

[EnglishSetter]

80,000 PSI special alloy steel case.  Federal currently will not allow other manufacturers access to their special alloy steel case....whether they continue to hold that position or eventually share the recipe later is TBD.  RCBS is making special carbide dies to be able to reform this special alloy steel case, but as of yet don't have a solution that works reliably.  The initial test dies are requiring a dozen passes through the die to get close to the original specs.  According to Federal, the special alloy steel cannot be annealed. 

The other issue is the powder.  The powder that Federal uses in their ammo to get these velocities is proprietary and not available to the general public.  So far Hogdon and others haven't come up with a commercial solution that can reach the same velocities. 

Outdoor Life has a detailed review of positives and negatives of this new cartridge:  https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/federal-7mm-backcountry-review/

I'm skeptical as I have a 450 Marlin.  Hornady designed that case to be unique so you can't form it from another cartridge.   And then Hornady discontinued it, including not making the brass anymore....thus entirely killing the cartridge (thankfully I have a large stockpile of brass and ammo).  My concern is the same for this new 7mm Backcountry.  If it doesn't hit the sales targets in the allotted time, Federal could choose to dump it and stop making the ammo.   And if Federal continues to refuse to allow their competitors access to the special alloy steel for the cases, then it's a dead cartridge at that point.

Steel can be annealed (heat and slow cool vs quick), but it may not have the strength/properties required after.

Steel doesn't work harden like brass.

[Dan-o]

Why not just buy a 28 Nosler if you "need" that kind of speed?

When I saw 80,000 psi, I was expecting something crazy.

It just doesn't seem like much of a leap for all of the associated hassle/limitations.

[actionshooter]

 Advertising 3040 with a 170gr bullet out of a 20" barrel is impressive, would be a great suppressed gun, but not being able to reload and proprietary powder doesn't even make this caliber a consideration.

 Plus, I'm getting 3100fps w/ a 180berger out of a 7RM and not even close to max... I'm happy with that.

[huntnphool]

Advertising 3040 with a 170gr bullet out of a 20" barrel is impressive, would be a great suppressed gun, but not being able to reload and proprietary powder doesn't even make this caliber a consideration.

 Plus, I'm getting 3100fps w/ a 180berger out of a 7RM and not even close to max... I'm happy with that.

 +1

[b23]

With regard to one of these being a good choice for a suppressed rifle I'd talk to whoever makes the suppressor I plan to screw on the end of one of these things first because I would imagine the muzzle pressure will be pretty high and higher then many suppressors are rated for. 

[pickardjw]

yeah I’ve read some reports of Ti cans being blown up. Also read that pressures on the boxes vary pretty wildly, up to 92,000 PSI. Lots of reports about having trouble to get it to group well.

Won’t be an early adopter, but once the kinks get sorted out and the line expanded a 6mm backcountry could be neat.

[elkaholic123]

Advertising 3040 with a 170gr bullet out of a 20" barrel is impressive, would be a great suppressed gun, but not being able to reload and proprietary powder doesn't even make this caliber a consideration.

 Plus, I'm getting 3100fps w/ a 180berger out of a 7RM and not even close to max... I'm happy with that.

With what powder and charge? Has to be over max charge!

[kselkhunter]

With regard to one of these being a good choice for a suppressed rifle I'd talk to whoever makes the suppressor I plan to screw on the end of one of these things first because I would imagine the muzzle pressure will be pretty high and higher then many suppressors are rated for.

That is a good point.  The muzzle pressure calculators suggest some rather high results for 7mm Backcountry, but those calculators are not always real world results.  I contacted Silencerco about using their suppressor that is rated for 338LM pressures, and they advised not to use it yet until they finish testing and research and development regarding the 7mm Backcountry.   So will wait to see what the various suppressor manufacturers eventually recommend for using with this new cartridge.

[actionshooter]

With regard to one of these being a good choice for a suppressed rifle I'd talk to whoever makes the suppressor I plan to screw on the end of one of these things first because I would imagine the muzzle pressure will be pretty high and higher then many suppressors are rated for. 

Ya, I think that's a solid point... the pressures they are printing are pretty high..

[bearpaw]

With regard to one of these being a good choice for a suppressed rifle I'd talk to whoever makes the suppressor I plan to screw on the end of one of these things first because I would imagine the muzzle pressure will be pretty high and higher then many suppressors are rated for. 

Ya, I think that's a solid point... the pressures they are printing are pretty high..

I don't understand how, but they say that muzzle pressure is not much different?

[actionshooter]

Advertising 3040 with a 170gr bullet out of a 20" barrel is impressive, would be a great suppressed gun, but not being able to reload and proprietary powder doesn't even make this caliber a consideration.

 Plus, I'm getting 3100fps w/ a 180berger out of a 7RM and not even close to max... I'm happy with that.

With what powder and charge? Has to be over max charge!

Their load or Mine?

 I'm not even close to max for my gun/load... I'm running a 7RM,  69.8gr RL26 w/ 180gr Berger right at 3100fps and it shoots incredible.