bow press and bare shaft tuning help

[earlmarne]

i went n shot an unfletched shaft today at around 15 yards and im consistently gettin the arrow twisted with the nock left and  hitting to the right of my aim point.im hoping theres someone with a bow press and some knowledge that can help me out here in spokane

[Button Nubbs]

What do you need a press for? Did you try adjusting the rest?

[earlmarne]

well i dont know much about all of this.but i paper tuned n got the rest shooting without any rips but now from what i read over on archerytalk i want to put twists in my yolk or buss cables to straighten it out for bareshaft tuning.as said though idk much except for what i read this is only my second month with a bow in my hand n i really want to get proficient enough to hit the woods soon.pretty positive i have my centershot squared away but then again idk wtf im doin here

[BULLBLASTER]

can you post some info about your set up? DL, DW, arrow spine and length and tip weight?
this will help to make sure that you are shooting the right spine for the set up. you are correct in that adding twists to the yoke will move the bare shaft toward the fletched if you add twists to the side where the fletched are shooting. but this will not help if you are shooting the incorrect spine.
i am in spokane, but dont have a press. i am heading to evergreen archery in the morning if you want to head out i can try and help out some. i will be broadhead tuning there.

[Button Nubbs]

hmmm i always thought you could bare shaft tune by adjusting the rest, like broadhead tuning only more precise. ive done it my way and any broadhead i screw on will hit same point of impact as my field tips. ill have to look more into that.

[earlmarne]

im shooting a crx 32 at 30 inch draw.i think im at 72 lbs my arrows are ics hunter 340 spine,they are cut at 30 n a quarter or 30 i cant remember n thats with 100 grain field point.ive went n broke all but 2 of my arrows so i think i will be best to wait till friday when i get paid n get back out to white tail plus n get some more arrows.i think i will be downloading the application for evergreen archery also so i can start getting out there.id love to take you up on your offer another time if possible.i have many questions about my form and anchor points n such.is this spine within reason for my specs?i think my arrows are weighing in at 420.i would really like to pack some more on em but dont want to shell out the cash for fmjs

[Button Nubbs]

with that draw length arrow length and poundage you may be better off with 300. a 30" draw + 72lbs + 30"arrow = wet noondle

[earlmarne]

think so?do they make the ics hunter in a 300 spine ?that would give me some room to stack some weight on the tip too n get better foc and total weight.

[Button Nubbs]

i believe they do but you may want to buy one of the spine selection programs out there before you go out buying a bunch of different shafts. it sounds like you would be better off with .300's or cutting a bit off of your arrows to stiffen em up a little but  without the program infront of me.

[BULLBLASTER]

i would be more than happy to meet you at the range and help you out all thiat i can. just PM me when you are ready.
i too would look at trying some .300 spine arrows, they will probably shoot better and weigh a bit more. i think greg mighht have some in stock at Whitetail Plus (good choice on shop as well!  ) i get pretty busy on the weekends this month but could meet you in the week. i am actually planning to be at WT plus some next saturday also.

[earlmarne]

alright,thanks man ill def. take you up on that soon.

[jechicdr]

You can download for free from Pinwheel Software the OnTarget program.  You can get figure out perfect length, spine, and weight of the tip you should put on there to get the FOC percentage you want.  If that is all you need, then you don't have to buy the program.  It's inexpensive enough though, that you might buy it for other features, or in case you buy another bow, or change arrows, or sights (can also print sight tapes).  I suspect you would be better off with a 300 spine arrow and a heavier tip (at least 125 if not 150 grain).

[earlmarne]

thats cool as hell.i had ballistic software for my pellet rifles,never thought about it for my bows.im downloading it right now.i like the idea of bn able to stack more weight up front.im in the process of trying to trade for a brand new strothers sx 1 as we speak n i may just be swithing everything over anyhow.i think this bow is way too small for me

[RadSav]

well i dont know much about all of this.but i paper tuned n got the rest shooting without any rips but now from what i read over on archerytalk i want to put twists in my yolk or buss cables to straighten it out for bareshaft tuning.as said though idk much except for what i read this is only my second month with a bow in my hand n i really want to get proficient enough to hit the woods soon.pretty positive i have my centershot squared away but then again idk wtf im doin here

What brought you to the conclusion you needed to play with your yoke or buss cables after shooting perfect holes through paper? 

Archerytalk is a dangerous place for the novice.  I will never ever recommend it to even veteran archers.

[earlmarne]

well i went n was shootin at 19 yards n tore one of my fletchings off from grouping so i had a lightbulb pop up n i tore the rest off n shot it baRE shaft at about 10 yards n got my arrow was comin in sideways.seems from what i read i needed to do some tunin,but now it would seem i need to get the correct spine n try again.idk im anal as hell about my equipment n have found out the hard way many times i should have had a pro mess with my stuff but eventually i know my equipment as i know myself  n with a tool tasked with such an important role i would like to know it as best i can.i just need some guidance so as to lessen the learning curve

[BULLBLASTER]

you can always screw a broadhead on and shoot it at 20 yards and see how it does.

[earlmarne]

havnt decided on a broadhead yet.i think im going to pick up some shuttle ts when i go up there this weekend.

[earlmarne]

plus im gettin like 3 n 4 inch groups with field points at 19 n that just dont feel acceptable to me.im sure i am one of the variables makin that happen but i want to take out all others cuz at this point im not sure i know what the hell im doing n dont feel comfortable hittin the woods

[RadSav]

Where was the impact of that bare shaft in comparison to the fletched shaft?

[earlmarne]

well my first shot was directly right about 4 inches with the nock way left after a few shots it stayed right but only around 3 inches still with knock left.the bow only rests in my lifeline of my hand with no fingers touching so i see no way i could be torquein the bow atall.

[RadSav]

well my first shot was directly right about 4 inches with the nock way left after a few shots it stayed right but only around 3 inches still with knock left.the bow only rests in my lifeline of my hand with no fingers touching so i see no way i could be torquein the bow atall.

So, directly right has nothing to do with yoke or control cable tuning.  Possibly nothing to do with arrow rest tuning either if you are shooting through paper well.  Probably nothing wrong beyond weak arrow spine.  Try a 300 spine or drop 10# off of the poundage and see if there is any improvement.

But, at 19 yards 3" is really a very minute problem when bare shaft tuning.  Myself, if it paper tunes and shoots broadheads well I'd forget about it.  You're set up is caught in that inbetween spine area.  So you may not find a better solution with spine unless you play with poundage. 

You do want at least 125 grain points.  Especially if you are not shooting Blazers!  That will weaken spine a few pounds, but that's about it.  Far more important to have FOC close to 10% than to have spine 2 or 3 pounds one way or the other.  1/2" shorter arrow length and you get that 2 pounds back.

[earlmarne]

understood.thank you.ill have to pick up some broadheads n shafts this weekend n give her a go

[jechicdr]

Since you are just starting out, I would not beat yourself up about your field point groups.  They will tighten up as you practice and your form and muscle memory improves.  Though you may not have the perfect arrows for your bow, most of your variation in shot groups right now is probably more related to your form.  This should not prevent you from choosing the right arrow and point combination now, before you get to the fine tuning, otherwise it will be a pain later (and after you bought 1-2 dozen of the wrong arrows).  Improving your form will tighten your groups to a point, then tuning may improve that further.  If your form is not perfect, then even with a perfectly tuned bow, your shot group will be large.  The process of tuning your bow and improving your form can all be done at the same time, but don't think that shot variation is all due to improper tuning.  When you move on to broadheads, then your groups will expand and the broadheads will likely shoot right or left, possibly even higher or lower than your field tips.  Tuning the broadheads is actually considered "fine" tuning.  I would hold off on moving to broadheads until your bow is "gross" tuned and you are consistently shooting field tips.  That likely means that your form is not too bad.

[earlmarne]

understood.thanks for the advice.

[snarkybull]

one of the first mistakes i and many other archers made when taking up this costly and frustrating obsession is thinking that maximum drawing weight would be really cool or more deadly or just more manly.

accuracy is deadly, and clean kills are really damn cool.

your form will likely improve with less poundage.  and your spine will be more appropriate with your current arrows.  try 65# and see if your bare shaft group doesn't get a darn lot closer.   and don't worry when your bare shaft is sticking out of the target crooked - only the impact location matters.  arrows will always wobble badly without vanes.