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Author Topic: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting  (Read 18077 times)

Offline CedarPants

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2013, 09:42:01 PM »
I liked Ware's answer to "will there be a hunting season in Washington for wolves?"  He was matter of fact, saying yes and he isn't sure why there wouldn't be as they are mandated by the legislature to provide hunting opportunities.

I didn't like his answer to "will Washington keep wolves protected statewide until they've dispersed to all management zones even if their numbers continue growing in northeastern Washington?"  He was very of matter of fact, stating yes and reitterating that the wolf management plan very clearly states they will not be de-listed until all zones are populated with the minimum target numbers of breeding pairs - and went on to state that realisitically, northeast Washington is most likely going to be above target objectives until the rest of the state populates.

Most likely?  I think we're already there Dave.

To his credit, he did touch on the fact that the plan has contingencies written into it to allow for lethal wolf removal if cattle/ungulate interaction becomes an issue.  He did also mention translocation as a realistic solution.

I just don't get why they go to great measure to manage ungulates at the GMU level, but for wolves they view it as just 1 big management territory (the entire state). 

Offline dreamunelk

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2013, 09:59:52 PM »

I just don't get why they go to great measure to manage ungulates at the GMU level, but for wolves they view it as just 1 big management territory (the entire state).

Better to manage at the state level.  If managed at GMU level than the argument could be made that we have to have several packs per GMU. 
Also most predators are dispersers.  Cougars and wolves travel hundreds of miles to establish new territories.  Ungulates don't really travel that much.  They will generally live their lives in pretty close to the same area.  They do disperse but, you can't say they will were with wolves you can say that young will disperse.

Offline JLS

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2013, 10:09:11 PM »

I just don't get why they go to great measure to manage ungulates at the GMU level, but for wolves they view it as just 1 big management territory (the entire state).

Ungulates don't really travel that much.  They will generally live their lives in pretty close to the same area. 
[/b]

For example, the Blue Mountain elk herds stay almost exclusively within the GMU boundaries.  They winter there, they calve there, and they summer there.

This was directly from Paul Wik, who helped with much of the elk research in the Blues.
Matthew 7:13-14

Offline CedarPants

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2013, 10:16:59 PM »
I see your point and do agree.  Nobody wants to see X number of wolves required per GMU. 

I guess I'm more just hung up on why they are so hung up on telling everyone in NE WA that we'll have to just deal with it until wolves are everywhere in the state. 

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2013, 10:50:10 PM »
I see your point and do agree.  Nobody wants to see X number of wolves required per GMU. 

I guess I'm more just hung up on why they are so hung up on telling everyone in NE WA that we'll have to just deal with it until wolves are everywhere in the state.

I agree, NE Washington is being fed to the wolves no if, ands, or buts. What really riled me is when they came to Colville and told us that if herds decline they will take there sweet time studying the herds before they take any management action on wolves.

Unfortunately I was busy all day and this evening and forgot about this meeting.  :bash:
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Offline Gringo31

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2013, 06:06:16 AM »
tag
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Offline CedarPants

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #81 on: July 19, 2013, 06:36:38 AM »
I see your point and do agree.  Nobody wants to see X number of wolves required per GMU. 

I guess I'm more just hung up on why they are so hung up on telling everyone in NE WA that we'll have to just deal with it until wolves are everywhere in the state.

I agree, NE Washington is being fed to the wolves no if, ands, or buts. What really riled me is when they came to Colville and told us that if herds decline they will take there sweet time studying the herds before they take any management action on wolves.

Unfortunately I was busy all day and this evening and forgot about this meeting.  :bash:

They touched on that as well, and the Idaho and Montana speakers called out and reiterated several times that people, cougars, weather, and bears can and do have greater impact on herds than wolves (they used the Lolo and Bitterroot as their examples).  They seemed to agree that wolves do in fact have an impact but did their best to make it sound minimal.

 Idaho also said (when asked) that they would be raisin license fees to make up for lost tag sales

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #82 on: July 19, 2013, 07:56:07 AM »
I see your point and do agree.  Nobody wants to see X number of wolves required per GMU. 

I guess I'm more just hung up on why they are so hung up on telling everyone in NE WA that we'll have to just deal with it until wolves are everywhere in the state.

I agree, NE Washington is being fed to the wolves no if, ands, or buts. What really riled me is when they came to Colville and told us that if herds decline they will take there sweet time studying the herds before they take any management action on wolves.

Unfortunately I was busy all day and this evening and forgot about this meeting.  :bash:

They touched on that as well, and the Idaho and Montana speakers called out and reiterated several times that people, cougars, weather, and bears can and do have greater impact on herds than wolves (they used the Lolo and Bitterroot as their examples).  They seemed to agree that wolves do in fact have an impact but did their best to make it sound minimal.

 Idaho also said (when asked) that they would be raisin license fees to make up for lost tag sales

Glad I missed it, sounds like another dog and pony show. These F&G people will do anything to protect wolves. I agree that cougar, bear, and weather definitely impact herds, but wolves are the unbalancing factor that took many herds in Idaho/Montana to such ridiculously low levels. Where there are no wolves in Idaho the herds remain stable.

Idaho ought to ask Montana how that worked out to raise license fees! Hunters will literally be footing the bill for wolves everywhere! :bash:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2013, 08:03:03 AM »
I'd like to see a law passed in WA the restricts F&W's ability to raise tag fees to cover decreased purchases due to wolf problems and and/or increased expenses due to depredation and management. I believe we've seen nothing yet compared to what's coming and it's all going to increase the cost of hunting while the wolf watchers continue to pay for nothing.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #84 on: July 19, 2013, 09:10:04 AM »
I see your point and do agree.  Nobody wants to see X number of wolves required per GMU. 

I guess I'm more just hung up on why they are so hung up on telling everyone in NE WA that we'll have to just deal with it until wolves are everywhere in the state.

I agree, NE Washington is being fed to the wolves no if, ands, or buts. What really riled me is when they came to Colville and told us that if herds decline they will take there sweet time studying the herds before they take any management action on wolves.

Unfortunately I was busy all day and this evening and forgot about this meeting.  :bash:

They touched on that as well, and the Idaho and Montana speakers called out and reiterated several times that people, cougars, weather, and bears can and do have greater impact on herds than wolves (they used the Lolo and Bitterroot as their examples).  They seemed to agree that wolves do in fact have an impact but did their best to make it sound minimal.

 Idaho also said (when asked) that they would be raisin license fees to make up for lost tag sales

Glad I missed it, sounds like another dog and pony show. These F&G people will do anything to protect wolves. I agree that cougar, bear, and weather definitely impact herds, but wolves are the unbalancing factor that took many herds in Idaho/Montana to such ridiculously low levels. Where there are no wolves in Idaho the herds remain stable.

Idaho ought to ask Montana how that worked out to raise license fees! Hunters will literally be footing the bill for wolves everywhere! :bash:

My guess is all of WA will get the same management as the Methow Valley. Wolves will decimated the game herds and WDFW will run to the local newspaper at the end of each season and say for the amount of hunters, the hunting was great. This will happen until there is nothing left to hunt. Remember the Lolo elk herd, 14 years later IDFG finally admitted, that yes, wolves were the problem.

It won't take 14 years for WA to hit bottom,  Same BS just a different state, Welcome to WDF&Wolves

Offline asl20bball

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2013, 01:24:25 PM »
Bearpaw, you can watch it online (recorded)l is my understanding
Take up your bow, a quiver full of arrows, head out to the country and hunt some wild game.  GEN 27:3

Offline Styles

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2013, 11:47:02 PM »
I wish I could have listened to the whole "live stream" of the meeting!! Our "experts" here in Wa are a joke at best!! Our Big Game Management program is an ultimate fail and they are stealing hunters and fishermans money!!
"Nothing clears a troubled mind like shooting a BOW!!"

Offline Simcoe hunter

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #87 on: July 21, 2013, 12:04:40 AM »
Is there a stipulation in the Pittman-Robertson Act regarding what that money can be used on?

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #88 on: July 21, 2013, 12:07:56 AM »
I wish I could have listened to the whole "live stream" of the meeting!! Our "experts" here in Wa are a joke at best!! Our Big Game Management program is an ultimate fail and they are stealing hunters and fishermans money!!

I agree they are failing sportsmen, Fish & Wildlife needs split up, We need two agencies that each find their own funding:

Washington Dept of Fish & Game
Washington Dept of Non-Game

I am tired of sportsman's dollars being used to propagate wolves, turtles, bugs, and other nonsense.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Duckhunter14

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Re: Experts Meet To Discuss Wolves Effect On Hunting
« Reply #89 on: July 21, 2013, 09:24:44 AM »
As far as a hunting season on Wolves; I read on the Washington Fish and Game website that they have to have '15 Established' breeding pairs before they will decide to explore the options of a regulated hunting season. But who knows what their idea of a confirmed breeding pair is? Knowing this state they probably need to see them in the act to deem that "Confirmation." From the BLM and F&S guys I've talked to, the Fish and Game has a flood of calls and emails coming in of wolf sightings all over the eastside of the mountains and they're not particularly excited about it either. Most of them are hunters too! Unfortunately the reintroduction of these wolves into the state has been motivated by the people who don't put their money where their mouth is year in and year out like sportsmen do every year. If we want to see what happens when a wolf population is left to run rampant on an otherwise healthy big game population, with no hunting season- look at the deer, moose and elk herds in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. Hopefully we can learn from the mistakes these states made and manage the wolf population before it takes away what we have worked so hard to keep healthy; our big game populations. In my opinion Washington state does not have the resources to support a growing wolf population. I think as a collective, hunters know what to do when they see a wolf in the field. At least every person I've ever talked to in WY, ID, or MT did. S.S.S. I pray this state has the backbone to stand firm in the face of political pressure and manage these wolves aggressively, before it's too late...
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