Proposed Night Hunting Weapon Restrictions

[pianoman9701]

I think the new proposed firearm restrictions are stupid. Handicapping law-abiding hunters with small caliber/gauge weapons will not make it easier to identify poachers. Here's the letter I sent to the Commission. Feel free to send one of your own:


"Dear Sirs/Madams,
 
With reference to:
WAC 232-12-063 Hunting at night--Regulations--Penalties

 
"...(c) Firearms are restricted to .22 caliber rifles and
handguns, and shotguns are restricted to no. 6 shot or smaller. Hunting with bow and arrow is allowed..."

This restriction basically says that law abiding citizens who are legally hunting game at night will be put at a disadvantage by being forced to use lower caliber firearms so it's easier for law enforcement to identify criminals. This is a bad proposal and should be scrapped. The reasoning for this has no basis in reality.
 
A poacher basically must be caught in the act of shooting an animal (or decoy) to be successfully prosecuted. Because it's not illegal to possess any caliber of loaded weapon at any time while in the woods, a law breaker must be caught doing the illegal deed. This makes it unnecessary to restrict the rest of us law-abiding citizens from being able to use a larger caliber firearm for legally hunting animals at night.
 
Please eliminate this restriction from the proposed game laws. Penalizing the legal hunters to make it easier to bust poachers makes no sense, especially when it really doesn't make it any easier to prosecute them.
 
Thanks for your attention to my request and comments.
 
Most Sincerely,
 
John W
Vancouver, WA "

[buglebuster]

should also add in that using 6 shot and smaller greatly increases the chance of only wounding an animal and allowing it to get away and suffer and be wasted. i think ill add that in and send one out also 

[Machias]

Hi, Fred.  I will have someone in our Wildlife Program respond to your questions.

Lori Preuss, WSBA #33045
WDFW Criminal Justice Liaison &
Administrative Regulations Coordinator
Lori.preuss@dfw.wa.gov
360.902.2930
Fax 360.902.2155

Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:38 PM
To: Preuss, Lori (DFW)
Subject: Night Hunting Changes

Afternoon Mrs. Preuss, 

   I saw your signature and name on the hunting proposals paperwork, so I am hoping you can give me an idea on the thinking behind the night hunting proposals.  Specifically the shot size #6 and smaller requirement.  Could you shed some light on the reasoning behind this restriction?  If this stands basically you will eliminate shotguns for use on coyotes at night as #6 shot and smaller is completely unethical to use on coyotes, daytime or nighttime.  Also, am I reading the proposal correctly, .22 weapons means .222, .223 and .22-250s are legal, but .17, .204, .243 and .257s would be illegal?  Can you also shed the thoughts on that reasoning?  Thanks!!

Fred

[pianoman9701]

Nice, Fred. It's good we have these threads.

[Bob33]

It will be interesting to see the response.  I believe it's due to the proposed change that would allow night hunting during September, October, and November when modern deer seasons are open.  It appears to have not been completely thought through, however.

[Machias]

It will be interesting to see the response.  I believe it's due to the proposed change that would allow night hunting during September, October, and November when modern deer seasons are open.  It appears to have not been completely thought through, however.

I have a feeling that part is a typo.  What would be the reasoning to allow folks to hunt coyotes at night during an open deer or elk season....unless you wanted to seriously tick off all the deer and elk hunters and garner their support for shutting down all of night hunting.  That makes no sense at all.  I love hunting yotes at night, but would never want to do it in an area where folks are camping and or deer and elk hunting the next day.  Makes no sense at all.

[bobcat]

NONE of the proposed night hunting rules make any sense. I want to know why they are wasting their time, and our money, thinking up these ridiculous, unnecessary rules?

[Bob33]

 

It appears to not be well thought through.  I do think they intended to allow night huntng during Sep-Nov.  Just don't know why.

[bobcat]

It appears to not be well thought through.  I do think they intended to allow night huntng during Sep-Nov.  Just don't know why.

Why would they be trying to give us something we DON'T want (night hunting Sept-Nov), and taking away
something else that we DO want(our choice of caliber and shot size)? 

[Bob33]

hopefully Fred will get a response that lets us know.

[bobcat]

hopefully Fred will get a response that lets us know.

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't expecting an answer to those questions.   

I can't wait to see what they come up with. I really think it has more to do with safety than anything else. That's what they were concerned with a year or so ago when they first started talking about changing the night hunting rules.

[Curly]

You're probably right that they are making night hunting a safety issue............but then why allow a .22 cal rifles?  If they allow rifles, then why limit shotguns to #6?  If they really wanted to make it safe, they would eliminate rifles altogether for night hunting.  Even #4 buck has way less range than a 22LR......

I predict an end to night hunting within the next 10 years........

[lokidog]

10 years??  I think you are a glass half full kind of guy....   

[spookgus]

Machias may be on to something. Why allow night hunting during deer and elk seasons unless the goal is to piss off the big game hunters which would pit another hunting user group against each other. The WDFW could say they ended night hunting because hunters asked for it.

[Outdoor Guardian]

The rule proposal concerning night hunting is broader than just restricting caliber. Before answering your questions, please be aware that as of today, this rule proposal is being pulled from the Wildlife Program's three year regulation package. I would expect to see some variation of this in the future, after we have had a chance to vet it better with hunters. So, along that vein, I might as well describe the thinking behind the proposal now and get some early feedback.  There have been a number of incidents associated with hunting at night that have raised concern over public safety, officer safety and the ability to enforce the prohibition on spot lighting big game. Rounds shot into the sides of homes, hunters or companions shot or injured, and a loop hole allowing would-be big game poachers an excuse are the issues driving this. When an officer has to consider approach because he doesn’t want to offend a legitimate hunter, it can get hairy out there. This rule proposal was an effort to try to address all of those things. 
 
BACKGROUND: Prior to the codification of former fish and wildlife codes (Title 75&77), the prohibition against spotlighting big game was much stronger. The former law maintained that if a person was in possession of a firearm, in an area where big game was found, and artificial light was used, the combination of those elements constituted “prima facia” evidence of spotlighting. While the prima facia language is now absent from RCW 77.15.450, officers essentially use the same standard today to articulate an investigatory stop, if not probable cause. Right now, hunting small game species such as raccoon, coyote and bobcat with the aid of spotlight is not prohibited, except during times areas are open for center fire big game seasons. This convolutes things for us when we approach spotlighting during those other months (e.g. “am I going to tick off a legit hunter, or is this a bad guy?").
 
While the enforceability challenge is usually overcome by evaluating a number of factors, to include whether the habitat being hunted and methods being employed are consistent with hunting small game species, it gives the poachers an argument. I was on patrol two years ago when we set up the decoy. A known poacher shot the decoy from a seated position in the vehicle, with the bullet traveling across the chest of his partner, and out of the open passenger side window. When we pulled him over and took him out of the vehicle, he was arguing that he shot at a coyote. Yeah – that’s the extreme, but the “I’m coyote hunting excuse” is used by most of the bad guys, even when you have them dead to rights.
 
Hunting big game with the aid of artificial light is almost always done by cruising rural road systems at a slow rate while casting a high powered light along adjacent logging clear cuts or fields, as well as the roads themselves. Calibers used in big game spotlighting cases range from small calibers to reduce noise (and ultimately detection), to high powered rifles, with high powered rifles being the typical choice of poachers. Extensive field officer experience has shown that those hunting big game in this manner are often in the possession of a pre-loaded rifle in the vehicle, or load it from within the vehicle once the game is spotted. A number of unintentional discharges have occurred during spotlighting events, endangering the occupants. Animals are usually shot from, or in, the roadway. There is also greater potential for incidents of reckless endangerment or property damage when high-powered rifles are discharged at night. WDFW and local law enforcement agencies receive complaints every year of homes and buildings being struck by wayward bullets as people shoot illegally at animals located in fields and orchards. These structures, like people, are not visible beyond the range of the spotlight, but are within the range of the rifle round. But this all can be mitigated when someone hunts away from the vehicle, finds a backstop, and identifies shooting lanes. Calling in animals provides an opportunity to consider safety zones.
 
The general public safety issues associated with spotlighting big-game (or any night hunting) are one concern, but I have eluded to another – the danger to the officer, especially when there are exceptions like hunting small game at night. In our experience, those illegally spotlighting big game are often either intoxicated or on drugs. Suspects avoid being contacted by responding officers, leading to vehicle pursuits. Our history has at least one example of where a Fish and Wildlife Officer was forced to exchange gun-fire with a spotlighting suspect, resulting in the suspect's death. Pennsylvania lost an officer last year on a spot lighting case. In order to minimize the danger to the officer by these armed violators, decrease escalation like a pursuit, and increase successful arrest, contacts are generally done with duty firearms at the low ready and from an area of tactical advantage and cover. The suspect is first taken into custody, all firearms and passengers are secured, and then the investigative interview begins. When a bank is robbed, law enforcement does not respond as if a teller inadvertently bumped the alarm……… because they know that worrying about exceptions up front when guns are involved can result in tragedy.  On the other hand, none of us want to have a legitimate small game hunter contacted in high-risk mode.
 
 
The best way for me to proceed might be to take it section by section:
 
WAC 232-12-063  Hunting at night‑-Regulations‑-Penalties.  (1) It is unlawful to hunt small game animals or unclassified wildlife at night, unless all of the following requirements are met:
     (a) Artificial lights used in the hunting activity are not attached to or projected from any motor vehicle.
     (b) Shooting occurs at least fifty feet from a motor vehicle.
 
We are trying to separate the two activities – illegally spotlighting big game which usually occurs from a vehicle, and legitimate small game hunters that can pursue that activity with calls, back stops, and away from the vehicle. These two provisions are the backbone of the proposal and  intended to increase officer safety, and enforceability associated with spotlighting big-game.  

     (c) Firearms are restricted to .22 caliber rifles and handguns, and shotguns are restricted to no. 6 shot or smaller.  Hunting with bow and arrow is allowed.
 
For what it was worth, this was an ill-conceived idea, with good intentions. We looked at a number of other state’s night hunting rules, and many constrained the caliber. The original thought was to limit projectiles  that travel great distances for public safety sake, and provide some deterrence for those really out looking for deer and elk at night with larger calibers. Of course,  many elk and deer have been poached with .22 caliber rifles. So the deterrence factor probably isn’t  there - it can be argued that .22 caliber rounds travel  just as far as some larger calibers, and many popular predator calibers would be excluded by this provision. The idea no longer seems like a good one and you won’t see caliber restrictions in any future proposals from the WDFW Law Enforcement Bureau.  

     (d) During the months of September, October, or November hunting does not occur in areas closed to hunting for deer or elk with centerfire rifles.
 
Whoops, we meant to say “open," not closed. This provision was intended to follow current regulation in that you can’t hunt coyotes, bobcat or raccoons in areas that have center fire rifle deer and elk season underway. I wasn’t going to go into the reason behind this, because it’s old law carried forward.
 
     (e) Hunting activity is further than five hundred yards from any structure or temporary habitation located on public land.
 
After consideration, this would be a difficult distance to determine for officer and hunter both. Plus, some situations warrant safe shooting within this distance. We figured that reckless endangerment laws were sufficient in addressing the public safety piece. You probably won’t see this one in a future proposal.  

     (f) The hunting activity occurs within published open seasons.
 
I don’t need to explain this one.

     (2) Private landowners or their designees that possess a valid depredation permit issued by the department are exempt from the above requirements while hunting on the permit designated property.  Nothing in this section removes the right of property owners, their immediate family members, their documented employees, or tenants of real property, pursuant to RCW 77.36.030, to trap or kill wildlife that is threatening human health and safety or causing property damage on that property, without the licenses required under RCW 77.32.010 or authorization from the director under RCW 77.12.240.
 
Landowners, tenants, family members and employees were exempted – designees would need to get a free permit.
 
     (3) A violation of this section involving killing, hunting, taking, holding, possessing, or maliciously injuring or harming unclassified wildlife is an infraction punishable under RCW 77.15.160.  A violation of this section involving killing, hunting, taking, holding, possessing, or maliciously injuring or harming big game animals, small game animals, protected wildlife, or endangered wildlife is a crime punishable under RCW 77.15.410, 77.15.430, 77.15.130, or 77.15.120, depending on the animal or wildlife killed, hunted, taken, held, possessed, or maliciously injured or harmed.
 
These are standard penalties already in statute being cited above.  

Hope this helps with your understanding………… OG