Gov Tag Bull. Tod Reichert

[coachcw]

I believe that the gov tag holder should be able to hire a guide and hunt any unit . His tag is state wide so I feel the outtfitter shouldget a pass to . why spend the money earned off this tag to go after the guy . I'm sure a ton off people fly every year to learn the land and look for animals . the issue I'd have would be if they chassed a elk down and got out and shot him . this all kinda seems like a waste of our money really , just ad a fee for the outtfitter to roam say 5k and get on with it .

[plugger]

So they should change the rules for the rich to fill there tags, Really, Really . Wouldnt it be better to hire the guide that has that area to hunt.

[coachcw]

with the money invested I cant see the state spending a ton to go after them just saying . If they are poaching or breaking a fire arm restriction sure but if they are on the wrong side of a road or flying a area i just dont see it . if they are blocking roads so others cant get in i have a problem with it aswell . I know alot of us help guys with there tags , I think your openning a door we may not wanna go into , if I drive my truck and a guy fills my tank full off gas  or buys lunch . then is he paying me to guide ?

[huntnphool]

with the money invested I cant see the state spending a ton to go after them just saying . If they are poaching or breaking a fire arm restriction sure but if they are on the wrong side of a road or flying a area i just dont see it . if they are blocking roads so others cant get in i have a problem with it aswell . I know alot of us help guys with there tags , I think your openning a door we may not wanna go into , if I drive my truck and a guy fills my tank full off gas  or buys lunch . then is he paying me to guide ?

That's not the point coach. The rules are spelled out in the regs before the tags are purchased, by purchasing the tag you are agreeing to abide by the rules. If you don't agree with them then you can lobby to have them changed, until then there is no asterisk next to the aircraft rule exempting those that pay for the auction tags.

 As Plugger said, why not hire the person that is the outfitter in that area if you need a guide? Boundaries are in place to attempt to make it fair, no different than some east coast beverage distributor setting up shop in Oregon and stepping on the toes of the local distributor.

[coachcw]

I agree with not breaking the law Phool , my point I guess is was there a game violation if so why isnt the wdfw charging him with poaching ? seems like they are spending a ton of time and money chassing there tail .  I didn't see where they where hunting from a aircraft . Is it up to all hunters to make sure there guides are on the up and up? I can honistlly say I 've use guides that I wasn't sure of there licences . It seems to me that often these gov tag guys have many outtfitters working for them and i'm sure boundrys are crossed . I believe in fair chase and even odds but these tags are allready tilted so that average joe cant get in on them. so my point is pay the fine  make it approperiate and let it pass , If we want to treat them like ranch hunts and not allow them in the book then fine . I really hope that this isnt just a libberal head hunt to make another mark agaisnt hunters . I know that given the chance most wardens iv'e seen will ticket you in a heart beat , so why hasn't he been charged ? just a differnt view i guess .

[Swatson]

Why are so many people hung up on this "he's rich and getting off and if it were me and you we'd get hammered?"  It was a misdemeanor offense which is punishable up to 5,000 dollars and he got the max!  He was also trespassed from USFS land.  Seems that people have a little added anger towards the guy because he has money.  The guy broke the law, got punished for it to the maximum penalty of 5,000 but some people seem to want more simply because he is a rich dude?  I could go pull a whole boat load of other game law offense cases from the last few years from average joes like most of us(minus the law breaking) that got off a whole lot easier for much worse crimes in my opinion!  I'm not defending this booger eater for his actions just so we are clear I'm just curious to why people are all up in arms over this guy getting caught and getting more of a penalty than most turds that do a lot worse!

[coachcw]

Why are so many people hung up on this "he's rich and getting off and if it were me and you we'd get hammered?"  It was a misdemeanor offense which is punishable up to 5,000 dollars and he got the max!  He was also trespassed from USFS land.  Seems that people have a little added anger towards the guy because he has money.  The guy broke the law, got punished for it to the maximum penalty of 5,000 but some people seem to want more simply because he is a rich dude?  I could go pull a whole boat load of other game law offense cases from the last few years from average joes like most of us(minus the law breaking) that got off a whole lot easier for much worse crimes in my opinion!  I'm not defending this booger eater for his actions just so we are clear I'm just curious to why people are all up in arms over this guy getting caught and getting more of a penalty than most turds that do a lot worse!

[bearpaw]

First let me be clear, I beleive everyone should follow the law regardless of income level.

Class Warfare
Now, I would like to say I think the hatred displayed in this topic is disgusting. Just because somebody has more money than you do does not make them any less of a sportsman. In fact, in my own experience including the thousands of hunters I personally know, I would say that many hunters who are more successful in life are often far more sportsmanlike than many of the local slobs I see in the woods breaking every law they can get away with and poaching for no reason other than to kill.

Scouting From The Air
I believe the law is this way. You can scout all you want from the air. I have thought about doing it, but never have. As long as you don't hunt (carry a gun on the mountain) within a day after flying then your scouting is legal. Unless they flew or had somebody flying the same day they hunted, then no law was broken.

Lieing To Forest Officer
So the guy messed up, he lied to a forest cop about paying the guide. I am willing to bet that almost every member on this forum has cheated the system or lied about something to the government before. Broken the speed limit, broken some hunting or fishing law, lied to the IRS about something on their taxes, etc. The guy got caught, he is paying the maximum fine, and he cannpot recreate in any form on NFS for 2 years. Give me a break that he is not paying a high price for his small mistake. A mistake in judgement that is likely no more than many of you have made at some point in your life. My guess is that the guy has suffered more in embarrasment than most of you can imagine.

Hunting Hard
It has also been my experience that most well-to-do hunters are as willing to work harder on a hunt than many average folks. We took a couple guys from Denmark hunting last fall. One guy is pretty common (income-wise), the other guy is very well to do and owns businesses in several countries, yet they are best friends and hunting partners. Both hunted very hard and both were rewarded with large male cougar. They spent a day in the kitchen after the hunt making me and my guides one of the best meals we have ever had just because they wanted to treat us.

But honestly, it shouldn't matter if a guy hunts hard or not. It should be optional how hard anyone wants to hunt and how much effort they want to put into any hunt. Where is it written that a hunt has to be hard. Hunting should be about going to the woods and enjoying the outdoors any legal way you like and spending whatever amount of money you choose to spend in the process. This mentallity that a hunt has to be hard and that because one guy chooses to spend more than another is just dispicable and not what hunting should be about.

I have tried to make hunts easier on my kids, wife, family members, and clients whenever possible. Unless of course someone prefers to do it the hard way. To be even more honest, as I get older I can see I will be looking for easier forms of hunting as the years go by, just hope I will be able to enjoy a good road hunt or stand hunt when I am 80, some of you guys may have that outlawed by then because it's too frickin easy. What the hell are you going to do at 80 when it is required that you do 200 pushups and hike in 10 miles before you can start hunting. 

And please, don't you dare go 1 mile an hour over the speed limit for the rest of your life. 

I will get off my soapbox now. 

[kirkl]

   well said bearpaw. lots of do gooders here. amazing that out of 2000+ members on here not one of them has never done anything to break the law once in there life. wish i was that good.

[boneaddict]

Your soapbox saved me alot of typing.  Nice post Dale.   

Workstohunt, also a nice perspective.




I've been for and against these tags.  I've changed my mind several times.   The only thing I think I am against now are the big headhunters coming in, like Mossback etc.   I ahve never really liked that sort of thing, and believe somewhere along the line it goes against what I consider fair chase.   That can be debated on another level in another thread on another day.   

[bearpaw]

Your soapbox saved me alot of typing.  Nice post Dale.   

Workstohunt, also a nice perspective.




I've been for and against these tags.  I've changed my mind several times.   The only thing I think I am against now are the big headhunters coming in, like Mossback etc.   I ahve never really liked that sort of thing, and believe somewhere along the line it goes against what I consider fair chase.   That can be debated on another level in another thread on another day.

There obviously needs to be a limit to these high dollar tags.

It seems like wildlife management is mostly about the dollars anymore. Look at the number of multi-season tags. It amazes me that for a state that supposedly cannot allow multi-season hunting for the masses due to limited wildlife, they feel we can have thousands of multi-season tags if you are willing to pay the higher license fees. What's up with that. 

I cannot comment about Mossback, sure I have heard the bitches about him, but how much is truth, how much is he actually quilty of doing? How much is just jealousy, I can't say either way. Until I know for a fact that the guy is breaking laws I am not going to slander him. I'll save this for another topic also. 

[Rainier10]

Your soapbox saved me alot of typing.  Nice post Dale.   

Workstohunt, also a nice perspective.

[huntnphool]

 Good points Dale, he made a mistake and is paying his dues, a lifetime ban is ridiculous IMO.

 

I didn't see where they where hunting from a aircraft . Is it up to all hunters to make sure there guides are on the up and up?

Too a certain extent yes but obviously there is no way Tod would be able to always know if the guide was breaking some of the rules. What makes him look bad is the fact that he lied, it just makes him look like he did know something was not right and attempted to hide the fact.

 I've got no issues with these guys buying these tags and think its a great idea, I'd buy one too if I had the means.

[coachcw]

I hear you phool We may be biding against each other LOL happy 4th gentleman. btw I've never even bent a rule (lol). well said bear paw.

[bearpaw]

I recently cheated the speed limits a little on my way to Mississippi to hog hunt and shoot gar.   

If I had been caught, I would probably owe a few dollars. 

Probably doesn't mean I should never be allowed to drive again....