TIRED OF PC HUNTING (WDFW RANT)

[Fullabull]

This a little bit of a rant towards the WDFW! I have lived here in WA for 8 years now and have archery hunted for 7 of those years. My father started coming up here for the first few years and just went along with me. He has always hunted modern but got the bug while spending time in the woods with me during archery season. He purchased a bow and has hunted with me every year since.

My father is now 71 and I have to plan out our hunts according to his age and being a flat lander. I find easier trails that we can walk and hunt from. He cannot do hard hills due to his knees but we go in about a mile or so on the trail that then hunt 100 to 200 yards off of that. We have had decent opportunity every year with bulls answering to our location calls from the trail, and then we try and work them. He has enjoyed the sound of having a bull close and screaming or chuckling. He has had a couple of opportunities but due to lack of experience has not been able to score yet. My goal has been to have him take an elk before he is not able to hunt any longer.

We have been talking about how the WDFW has been screwing the archery hunters here in WA to make things fair between the archer and modern hunters. As the WDFW has been pulling back the day’s archery hunters have to hunt during any type of rut, our opportunities have dwindled to the point where these last two years we have had little to no opportunity at an elk and my father has now decided not to hunt here anymore. He is from CA. and pays our outrageous out of state fees to hunt here with his son (me).  I would gladly hunt out of WA if I could afford it but I have one child in Collage and the next one starting next year so that is out of the question.

I am extremely frustrated with all the talk about how the WDFW is trying to make things fair for the modern hunters who according to WDFW take fewer branch antler bulls per hunter then archery hunters.

I do not understand how archery hunters have such an advantage over modern or ML hunters when they are the only ones who get to hunt the most intense part of the elk rut season. Archery hunters get to hunt the pre-rut and maybe the beginning rut for the most part. Even permit archery hunts do not hunt the prime rut. But both modern and ML do!!!

So let me make a list of fair:
1. Archery Hunters do not hunt prime rut
    Modern and ML permit hunts are during prime rut periods
2. Archery hunters have to work hard for any harvest they take (I have never seen an archery road hunter)
    To many modern hunters road hunt and can shoot how far??? I saw a tree stand in the Lewis river unit that looks like a house and looks over a shooting range of about 400 to 500 yards.
3. Archery hunters have closed roads and gates every year and like this year much of the timber land was shut down due to fire danger.
    What closed gates do modern hunters have to deal with?
4. WA is the only state with any number of elk that does not allow archery hunting into late September

Please, modern and ml hunters. I am not putting down anything about your seasons or method of hunting. Many of you more successful hunters have to work just as hard as archery hunters and you have less time to do it.
All I am trying to say is that WDFW needs to stop taking away opportunity from the archery hunters because some modern lobbyist says things are "not fair".

Not sure where they grew up but I was always told life is not fair. I always tell my kids, life owes you no more than what you put into it. The harder you work the greater your reward! If archery hunters have to work extremely hard to get within 40 yards of an animal, then they should be provided the best opportunity to do so. There is a big difference between 40 and 400 yard shots, having to hike in miles behind closed gates and off roads to hunt and drive around looking for elk crossing the road.

Let’s talk more about fair…
In 2011: Bull elk special permit hunts
* There were 33 special permit hunts for modern hunters during prime rut periods ranging from Sept. 19 though Oct. 10. (yes, these are prime rut periods)
*  There were 26 special permit hunts for ML hunters during prime rut periods during Oct. 1 though Oct. 14.
*  There is one special permit hunt for archery that gets to hunt until Sept. 23.

I really would like to know who has been feeding the WDFW information that archery hunters take more branch bulls???

2010 results: Don’t have earlier regs to go by but 2010 seems to show that modern hunters do much better the archery hunters when it comes to killing bulls!!!

2010 Special Permit Hunts:
Modern Hunters: Permits Issued: 355
Bulls taken 4 point or better: 139
Success rate 39%

Archery Hunters: Permits Issued: 519
Bulls taken 4 point or better: 62
Success rate 12%

2010 General Season Results:
Modern Hunters: 46,446
Bulls taken 4 point or better: 1398
Success rate 3%

Archery Hunters: 18,783
Bulls taken 4 point or better: 510
Success rate 2.7%

So who is saying archery hunters shoot more branch bulls then modern hunters???

This has really gotten out of hand with what is fair (PC) for everyone. I have lost my best hunting partner in the field because some folks feel they should not have to work as hard as archery hunters in order to shoot a nice bull. WDFW, STOP THIS PC MENTALITY AND LET THE FOLKS WILLING TO PUT IN THE HARD WORK REEP THE REWARDS OF THEIR EFFORTS!!! 

OK, I'm done...sorry for the long winded rant...I feel better now 

[Jellymon]

Rifle success would be even higher than 3% if half of the 46,446 even got out of their truck. If you've never seen archery road hunters then I guess you haven't hunted the winston unit. 4 or 5 guys per truck inching along, all holding their bows at the ready. Myself, I love gated areas.

[vandeman17]

I feel you Fulla and this is one of the main reasons I am looking at trying to find a job in another state like Idaho or Montana where I can hunt branch antlered bulls, in the rut with my bow every year! What a novel idea. 

[deerslyr]

Vandeman Im not even going to go out this weekend is suppose to be in the 90s. Been like that most of the season...its really not worth moving all the way over here in MT 

[bobcat]

Just a couple of comments.
 
First, if you think rifle season is so much better, feel free to switch from archery to modern firearm.
 
Second, with your numbers of 4 point or better bulls taken by modern firearm and archery, you need to take into account the number of hunters, and the percentage of "mature" bulls killed by each user group. NOT the total number of bulls killed. That's not a fair comparison and that's not the way the WDFW calculates it.

[Hunterman]

I really doubt that there has been over 1000 bulls killed in this state in the last 20 years...Someone with the Game Dept. has been padding the numbers..

Hunterman(Tony)

[Jellymon]

Just a couple of comments.
 
First, if you think rifle season is so much better, feel free to switch from archery to modern firearm.
 
Second, with your numbers of 4 point or better bulls taken by modern firearm and archery, you need to take into account the number of hunters, and the percentage of "mature" bulls killed by each user group. NOT the total number of bulls killed. That's not a fair comparison and that's not the way the WDFW calculates it.

He isnt saying rifle season is better, he is saying that there is no reason why wdfw should be shortening archery elk season when it has the lowest success rate. And to all of the modern guys complaining about archery taking lots of mature bulls, feel free to pick up a bow.

[bobcat]

He isnt saying rifle season is better, he is saying that there is no reason why wdfw should be shortening archery elk season when it has the lowest success rate.

They have to limit harvest somehow. With a longer archery season, there's no doubt more elk would be killed. And again, if someone feels another user group has a better season, then switch and hunt that season. That is what I'm most likely going to do next year- switch from rifle to archery.

[Fullabull]

I love my archery hunting, I use to hunt modern years ago in CO. After moving to archery, I will never go back!

I know they combine the numbers to come up with more "fair" distribution. What I am also saying is why does it need to be fair? Archery hunters (over all) work much harder for their elk then modern hunters do. This is not about controlling the number of animals taken, it is about controlling who takes them. You can take the numbers or the 4 point bulls out and I believe the numbers get worse. There is something very wrong with what the WDFW is doing here.

If I was hunting by myself or with someone who can still hike into places no one is, I'm sure I would not have much problem harvesting and elk. But, I am still hunting with my father for as long as I can and being 71, the more the WDFW takes away from the archer, the more difficult it gets to be successful. In my fathers case, he has had enough with paying the out of state fees for the opportunity he is now getting (can't blame him).

[MAVsled]

I've hunted elk archery and modern, split between two states. due to huge increase in OR non-res fees, I no longer hunt OR for my archery fix. Hunted elk in WA since 1968.

I recall the days of elk hunting WA state prior to the current regulations; any method, everyone in the same season, anywhere in the state. Pure craziness in the late 70's-late 80's, not to mention safety risks. It wasn't nearly as good as my last 10 seasons, or for me '68-'73 was fantastic. but I do miss my father and the past two week elk seasons of years gone by.
My dad lost interest and quit hunting due to age and regulations of less time and spike only with long waits on modern permit draws.

With the increase in users and demands on the elk herds, something needs to be done. Tough to make everyone happy And with the increase in efficiency and technology advancement of equipment, archery & muzzle are far more efficient today than when the separate seasonal methods were established. and now add the tribal hunting issue to the mix.
At least you get a choice to decide. Aside from a multi elk season permit, you must live with your decision on method/weapon of your choice. with the regulations, at least you have information in advance to make the choice.

and 8 years later...welcome to WA State and its bureaucracy.

[hucklebeary]

Some people like my self just enjoy archery hunting over rifle hunting so switching hunting methods is not an option.  Moving the archery season to Sept. 15-30 would help archery hunters out for sure especially with the fire danger issue but don't count on WDFW changing anything unless they can make $ doing it.

[plugger]

first, After hearing all the reports from the archery hunters, sounds to me there were plenty of bulls screaming at them, most said they were on elk every day. Second your hunting before or at least the beginning of the tribal season. Go look and see how many legal bulls are running around in units like the dickey or hoko after two months of that. Third, my small hunting camp have killed are share of bulls over the years and not one of them was road hunting.Gate are your friend. As far as special permitts go,if you look at how many apps there are for riffle tags and the amount of people applying for each one I don't think the odds of drawing one would be any different no matter what your method of choice is.   

[remington300mag]

   If you really want to see who is getting screwed how about you check out the ML hunts over here on the East Side....... We have lost all but 7 days for mule deer (at the end of sept.).....and don't even get me started on elk.....took away all late season hunts.....split the best unit up and gave us the worse side.....ohhh and a whole 7 days for a spike!
SO once again....... 

[gasman]

I am with you Fullabull, the WDFW has messed up the season for all user groups, but wether people believe it or not, archers got it in the shorts 
 
You will never see it get better.....Never 

first, After hearing all the reports from the archery hunters, sounds to me there were plenty of bulls screaming at them, most said they were on elk every day. Second your hunting before or at least the beginning of the tribal season. Go look and see how many legal bulls are running around in units like the dickey or hoko after two months of that. Third, my small hunting camp have killed are share of bulls over the years and not one of them was road hunting.Gate are your friend. As far as special permitts go,if you look at how many apps there are for riffle tags and the amount of people applying for each one I don't think the odds of drawing one would be any different no matter what your method of choice is.   

I think you ae a little backwards......most reports from this years archery season are bad. Very few unters were in to bulls. I was in to a good number of bulls but I am the only person I ran in to that was. And yes the elk were screaming in many areas. Screaming at night, but not durring hunting hours 

[royalbull]

I don't think I would whine too much if I were still archery hunting, I have always believed they have had the best opportunity to be successful if they choose to put their time in, ML have always been the ones getting screwed, rifle hunters if they get drawn for special permits have a greater chance of all user groups at being successful but what are the chances of being drawn, if I am not drawn my hunting season is basically winter camping which I still enjoy very much, I hope they remove the early hunt for elk and deer in unit 346 in the near future that will give you something to whine about