Giardia

[dblungshot]

I have a few friends whose dogs were diagnosed with Giardia...they've thrown a ton of $ through diagnosis, prescriptions, etc...both have gone through numerous medications...with results only showing 4-8 months later...one friend swears by a over-the-counter pill and has seen night/day results just after a few days.

To make a long story short, I believe my dog has giardia after talking with them and listening to their dogs symptoms.  Mucus poop, squirts, bowel movements 2x as normal & sometimes more.  My dog isn't losing weight (still eating good) and appears to be "normal"; I haven't ran her long distance yet to test her stamina....so it's tough for me to tell if she is degressing and actually sick?

So after listening to their success stories I chose to give my dog the same over-the-counter pill which has no side effects and is a natural healer.  The stools firmed up a bit at first but now it's more of a yo-yo and is soft serve at best and worst - runny slugs...sometimes it seems to work and other times it doesn't seem so.  She's been on this medication for over 2 weeks now...

Is their any other digestional disease/sickness this could be?  She's been squirting on/off for over 4 weeks now...I really want to get this under control before chukar season begins.  She could be worthless if she's taking dumps every 5 ft. instead of finding birds.  I love my dog, just trying to bring light to the situation...

Any words, experience or input would be great. 

[bearpaw]

One of my firends got it once drinking from a stream while elk hunting. Be glad your dog has it and not you. Call your vet, probably all they need is a stool sample, hope he gets well.

[Curly]

That was some good info Rasbo.  Interesting.  I never thought about dogs getting giardia.  You would think more dogs would get it because of what they will put in their systems.

I've had giardia before........it is a bad way to lose weight.

[dblungshot]

One of my firends got it once drinking from a stream while elk hunting. Be glad your dog has it and not you. Call your vet, probably all they need is a stool sample, hope he gets well.

I haven't heard of any dog owner who's dog was diagnosed with giardia that spent less than 1k over stool samples (many times a false negative), failed prescriptions that don't work, and prescriptions that are really hard on the dog.  One friend spent over 2k...I don't want to spend over 100$ if I don't have to, especially when she appears "fine".

Maybe a better question with those more experienced with their dogs who've treated and cured giardia...if my dog truly does have giardia, will she lose weight at an obvious rate? 

[dblungshot]

Thanks bearpaw & curly for your reply.

[Curly]

I don't know where Rasbo's post went.  It was a good article, the link didn't quite work right, but I got there anyway.

Anyhow, that article also pointed out another parasite that makes similar symptoms as giardia.  It is coccidiosis

Both those articles on the beagle website provide info on treatment with over the counter stuff.

Hope you get your dog figured out.  And hopefully some of the vets on this site will read your thread and chime in.

[Curly]

Been doing more reading on the subject.  Found this interesting:

Even with treatment, it is possible that only the cystic form of Giardia has been removed from the feces, while the infective trophozoite form in the dog’s small intestine remains. In other words, fecal tests for Giardia can be negative, but the parasites still can live inside the dog’s gastrointestinal tract, making those dogs a source of potential infection for other animals, and possibly for people. Giardia is rarely deadly in otherwise healthy dogs. Dogs infected with this parasite typically have flu-like symptoms that eventually resolve.

I'm sure my lab had giardia infections at times due to some of the lake, pond, mud puddle, swamp, you name it nasty water he would drink at times.  I don't know how you would prevent it??? The bolded part in the quote above makes me think that in a lot of cases, the dog will simply get better on his own.

[NW-GSP]

My dog had it as a pup, one stool sample some Meds and everything cleared up

[dblungshot]

great read Curly!  Interesting...I've seen no blood in her stools yet...she does strain and doesn't seem to be pleased to be in crapping position for so long without productivity. 

I guess, the next question would be...what symptoms should I look for that should cause concern and require a vet visit...?  I know, most responsible owners would of already had her in the vet (I'm abusive).  Honestly, I'd like to see more signs of sickness before I take her in. (of course if it was chukar season and she wasn't performing I'd take her in ASAP )  I thought I'd post this thread in hopes someone else had experienced something similiar....I also hoped to identify what she may have...any more thoughts/suggestions?

In any regard, thanks for all who've replied.

[Stilly bay]

when in doubt go to the vet. with out getting a vet involved it would be hard to tell if it was giardia or parvo or  by the time you start seeing other symptoms on some internal problems its already getting close to being too late for a quick and cheap fix.

is your dog current on its vaccinations? sometimes getting vaccinated will actually cause these symptoms.

have you switched foods recently? some dogs need to be slowly eased into a new food or plays hell on their digestive track and they experience symptoms like you described.

until you get your dog to the vet give it some canned pumpkin (not pumkin pie mix ) and that should help firm up its stools.

also if you feed your dog only once or twice a day, try breaking up its meals into three or four, that way there is less for intestinal track to deal with all at once. I had a parvo survivor that could not handle more than half a cup of food at a time. any more and he would get the squirts.

but you really should let the vet sort it out.

[Stilly bay]

also on the off chance it is giardia (or anything similar) you should clean your yard and kennels thoroughly or the dog will continue to reinfect itself. scrape it up, hose it down and spray bleach water over everything.

[dblungshot]

Thanks Stilly Bay!  Great advice...my bitch is gonna be 8 in dec...I haven't vaccinated her recently but have switched dog foods shortly before her symptoms started.  She ran off on a warm day for 45 min so I thought she got into some bad water or eight some other animals feces...(the *censored*s didn't show up until roughly 2 weeks after her joy adventure)?  Haven't really thought about the dog food since she's eight this brand and kind before without any of these symptoms...I did however put her directly on it without integrating the food slowly...Another abusive gesture   If this is the case I will take it serious and obviously not repeat myself.

I've heard of the canned pumpkin...I'll give it a try...I'm also assuming I should stop the current feed cold turkey and get back to the last food?  Or should I reduce her current feed with canned pumpkin until feces is firm, then begin to integrate new feed (last stuff she was on) until the old feed is fazed out then slowly reduce the canned pumpkin until her digestinal tract begins to act normal?

first or latter?

[hunting4sanity]

This thread brings up too many bad memories - I've been treated for it three times.  Very quick weight loss tool, but it can be brutal!
Oh, back to your dog, get the vet to test a sample, besides I doubt my old human meds are pooch approved.

[wraithen]

Ok, if your dog isn't losing weight and isn't having trouble or showing any symptoms other than weird poop then I would think a possible food allergy. If you can be VERY strict then feed your dog only plain white rice and boiled chicken (boneless breasts are easiest.) If symptoms clear up it's the food. If she starts dropping weight get her to the vet asap. If she acts weird when walking or any time really when she isn't squatting, go to the vet. Sounds like your dog is just fine. A lot of people freak out and run to the vet for weird poo. Even if it is bloody most times there's not much to do other than wait for the bloody poo to go away or wait for more symptoms. Hope it all goes well, I know I'd freak if my dog had these symptoms but the wife's a tech so I get a bit of a discount.

[Michelle_Nelson]

My dog gets really runny almost water poo if I feed him raw meat.  He also gets soft diarea when he eats chicken.  My husband has given his chicken lunch meat as a treat a few times (2-3 pieces) and that really tears him up. He will go out almost every 2 hours.  If I feed him beef or dry dog food he is fine.

I was feeding my dog Taste of the Wild and he would have a normal stool once (sometimes twice) a day when just eating that.  Recently I took him off of the dry food because he just hated eating it.  I'm now feeding him real food, Beef, Chicken, Turkey, Rice, Green Beans, Peas, Carrots, Squash, etc, etc.  It takes more time preparing the food but he is now supper excited when he knows it's time to eat. 

Certain foods I have noticed (Chicken so far) tend to give him the scoots.  He will go 3 or 4 times a day. 

[MikeWalking]

Got it once myself..one untreated bottle of water in a 4 day hike..took several weeks to hit.  Had an un*******believably painful first episode.   Woke me up out of  dead sleep like getting gut shot.  If it had been 2 steps farther to the can      I would have moved.

The first test didn't find it but since the lakes I had hiked up to were labeled as being known for it my Dr. gave me the (dirt cheap) Rx for it anyway.   That was almost as bad.  Couldn't close the windows for 2 weeks...

[dblungshot]

Thanks wraithen!  I've thought this may be a possibility as she's had a food reaction in the past (hives) but never digestional...I'll try to get back to the feed she's used too during the off season but first try the recommendations of pumpkin, rice, chicken, etc....  I normally switch her to a higher protien during chukar season and give her a more rounded simple diet during the off-season.

Another symptom is gas during the poo process...only when it's a runny one, i can hear her have false alarms (gas) prior, during, and after and she looks at me like "I thought it was coming"...it's kinda funny cause I can understand the feeling.  Look up Dumb and dumber toilet scene and see the results as this is probably most similiar as to what she's experiencing during the running stages.  My dog probably thinks I'm a complete ass by now.  I'm also exaggerating a bit to how bad it is, but I've also had a couple relaxing cocktails. 

Here's a picture of my bitch which most the time I love and sometimes I will give away!     She's the best dog I've had but also isn't perfect.  Couldn't ask for a better dog for my kids and wife.

[dblungshot]

forgive me if this a multi post as I'm having troubles uploading photo.  Heres the bitch! Ass first.

[Curly]

Nice pic!

[Mudman]

I read some of this to my wife and she had a fit!  Shes a vet. tech and deals with this alot.  The stories of thousands of dollars doesnt make any sense to her. She says more to that(Parvo?) then what is told.  Giardia is a simple fecal sample test.  Not expensive.  She thinks food allergy very strong possibility as well as other parasitic infections.  Not staying current on vaccines also could have exposed her to more serious risks.  Unless it is a food allergy which is easy fix take dog to vet. if you want to keep her alive.  Longer she is sick the more $$ it will cost.

[wraithen]

I talked to my wife about it as well. She said counting the 35 dollars they charge for a vet to see a client, it should take 50 bucks to figure out if it's giardia or not. They just run the fecal. If you're on a first name basis with the vet you shouldn't be paying much more than that. (Thats the on-base pricing.) Pumpkin will fix a lot of things sometimes, it's like a miracle drug for some simple stuff! Keep in mind that sometimes dogs are also allergic to the chicken and although it is rare, some have shown to be allergic to the rice somehow.

[dblungshot]

I'm gonna call the vet monday and take a *censored* bag in and see how much they'll charge for a test.  What's the specific test called?  Just for giardia or for all parasites?  I don't think it's necessary to take my dog in, get charged the extra $ for them to tell me she looks fine (unless someone can convince me otherwise).  Her gums look fine but her teeth may need a brush.  She also has a large vulva which I've heard too many times, but most vets don't comment on that.  It's people passing by asking if she's a male dog because of her balls.  In the chukar motel one hunting buddy calls her the super chonch along with other names which she wags her tail about.

By the way:
This am the stools looked perfect...saw a piece of apple one of my boys threw on the ground from dinner last night.

[Shannon]

Sorry to hear Reign is still sick.
For the people who couldn't understand the cost in treating the dog, the fecal test is the cheap part. I'm the unfortunate person that has $2,300 tied up in getting my pup rid of Giardia. He has had many standard fecal test, one expensive test that supposedly test for everything that cost me two hundred something, and more drugs than you can imagine. He's ate special dog food that cost $4 a pound and he eats a bunch. The list goes on and on. Some of the drugs are human grade and cost $100+ for a two week dose. Some of the drugs worked while he was on them but the symptoms came right back when the drugs were gone. The food changes did nothing. The fecal test don't really mean anything because sometimes they are positive and sometimes they are not. You can test the dog 5 times in one day and get 3 that show Giardia and two that don't. Out of all the test, he has only tested positive for Giardia and that is only a few times out of a bunch of test. The last vet wanted to operate on him to remove an inch of intestine to confirm its only Giardia he has. I couldn't see doing that on a perfectly healthy dog that his only symptom is chronic diarhea. Long story short, I found a human grade supplement called Para-Gard that has cured him from the second day he has been on it. I'm not sure if he's cured or it just masks the diarhea but we will find out when the supplement runs out. If it doesn't he will take the supplement for good. Not fun thats for sure. It started when he was 6 month's old and he's 14 months now.
Good luck with reign. Let me know how it goes.

[wraithen]

Id be curious to find out what that supplement does in dogs. I'm guessing there is something physical that is wrong with the dog in question here. I can't imagine giardia being so difficult to treat. That would be really hard for me. While I can't imagine your pain with the dog food, I can for the drugs. Working dogs out eat my 150 lb mastiff, but my vet bills add up pretty quickly, especially if it's human grade and even more so for things that are done by weight.

[Shannon]

The dog has had x-rays of his stomach and sent off to a radiologist. He gave him an all is OK. If you research Giardia in dogs he's pretty consistant with a lot of dogs. It's extremely hard to get rid of for good in a lot of dogs. A lot of people think they just get over it by themselves but it can take up to a year. I don't know if that's whats happening with my dog or if the supplement is working. I've never had a dog get it before and all of my dogs have ate and drank some pretty nasty stuff. The one thing this pup did, that probably contributed to his problems, is he ate coyote crap like it was dessert. He ate crap in Saskatchewan, Montana, Oregon, and Idaho last year so who knows what strain of God knows what he picked up. He out grew that stage.
Good luck to everyone that is dealing with this. It's a royal pain in the ass.

[dblungshot]

Thanks Shannon.
I don't think it's as bad as charlie's case...reign is actually getting fatter.  The stools are on/off.  I'm gonna play around a bit with the different suggestions and see what pans out. 

[Mudman]

Giardia can be hard to get rid of because the animals keep reinfecting itself.  Shannons dog sounds like a parvo dog?  Maybe a different vet. might be a good idea?

[Raghorn]

I had Giardia once from drinking in a mountain stream. I (and my doctor) thought I had a flu for more than a month. Finally got some medicine that worked. Had one night of misery with getting up and out of the tent every 45 to 60 minutes to run out in the wet snow and rain to do the business. My brother got up before daybreak to go find an elk but I just lay in bed. Finally just after daylight I decided that I could be sick in the woods as well as in the tent so I dragged out. About an hour later I had my bull down and tag filled. A fine and pleasant misery!